 
ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | With caps? Will they introduce capage with symmetrical?
Like their evdo service? | |
|
 | 
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
1 edit | Re: With caps? said by ninjatutle  :Will they introduce capage with symmetrical? Like their evdo service? Symmetrical services are generally "business class" services. Chances are, the fees would be high enough that they'd not need to worry about capping. Besides, Verizon hasn't been terribly big on capping any of their existing or prior (terrestrial) services.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. | |
|
| | 
53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: With caps? there already is symmetrical verizon fios 5/5, its business grade and you can get a static ip. its like $200 some odd per month. no, not 50/50 but its based on bpon | |
|
| | |
nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: With caps? said by 53059959 :there already is symmetrical verizon fios 5/5, its business grade and you can get a static ip. its like $200 some odd per month. no, not 50/50 but its based on bpon Which is in the same price range as symmetrical DSL, but 5 times the speed.
Of course, there are no symmetrical cable offerings, at least around here. Best you can get, even with a business tier is a net block and higher download speeds.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. | |
|
| Squidii
join:2004-06-30
Little Rock, AR
| said by ninjatutle :Will they introduce capage with symmetrical? Like their evdo service? Don't feed the trolls. | |
|
| |
ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Re: With caps? Don't feed the squids. | |
|
| | | |
| 
GlennAllen
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA | "Verizon Wireless" != "Verizon" | |
|
| | 
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs: | Re: With caps? VZW is a JV between VZ and Vodaphone plc (while VZ *has* offered to buy out Vodaphone, the Brit telecom has declined to sell). For that reason, VZ vs. VZW is apples vs. oranges. | |
|
| | |
GlennAllen
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA | Re: With caps? Thanks... I'm glad you agree with me. | |
|
| mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA |
Yes, but where is the Question and Answer session that BBR members are REALLY interested in?
You know, the one that drills them on why they gave their CEO 20 Million instead of a $90 per year raise to their employees. | |
|
| |
ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: With caps? I think the guy has paid his dues. It takes money to retain talent.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Seidenberg
Seidenberg began his career in telecommunications as a lineman's assistant straight from high school, and is one of the few Fortune 500 CEOs to have worked his way from the very bottom to the very top. He served a tour of duty in the Vietnam War as a tail gunner. He studied part-time and is a graduate of Lehman College of the City University of New York (1972), earning a B.A. in mathematics, and received his MBA in Marketing from Pace University (1981). | |
|
| | | mglunt
join:2001-09-10
Fredericksburg, VA | Re: With caps?
I was being sarcastic. | |
|
| | | 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | WOW, a CEO that started out as an assistant lineman.
Only in America...
--
FCC, PLEASE KILL THE MERGER BEFORE THE MERGER KILLS SATRAD! | |
|
| | | | srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY | Re: With caps? Splicer's helper, actually. | |
|
| | 
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Lets see.. 20 million dividided by the number of vz employees would be much less than your 90 dollar raise.
As I understand it your raises are negotiated by the Union. Perhaps you should complain to them on their poor negotiation tactics.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
|
| | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: With caps? Or stop paying $X,XXX in dues and keep it for yourself. | |
|
| | | | 
wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | Re: With caps? I wouldn't worry about the dues. Union wages are far better than non-union. | |
|
inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | verizon just hears what they want to hear. "Based on feedback they get from their customers"
bullshit. The majority of the customers are power users and i'm sure the feedback they provide is wanting more symettrical. Verizon has selective hearing. | |
|
| soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
| Re: verizon just hears what they want to hear. Of course you know that since you have access to all of their customer records and comments. This is just more nerd talk/bashing because you can't see why people would use the internet differently than you do.
Most people don't care about symetrical speeds regardless of who their provider is. You think the average soccer mom or dad makes their decision based on that? If they did more people would leave their current provider for FIOS because the upload is faster than what you can get for most other providers.
