 majortom1029
join:2006-10-19 Lindenhurst, NY
1 edit | hmm Yes 400 down and up So cablevision can use the narad technology to give 1gig up and down links to each house via fiber.
Anyway technically so can comcast by bonding channels.
That seemed like a dont forget about us comment from verizon.
Also he stated the onts are capable of 400Mbs not what speeds they can produce without affecting the other people on that node.
Can you atleast report the story right. | |
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 |   nekote
join:2000-12-16 Hopkinton, MA
| 400Mbs, waaay past individual human info capacity Excluding archiving / backups / library purposes, there ain't no human brain that can usefully handle 400 Mbps for very long.
Verizon should up their bitwise connect speed to 100 Mbps - max. out today's typical LAN data rate.
Users would get a burst of 100 Mbps, followed by a long pause, as the brain ponders the new input.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of difference in the *aggregate* bandwidth *per person* consumed, over time.
Leastwise not until we get to 3D holodecks. -- Government is like fire - a dangerous servant and a fearful master - George Washington
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
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 |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA | Re: 400Mbs, waaay past individual human info capacity Or more than one computer... oh. | |
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 |  |  |   MysticGogeta The Robot Devil Premium join:2005-03-14 League City, TX clubs: | Re: 400Mbs, waaay past individual human info capacity Like if you have what in a average home taking a guess 2-3 computers? Thats still to much. In my house we run 3 computers on 5/384 and do just fine. -- Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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 |  |  |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: 400Mbs, waaay past individual human info capacity They wouldn't if each was trying to stream multiple HD feeds. In fact if they each tried to stream 1 there would be a huge problem.
Each family member over the age of 10 should have a computer IMO. You're doing a dis-service to your childs future employability if they don't have regular access to a computer. I guess if YOU want to be computer illiterate and just have your child on your computer all the time, so be it.. | |
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 |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| said by nekote :Excluding archiving / backups / library purposes, there ain't no human brain that can usefully handle 400 Mbps for very long. Verizon should up their bitwise connect speed to 100 Mbps - max. out today's typical LAN data rate. Users would get a burst of 100 Mbps, followed by a long pause, as the brain ponders the new input. Wouldn't make a whole lot of difference in the *aggregate* bandwidth *per person* consumed, over time. Leastwise not until we get to 3D holodecks. RAID fed P2P. Nuff said. | |
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 |  |  fiostv2
join:2007-05-15 Irving, TX
| This is why you may need atleast 200 MBPS:
5 HDTVs @ home, capable of recording 4 HD channels at the same time. Thats 20 HD channels peak load coming into the home. If you want good picture quality, each stream better be at 10 MPBS, MPEG4. Thats 200 MBPS gone right there for TV. | |
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 |   Jerm
join:2000-04-10 Richland, WA
| I think they got it right... Note the channel bonding notice at the bottom.
If you consider 2.4Gbit to 32 people @ 400mbit each on Fios theoretically that is an oversell ratio of 5.333(repeating of course).
What I think most people don't understand is this would be perfectly acceptable. That's actually a pretty low oversell ratio for residential service.
Think about this: Those of you getting 10-16mbit speeds on DOCSIS modems today remember you only have 38mbit shared between you and 30-300 friends (probably closer to the smaller number in this case). You don't even want to know the ratio on that.
And to talk a little more about the bonding - considering ~150mbps per channel for DOCSIS 3 that means they'd have to bond 16 channels to match Fios bandwidth (2.4Gbit) - all for only 32-64 customers. I don't think cable will ever put only 2-4 customers per channel.
When you compare Fios to cable, any way you cut it Fios comes out on top, until cable actually starts running fiber to your door also  | |
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 |  |  majortom1029
join:2006-10-19 Lindenhurst, NY | Re: I think they got it right... Yes but the article states he said the ont is capable of 400Mbps. EH did not say the node or anything Like that.
Thats what I am saying. The article doesnt state what the max of the service is. It only states what the Ont can handle. | |
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 |  |  |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: I think they got it right... said by majortom1029 :Thats what I am saying. The article doesnt state what the max of the service is. It only states what the Ont can handle. By definition of a GPON network, the ONT HAS to be able to handle 2.4 gbits. Existing BPON ONTS must handle 622 mbits. -- Go Colts | |
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 |  |  |  |  majortom1029
join:2006-10-19 Lindenhurst, NY | Re: I think they got it right... The article states though that the onts have a max of 400 though.
