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duh
@comcast.net
| Re: Fools With Money Considering how much real estate goes for in metro DC, especially in Northern Virginia, anyone who falls for this sort of scam has no one to blame but themselves. You would think someone would think a little before plunking down $600K or more for a house.
THINK A LITTLE...
we're talking about the general public and their computer/ Internet literacy level... | |
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| What the hell kind of comment is that? So anybody that pays 600k or more for a house is dumb? Or are you mad because people have that much money to spend? Maybe we should tax them more because they have more money (oh wait, we already do).
It's called "cost of living" dude and it varies location to location. That same 600k house in the DC area probably goes for 2m in Santa Monica.
They do have to blame themselves if they knew about the costs and restrictions of the broadband services before they bought the house. If they didn't know until they started getting bills then they were simply scammed.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: Fools With Money said by Lumberjack  :What the hell kind of comment is that? A very smart and astute one, just like all of my other comments.
said by Lumberjack :So anybody that pays 600k or more for a house is dumb? Or are you mad because people have that much money to spend? Maybe we should tax them more because they have more money (oh wait, we already do). Which post of mine made such claims?
said by Lumberjack :It's called "cost of living" dude and it varies location to location. That same 600k house in the DC area probably goes for 2m in Santa Monica. Wow! No kidding? You know, I had NO IDEA that the cost of housing varies by location!
said by Lumberjack :They do have to blame themselves if they knew about the costs and restrictions of the broadband services before they bought the house. If they didn't know until they started getting bills then they were simply scammed. See? I knew at the end, you'd see things my way.
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04192377
BooB Man
Premium
join:2007-04-07
Newark, DE
| said by Lumberjack :What the hell kind of comment is that? So anybody that pays 600k or more for a house is dumb? Or are you mad because people have that much money to spend? Maybe we should tax them more because they have more money (oh wait, we already do). It's called "cost of living" dude and it varies location to location. That same 600k house in the DC area probably goes for 2m in Santa Monica. Right on. I can afford a well over a 600K house. I'm you cleared that up that we well to do individuals are not dumb.  | |
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NPGMBR
join:2001-03-28
Arlington, VA
| But honestly, who thinks about who their entertainment provider will be when buying a brand new home. Buyers were probaly too excited about having a NEW home and far more concerned with packing up and moving and getting financing and everything else that comes along with buying a home and moving. Sure people should read documents before they sign them but we know thats not the reality but I agree that the buyer has no one to blame but themselves. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Fools With Money said by NPGMBR :But honestly, who thinks about who their entertainment provider will be when buying a brand new home. For most people a home is one of the biggest investments they will ever make. I know when I purchased mine I lost count of how many hours I spent researching neighborhoods, school systems, broadband availability, crime reports, commuting routes and other such things. Any homebuyer is putting up a ton of money in the process, so researching the purchase as much as possible beforehand to ensure that a house meets one needs is vital.
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NPGMBR
join:2001-03-28
Arlington, VA
| Re: Fools With Money Yeah that applies to you but not to the majority. Do you honestly think that everyone else would think that they need to see who their entertainment provider will be. It's my GUESS that most people just look to see whats available in the area and leave it at that not expecting that there will be restrictions on which providers they can use. | |
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| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Fools With Money said by NPGMBR :Yeah that applies to you but not to the majority. Do you honestly think that everyone else would think that they need to see who their entertainment provider will be. It's my GUESS that most people just look to see whats available in the area and leave it at that not expecting that there will be restrictions on which providers they can use. Anyone who does not do their homework, especially when buying something as big as a house, deserves to get taken. Homeowner association policies need to be stated when someone puts down that much money. This service is the same as an association fee.
When I bought my house, I made sure there was no home owner's association or group. Most tend to be problem makers rather than problem solvers. | |
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NPGMBR
join:2001-03-28
Arlington, VA
| Re: Fools With Money I understand your point but what I'm saying is that with everything that goes into making that purchase decision, seeing who the service provider is might be one of those things that gets bumped to the bottom of the list and forgotten. Just because it's very important to you does not mean it holds equal importance to others. | |
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| | | | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Fools With Money said by NPGMBR :I understand your point but what I'm saying is that with everything that goes into making that purchase decision, seeing who the service provider is might be one of those things that gets bumped to the bottom of the list and forgotten. Just because it's very important to you does not mean it holds equal importance to others. Everything needs to be taken into consideration when buying a house: schools, roads, nearby shopping, traffic, cost, etc. If someone puts an internet service provider to the bottom of the list, then they need to live with the consequences of their choices.
As I said before, I weighed everything when I bought my house. I weighed the pros and cons and decided to buy the house.
I understand DC houses are outrageous but people need to do research when dumping as much money as they do on a house.
