Wired AT&T Whilstleblower Interview 'I want it exposed and stopped....' Wired offers an interview with 22-year former AT&T employee Mark Klein, who blew the whistle on the phone provider's involvement with the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program. "They have embedded spying into the infrastructure of the Internet," he says. "I'm not sure people are fully conscious of what is going on, and I want it exposed and stopped." When asked what Klein would like to see next, he says he wants to see the monitoring room in AT&T's San Francisco building gutted first hand. "I will not be satisfied with assurances from the government that this program is stopped or being overseen by a court." Klein's redacted documents are here (pdf). A video interview between Klein and ABC's Nightline is here.
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 |  | | | | | | Re: Ric Romero Speaks As an ISP for 12 years, I can tell you that that was not until recently.
Funny thing is AT&Ts little rooms were pay for by government money and ours comes out of our pocket.
Odd how that works. | |
|
cacoPremium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK | "Guys would stop by the union office and shoot the breeze " Union guys just hanging around doing nothing? I'm shocked.
--
www.seabee.org | |
| | | | Re: "Guys would stop by the union office and shoot the breeze " said by caco:Union guys just hanging around doing nothing? I'm shocked. lol. Discussions of democracy and national security are too heavy for me to deal with this morning. But this quote is just greeeaaattt!
ttbn | |
|
 Michieru2zzz zzz zzzPremium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | ! There is probable cause, so why has there not been a warrant being issued to investigate these rooms already? | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: ! said by Michieru2:There is probable cause, so why has there not been a warrant being issued to investigate these rooms already? »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_law
A warrant CAN NOT be issued. Its outside the power of a judicial order. | |
|
| | There's a reason democracies can only last for so long You can't do the things necessary to save the democracy from itself... there are too many good intentions at odds with each other, and to much open-ness makes the democracy vulnerable.
This guy thinks he's doing the right thing, but people forget, there is a whistleblower act he should have used. You can't just go to the print press because you want to. There is a thing called national security, which is not free speech, and it trumps the public's general need to know. If people don't trust the government, they can replace them in the next elections. (Oh, that's right, those are rigged...). I guess were screwed. | |
| | bi0tech
join:2003-06-19
Cockeysville, MD Reviews:
 ·Comcast
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Whats that old quote... 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' Good intention just seems to be an excuse for bad judgement and a lack of rational thought. Everyone still in a tizzy over the big bad terrorists should pay more attention to thier own government.
You can worry about the snakes in the trees, I'll worry about the 800lb gorilla in my back yard. | |
| | |  Rocky67Pencil Neck GeekPremium
join:2005-01-13
Orange, CA
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long "Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
Daniel Webster
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"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
James Madison
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"The Internet? Is that thing still around?" - Homer | |
| | | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Let's not forget why the terrorist surveillance program was started in the first place and try to imagine any unintended consequences of Mr Kliens actions.
* “We–with God’s help–call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan’s U.S. troops and the devil’s supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.” Feb. 1998 - OBL edict
* “Hostility toward America is a religious duty, and we hope to be rewarded for it by God . . . . I am confident that Muslims will be able to end the legend of the so-called superpower that is America.“ OBL in Time Magazine
* “Every American man is an enemy to us.” – OBL in the Independent.
* “We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.” OBL to a Pakistani T.V. Journalist
* “I say to you: that we are in a battle, and that more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media,” Ayman al-Zawahiri | |
| | | | |  japPremium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Bah. Emotional rhetoric for a sound bite nation.
The surveilance infra will be used to spy on citizens, in corporate competition, for financial markets manipulation, and in party politics. It's too easy, too untraceable, and too enticing an advantage. Human history, human nature. The terrorist excuse is so worn thin. Mil h ardware and field service vendors are in love with terrorism. | |
|
| | |  ctceoPremium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN | And we've never even been a Democracy, lol. | |
|
| | | | said by bi0tech:. . .I'll worry about the 800lb gorilla in my back yard. You mean in your house? | |
|
| | | I concur with your overall view- but as we can see the system of checks and balances work! Although some get over zealous in their actions at times and over step! | |
| |  Steve BPremium
join:2004-08-02
Seattle, WA | Democracies can last long if executed properly. I believe the problem to be that people expect complete and total freedom to do and say whenever and wherever they want. If done exactly as stated, it will lead to problems, security will be an issue. Prioritizing is what seems to be the problem here. People think the right to know out weighs the need for national security. | |
| | |  KoolMoeAw ManPremium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long I don't think it's so much the concept of "right to know outweighs the need for national security" but more that we need to trust our government that the information they withhold TRULY is in the interest of national security and not just because they F*'d up or could be embarrassed.