So if this guy is wrong then we cant trust this article then. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: I think they got it right... said by majortom1029 :The article states though that the onts have a max of 400 though. So if this guy is wrong then we cant trust this article then. I saw that too (I actually read the article after I posted that). I can guarantee you that on the fiber side of the ONT, they are seeing faster then 400mbits. BPON it self is rated at 622mbits download. Every ONT within a node sees all data, and filters it as appropriately based on the address of the ONT. Traffic destined for that ONT is let through while traffic destined for other machines is dropped. GPON works similar, just at faster rates.
There may be a limitation within the spec though that artificially restricts it down to 400mbits, but that sounds like an awfully round number to be a hard limit for what can be spit out the other end of the ONT. -- Go Colts | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   nekote
join:2000-12-16 Hopkinton, MA
| 622Mb to ONT; ? Mb to CAT5e for LAN First - multiple computers / people. Of course. Multi-users either gotta' share a single connection's bandwidth. Or get individual connections / fibers, for full bandwidth.
The ONT may well be sending and receiving at 622Mbps or 2.4Gbps. But what aggregate speed is given to the user's "LAN" side for the user's Internet access?
I argue for maximum LAN bps to minimize the real time needed to complete data transfers. Aggregate data transfer remains more or less fixed, even at a gazillion bps, when the data is being processed by the human brain. (Again, obviously, not for pure data file downloading / archiving / library building / ...)
Above some Mbps, the brain becomes the slowest network link in the information processing chain. -- Government is like fire - a dangerous servant and a fearful master - George Washington
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other forms of government. - Winston Churchill | |
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 |  |  |  ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16 Stratford, CT
| Right now FiOS is 622 Mbps... Of course that'll be for one customer 
In 5 or 10 years, todays speeds will be a be a joke and we'll look back and remember how fast we used to think it was. | |
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 |  |  rradina
join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Why do they have to run fiber to your door? If they get fiber to your block, there's a lot of bandwidth in the ole coax. Hell, if the telcos had fiber to your block, there's a lot of bandwidth in copper if it only has to carry a signal 1,000 feet. Imagine how much bandwidth is in coax if it only has to travel 1,000 feet? | |
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 |  |  |   sivran Long Live The Suite Premium join:2003-09-15 Arlington, TX clubs: | Re: I think they got it right... You sound like a UVerse ad  | |
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 |  |
 |   battleop
join:2005-09-28 00000
| The marketing monkeys will make it faster! "Twice as fast as FIOS (compared to 200Mb FIOS)"
I just can't see anyone NEEDING 400Mbps any time soon to their home. Heck even 100Mbps. At that they could start saying you are getting 1Gb but were exactly are you going to go to confirm you are always getting 1Gb?
Not that I would refuse it or try and use it up, but what exactly is the average home user going to do with 100Mb connection to the web? | |
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 |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY | Re: hmm Download HD DVDs (legit or not), and RAID fed P2P. | |
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 |  |  |   battleop
join:2005-09-28 00000 | Re: hmm No, that something the average BBR user would do. | |
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 |  |
 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| neither speed cap will be the norm in the next 3-5 years Unless Verizon intends to subdivide its current node structure using GPONS, 400mbits is not a realistic throughput at the consumer end, more of a backbone capable speed serving every 3-10 subscribers.