I even had a friend remove the antenna restrictions from his contract. The homeowner's association told him they would sue. He told them he would have both them and the developer (who approved the waiver) in court and, either way, someone was buying his house at full value. He never heard another thing about it. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by moonpuppy :When I bought my house, I made sure there was no home owner's association or group. Most tend to be problem makers rather than problem solvers. I feel the same way... but HOAs do work for some people.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| Broadband competition is a big factor in my decision. Personally, I think $150/mo for symmetrical 100Mbit fiber and TV is a good deal and would take it. But to someone else, who maybe took out more mortgage than they could afford, it may be a large burden.
Also, if the service becomes unreliable, they have no competition to switch to. Monopolies have problems, thats why we don't like them. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Fools With Money Or to someone who does not want TV or internet service (or wants satellite television), the $150 would be essentially a charge for nothing.
I think the real issue though is having access cut off to competing TV services. That $150/month does not include any premium digital services and one digital box. I could not find any record of the fees anywhere for premium services. | |
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| | | dmconwa
join:2007-04-19
Albuquerque, NM
| I guarantee you that this is part of their HOA agreement. They pay for the service through their dues. If they didn't pay attention to the CC & R that is their own problem, and I'm sure they could get satellite if they wanted. It just means that they would pay for that on top. As far as Verizon and Comcast are concerned I'm sure they didn't run any facilities to the development once it learned of the agreement. Why bother making the investment. | |
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DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA | If people actually had the money they wouldnt be taking out tons of ARMs and trashing the economy. | |
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Re: Fools With Money said by DrModem :If people actually had the money they wouldnt be taking out tons of ARMs and trashing the economy. ARM loans crash the economy?
If you really want to put the economy into high gear then support the FairTax. It's not perfect but it's damn sure better than the IRS system.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
| Re: Fools With Money said by Lumberjack :ARM loans crash the economy? If you really want to put the economy into high gear then support the FairTax. It's not perfect but it's damn sure better than the IRS system. Yes. People are buying homes that they can't actually afford. When interest rates rise on the ARM they are screwed. This hurts not only themselves but the entire housing market by driving up supply and driving down prices for those who want to sell. This has been happening big time here in Michigan.
Regarding the fair tax you are right, however it will never happen (especially with a Democrat controlled Congress) because too many people are dependent on the current system. Think of all the IRS agents, tax accountants and H&R Block employees who would lose their jobs if the tax system was simplified.
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We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Fools With Money said by nixen :And tell me why it is that people that try to buy housing close to their jobs, so that they aren't having to commute 60+ miles and 2-3 hours each way every day of the work week are fools? Hello? Go to any DC area realtor's website and you will find plenty of housing in the price range specified. Not all of it is in HOAs which restrict broadband availability. You could theoretically buy a house across the street from this area and get FIOS or cable modem service and pay the same price you'd pay for a house in that HOA.
If broadband is that important to someone, then they need to assess if a house meets those needs before they sign the paperwork... not after.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Fools With Money said by pnh102 :said by nixen :And tell me why it is that people that try to buy housing close to their jobs, so that they aren't having to commute 60+ miles and 2-3 hours each way every day of the work week are fools? Hello? Go to any DC area realtor's website and you will find plenty of housing in the price range specified. Not all of it is in HOAs which restrict broadband availability. Hello? Have you ever actually tried buying housing in NoVA? Many areas, particularly places like Loudon Cty., if you want to buy a house, you're stuck with an HOA (ever wonder why so many houses out there are all beige?).
said by pnh102 :You could theoretically buy a house across the street from this area and get FIOS or cable modem service and pay the same price you'd pay for a house in that HOA. Nice theory. Too bad you haven't got a freaking clue on what reality is.
said by pnh102 :If broadband is that important to someone, then they need to assess if a house meets those needs before they sign the paperwork... not after. Did you read the original article, or even the summary posted? It's not whether they want other service it's the fact that whether they use a different service provider or want no service at all, they are stuck paying these bozos $150/month (today's price - who knows what it will be year-over-year).
To be honest, given how some of the HOAs in NoVA act, it makes me wonder how they've flown under the legal radar all these years.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Fools With Money said by nixen :Hello? Have you ever actually tried buying housing in NoVA? Many areas, particularly places like Loudon Cty., if you want to buy a house, you're stuck with an HOA (ever wonder why so many houses out there are all beige?). So you are telling me that every single house for sale in Loudoun county is in an HOA. Every single solitary house? Every last square inch of residential real estate is under an HOA? Or more particularly, an HOA which restricts broadband access? Every single house is like that?
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elkq
join:2002-03-09
Monterey, CA | Re: Fools With Money Exactly what is your record for picking fights in one thread?