The current administration has not shown itself to be very trustworthy. Hence the suspicion about 'national security needs' would seem to be completely justified.
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
|
|  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
·Charter
1 edit | said by TwoCpus4me:This guy thinks he's doing the right thing, but people forget, there is a whistleblower act he should have used. You can't just go to the print press because you want to. There is a thing called national security, which is not free speech, and it trumps the public's general need to know. what the hell are you talking about? there is no prescribed route that whistleblowers must go through in order for reporting the illegal activity to be legitimate.
national security does not give the government free reign to do whatever the hell they want. that's what happened the first couple years after 9/11 and look where they got us. plus, this isn't just the government. this is also AT&T, VERIZON, etc. corporations that have and continue to break the laws of this nation in exchange for merger approval, etc. | |
| | |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long said by morbo:national security does not give the government free reign to do whatever the hell they want. that's what happened the first couple years after 9/11 and look where they got us. Yes, all that got us was a couple years of no attacks.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | | |  cbrigante2Cubs 20??Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long said by ThrowDemsOut:said by morbo:national security does not give the government free reign to do whatever the hell they want. that's what happened the first couple years after 9/11 and look where they got us. Yes, all that got us was a couple years of no attacks. How many years did we go with those freedoms and no attacks? | |
| | | | revuney
join:2003-03-22
Somerville, MA | said by ThrowDemsOut:Yes, all that got us was a couple years of no attacks. Hey, I got a new cat right after 9/11 and we've have no attacks since then either. I think we have my cat to thank just as much as the Government spying on it's own citizens. Where's the love for Mr. Fluffy? | |
| | | | | ctceoPremium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Post us a Pic, I want to see what our terrorist saviour looks like.  | |
| | | | | | revuney
join:2003-03-22
Somerville, MA | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Sorry, we can't share that with you. Because if we did, Al-Qaeda could win, and WMD's could then be planted in Mr. Fluffy's litter box. Plus, it would be un-patriotic. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 |  | |
|
| | | |  N3OGHCertified GLG-20Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | To paraphrase Homer Simpson:
"Sir, I want to buy your cat!"
--
FCC, PLEASE KILL THE MERGER BEFORE THE MERGER KILLS SATRAD! | |
|
| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | So in other words, the reason why democracies can only last for so long is Republicans. Given the evidence, one really can't argue with that. | |
|
| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| This kind of privacy violation was specifically outlawed. National security can not be used as a trump card for every action. If you let it, then the government can do ANYTHING and cite national security. Our government derives its authority from our votes and laws passed by those we elected. National security is a valid interest, but the means used to pursue it must be authorized by the people. | |
| | | | | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long If only in a perfect world!? | |
|
| ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | They should send this guy to prison for breaking national security laws. All he did was help the terrorists. | |
| | | | | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Cite, please. O'Reilly doesn't count. One objective example of where the terrorists have been directly and substantively aided by this person and his revelations will do nicely. | |
| | |
approval from:
John Galt 
| All he did was uncover snooping, lying, deception being practiced by the government on its own citizens. To paranoids, bent on unlimited power, this is treasonous.
All for our benefit of course.
As a conservative I have to ask you: What gives you the right to trade my liberties for such a benefit. I don't remember agreeing to that bargain. You are, of course, free to trade whatever of yours you choose in exchange for whatever sense of safety it give you. You aren't free to make such decisions for hundreds of millions of other american citizens. I would expect a conservative to understand this.
You have an extremely schizophrenic view of government. One minute you insist government can't be trusted to impose a penny tax on a pack of bubble gum, next minute you sound prepared to let it plant surveillance devices up your backside if it is so inclined.
I'm sure you'll be back to your distrust after the next presidential election and suddenly rediscover your lost belief in limited government. There is nothing like not being in control of government to reinvigorate one's distrust of it. | |
|
| | | AMAZING! It is NOT that Democracies can only last so long, it is that FREEDOM is restricted to the point that there is not more chance that as a nation, we can as a majority come to truthful, correct decisions. I do NOT think it is good to blame the downfall of Democracy on the very freedom which actually if left secure, would PROTECT it in the long run!