... and for that speed, you need a Wallet upgrade as well! | |
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 |   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey | Re: neither speed cap will be the norm in the next 3-5 years I agree this falls into the "who cares" category. My internet speeds havent even broken double digits. Unless Verizon is going to offer 400 speed, for $39 a month. | |
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  Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs:
·Embarq
| Back and forth All this childish "mine is bigger than yours" is really demeaning to the professional face they try to put on. My hope is that the two companies (and hopefully more to come) competitors have technologies that are competitive against each other. If one where to stomp the other that would be very bad for the consumer. | |
|
 |  JerryTongue
join:2003-04-01 Auburn, WA
| Re: Back and forth What really needs to happen is both sides need to get it in gear. Like the old saying goes you can only download as fast as the other end can upload. Well me being a gamer, being able to download at 150mbps means nothing if the other end is dead slow. Lets get the ball rolling on both ends and stop talking about who can do what. When you do what you say you can do then lets start talking about who is better than who. As of now I still see things the same as they were last year. Some of you as of now are able to enjoy the speed of Fios and I am very happy for that but like I said being a gamer it doesnt help if everyone else is still at a crawl. | |
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 axus
join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | heh I won't really be impressed until either of them offer those services in my area! Good to see competition, even if its only vaporware at the moment. | |
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  ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA | Talk is cheap I'll believe anything Comcast or Verizon says AFTER I see people getting it. Until then, they can talk all they want. | |
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 |   inteller Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK | Re: Talk is cheap no shit. 400mbps doesn't do me any good if I'm not using it. | |
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 |
 |  dr2500
join:2005-09-09 Lancaster, PA | Re: This makes me SICK! Don't click on Verizon links then 
Verizon FiOS Rocks! | |
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 |  |   phattieg
join:2001-04-29 Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: This makes me SICK! said by dr2500 :Don't click on Verizon links then  Verizon FiOS Rocks! dr2500, the anon poster is right. I am tired of Verizon news. I don't even have to click on it, it just piles up on the front page like the neighbors dog $h!+ on your morning news paper. It's not like we can do anything but complain about it, which is what we have done quite often the last few days. Can we pick on someone else now????? -- SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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 |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: This makes me SICK! said by phattieg :said by dr2500 :Don't click on Verizon links then  Verizon FiOS Rocks! dr2500, the anon poster is right. I am tired of Verizon news. I don't even have to click on it, it just piles up on the front page like the neighbors dog $h!+ on your morning news paper. It's not like we can do anything but complain about it, which is what we have done quite often the last few days. Can we pick on someone else now????? Who ATT? I can see the headlines "Uverse expanded to more limited areas" and "ATT discovers the benefit of copper". | |
|
 |   not logged in
@csulb.edu | said by Ream0 :
Most Verizon served areas can't even get DSL! Do you have any data that supports this, because I don't think it's the case. | |
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 |  |  See 6 replies to this post |
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 |   MysticGogeta The Robot Devil Premium join:2005-03-14 League City, TX clubs: | I can't get DSL in my area, and I'm served by Verizon! I wish they would stop talking about what that could do, and start deploying in more areas. -- Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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 |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
| said by Ream0 :
I'm getting tired of the Daily load of Verizon shit here on bbr! Most Verizon served areas can't even get DSL! If you can get FIOS...Then it's fine and dandy! Then SHUT UP! I'm getting tired of the Daily load of [service provided by some cable/telco company] shit here on bbr! Most customers can't get [some other providers service]. If you can get [service from some cable/telco company]...Then it's find and dandy! Then SHUT UP!
If you don't like to read about [service], don't click on the link to the article. No one forces you to read it. If we only talked about service that was deployed everywhere, we'd have a great time talking about 33.6 modems. -- Go Colts | |
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 |   batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Ream0 :
I'm getting tired of the Daily load of Verizon shit here on bbr! Most Verizon served areas can't even get DSL! If you can get FIOS...Then it's fine and dandy! Then SHUT UP! Cable shills that post anon should SHUT UP. | |
|
  Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17 Goleta, CA | and upstream will still be ignored I'd rather have 100 symmetrical than 400/66 (keeping with their current ratios)! | |
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 |  See 6 replies to this post |
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  Rick Premium,MVM join:2001-02-06 Waterbury, CT clubs: 
| I think Karl is just a little bit too much on the negative side in his expectations of when Comcast will roll this out.
News reports out the last few days sure sound as if they're VERY committed to making this happen. In fact, one I read said that in their view "2009 and 2010 was just too long".
If they're now looking at a cost of only a couple billion, which for them IS pocket change, what's to stop them from REALLY turning up the heat, REAL Soon?
We in the Comcast forum have seen how quickly they move on things. Powerboost is now everywhere already and even UL powerboost is rolling out at a very rapid pace.
Count Comcast out on this for a quick rollout?
I wouldn't be betting against them, that's for sure.
I think another, and perhaps bigger question is, what's going to now happen to Uverse in the face of all this? Depending on who's side you're on..Verizons or Comcasts, the fact is that both technologies simply leave Uverse in the dust.
How long can AT&T ignore this threat?
Will they soon be ditching UVERSE in favor of their own FTTH strategy?
One would think they almost have to now at this point.
