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Vonage Wins Stay In Verizon Patent Fight
Can continue signing up new customers as it fights appeal
On the heels of our earlier report concerning the dubious nature of some of Verizon's VoIP patents, it looks like Vonage has now been granted a stay by the U.S. Court of Appeals that will allow them to continue signing up new customers. This means that for now Vonage can continue using the disputed technology as it appeals a jury's decision that the VoIP provider infringed on three of Verizon's patents. Vonage shares surged 46% upon the news, says Bloomberg. Also see Vonage press release.
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

A headless chicken

will continue to live for a few hours after they've been beheaded.

Its only a matter of time for Vonage's hour to come......

Cabal
Premium Member
join:2007-01-21

Cabal

Premium Member

Re: A headless chicken

»More Questions Surrounding Verizon VoIP Patents

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski to ninjatutle

Premium Member

to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle:

will continue to live for a few hours after they've been beheaded.

Its only a matter of time for Vonage's hour to come......
Hardly...they have a much stronger case now than they have had before. They are far from being beheaded.

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Re: A headless chicken

One less hole in the hull of a broken, sinking ship does not save the crew...

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to ptrowski

MVM

to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

Hardly...they have a much stronger case now than they have had before. They are far from being beheaded.
I would agree that they are far from being beheaded. However I'm not real sure how much stronger the case is currently. There has been some evidence brought up that might invalidate Verizon's patent. However appeal courts don't generally deal with new evidence, they usually just look at the existing evidence that was presented at the original trial and see if justice was somehow mis-served somewhere. For Vonage to truly win, they would have to have the patent invalidated or at least a judge to rule that Vonage's technology is different the what is stated in the patent. The invalidation of a patent can be a very long process. See the RIM/Blackberry vs. NTP lawsuit for how long that can take...if not longer.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: A headless chicken

said by cdru:
said by ptrowski:

Hardly...they have a much stronger case now than they have had before. They are far from being beheaded.
I would agree that they are far from being beheaded. However I'm not real sure how much stronger the case is currently. There has been some evidence brought up that might invalidate Verizon's patent. However appeal courts don't generally deal with new evidence, they usually just look at the existing evidence that was presented at the original trial and see if justice was somehow mis-served somewhere. For Vonage to truly win, they would have to have the patent invalidated or at least a judge to rule that Vonage's technology is different the what is stated in the patent. The invalidation of a patent can be a very long process. See the RIM/Blackberry vs. NTP lawsuit for how long that can take...if not longer.
True, but then again if they look at the existing evidence, then appeal the ruling again based on new evidence, this could go on and on...

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Re: A headless chicken

The trick is to prove that the trial court erred in its original decision based on the evidence presented by both parties at the trial. Walking in with a new defense after the trial ends is not going to get you anywhere.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: A headless chicken

A judge's decision/opinion (non-legal definition) is final. If he says pigs fly, thats legal precedent now. The whole point in a appeal is to say something went wrong in the procedure of the trial (AKA BS details), not the actual decision of the judge. Once you get a new trial, based on the BS technicality, you get a clean slate to work with.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: A headless chicken

said by patcat88:

A judge's decision/opinion (non-legal definition) is final. If he says pigs fly, thats legal precedent now. The whole point in a appeal is to say something went wrong in the procedure of the trial (AKA BS details), not the actual decision of the judge. Once you get a new trial, based on the BS technicality, you get a clean slate to work with.
Thanks patcat88.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup to patcat88

Premium Member

to patcat88
said by patcat88:

A judge's decision/opinion (non-legal definition) is final. If he says pigs fly, thats legal precedent now. The whole point in a appeal is to say something went wrong in the procedure of the trial (AKA BS details), not the actual decision of the judge. Once you get a new trial, based on the BS technicality, you get a clean slate to work with.
It was not a judges opinion. Vontage was tried by a jury of it peers.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: A headless chicken

The Judge still has an opinion that becomes precedent.

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium Member
join:2004-11-17
Murfreesboro, TN

King P to ninjatutle

Premium Member

to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle:

will continue to live for a few hours after they've been beheaded.

Its only a matter of time for Vonage's hour to come......
Look, let's be real here. Verizon has as much "real" claim on those patents as do the companies that actually contributed to the development of it, of course that can be countered with "well at least Verizon has the patents" but whatever...

I'm glad that Vonage got this stay in judgement, but look for them to sell out as quickly as possible to the first (or second) company that comes with an offer.

I say this, and I am a happy Vonage user. As long as I can continue to get my great VoIP service, then I'm happy.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: A headless chicken

said by King P:

Look, let's be real here. Verizon has as much "real" claim on those patents as do the companies that actually contributed to the development of it,
How would you know? You don't even know what the pattens are.
Expand your moderator at work

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

I didn't know BBR had so many Legal Specialist as members


PRIOR Art
@weyerhaeuser.com

PRIOR Art to ninjatutle

Anon

to ninjatutle
PRIOR ART ring a bell?

random thought
@optonline.net

random thought

Anon

first the stay, now the appeal

Obviously the case for appeal is strong enough to convince the panel to grant the permanent stay. Its about time the biggest telco on the block received a swift kick to the bells.
bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA

bigjimc

Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

said by random thought :

swift kick to the bells.
Nice Baby Bells reference. I like it

wwdubbia
join:2002-06-03
Clinton, NY

2 recommendations

wwdubbia

Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

I predict: Verizonage.