To say that "National Security" trumps whistleblowers; in this case someone who has knowledge of the GOVERNMENT BREAKING the 1st Amendment, CONSTITUTION as a whole, the Bill of Rights, and many other laws setup by this country's founders to PROTECT our PRIVACY in the FIRST PLACE; is what I find that Bush supporters, or our Republican supporters, or anybody who thinks that the PATRIOT ACT is a good thing... Part of the PROBLEM!
You already got a nasty feeling about this post? IF YOU DO NOT READ IT ALL, then you are going to do what you should NOT do: Put your biased blinders on to hear an opinion different from your own. So, please read on!
Well, this country already has passed so many laws to "TRUMP" our rights in these ways it is recognized the world over that the USA is truly one of the least FREE and PRIVATE LIFE countries in the developed world.
It's hopeless, if someone like this post reflects...
The country "AMERICA"...
The land of the FREE, the RIGHT to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Where are you wanting to live, in a new country NOT as written in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?
I'd suggest that anyone who feels too threatened by FREE PERSONAL RIGHTS, as defined by US Constitution and Bill of Rights, to go live where there are more controls to PROTECT you from all those evil-doers of the world...
OH, I forgot... The Muslims of the world which number up into the near billion people mark, are not angry for no reason?
HUMmmm, it is so ironic that people cannot see the truth for what it is, and then admit that somehow, they got misdirected in their belief system while growing up, while living, while being a part of a country which is steering further and further from its intended goals under which it was founded... Which by the way, even YOU and everyone else THOUGHT were GOOD ideas while in school growing up and proud to say you were an AMERICAN.
How many of us can say that NOW!
Oh yeah, I forgot AGAIN... It is the Muslim populations, the evildoers we have to protect ourselves from, and to do so, just throw out the Constitution and Bill of Rights...
Wait, wasn't it the USA which went and blew a country to hell, alienated a whole world of Muslims by us BUSTING DOWN the door of EVERY countryman in Iraq (yes, I was there and have friends who were married to Iraq citizens) AND then what did they do when they BROKE down average Joe-blow citizen in Iraq? They threw them onto the floor (women and children too), used those plastic adjustable ties to put the peoples hands tied behind their back, flat on the floor, many elderly which this HURTS as many people cannot radius their shoulders this much to ties behind the back while prone on the floor, then the soldiers ran-shacked the whole house, throwing everything from drawers, shelves, bed, furniture upside down, totally destroying those homes, THEN arresting 9 out of 10 men, even if they were only 7 ~ 12 years old, putting them into wire caged open area holding "CELLS" (cell?) directly outside in the open weather... This even in the winter... Yes, no clothes provided or blankets, just a stupid insulting little bit of TERRIBLE food and stinky water. Yes, it does snow and get below freezing in Iraq even in Bagdad! So, these men and young males are all presumed guilty of being terrorists or whatever with absolutely NO reason or evidence. Many of these people died of exposure, starvation, sickness, or just plain suffering. And the wives/girl-friend/sister/relatives were not told WHERE the soldiers took their kin, so they spent sometimes months trying to locate their poor kin, only to find them held for month after month out in the open like this.
Now, let's see if this was justified, ok?
There was an attack on the world trade center. It was done by even what the government admits was Bin Laden associates and his people.
And so, we go tell the American public, that Iraq has all this mass destruction stuff, terrorists, etc, and we get the public and Congress to go along... But now, it is completely established that we had false intelligence, went to war for one reason but now we are there for another: What is THAT reason? Why, DEMOCRACY!
Ah, it is so nice to think, that what WAS the best nation on earth, could stoop so far as to lie to the American Public to get what amounts to self-serving interests...
What is that you say?
Why, we have to control the OIL of the mideast, we absolutely cannot afford to allow anything to interrupt the flow no matter what laws this country was established on. I do not know if you are reading, watching, educating yourself on all what is and has happened, but for those who HAVE taken the time and effort to find out the truth, this is the fact:
We have attacked the OLDEST civilized part of the world, PERSIA, which is over 5,000 years older than China, and we feel we have the right to invade, for what turns out was a lie?
So, spy on Americans via the Patriot Act, to prevent pissed-off Muslims from hurting us is the answer?
We should go apologize to every single person in the world who is Muslim, and then, help return the country of Iraq to what WAS a stable NO TERRORISTS nation under Sadamm... Yes he was REAL bad news and had to go, but the way to do it was NOT to ruin a perfectly well running country, its innocent citizens, and create a hornets nest of angry people the world over, just so we could control the OIL!!!!!!!!
Friggin for God's sake, have Americans lost their sense of right and wrong, of propriety, of decency?