It is probably not necessary to berate every single poster. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Fools With Money said by elkq :Exactly what is your record for picking fights in one thread? It is probably not necessary to berate every single poster. I don't see why they are making a fuss. I am fully cognizant of the fact that housing in the DC metro area is very costly. My point still is, if you are going to put down that kind of money on a house, and broadband is a big deal for you, then take the time to find out if the house in question meets your needs in that regard.
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Re: Fools With Money said by pnh102 :said by elkq :Exactly what is your record for picking fights in one thread? It is probably not necessary to berate every single poster. I don't see why they are making a fuss. I am fully cognizant of the fact that housing in the DC metro area is very costly. My point still is, if you are going to put down that kind of money on a house, and broadband is a big deal for you, then take the time to find out if the house in question meets your needs in that regard. I think it's just how you worded your post. You imply that anybody that spends over 600k on a house is a moron. Perhaps if you qualified it a little better with your real argument it wouldn't have been interpreted that way.
In any case I don't disagree that people should research their home purchases but at the same time I think it's dumb that you can be forced to pay for something you don't use. For example, if I were to turn my water service off I wouldn't have to pay for it and I don't get it. It sounds like in this case if I don't want the service and I don't get it I still have to pay for it.
My HOA are appearance Nazis and nothing more. In my opinion that's all HOAs should do to protect the neighborhood's housing values. Why the hell would an HOA even want to be involved in a forced service like broadband is pretty dumb and ignorant and now I'll just have to take more note of HOA rules before my next move.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | i have heard some bad things about some HOAs, as in some want lawns that look as good as a pro level golf course(ie no mowing every week isnt enough)
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
·AT&T Southwest
| ...used to make sense Back when this was the only way you'd ever get FTTH -- exclusive deals made sense. If this site really has a choice between 2 FTTH providers -- then it starts to not look like such a good option anymore (I wonder if they really have 2 choices)
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Give up all hope for a better past. | |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | Deed Restriction? It sounds like the HOA gave an exclusive concession to a provider and is enforcing it through deed restrictions. Provided that each homeowner was aware of this arrangement at closign, I don't see anything wrong with it. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Deed Restriction? said by Enlightener :It sounds like the HOA gave an exclusive concession to a provider and is enforcing it through deed restrictions. Provided that each homeowner was aware of this arrangement at closign, I don't see anything wrong with it. There are only two ways around these types of restrictions. A state law prohibiting exclusive contracts like this in the law regarding home owners associations or PUDs(Planned Unit Developments). Or a Congressional law like the one that made most deed restrictions invalid where sat dishes were concerned. Getting a state law changed would be more likely to be passed. But in either case, it is unlikely action is a priority for the legislatures. Especially because these people signed the deed knowing of the rule.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: Deed Restriction? however HOAs have been thwacked by the FCC(DBS dishes), and i doubt a HOA could refuse to let Verizon into the devlopment if Verizon has a franchise with that town(unless it is a gated private community, even then it might be shaky).
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: Deed Restriction? Why not? If the HOA is not publicly owned (i.e., no ROW), then why should the privately owned community be mandated to allow entrance of any other commercial entity without their consent? | |
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| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Deed Restriction? I agree, companies cannot lay cable where they do not have a right of way. Franchise agreements are their way of obtaining a right-of-way, but there's no law mandating a franchise agreement. It is in the communities best interest to provide this right of way (as long as its not obnoxious), but developer-controlled HOAs are not looking out for the communities members interest. They made an agreement with OpenBand that forbids competition, so future HOA groups are stuck with it. Buyer beware. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Same thing in Orange County with Cox In Ladera Ranch, the association dues (which I believe are something like $140 something/mo) include Cox HSI which has a 40GB/mo usage limit so if you want DSL or something else you end up paying twice. | |
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KJ
@cox.net
| Not that uncommon This sort of exclusive deal is more common than most people think. I live in a development that is much larger than the one cited and here the developer made an exclusive deal with Cox to be the internet provider. The fee for Cox's premium tier internet service is hidden within the normal HOA monthly fee. So, it's impossible to know what we're paying. Residents that do not own a computer, are still paying for Cox internet, they just don't know how much. Cox conveniently enough, also provides cable tv service, but that is not included in HOA fees. Residents must contract and pay for that on their own. Cox has landline phone service too and that is the only real beef that I have with the arrangement. When I purchased this house, there were two separate lines coming up to the demarc, one for Cox and one for Pacbell/SBC/ATT. The builder had so conveniently pre-connected the house wiring to the Cox line, giving an unfair advantage to Cox over the other guys. After seeing this, I made sure to purchase phone service from the other guys. To this day, it's quite rare to find anyone living in this development that is not using Cox for telephone service, since the developer biased the homebuyer's decision by making it far easier and faster for homeowners to get working phone service from Cox. To get non-Cox phone service required that Pacbell/SBC/ATT roll a truck to the home and move the house wiring from the Cox side to their side at the demarc. I wouldn't call that a level playing field. Furthermore, Cox still has an install fee for phone service, even though it's already setup. If that wasn't enough, Cox offered their triple play install, internet/cable/phone for free if you took all 3. If you only wanted cable, you had to pay for installation, though it actually was less work for them. Interestingly enough, even if you didn't want Cox internet service and wished to go with DSL, no DSL provider bothers to offer that for this development, since Cox is already leveraged in.
