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Vonage: We Have No Workaround
And we're not sure one is even possible...
Contrary to earlier statements to the press and investors, Vonage has confirmed that they have no workaround in order to stay in business. In fact, they aren't sure such a plan is even "feasible" given the expansiveness of Verizon's patents (or perhaps we should say the expansiveness of the judge's interpretation of those patents). As it stands, Vonage is simply hoping the appeals process works for them.
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

haha

Goodbye Vonage. Now I get to taunt my friend about him saying they are the best.
priller
join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA

1 edit

priller

Member

Vonage is just the first!!!

Be careful what you wish for!

Vonage isn't doing something other VoIP providers aren't. Vonage was just the first target. If the judgment against them holds, all others will be shutdown as well. This is only a test case.

NowVOIP
In the beginning there was POTS
join:2006-03-05
Round Lake, IL

NowVOIP

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them.
priller
join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA

1 edit

1 recommendation

priller

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

That could very well be.

However, one key point of Vonage's defense was that they use Commercial Off-the-shelf or OpenSource software to operate the network. If true, that would strongly imply that many others are exposed to the same patent infringement.

If the above is true ... I've often wondered if VZ was going after the right people. Shouldn't they be going after the developers that wrote the software that contains the patents instead of the network operator that is using it?
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

said by priller:

That could very well be.

However, one key point of Vonage's defense was that they use Commercial Off-the-shelf or OpenSource software to operate the network. If true, that would strongly imply that many others are exposed to the same patent infringement.

If the above is true ... I've often wondered if VZ was going after the right people. Shouldn't they be going after the developers that wrote the software that contains the patents instead of the network operator that is using it?
With verizon doing this. Not only will they kill off some voip providers , but they will also kill off some OSS devs and companies using OSS.

This has a ripple affect , just like sco did. Now people will hawk their wares saying see OSS is bad for business you open yourself up for lawsuits in the future.

Admitting they used OSS is bad, for OSS , but I am sure MS and other closed vendors are licking their chops at this as a side effect.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium Member
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

1 recommendation

nixen

Premium Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

said by BosstonesOwn:

This has a ripple affect , just like sco did. Now people will hawk their wares saying see OSS is bad for business you open yourself up for lawsuits in the future.
Really? And how've things been working out for SCO, lately?
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

sco is dead , but the ripple it caused in the linux / unix world was heard.

Just like sco verizon may have a bad case but they have the money to back it up.

This if it goes mainstream will be a scare tactic to some business that was looking to migrate.
terogers
join:2003-12-19
Glenolden, PA

terogers

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

Well, technically speaking SCO had Bill Gates' money to back them up, for a while. Verizon isn't Gates, but SCO is no Verizon without him.

dcurrey
Premium Member
join:2004-06-29
Mason, OH

dcurrey to priller

Premium Member

to priller
If Vonage is using off the shelf hardware and Open source shouldn't Verizion be going after them not Vonage.

Would that not be the equivalent of Company Y saying they have the patents on Gas Caps used in GM trucks then suing UPS for violating the patent. When in fact GM was a fault. (note: I don't know if UPS uses GM trucks or not just an example.)

sitrix
join:2002-04-15
Tacoma, WA

sitrix

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

Verizon will, they just needed a win against a known company to reinforce their case...
TheBigCheese
join:2002-08-05
Philadelphia, PA

TheBigCheese to dcurrey

Member

to dcurrey
said by dcurrey:

If Vonage is using off the shelf hardware and Open source shouldn't Verizion be going after them not Vonage.

Would that not be the equivalent of Company Y saying they have the patents on Gas Caps used in GM trucks then suing UPS for violating the patent. When in fact GM was a fault. (note: I don't know if UPS uses GM trucks or not just an example.)
This is exactly what happens in many patent infringement cases. The law allows the patent holder to go after anyone using the patented idea even users. They will usually sue the users with the deepest pockets.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

1 edit

67845017 (banned)

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

Yup. Basic patent law statute. The patent holder has the right to exclude others from making, using, selling or importing the patented item.