Oh me oh my, what has this country come to...
Sir, it is sad to hear that the public internet is monitored to the point of evesdropping on anything they want, in the name of PROTECTION.
But this is not all!
I have a friend in the conglomerate TELCO business: DID YOU KNOW, that EVERY SINGLE INTERNATIONAL PHONE CALL is monitored by super computers, with programming to flag key words, phrases, or general "drift" of a conversation, and if anything whatsoever is flagged, then it goes up the chain to what eventually is a live person who will arbitrarily decide if your conversation was of ANY threat. You could be talking to your MOTHER in ENGLAND, about some money matter, or flight problems, or completely innocent things, and YOUR NAME and contact info goes into a database for FURTHER WATCHING.
It gets worse: Did you know, this PHONE EVESDROPPING, is now on every single call nationwide?
Yeah, you say I am crazy, and do not know what I speak about, but it does not stop THERE!
EVERY single email, is watched by super computer farms, for suspicious words, clauses, phrases, with programs which are intelligent to fish out so called "HIDDEN MESSAGES" cloaked in regular emails.
OK, thought that was it?
No, EVERY financial transaction you make, via DEBIT CARD, CHECK, CREDIT CARD, whatever, is also linked to a central programming interface to FIND out the so called hidden secret transfers of money for evil purposes...
BUT, IT LINKED INTO THE IRS, THE DEPT of STATE, the FBI and CIA, so if you transfer $x amount of money to your own account or a business, lets say you have two homes, one in New York, the other in Hawaii or Spain or the Caribbean or you choose the place, your private fiscal affairs are monitored and you are NOT living in the land of the FREE...
You are living in a Big Brother nation, just as George Orwell wrote many decades ago. Your every act, word, is being monitored.
Now THAT is what I call AMERICA, and boy, am I SO VERY proud to be a part of a nation who will protect its nation and the world from damnation by all those terrorists who are out to destroy us.
Bet you didn't know, that it all started by the actions of the USA in the FIRST place? Yep, decades ago, we started to yank so poor nations citizens with what we deemed were essential actions, to get our oil contracts, which included the "Oliver North" scandal of DRUGS for WEAPONS which went to the MID-EAST to help the nations WE wanted in power overcome those we did NOT want. It came back to haunt us, look at the weapons which we poured into Iran and Iraq and Saudi Arabia, to get the hand-shakes WE wanted, for OIL.
This had NOTHING to do with national security, and still does not. It is now a cover for what we blundered into by pissing off 1/4 of the worlds population for HURTING a nation and NATIONS for our self imposed goals...
The people be dammed, we just had to get what we wanted.
If you think this post is full of it, then you are entitled to your opinion, but ask yourself first: Do YOU think you have really got the whole correct story from the nightly news on CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX?
Just go sign-up for DirecTV, and go to channel 375, the "iLINK" channel, a non-profit organization (global) which will include broadcast newscasts even in native language from ENGLAND, FRANCE, GERMANY, SPAIN, NORWAY, FINLAND, BELGIUM, ITALY, JAPAN, CHINA, AUSTRALIA, SOUTH AFRICA, plus... yep, you guessed it, even those lands which you think are the bad boys; Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Afganistan, India, on and on...
If you still feel the USA is on the right track AFTER educating yourself, then correct me if I am wrong on any point above!
What is important is this: Without free press (it is stifled by the Patriot Act now), we cannot know the facts and therefore cannot have intelligent, correct opinions about things.
THAT is why AMERICA was devoted to FREEDOM... There is no other way to get all the voices out, all the opinions, the facts, the theories, the eventual TRUTH...
THAT is the goal of a true Democracy, I hope it is not too late.
I wish us all good luck, as we will need it in this mess we have created, yes, WE as a nation disrupted the global stability more than any other nation in history. Funny, my father is a world history teacher. Bet you can guess his wonderment at what is going on in AMERICA and as a result of our actions, the world in general.
I hope and pray for a free press (remember that concept?) and freedom of speech, so we can get to the truth in this nation of ours, again.
You all better hope and pray that this happens too, or this world is gonna go to the devil, or hell, or shit, or something bad.
END of story.
So to conclude:
YOU DO NOT MIND, that you have NO privacy at all left? | |
| | | | AMAZING! It is NOT that Democracies can only last so long, it is that FREEDOM is restricted to the point that there is not more chance that as a nation, we can as a majority come to truthful, correct decisions. I do NOT think it is good to blame the downfall of Democracy on the very freedom which actually if left secure, would PROTECT it in the long run!