Some of you are to "geeked" out and are out of touch with the mainstream. My girlfriend noticed the difference in the upload speed that we from DSL and was excited about it because like MOST people, she's no techo-nerd. Most of the time we're surfing or downloading other things while uploading. This isn't as big of an issue as BBR or the users here make it out to be. | |
|
| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | said by inteller :The majority of the customers are power users and i'm sure the feedback they provide is wanting more symettrical. That would be the majority of customers here on BBR, which is a small minority in the grand scheme of Verizon's (and other ISP's) customer portfolio. Why can't BBR readers ever seem to grasp this relatively simple concept? | |
|
| | 
cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Newtown, PA
| Re: verizon just hears what they want to hear. yep. I was shocked to find several friends that got Fios and they had no idea the bandwidth they could have. They just liked the bundle of Phone, TV and Internet. 
Meanwhile, I'm pressing to get my 15/2 upped to 30/5...for same rate.
I need bandwidth (foaming at mouth)!!! Gimmeee!!  | |
|
| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| It's a small minority in any scheme of things. Infinitesimal. Puny. Without weight. A mere dust speck on the plains of consumer broadband.
All "active users" here (and that's rrrreeeeaaaaaalllllyyyy stretching it) wouldn't amount to one small ISP's worth of customers.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|
| shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA
| with FIOS offer at least 1mb up (i think) which is the most charter offers on their best service I would be fine with that! I thought their cheapest option was 5mb/2mb. or 10mb/2mb. I work from home at times, upload videos/pics for family events, expiriment with other techs, run my security system and phone over IP, and would consider myself a power user. | |
|
expert007
join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY
| Satire OF COURSE Czwartacki later stated (off the record) that the real reason they hadn't made a firm decision on symmetrical FiOS was due to the fact that no one within their corporate headquarters understood an effective pricing model. "Its quite frustrating" Czwartacki admitted, adding "We haven't been able to find anyone within our ranks that fully comprehends the difference between $0.20 and .20 cents. We have a team of consultants working on it now, and we should very soon be able to test various pricing models. After that, we can have those same consultants determine the true defintion of 'unlimited". | |
|
ShadezeRO
join:2006-04-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL | 2 classes I would assume there would be a residential Symmetrical service, and a Business class one. Different nodes, uptime guarantee's all that. | |
|
| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: 2 classes said by ShadezeRO :Different nodes, uptime guarantee's all that. I wouldn't count on uptime guarantees...at least very good ones. That would subtract from Verizon's other premium, high-margin DS-x and OC-x services. | |
|
| | johnsp
join:2001-02-07
Syosset, NY
| Re: 2 classes said by openbox9 :said by ShadezeRO :Different nodes, uptime guarantee's all that. I wouldn't count on uptime guarantees...at least very good ones. That would subtract from Verizon's other premium, high-margin DS-x and OC-x services. Very true! VZ would be in the red within days of such an offer. Why would any business pay thousands a month for oc-X service when MULTIPLE Fios lines could provide similar bandwidth at a fraction of the cost. | |
|
| | | srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY | Re: 2 classes Because most of those hi-cap circuits are used for point to point connectivity between 2 locations and have nothing to do with the internet. They are closed networks. Fios does not fit this description and is of no used in that capacity. | |
|
JWilly
join:2000-06-02
48519-1440 | Whatever quibbles there might be about the specific content: High praise to Verizon for putting out this kind of communication. | |
|
| 
brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Whatever quibbles there might be about the specific content: Thats how they steal peoples ideas lol | |
|
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
 ·Dreamhost
| I wish higher upstream would be offered A friend of mine's friend pays $2000/month for a symmetrical 20mbit/sec line burstable to 45 with Cox business fiber.
I've got another friend who has a full 1.5mbit/sec T1 line via xo.net, which I believe he pays around $400/month for. I've read all these claims of how fast cable and DSL can go, yet as far as I know, not a single North American ISP offering cable or DSL gives users a shot at seeing what their line can do, especially in the upstream direction! Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge the only cable provider that'll give consumers a taste of upstream potential is cablevision, with choices of either 2 or 5mbps speeds. Everyone else? Well you're lucky if providers in non-FIOS areas give you a top speed of 1mbps. In my case for example I have the fastest consumer internet I can get at 10mbps/1mbps. Why is it then, that ifI want to get 2mbps upstream, which cable can do BTW, I have to pay 5 times the price for double the speed upstream, as I can only get it on a business package?