Typically, the user or buyer has an IP indemnification clause in the buying agreement when it purchases the parts. So, it's usually not terribly expensive for the user to take care of the matter. But, it's enough of an inconvenience to the buyer as to tick them off regarding the seller. So, the seller risks losing the customer's business as to the infringed part as well as any other things it buys from the seller.

Loker
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND

Loker to NowVOIP

Premium Member

to NowVOIP
said by NowVOIP:

DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them.
Verizon's patents are really quite broad....thats why I am still confident this is going to get tossed on appeal...

If it does not though it could mean hell for a lot of VoIP outfits because of the broadness of the patents...
nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Winchester, MA

nozzer

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

Not only are they broad, they seem to fail the "obviousness" test, making a mockery of the whole idea of "process patents".
I mean the idea that someone could patent something as obvious as using a server to translate IP addresses to phone numbers to route calls, as recently as 2000 seems ridiculous to me. There must be prior art there somewhere.

Thank god I have an overseas (where this kind of process patent ISN'T recognized) VOIP provider as backup
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to Loker

Member

to Loker
said by Loker:

said by NowVOIP:

DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them.
Verizon's patents are really quite broad....thats why I am still confident this is going to get tossed on appeal...

If it does not though it could mean hell for a lot of VoIP outfits because of the broadness of the patents...
The thing is, a lot of these patent were filed 10 or so years ago. I can't recall the VOIP landscape back then. I know there were a few companies like Net2Phone that were messing around in that space several years ago, but was it prior to VZ's filings?

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium Member
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

nixen

Premium Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

said by 67845017:
said by Loker:
said by NowVOIP:

DT, i would hate to disagree, but you are wrong. This lawsuit, has bearing on only a select few VOIP companies that actually using the "patented" technology. There are several including Cable that do not use the technology and as such VZ would be powerless to stop them.
Verizon's patents are really quite broad....thats why I am still confident this is going to get tossed on appeal...

If it does not though it could mean hell for a lot of VoIP outfits because of the broadness of the patents...
The thing is, a lot of these patent were filed 10 or so years ago. I can't recall the VOIP landscape back then. I know there were a few companies like Net2Phone that were messing around in that space several years ago, but was it prior to VZ's filings?
You're assuming that Verizon didn't buy the requisite patents so that they could put the screws to the rest of the industry.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora to 67845017

Premium Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

The thing is, a lot of these patent were filed 10 or so years ago. I can't recall the VOIP landscape back then. I know there were a few companies like Net2Phone that were messing around in that space several years ago, but was it prior to VZ's filings?
According to the Net2Phone about page, they've been in business doing VOIP since 1996.

»www.net2phone.com/about/
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

Unfortunately, my work firewall blocks access to that site. If I recall though, wasn't the early N2P more of a PC to PC calling system?
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

said by 67845017:

Unfortunately, my work firewall blocks access to that site. If I recall though, wasn't the early N2P more of a PC to PC calling system?
It was PC to phone network. I used it early on when it was free to make some long distance calls to friends with POTS. Quality wasn't great, and there was too long a lag. However, it was VOIP without any doubt.
AJICQ499087
join:2001-12-01
Louisville, KY

AJICQ499087 to Loker

Member

to Loker
I doubt Congress will allow the courts to let Verizon's patent tricks kill off every VoIP company.

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

said by AJICQ499087:

I doubt Congress will allow the courts to let Verizon's patent tricks kill off every VoIP company.
Want to make a bet. Telco's lobby
AJICQ499087
join:2001-12-01
Louisville, KY

AJICQ499087

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

said by hayabusa3303:
said by AJICQ499087:

I doubt Congress will allow the courts to let Verizon's patent tricks kill off every VoIP company.
Want to make a bet. Telco's lobby
You mean you think Verizon will be the only company allowed to provide VoIP? That would mean no other telephone, cable or any other company could provide VoIP. It would be a court ordered monopoly given to Verizon. There is no way Congress would let that happen.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

Re: Vonage is just the first!!!

Congress makes the patent laws. The intent explicitly is to grant a monopoly.