To say that "National Security" trumps whistleblowers; in this case someone who has knowledge of the GOVERNMENT BREAKING the 1st Amendment, CONSTITUTION as a whole, the Bill of Rights, and many other laws setup by this country's founders to PROTECT our PRIVACY in the FIRST PLACE; is what I find that Bush supporters, or our Republican supporters, or anybody who thinks that the PATRIOT ACT is a good thing... Part of the PROBLEM!
You already got a nasty feeling about this post? IF YOU DO NOT READ IT ALL, then you are going to do what you should NOT do: Put your biased blinders on to hear an opinion different from your own. So, please read on!
Well, this country already has passed so many laws to "TRUMP" our rights in these ways it is recognized the world over that the USA is truly one of the least FREE and PRIVATE LIFE countries in the developed world.
It's hopeless, if someone like this post reflects...
The country "AMERICA"...
The land of the FREE, the RIGHT to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Where are you wanting to live, in a new country NOT as written in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights?
I'd suggest that anyone who feels too threatened by FREE PERSONAL RIGHTS, as defined by US Constitution and Bill of Rights, to go live where there are more controls to PROTECT you from all those evil-doers of the world...
OH, I forgot... The Muslims of the world which number up into the near billion people mark, are not angry for no reason?
Hummmm, it is so ironic that people cannot see the truth for what it is, and then admit that somehow, they got misdirected in their belief system while growing up, while living, while being a part of a country which is steering further and further from its intended goals under which it was founded... Which by the way, even YOU and everyone else THOUGHT were GOOD ideas while in school growing up and proud to say you were an AMERICAN.
How many of us can say that NOW!
Oh yeah, I forgot AGAIN... It is the Muslim populations, the evildoers we have to protect ourselves from, and to do so, just throw out the Constitution and Bill of Rights...
Wait, wasn't it the USA which went and blew a country to hell, alienated a whole world of Muslims by us BUSTING DOWN the door of EVERY countryman in Iraq (yes, I was there and have friends who were married to Iraq citizens) AND then what did they do when they BROKE down average Joe-blow citizen in Iraq? They threw them onto the floor (women and children too), used those plastic adjustable ties to put the peoples hands tied behind their back, flat on the floor, many elderly which this HURTS as many people cannot radius their shoulders this much to ties behind the back while prone on the floor, then the soldiers ramshacked the whole house, throwing everything from drawers, shelves, bed, furniture upside down, totally destroying those homes, THEN arresting 9 out of 10 men, even if they were only 7 ~ 12 years old, putting them into wire caged open area holding "CELLS" (cell?) directly outside in the open weather... This even in the winter... Yes, no clothes provided or blankets, just a stupid insulting little bit of TERRIBLE food and stinky water. Yes, it does snow and get below freezing in Iraq even in Bagdad! So, these men and young males are all presumed guilty of being terrorists or whatever with absolutely NO reason or evidence. Many of these people died of exposure, starvation, sickness, or just plain suffering. And the wives/girl-friend/sister/relatives were not told WHERE the soldiers took their kin, so they spent sometimes months trying to locate their poor kin, only to find them held for month after month out in the open like this.
Now, let's see if this was justified, ok?
There was an attack on the world trade center. It was done by even what the government admits was Bin Laden associates and his people.
And so, we go tell the American public, that Iraq has all this mass destruction stuff, terrorists, etc, and we get the public and Congress to go along... But now, it is completely established that we had false intelligence, went to war for one reason but now we are there for another: What is THAT reason? Why, DEMOCRACY!
Ah, it is so nice to think, that what WAS the best nation on earth, could stoop so far as to lie to the American Public to get what amounts to self-serving interests...
What is that you say?
Why, we have to control the OIL of the mideast, we absolutely cannot afford to allow anything to interrupt the flow no matter what laws this country was established on. I do not know if you are reading, watching, educating yourself on all what is and has happened, but for those who HAVE taken the time and effort to find out the truth, this is the fact:
We have attacked the OLDEST civilized part of the world, PERSIA, which is over 5,000 years older than China, and we feel we have the right to invade, for what turns out was a lie?
So, spy on Americans via the Patriot Act, to prevent pissed-off Muslims from hurting us is the answer?
We should go apologize to every single person in the world who is Muslim, and then, help return the country of Iraq to what WAS a stable NO TERRORISTS nation under Sadamm... Yes he was REAL bad news and had to go, but the way to do it was NOT to ruin a perfectly well running country, its innocent citizens, and create a hornets nest of angry people the world over, just so we could control the OIL!!!!!!!!