R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA

R4M0N

Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

said by wwdubbia:

I predict: Verizonage.
A+ for effort.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

How about Verizon pwnoge.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

1 recommendation

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

said by ninjatutle:

How about Verizon pwnoge.
Sorry, I don't speak punk, I mean leet. Save that for the kiddies, please.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

I would translate that to geek speak for you but I don't really know it

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

said by ninjatutle:

I would translate that to geek speak for you but I don't really know it
I would not be so sure.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup to ninjatutle

Premium Member

to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle:

I would translate that to geek speak for you but I don't really know it
I $PeEK Flu13nT L33t.
i VaLu1 4r+ICULo L33T L@tin.
vinnie97
Premium Member
join:2003-12-05
US

vinnie97 to random thought

Premium Member

to random thought
quote:
the biggest telco on the block
Wouldn't that be AT&T?

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: first the stay, now the appeal

said by vinnie97:

quote:
the biggest telco on the block
Wouldn't that be AT&T?
Depends on the "block."

random thought
@optonline.net

random thought to vinnie97

Anon

to vinnie97
yes, make that the second biggest telcom on the block. happy now?

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup to random thought

Premium Member

to random thought
said by random thought :

Obviously the case for appeal is strong enough to convince the panel to grant the permanent stay. Its about time the biggest telco on the block received a swift kick to the bells.
Jim is that you?
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

Rick5

Premium Member

Verizon appears to be getting their

butts kicked the last few days in this case. First, there's all this news questioning the validity of their patents and now this.

Apparently the appeals court is siding with Vonage in this case.

Perhaps Verizon will now make a bid for Vonage.
It's not looking good for their case, and if Vonage is going to continue to take their customers, it might be the thing to do.

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: Verizon appears to be getting their

I thought Sprint was going to get on the deal, too. Sprint vs. Verizon - that'd be a heckuva fight.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium Member
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

ColorBASIC

Premium Member

Certainly didn't slow their commercials

Stay or not they've been playing those commericals non-stop over the last few weeks. I also got 2 emails (being an ex-customer) begging me to come back. Of course their service sucked so bad and was so overpriced I would never return to Vonage. I'm extremely happy with Viatalk.

•••

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview

Premium Member

Some good news

. . . for a change.

Glad to see it.


Vani
@charter.com

Vani

Anon

Judge panels are Vonage Happy Customer

I think Judges of this case are probably Vonage Happy Customer.......

JammerMan79
Premium Member
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC

JammerMan79

Premium Member

Re: Judge panels are Vonage Happy Customer

What would happen if the judge (or someone in their family) just happened to go and purchase a whole wack of vonage stock right before the verdict came out?

That wouldn't be insider trading would it?
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried

Premium Member

Re: Judge panels are Vonage Happy Customer

I just pulled up the February 2007 holding in Verizon v Vonage and searched for the term "prior art" in the ruling. Surprisingly, I didn't get one hit. Hmm...

Bluethunder
Thunder PC
join:1999-12-05
Duncan, SC

Bluethunder

Member

At the end of the day

In the end, it's just costing you, the consumer, the one that is really paying for this legal battle. I can proudly say, neither of these two get a dime of my money.
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned)

Member

Re: At the end of the day

Verizon is big enough that somehow even indirectly they get your money.

Bluethunder
Thunder PC
join:1999-12-05
Duncan, SC

Bluethunder

Member

Re: At the end of the day

said by nonymous:

Verizon is big enough that somehow even indirectly they get your money.
Umm Ok

Alex G Bell
join:2002-07-02
Boston, MA

Alex G Bell

Member

Way To Go Vonage!

Anyone who wins against the big bully Verizon is tops in my book. Verizon was so greedy they were going for the jugular vein like a vulture, now let Verizon suffer with what they deserve.

dowhattowho
@comcast.net

dowhattowho

Anon

Re: Way To Go Vonage!

The 3COM patent has a file date of 1998. The patent issue date is 2003. VZ 6104711 has a file date 1997-issue date 2000. Patent #6282574 was accepted as a continuation of 711. The patent file date is 2000 - issue date 2001. 3COM patent # 6567405 used VZ patent,and a BELL ATLANTIC patent from 1993 as a reference for network address translation. (Bell ATLANTIC-NYNEX-GTE- MCI) now VZ have used packet switched voice data for business customers for a long time and have the patents to prove it.

izy
MVM
join:2000-09-21
endless loop

izy

MVM

Can't they just kiss and make up??

I have Verizon cell service and Vonage at home. They both work great! It'd be a shame to have to cancel them both because of their greed...

AnonProxy
Premium Member
join:2001-05-12

AnonProxy

Premium Member

It's a

house of cards....