On the other hand, ocassionally compulsory licenses will be required.
nanoflower
join:2002-07-14
30876

nanoflower to NowVOIP

Member

to NowVOIP
They definitely won't have much luck against the cable companies. The major providers are using solutions that are based on Texas Instruments or Broadcom solutions so they have huge patent portfolios that they could use against Verizon. At worst they come to an accomodation that the cross licenses the patents that Verizon claims to have. At best the Verizon patents get revoked.
SunnyFL8
Premium Member
join:2001-02-08

SunnyFL8 to priller

Premium Member

to priller
Packet8 Isn't going anywhere I wouldn't worry. Other than that who else is going down? The cable industry? I don't think so.

Vonage asked for it when they used technologies that were not there own and they are paying the price. There never was a work around they made that statement but it never was.

The only thing they can do is start from scratch and spend the money on making VOIP the legal way through research and money well spent. Not using any ones protected technologies.

Game over for now Vonage.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH to priller

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to priller
Wow, looks like it's "Your mom's box" for Vonage.

I liked the service when I first got it. Had some problems towards the end. Overall, I thought it was a good value for someone who actually used the phone a lot. Since I work 2 jobs, it made no sense for me.

I'm neither dancing on Vonage's grave, nor feeling sorry for them.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Gulfport, MS

tc1uscg to priller

Member

to priller
Your right.. Seen some postings that SR and others are next.. just the tip of the berg. Never had any use for VoIP. After 2 attempts.. it's failed miserably.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to brianiscool

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to brianiscool

Re: haha

Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business.

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: haha

said by FFH5:

Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business.
Isn't that is assuming that Verizon and the court accepts that? ... Does Vonage has sufficient financing to withstand months and months of legal fees and still stay afloat?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: haha

said by Jeff:
said by FFH5:

Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business.
Isn't that is assuming that Verizon and the court accepts that? ... Does Vonage has sufficient financing to withstand months and months of legal fees and still stay afloat?
Vonage might not have enough resources to do both, but they made their choice and will live or die by it. But other VOIP providers that may be violating the Verizon patents can negotiate or fight - their choice.

creativebias
Poor Impulse Control
Premium Member
join:2000-08-13
Middletown, CT

creativebias

Premium Member

Re: haha

said by FFH5:

said by Jeff:
said by FFH5:

Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business.
Isn't that is assuming that Verizon and the court accepts that? ... Does Vonage has sufficient financing to withstand months and months of legal fees and still stay afloat?
Vonage might not have enough resources to do both, but they made their choice and will live or die by it. But other VOIP providers that may be violating the Verizon patents can negotiate or fight - their choice.
I had thought I read something that said Verizon was not interested in the royalities and they wanted Vonage shut down instead.

Jim Gurd
Premium Member
join:2000-07-08
Livonia, MI

1 recommendation

Jim Gurd to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

Everybody is looking past 1 fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers but they can stay in business.
Even if that's true they would then lose their only competitive edge which is a lower price. Without a lower price there is no reason to leave the reliability of POTS.

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

2 edits

Pirate515 to FFH5

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to FFH5
said by FFH5:

Everybody is looking past one fact. And that is Vonage can pay royalties to Verizon. It may raise the rates they must charge to customers, but they can stay in business.
Yes, and I am pretty sure that to laugh at Vonage some more, Verizon will charge them some astronomical amount for royalties, forcing Vonage to charge more for their VoIP than Verizon charges for their POTS service. With that in mind, how can Vonage keep existing customers and sign up new ones? The main selling point of VoIP is that while it does have some drawbacks compared to POTS, it is cheaper, and those who are willing to live with these drawbacks in order to save a few bucks will use VoIP instead. However, if they had to live with drawbacks AND pay more while they are at it, then what's the point? Might as well go back to POTS service then.

v35_pilot
Whoops, there goes another AMU
Premium Member
join:2005-12-12
Fayetteville, NY

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said by brianiscool:

Goodbye Vonage. Now I get to taunt my friend about him saying they are the best.
Less competition is never good for the consumer. What do you pay per month for phone service?