Friggin for God's sake, have Americans lost their sense of right and wrong, of propriety, of decency?
Oh me oh my, what has this country come to...
Sir, it is sad to hear that the public internet is monitored to the point of evesdropping on anything they want, in the name of PROTECTION.
But this is not all!
I have a friend in the conglomerate TELCO business: DID YOU KNOW, that EVERY SINGLE INTERNATIONAL PHONE CALL is monitored by super computers, with programming to flag key words, phrases, or general "drift" of a conversation, and if anything whatsoever is flagged, then it goes up the chain to what eventually is a live person who will arbitrarily decide if your conversation was of ANY threat. You could be talking to your MOTHER in ENGLAND, about some money matter, or flight problems, or completely innocent things, and YOUR NAME and contact info goes into a database for FURTHER WATCHING.
It gets worse: Did you know, this PHONE EVESDROPPING, is now on every single call nationwide?
Yeah, you say I am crazy, and do not know what I speak about, but it does not stop THERE!
EVERY single email, is watched by super computer farms, for suspicious words, clauses, phrases, with programs which are intelligent to fish out so called "HIDDEN MESSAGES" cloaked in regular emails.
OK, thought that was it?
No, EVERY financial transaction you make, via DEBIT CARD, CHECK, CREDIT CARD, whatever, is also linked to a central programming interface to FIND out the so called hidden secret transfers of money for evil purposes...
BUT, IT LINKED INTO THE IRS, THE DEPT of STATE, the FBI and CIA, so if you transfer $x amount of money to your own account or a business, lets say you have two homes, one in New York, the other in Hawaii or Spain or the Caribbean or you choose the place, your private fiscal affairs are monitored and you are NOT living in the land of the FREE...
You are living in a Big Brother nation, just as George Orwell wrote many decades ago. Your every act, word, is being monitored.
Now THAT is what I call AMERICA, and boy, am I damm proud to be a part of a nation who will protect its nation and the world from damnation by all those terrorists who are out to destroy us.
Bet you didn't know, that it all started by the actions of the USA in the FIRST place? Yep, decades ago, we started to yank so poor nations citizens with what we deemed were essential actions, to get our oil contracts, which included the "Oliver North" scandal of DRUGS for WEAPONS which went to the MID-EAST to help the nations WE wanted in power overcome those we did NOT want. It came back to haunt us, look at the weapons which we poured into Iran and Iraq and Saudi Arabia, to get the hand-shakes WE wanted, for OIL.
This had NOTHING to do with national security, and still does not. It is now a cover for what we blundered into by pissing off 1/4 of the worlds population for HURTING a nation and NATIONS for our self imposed goals...
The people be dammed, we just had to get what we wanted.
If you think this post is full of it, then you are entitled to your opinion, but ask yourself first: Do YOU think you have really got the whole correct story from the nightly news on CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX?
Just go sign-up for DirecTV, and go to channel 375, the iLINK channel, a non-profit organization (global) which will include broadcast newcasts even in native language from ENGLAND, FRANCE, GERMANY, SPAIN, NORWAY, FINLAND, BELGIUM, ITALY, JAPAN, CHINA, AUSTRALIA, SOUTH AFRICA, plus... yep, you guessed it, even those lands which you think are the bad boys; Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Afganistan, India, on and on...
If you still feel the USA is on the right track AFTER educating yourself, then correct me if I am wrong on any point above!
What is important is this: Without free press (it is stifled by the Patriot Act now), we cannot know the facts and therefore cannot have intelligent, correct opinions about things.
THAT is why AMERICA was devoted to FREEDOM... There is no other way to get all the voices out, all the opinions, the facts, the theories, the eventual TRUTH...
THAT is the goal of a true Democracy, I hope it is not too late.
I wish us all good luck, as we will need it in this mess we have created, yes, WE as a nation disrupted the global stability more than any other nation in history. Funny, my father is a world history teacher. Bet you can guess his wonderment at what is going on in AMERICA and as a result of our actions, the world in general.
I hope and pray for a free press (remember that concept?) and freedom of speech, so we can get to the truth in this nation of ours, again.
You all better hope and pray that this happens too, or this world is gonna go to the devil, or hell, or shit, or something bad.
END of story.
So to conclude:
YOU DO NOT MIND, that you have NO privacy at all left? | |
| | |  joebarnhartPaxio evangelist
join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA | Re: There's a reason democracies can only last for so long Dude! Seriously... Take your meds.