Or risk being left so far behind, they might never catch up. -- The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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 |  See 8 replies to this post |
|
 brianiscool
join:2000-08-16 Miami, FL | Wow Wee! Ok, this is a start of a revolution. Next I want to see who makes the first move. | |
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  cypherstream Looking forward to the future of things. Premium,MVM join:2004-12-02 Reading, PA clubs:
| Throw in an SLA for that and say Bye Bye to DS3's Yeah so throw in a business class SLA and T1's, T3's, and the majority of your DS/OC connections become obsolete.
Seriously, we are paying a huge chunk of change for a partial T1 (512k sync) here at work. My god downloading anything at work sucks because I'm so used to the Comcast at home which bursts to 18/2 (falls back to 8/1 for larger transfers).
The only reason we can't go with a faster ISP is because we are a business and require business class service level agreement. So were stuck paying an exorbitant fee for crappy bandwidth.
Verizon's FIOS can take up the business sector by storm with these intense packages as long as they back them up with an SLA. The potential for them to make a killing is there. If we had FIOS available with T1 style guaranteed uptime I would jump on it for our company. Residential users won't need these types of speeds for many years.
And they are right, FIOS will only serve 14% of the US. Why should I have to relocate just to get FIOS. They can't build their network fast enough. It will be many years until it's footprint will be able to put a dent in the population. | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: Throw in an SLA for that and say Bye Bye to DS3's said by cypherstream :Yeah so throw in a business class SLA and T1's, T3's, and the majority of your DS/OC connections become obsolete. Seriously, we are paying a huge chunk of change for a partial T1 (512k sync) here at work. My god downloading anything at work sucks because I'm so used to the Comcast at home which bursts to 18/2 (falls back to 8/1 for larger transfers). The only reason we can't go with a faster ISP is because we are a business and require business class service level agreement. So were stuck paying an exorbitant fee for crappy bandwidth. The pied piper must be paid. Rape the businesses to subsidize the consumers.....
I should start a non-profit ISP, then I one morning I will find my brakes won't work while going downhill.  | |
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 |  nozzer
join:2004-06-25 Waltham, MA | FiOS is never going to offer an SLA.
Why doesn't your business simply back up its SLA'd T1 with a much faster non SLA line? | |
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  Michieru2 zzz zzz zzz Premium join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL
| ! Hmmm interesting, could this be a trend?
I am not referring to higher speeds, but the amount of bandwidth consumed. Are we migrating from high unlimited speeds towards more of a pay for the amount of traffic consumed on the pipe used?
The start of MB packages?
40GB per month for only 39.99! (at speeds of 400mbps/400mbps)
150GB per month for only 79.99! (at speeds of 400mbps/400mbps)
Verizon FiOS, we never stop working for you. | |
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 |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| Re: ! said by Michieru2 :Hmmm interesting, could this be a trend? I am not referring to higher speeds, but the amount of bandwidth consumed. Are we migrating from high unlimited speeds towards more of a pay for the amount of traffic consumed on the pipe used? The start of MB packages? 40GB per month for only 39.99! (at speeds of 400mbps/400mbps) 150GB per month for only 79.99! (at speeds of 400mbps/400mbps) Verizon FiOS, we never stop working for you. NOT IN AMERICA! -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Who needs 400 Mbps? One could in a year or even less, download every song ever recorded, every movie ever made in HD format, every TV show ever made in HD format.
400 Mbps = 1.5 PETAbytes in a year. One would need 1500 one TB hard drives to store all that data. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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  Bobcat Volvo sucks donkey balls Premium join:2001-02-04 Bedminster, NJ 1 edit | I don't want faster speeds... I want lower prices! | |
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 |  See 13 replies to this post |
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  jgkolt Premium join:2004-02-21 Lakewood, OH clubs:
1 edit | upstream give me symmetrical dammit. DOwnstream is nice but we need upstream too as consumers. and we are not going to spring for a $400+ t1/t3 line either so dont respond with that.
Also i have a noob question. Everyone is quoting fiber to be the end all solution, which has been around for a long time. IS there a technology that could replace it that is better or is fiber it as we see it today.