AnClar
Premium Member
join:2003-07-31
Belton, TX

AnClar to brianiscool

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to brianiscool
This begs an interesting question. Will all those "locked to Vonage" ATAs that Linksys and Vonage have flooded the market with be unlocked as part of a deal if (when) Vonage goes belly-up, or will the consumers be stuck with useless ATA hardware in addition to whatever service they lose?

My guess is that, as usual, this will be another consumer BOHICA deal and all those ATAs will become so much useless junk.
jhankins4
join:2007-04-10
Vancouver, WA

jhankins4

Member

Re: haha

All of the voip modems locked by Vonage are already being unlocked without Vonage's help. Search the web, I have a few router/voip modem Linksys units I've opened and used elsewhere.

flawlessly
Premium Member
join:2004-02-09
USA

flawlessly to brianiscool

Premium Member

to brianiscool
It was like $100 for a year and a little more for two years of service, now, they are going to close and you people screwed. BIG TIME!

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

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said by brianiscool:

Goodbye Vonage. Now I get to taunt my friend about him saying they are the best.
How lame. This is how so much of the so-called "Free Market" works in the USA these days.

Can't beat the competition with price, customer service, quality, or by offering what customers want? Use your big business corporate clout to unleash a barrage of lawyers to file lawsuits and use heavy Government lobbying to nuke your competition from being even allowed to exist.

Hoo-ray. NOT. Another lose-lose for consumers.

•••

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

Ripe for picking...

I think Verizon could buy up Vonage and offer their own VoIP or sit on it. Then go after Comcast and others...jsut a matter of time...

••••••••
LostMile
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI

1 recommendation

LostMile

Premium Member

Can you say...

Goodbye VoIP, Hello 28¢ per min long distance?

Michieru_
@dadeschools.net

Michieru_

Anon

Re: Can you say...

It's 4.99 per minute to call to Peru without a calling plan using AT&T.

Your 28 cents is something that would actually be a blessing.

mb6
join:2000-07-23
Washington, NJ

1 recommendation

mb6

Member

Interesting!

Interesting, if Vonage has no workaround, it can be inferred that one does not exist. One would then assume that other providers aren't utilizing such non-existent technology and consequently, are in the same position as Vonage.

••••••

Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium Member
join:2001-12-16
PRK

Mactron

Premium Member

Hope this drags out

Hope this drags out.

I want to complete my free year of Sunrocket service before VZ goes after them.
Fingers crossed.
chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA

chemaupr

Member

Re: Hope this drags out

LOL. I was thinking the exact same thing. The way I see it I still have 15 Month of PHN service prepaid. I will hate to lose the last 12 FREE MONTHS.

CampMaster
Rather Be Camp'n
Premium Member
join:2001-05-16
Trabuco Canyon, CA

CampMaster to Mactron

Premium Member

to Mactron
said by Mactron:

Hope this drags out.

I want to complete my free year of Sunrocket service before VZ goes after them.
Fingers crossed.
Me too!

~CMT

JuzT Blase
@spcsdns.net

JuzT Blase

Anon

Vonage

with all the service outages they have been having lately sounds like to me they are testing some new work around... I bet they are saying this to bs the new judge and verzion ... you knoe lure them in and give verzion a sense of security that they won then bam! look what we got...

AnonProxy
Premium Member
join:2001-05-12

AnonProxy

Premium Member

Re: Vonage

No it's loss of revenue now being felt at the service level.
I know a major NOC that got bit by Verizon, who is now booting Vonage equipment off their racks as part of their settlement deal with Verizon. The fact that Vonage has asked to go to net 60 plus isn't helping.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

uhh Duh..

There's a big DUH.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Well..

Well this is just great. I hope that Voicepulse is in a better position that Vonage is.
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

Rick5

Premium Member

Context does matter....

Vonage made this statement to the appeals court in the hopes that they would make permanent the emergency stay the court granted the other day.

What would you expect them to say? "we have a workaround and can roll it out tomorrow?"

They'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

Obviously they don't have a workaround in place today but publicly they did say a couple days ago that they do have one in the development phase and it's a high priority.
It would obviously be bad for them if the appeals court shut off their ability to take on new customers during the appeals process. But, I'm not so sure that they wouldn't then pretty quickly come up with a workaround if they had to. Other companies are saying they aren't even affected by this Verizon~Vonage decision and so there must be workarounds out there that are effective. It would also seem to me that Vonage could buy out one of these smaller players and use their technology if need be.