I thought Sebastapol was a lot more laid back. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Milk His 15 Minutes Because after this story dies off, no one will ever want to hire this guy for any real work ever again.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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See 11 replies to this post | |
 BuriedCaesarIt's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX | And what makes him think... ...that "personally watching" the gutting of this ONE room in this ONE city will "stop" whatever it is that he thinks is happening? Does he really think that such surveillance of the ENTIRE internet worldwide is only being funneled through this one room?
Wow.
That's awfully short-sighted. But then again, he's young. He'll learn. And a new conspiracy theorist will be born.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
 ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23 | This country needs MORE whistleblowers They are America's unsung heroes. | |
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See 16 replies to this post | |
| | I worked at the-then Pacific Bell... There are stories I could tell, but point blank there's a lot that customers don't know. I applaud the guy for stepping forward. They were, and are, a corrupt organization. | |
| | | | Re: I worked at the-then Pacific Bell... yea I agree, I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading on this forum. This guy is literally putting his life on the line to come out and tell us what's going on. In this day and age I don't know too many people who are willing to do that much for a dollar amount, let alone for nothing. | |
| | BuriedCaesarIt's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX | said by ReVeLaTeD:There are stories I could tell, but point blank there's a lot that customers don't know. I applaud the guy for stepping forward. They were, and are, a corrupt organization. So, don't hold back - tell us what you know - maybe it'll help clean things up.
They should be brought to account for their actions, right? This guy was willing to step out and say something was wrong - so why not join him?
Tell us some stories! Bring them to the light so we can watch the cockroaches scurry. Expose the wrongdoing.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
| | | | | Re: I worked at the-then Pacific Bell... said by BuriedCaesar:said by ReVeLaTeD:There are stories I could tell, but point blank there's a lot that customers don't know. I applaud the guy for stepping forward. They were, and are, a corrupt organization. So, don't hold back - tell us what you know - maybe it'll help clean things up. They should be brought to account for their actions, right? This guy was willing to step out and say something was wrong - so why not join him? Tell us some stories! Bring them to the light so we can watch the cockroaches scurry. Expose the wrongdoing. 1 - it would serve no purpose. I don't work there, so it's no longer whistleblower, it would be libel.
2 - I wouldn't be believed in any case. Any flat joe could claim whatever.
3 - I don't care about fame, or glory.
4 - I simply state the fact, and it IS a fact: there is a lot about that organization that consumers wouldn't like if they were brought to light.
What I will tell you is already common knowledge: CWA reps are corrupt too...they side with SBC on just about every work dispute, to the point of "encouraging" you to "confess" because they "understand that the pressure is overwhelming". They don't defend employees, and you're forced to pay union dues even if you decline joining the union. That's corrupt. | |
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|  AnonProxyProxy of AnonPremium
join:2001-05-12
ß | bla bla bla.... | |
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 mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Typo "Wired AT&T Whilstleblower Interview"
Typo there Karl. | |
| | BuriedCaesarIt's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX | Re: Typo said by mrchris:"Wired AT&T Whilstleblower Interview" Typo there Karl. Nice. Somewhat obscure pun, there, too... or a sniglet, if you wish...per some of the other comments above about him milking it for whatever bucks he can get.
"Whilstleblower: Someone who blows their whistle, but only if it's worth their while..."
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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AnonProxyProxy of AnonPremium
join:2001-05-12
ß | Sounds like a terrorist to me... "I will not be satisfied with assurances from the government that this program is stopped or being overseen by a court."
That's terrorist code for doing some damage. | |
| | | B.S! I seriously get sick of people saying:
If you got nothing to hide, then what's the problem. First, there IS A PROBLEM.... For instance, say you are stopped for a traffic ticket.... A cop SHOULD just be able to pull over everyone and search their car right? You got nothing to hide, what's the problem. They should have no need to have cause, ask you for permission, or obtain a warrant to search. Once again, you HAVE nothing to hide... Anyone using this argument is TRULY UNAMERICAN in belief... The you got nothing to hide reasoning could be used to literally turn this country into a police state... You got nothing to hide in your house right? You sure? We're making random checks of people's houses just because we awant to make sure you aren't doing anything illegal. It's not that we suspect you are, but we're th e government.