-- www.LakeSemaJ.com
---Powered by Verizon wireless Slingbox--- ---Free evdo???--- | |
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 |   DaMaGeINC The Lan Man Premium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC clubs: | Re: upstream Well, unless they make something faster than light, it will be it. We need to ditch RF communications completely. | |
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  TOPDAWG Premium join:2005-04-27 Midland, ON | When can I see it? So when we will see all this in action? To then who cares it's just a corporate pissing match. | |
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 |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ | Re: When can I see it? I see it more as Comparative Penile Dimensions Competition, which tends to be very vaguely diverting, but really does nothing for those who have to watch. | |
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 |  |  Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26 Spring Valley, CA | Re: When can I see it? also known as e-penis syndrome... | |
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 |  |  |   jamez818 please hold during the silence
join:2000-09-18 Sunland, CA | Re: When can I see it? lol. | |
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 VerizonCynic
join:2006-10-25 Lakewood, CA | Shut up already Yada Yada Yada...nanny nanny ha ha...Shut up already. Can someone get me something over 3mb for udder 40 per mo? Hello??? (I live 1.5 miles from the edge "promised 'Fios' land") | |
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 |   dude 400
@qwest.net | Re: Shut up already itll be great to go back from qwest to comcastic again ..only if....it really true to what they said if its is.. boy !!i will swtich.. but ill will be awille.. | |
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 |   yes 400
@qwest.net | i wonder.why is comcast getting into this act..when im on dsl with qwest and they readying their chops.. for the rollout of their system.if it ever comes?? where is qwest execs on this ??where is my 50-100mbps . qwest?? | |
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 |  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Shut up already said by yes 400 :
i wonder.why is comcast getting into this act..when im on dsl with qwest and they readying their chops.. for the rollout of their system.if it ever comes?? where is qwest execs on this ??where is my 50-100mbps . qwest?? Areas that *do* have qwest fibre, its capped at 5mbps[best package]. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for more than you already have on qwest DSL. -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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 |   DaMaGeINC The Lan Man Premium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC clubs: | Re: This sounds great...but..... And most sites ARE NOT connected to T1's Most sites are located in data centers with 100+mbps connections to the net. The internet would be a very slow place if most sites were using T1's. | |
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  insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | AT&T Why isn't AT&T jumping in with their ADSL2 offerings? 22mbits is a lot, right? | |
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 |   Tzale Proud Libertarian Conservative Premium join:2004-01-06 Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: AT&T said by insomniac84 :Why isn't AT&T jumping in with their ADSL2 offerings? 22mbits is a lot, right? ADSL2 sucks... It is a "hold over" technology that is only useful for under certain distances from the CO and then again 22mbps isn't really a lot... It might be for TODAY, but 5 years down the road that will be considered bottom of services. Not to mention sheer costs to deploy it, DSL and copper is NOT the answer. FIBER is the answer.
-Tzale | |
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 |  |   insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | Re: AT&T I was ripping on the fact that verizon and cable companies are throwing out all these future plans for high bandwidth, and AT&T(the biggest phone company) has nothing. | |
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 |  |  |   MysticGogeta The Robot Devil Premium join:2005-03-14 League City, TX clubs: | Re: AT&T But wait they have a U-Verse program.. that kinda sucks.. | |
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 |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| said by insomniac84 :Why isn't AT&T jumping in with their ADSL2 offerings? 22mbits is a lot, right? 4 years ago maybe. Cablevision, Verizon and Cox have 30mbit package and they aren't distance sensitive like DSL. -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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  Tzale Proud Libertarian Conservative Premium join:2004-01-06 Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| FIOS 400mbps See? Competition is thriving in America... FIOS is really causing an uproar for American broadband. It's nice to know they can push it up to those speeds if and when needed, but for now it isn't really needed...
That is simply an amazing amount of bandwidth... I think Verizon is wise in providing 15-30/5 for now as the "standard" package that most people get.
-Tzale | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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 jaseinatl
join:2006-01-17 Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast
| What they all need to do is dump this paradigm I'd put my money on a combination of new plastic magnetics and a box from TimeDomain. Combined, they could provide UWB data access to every square inch of every major city with no limitations on vegetation patterns, fibre placement/availability, building materials, etc. etc. etc.
Not to mention you could use your timedomain box to see through things!
Though I suppose it's just a dream, it'd still be nice.
jase | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY | Re: What they all need to do is dump this paradigm How about wormhole fiber? | |
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 |  |  jaseinatl
join:2006-01-17 Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast
| Re: What they all need to do is dump this paradigm I had one of those {worm fiber} once... A quick shot of penicillin and my worm was cured. Wrong forum, but glad I could help. 
No but seriously, does anyone know why the Timedomain UWB internet access idea got scrapped? It really is weird that the Military has begun licensing the technology to find eathquake survivors, but nobody has introduced UWB for the business or private sector... Anybody know anything about this?
-jase | |
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