And so, I think that their statement to the court needs to be taken in context of who they're making the statement to..and for what purpose. Obviously, if they want the stay to be granted, they also want the situation to sound as bad as possible.
JohnA4
Premium Member
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA

JohnA4

Premium Member

Re: Context does matter....

said by Rick5:

Other companies are saying they aren't even affected by this Verizon~Vonage decision and so there must be workarounds out there that are effective.
I don't recall any official company spokesperson, from any voip provider, standing up and saying that their service is totally outside the realm of the patents. Maybe you could refresh our collective memory, as to who that was, beside Vonage.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Context does matter....

I thought Packet 8 said as much when they referred to their ~60 VOIP patents.

trparky
Premium Member
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH

trparky

Premium Member

Can anyone explain...

Can anyone explain to me what patents have been violated? Why does Verizon have this issue with Vonage? What did Vonage do?

••••••

WeSRT4
join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

WeSRT4

Member

Take your money away from the bells

Since the bells are acting the way they are I'm gong to take my wireless service to a small provider. (Time to switch anyway) I would switch to cable, but Mediacrap won't service the area.

•••••••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

vonage stepped in poo

Vonage actively sought Verizon POTS customers.. that's a NO-NO in chapter 1 of Verizon's playbook. Voicewing VOIP patents cannot and will not hold hostage an ENTIRE VOIP INDUSTRY. At some point there will be a limit (certain jurisdictions) on how far Verizon can go to enforce patents/royalties to bring the 3rd party providers to their knees. I'm not a lawyer, but common sense reigns here.

I cannot foresee a day (right now) where CABLE VOIP and Telcos VOIP/POTS are the ONLY two alternatives. Still, if Verizon wants to play hardball.. there's always WIRELESS VOIP/DATA/Walkie-talkie service where Verizon could get trampled on if a bunch of VOIP companies are at risk of becoming endangered species (the enemy of my enemy is my friend). Wireless is still an area with HUGE investment where Verizon is still vulnerable, so I think they'll just focus on hurting the BIGGEST competitive threats as needed [aka vonage].

****And this anti-competitive NONSENSE has a funny way of steering FTTP deployment money... Grrr!

•••••

AnonProxy
Premium Member
join:2001-05-12

AnonProxy

Premium Member

To recap because many just seem to rehash

1. Vonage was cheap because it used supposedly COTS and open source software in an effort NOT to pay licensing.
2. Vonage made money on SIGNING NEW contracts, the actual revenue from existing customers was barely enough to cover operating costs.
3. With no ability to sign new customers, they are effectively dead in the water and will not have enough revenue to service existing client bases nor will they be able to fend off a long protracted battle in court.
4. Both Verizon and Vonage know this; Verizon in hopes to cull the client list and put Vonage in a very easy buy out position (pennies on the dollar) and Vonage who was essentially an old era DOTCOM company running a new "scam". Sure they had a product but if you are artificially keeping prices low by not paying royalties that are due to companies that own the patents, your just a scam.
5. There are many other VOIP companies out there and also companies providing dial tone over cable, but they are more expensive...why...because they are actually paying royalties or own the equipment and software they use.

Vonage was only ever two things; a way to get some majority stockholders money. And a throwback to the old dotcom smoke an mirrors of no accountability and big spending on a product that was "stolenware" or "patentware".

•••
pepperxn
join:2001-02-21

pepperxn

Member

vonage, sunrocket

Was it SunRocket that said they use their own patents for their VoIP? If so, wouldn't it be a great idea if Vonage and SunRocket merge, and use those patents? They would expand the number of customers, as well. If not SunRocket, then maybe another VoIP company.

Patents should expire. If a company files a patent, and make no effort at all to actually research, and/or develop it within a certain number of years after they get the patent, it should be allowed to expire. If another company actually develops it, they should be allowed to buy the patent for a small fee. A fee small enough where it's not worth it to have patents just to make money off of it.