Why is it that every single provider of cable/dsl services is afraid to even offer consumers greater upload? True not everyone will use it, but there are those that want it, and they shouldn't be excluded. Tiers of internet access should be offered from the lite user to the power user that wants upload abilities. I mean the internet is a computer network after all, and sending data should be no different than receiving it! Are the internet peering points metered lines, hence the reason every residential ISP won't even consider giving more upstream options? It's like they're even afraid to offer symmetrical speeds like 1.5/1.5 which cable could do! Why is this? What exactly is the difference between the internet I receive and the internet my friends that pay through the roof for their 1.5 and 20 meg lines get? | |
|
| 
Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
2 edits | The answer to your question... said by kd6cae :Why is this? What exactly is the difference between the internet I receive and the internet my friends that pay through the roof for their 1.5 and 20 meg lines get? The internet you get has: No SLA (ie no guaranteed uptime), may have a transfer limit (ie cap), has a lower priority of packets (versus a business line), is much more oversold, etc.
As for upstream - it's the way cable and DSL are designed:
For DSL, the best obtainable upstream speed is commonly around 1mbit or less (up to 1.5 max). This is because the "noise" of the tons of circuits going in/out of the CO interfere with the signal - now on your end you don't have 50,000 pairs running to your house so it's a moot point.
And for cable, each node commonly has 38mbit down but only about 8mbps up - shared between all users. DOCSIS 2.0 allows up to 30mbps upstream, however I am unaware of any cable providers that actually configure their systems for that.
WHAT IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO:
Downstream bandwidth is used only by user request. Most people have a practical limit to how much they can download (ie hard drive space). Meanwhile upstream bandwidth has no such limits - as is the case with P2P applications some will eat your full upstream 24/7/365 if you let them. Now imagine your cable company decides to completely uncap the lines - and two of your neighbors decide to host their favorite pr0n on bittorrent - bam your 8mbit of communal upload is saturated and everyone's experience is reminiscant of the dialup days. Sure they could advertise the service as 40/10 - but I think you'd be a little upset with their "oversell" ratio.
EDIT - Your tag line says it all: "P2P shouldn't be a crime" --- Which I agree with as long as you're not on my node
| |
|
| |
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: The answer to your question... Also, there *is* a post-GPON plan (yes, at Verizon). In addition to the BPON-to-GPON upgrade (which *will* happen VZ-wide) there are, at minimum, two more upgrades in later stages: 10GPON (factor 10 GPON) and WDM PON (VZ has also left open a possible direct migration from GPON to WDM PON, skipping 10GPON altogether). The real issue that is being discovered with the Internet, however (and it's something that VZ as a company can do little to nothing about, as it can only control part of the issue) is *out-of-network bottlenecking* (due to bandwidth constraints, QoS constraints, or a combination of the two). This is something that *I* have run into since I first got Comcast HSI, and by and large, this sort of bottleneck would *not* go away simply by switching to FIOS because the bottleneck is outside the control of either Comcast, VZ, or their respective bandwidth providers. Until this can be addressed, even GPON is adequate for non-business bandwidth needs. | |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| it will happen I think there will be cheap (under $300) near-symmetrical on FIOS one day. GPON is alot more symmetrical (2.4/1.2gbs) than previous last mile technologies (BPON 600/150mbs, DOCSIS 40/10, ADSL 8/1,VDSL 50/4)). I have a feeling VZ will want to use increased speeds, than sit on them. | |
|
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| accelerate deployment I'd sacrifice not getting symmetrical fiber for 1 year if that meant another 3 million homes and businesses **ON TOP OF CURRENT DEPLOYMENT OF 3 MILLION PER YEAR** could get off the cable pig carnival ride and make a choice subscribing to FIOS. When Verizon has more market share it will become much easier to offer things like symmetrical because they'll be making much more money per subscriber.