I wonder what happens if a resident violates TOS for Cox internet and gets disconnected. Since no other provider is available, that means no service. Well I suppose you could go with dialup? To add insult to injury, they'd still be paying the hidden fee for internet service as part of the HOA fees.
KJ | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| run it themselves! New development?
Why didn't the developers just run fiber to each home, and then to a building on grounds? Make a mini meet-me room, and buy your bandwidth direct. House 139 wants verizon? Ok...patch them through. 243 wants AT&T? patch them in! | |
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Vertickle
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
·Knology
| Re: run it themselves! said by fcisler :New development? Why didn't the developers just run fiber to each home, and then to a building on grounds? Make a mini meet-me room, and buy your bandwidth direct. House 139 wants verizon? Ok...patch them through. 243 wants AT&T? patch them in! Because that would take a logical thinker, something we seem to be lacking these days.  | |
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Shack
join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN | Re: run it themselves! Because that would cost the developer money, where as the exclusive right makes them money. I would not buy in an addition with this arrangement, glad I don't have to deal with an HOA. | |
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Vertickle
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL | Re: run it themselves! Ah, money...
Isn't it funny how money always pushes logic out the window... | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY | actually... isn't it still against the law because their making them pay for services their not receiving? i heard that somewhere its a federal law | |
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| jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: actually... Let me know when you find that law -- I'll save about 65% on my property tax bill by not paying the school portion, since we don't have any kids.  | |
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| | emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX
| Re: actually... No S*&t!
Peaves the hell out of me.
I think we all need to pay something to support our schools, but if you don't have any kids in school, you should get a 50% break.
wig
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jkb246
join:2000-03-18
Newark, NJ | Service sounds great to me They provide everything from Cable to alarm services. Sure you could probably get some of these services cheaper, but again you had to hopefully read the association rules before you signed on the dotted line | |
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forward1
join:2006-10-19
Sterling, VA | Part 15 rules? Even with exclusivity, doesn't Part 15 rules override that and can't a WISP step in legally? Broadcasting from outside the community of course and having mesh points set up within the house? | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: Part 15 rules? i think a WISP would be protected the same way as a DBS service.
Comcast and Verizon are not legally permitted onto the devlopment's land. however the HOA cant prohibit someone from subscribing to a WISP, i bet if a small external antenna is needed that its mounting is protected by the FCC.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by forward1 :Even with exclusivity, doesn't Part 15 rules override that and can't a WISP step in legally? Broadcasting from outside the community of course and having mesh points set up within the house? No, Part 15 means they are unlicensed and don't interfere with anyone but must take inteference from everyone.
Dishes fall under OTA (Over The Air) antenna rules. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | Bwhhhhhhhaaaaaaa. I love it.
Did anyone read the article. The deeds stipulate the Home Owners Association will have a majority of OpenBand cronies on the board for 20 years.
The Phone Company evil, everybody else good. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | exclusive deals=lower real estate values consumers don't want to be ripped off so, some of these homes will have to sell for le$$ due to the fact that the developers negotiated an exclusive contract which MUST be disclosed prior to sale of the homes... so they $CREWED themselves. | |
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MrBentor
join:2003-02-18
Seattle, WA | Refuse to pay. Simple as that. Refuse to pay. If you are not using their service. Refuse to pay. Period the end. Where is the problem? | |
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| emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX
| Re: Refuse to pay. The problem is when you violate your HOA they take you to court, make life an expensive hassle, and maybe get you thrown out of your house.
HOA suck. Simple as that.
HOA are almost NEVER good for homeowners. They should have no power except to make sure people don't leave dead cars in their yards and don't put the garbage out three days ahead of time.
wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox | |
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wilbilt
Pronto Resurrected
Premium
join:2004-01-11
Oroville, CA
| Re: Refuse to pay. said by emptywig :HOA suck. Simple as that. HOA are almost NEVER good for homeowners. They should have no power except to make sure people don't leave dead cars in their yards and don't put the garbage out three days ahead of time. Agreed. It's nice to have some level of standards for home and yard maintenance. However, when the HOA starts dictating whom you must buy services from, it's like a legislated monopoly.
They have tried and failed to outlaw satellite dishes and TV antennas, because doing so is illegal. It seems that forcing homeowners to buy service from a certain provider when there are others available would be illegal as well.
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We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us. | |
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