If the patent is way too broad, it should be more like a "good for you, you're the first to file a patent on it." Not something to sue someone over. If the patent is more detailed, and says "how", then it's really a unique idea.

I don't think Vonage will go under. Since it's the #1 independent VoIP company, and with the number of customers, I think it would get bought, or merge to avoid this lawsuit.

Verizon could be doing this to lower Vonage's stock, then buy them, and then make it their own VoIP service, or just to make a few million bucks. Why would they want to get customers to switch from the future (VoIP) back to them using the PSTN. How about Voicewing? It's not marketed well compared to the other VoIP providers, it's almost like an experiment. And I read here that Voicewing is really a 3rd party service. Sometimes it's easier to buy than to build it yourself...

Just what I think.

Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium Member
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

Michieru2

Premium Member

!

Verizon sliced the head off Vonage on this battle.

K.O

DoTheResearch
@kaballero.com

DoTheResearch

Anon

VZ May have problems ...

when the appeal comes around. If their patent claims are indeed that broad, I don't see how they will be able to win an appeal. Actually I don't see how the won the first case.

Just a little history...

»www.utdallas.edu/~bjacks ··· ory.html
tranceman
join:2005-05-04
Morrisville, PA

tranceman

Member

Verizon can help themselves by

acquiring vonage and utilizing there technology, which works much better than voicewing. It would be a huge boost in subscribers for verizon and at this point they could take over vonage with little or no money.
ColeStorm
join:2001-07-20
Minneapolis, MN

ColeStorm

Member

Trust Vonage?

At this point can we trust anything coming out of Vonage to be truthful? This company deserves to die a slow painful death. I just feel sorry for some of the fools that got caught up in the IPO hype who lost a lot of money. Maybe Sen Schumer and Sen Reed will introduce a program to bail them out too?
Kiwi88
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Bryant, AR

Kiwi88

Premium Member

Re: Trust Vonage?

Well, I'll hang out till they hang up, probably.

On another note perhaps this is free from patent ripping trauma [That's how I view broadly worded techno patents]:

The Limitations of VoIP, garner an interest in TDMoIP.

In principle, it would not seem difficult to carry voice over IP networks; a digitized voice signal is simply data and can be carried by a packet network just like any other data. The major technological achievement of the telephone network, that of least cost routing, has its counterpart in IP networks as well. There are, however, two fundamental problems which have to be solved before VoIP can be realistically considered to compete with TDM networks; namely, QoS and signaling.
Can't say I had issues, but oh well.

The next step perhaps, If this works out I hope the nOObs stay away from it, next thing they will be crying about e911 again and knock pricing up, then we will have a return seminar on the same BS as it is with Vonage!

Some people are simply not meant to have technology, they could spill milk walking past a ten ton container.

TDMoIP

kyote
@databoost.com

kyote

Anon

will we be allowed out of our contracts?

Will those of us in a contract be allowed out without penalty? I might as well switch to CallVantage with AT&T.
Dampier
Phillip M Dampier
join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY

1 recommendation

Dampier

Member

It's Over!

Let's get real. When a company blatantly lies to its investors and customers with a promise of a workaround they knew themselves didn't exist, it's a sign of absolute desperation. We're talking about the demise of Vonage in a matter of weeks here. The moment the judge lifts the stay or the appeal is denied, this company races to bankruptcy court in prep for being sold off or to liquidate.

Their management is fleeing, their marketing budget which is absolutely the most essential part of keeping this company viable has been slashed, along with their employees.

People need to start living in the real world. It makes no difference whether Vonage was a pioneer or how many customers they have today. If the judge lifts the stay, it's over. Investors are fleeing and so are customers.

Now if the cheerleading squad wants to be the last people left to turn the lights off and lose their annual fees (good luck getting many credit card companies to chargeback a company in bankruptcy protection), their phone numbers, and their phone service, that's fine with me, but you can't say you weren't warned, and if you're out any/all of the above, our sympathy is limited at best.

I started the process of leaving today. When a company tells a whopper of a lie about their fundamental ability to survive, it's not exactly time to throw them a party!
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