Scenario 2: The same rationale that going after everyone to catch a few is a LOAD of CRAP. On that basis, say there is a protest and 5 percent out of 50,000 people are tossing bottles and being violent. Does that 5 percent warrant the police to break out automatic guns, and shoot everyone in the crowd? Once again, you stopped the bad 5 percent but also took out the 95 percent good ones...Hence, this rationale is without merit. Cops who handle such situations try to use non lethal force and direct it at those causing problems. I'm not saying there aren't cases where too much force is being used, I'm talking about ordinarily. You simply don't punish everyone to get to a few. That is EXACTLY what King George seems to be advocating though. INSTEAD of HOLDING the agencies accountable, people are letting this man go on a Salem Witch Hunt. Since we're too inept to do our job, why not watch everybody Big Brother Style. Then, if we find one or 2 bad apples, as will DEFINITELY happen... we can tout the success of this program... Since when does that argument hold any bit of water?
Scenario 3 - No attacks since 9/11.... Your argument? Under Bill Clinton, there were 2 attacks. One happened amonth after he took office, but no one can blame him on failing to prevent that. The first World Trade center happened in February 1993. He took office Jan 1993. Unlike Bush, he caught the culprits and held those accountable for the attack. Bush on the other hand has this Let's blame everyone and all theory. However, that is not my point here. The attack credited under clinton would be domestic Terrorism, Oklahoma City in 1995.... So let's assume Clinton had one Attack during his Presidentcy he should have prevented... So on that same basis people love to use, Clinton had no attacks in 5 years after that one. Obviously, Clinton then like Bush prevented alla nd future terrorism.
OR we can use our BRAIN and realize terrorism doesn't happen EVERY DAY in this country. The argument Bush prevented terrorism is a LOAD of CRAP. First off, look at th e Las Vegas Hotel recent. What happens instead of a "HIT" if that was a suicide bomber? That would NOT have been prevented. Obviously, people intent on causing chaos will succeed. However, most attacks these days are well thought out and take ample time to plan. Sure, I am not saying all the changes that have occured are bad. Better airport security, as much as I hate it, was a good idea. The No Fly list I do not agree with as it doesnt have a way to debate your name. It's good in theory but run by Bush Administration so it works POORLY. My point, to say no attacks have happened cause Bush is turning us into a Big Brother Country is a LOAD of CRAP..... Obviously, the only one's saying this are too STUPID to hold their elected officials accountable for actually making us safe... Why make them do their job when they can simply monitor everyone and tout how well they do it when they get lucky to find a few bad apples.
Here's another note. WorldWide Terrrosim is up 25 percent. Asia is the worst place followed by Middle East. Obviously, if Bush's war on terrorism was working, why are more places having problems? Could it be destabilizing the middle east is simply forcing these people to migrate elsewhere and create problems there? Let's face it, Iraq is a TOTAL MESS. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
| | I smell AT&T astroturfers damage control?
let's play a game everyone!
it's called "spot the AT&T employee" | |
| | | Mark Klein is a hero It takes guts to stand up to the government when they're doing wrong, particularly if it puts one's own health or future (employment, for example) in jeopardy. Not only does one have to fight the corporation at hand, but the nationalistic zealots who hum-drum the same spoon-fed nonsense the government (who had it's hand in the cookie jar) says.
Sufficed to say, since 9/11 I fear my own government more than the terrorists. bi0tech's analogy also very well explained my sentiments:
said by bi0tech:You can worry about the snakes in the trees, I'll worry about the 800lb gorilla in my back yard. | |
| | | No Attacks Ever Happened? No attacks since 9/11? Tell that to the friends and family of the students killed at Virgina Tech. | |
| |  ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC | Re: No Attacks Ever Happened? said by texans20:No attacks since 9/11? Tell that to the friends and family of the students killed at Virgina Tech. What on earth are you smoking?
Since when is some mental case (who was American BTW) associated with terrorists?
Yes, a whole bunch of people were killed in a senseless rampage but that in no way relates to what is going on in the Middle East.
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| | | | | Re: No Attacks Ever Happened? right, and all terrorists are middle eastern...  | |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | CIA Why hasn't the CIA killed this whistleblower yet? I mean, he is going to cause alot of problems, or they just add him to the nutbag box and know that he will never get anywhere with what he says (AKA no judge/politician will listen to him). | |
| | | Want a new government? FORCE your congress people onto some of the worst health plans like MEDICAID healthcare, or better yet, force them to DO WITHOUT!! and you'll soon have yourself a new set of people in the job!! Lots of the old guard birds will die off and their children will be scared from taking over from the parents to public office. | |
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Ric Romero Speaks
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