Let's face it, once you get above 15megabits, what really is out there that you can't wait a few extra seconds for anyway?
I'm also not averse to an extra 1.5 million passed with an uptick in the upload, say 10 or 15megabits versus 5.
All the while, forcing cablecos to chomp at the bit to upgrade head-end/last mile to docsis 3.0 | |
|
|
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: accelerate deployment A lot of customers like the month-to-month (no contract) option of cable-based HSI, even where FIOS is available; how else is it that cable isn't losing more HSI customers than it is in areas where FIOS is available today? Given that FIOS has more bandwidth (in both directions) than Comcast HSI for the same price, I would expect the HSI churn rate to have *exploded* in areas where CHSI and FIOS are competing heads-up (such as Bowie, Maryland); however, from postings in both forums, that by and large is not happening. Annual and longer than annual contracts go over with a large number of people like lead balloons (witness the uptake for Comcast's own triple play); I see Comcast (in fact, all cable companies) to continue to allow month-to-month HSI as well as cable TV due to its attractiveness to the customer base. | |
|
| | tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Re: accelerate deployment The best speed outside cablevision land is 16/5 (but probably 16/2) megabits which is really 12/3.8 or 12/1.8 in reality docsis mode. FIOS is 5/2 to 50/5 with very little slowdowns on the downstream... upstream has some work to do to get the caps closer to its label (go figure, huh?) But still FTTP is the more rock solid node technology. Why someone wouldn't want that month to month over cable HSI is beyond me..
Verizon is also known for their take 2+ services or nothing if you just want FTTP HSI access and that's it.. they'll put restrictions like forced billing to a credit card (in the past anyway).. most smart people would get 20/5 for $50 a month and Voip from a 3rd party provider.. Vonage or Sunrocket sounds good, then keep a cell phone for 911 as a backup.
FTTP can go head to head with all docsis deployments. FTTP clearly beats docsis 2.0,especially on the upstream, while it is unclear that G-PON will beat docsis 3.0 because the technologies do not compete head to head in ANY market currently, and providers aren't that eager to raise caps for these LOW prices (around $50 a month) just yet even if they *COULD* through the technology upgrades..despite Verizon's claim of GPON test markets, and cablecos' PRE-CERT & BETA docsis 3.0 gear. Expect delays of real deployment to stretch well into 2008 at the earliest.. but on the good news side, gigabit routers (with the coveted gigabit wan ports) are FINALLY making their way to consumer's hands!! YAY! | |
|
| | |
PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: accelerate deployment Two words: annual contract.
Cable, to its credit, has seldom been big on annual or longer contracts (the only exceptions have been their bundles): instead, they are month-to-month. This is unlike satellite-TV (either small-dish or large-dish) or their broadband (and most dial-up) ISP competitors. The very fact that you can kick cable to the curb with little waiting (and no penalty) is itself apparently *very* relaxing. Contrast this to FIOS (signing up for even *one* of their services requires an annual contract, and you can't have just phone on FIOS for now, so VZ can sign up *existing* phone-only customers and move folks off copper that way). Sometimes a great price, backed up with great service and a better product than the competitors *isn't* enough, if to get it you have to take something you don't want. And so far a lot of people don't want the commitment of that annual contract. | |
|
abricko
join:2001-12-04
Lakewood, CA | goodbye TW Scheduled my FIOS install today, as soon as it's installed I'm calling TW and saying goodbye to them and their no contracts! I don't know how they will compete! | |
|
joebarnhart
join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA
| Verizon will play catch up Verizon should offer symmetric service. Others already are offering it, like Paxio in the western US. You can get 10M/10M for DSL and cable prices if you live in an area served by their FTTH. I have to say, the symmetric service really rocks. My VPN connection is great (but it will be even better when they finally upgrade the service where I work).
It's the real deal...
 | |
|
|
|
|
Will Verizon Offer Symmetrical FiOS?
