Dad Rages Against Comcast 911 Users debate reliability of VoIP 911 yet again... A several-month-old blog post tells the tale of a supposed Comcast customer whose 911 VoIP service failed him during his child's early morning seizure. The post has fostered debate in our Comcast forum and at digg over the reliability of VoIP as your only 911 option, whether the blog post is real and how much liability (if any) Comcast has in the event of VoIP 911 failure. For the record, the Comcast Digital Voice residential subscriber agreement (pdf) notes that Comcast is not liable for service outages, disruption or the customer's inability to contact emergency personnel.
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  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Unless it meets rigorous Federal standards.
Then no matter the fine print people will have less confusion that VoIP 9-1-1 ain't the same as POTS 9-1-1.
When I had Vonage and tested 9-1-1 after one of these DSLR articles, I got the front desk number of our local Sheriff's office which is closed at night. Funny, the recording said if this is an emergency or are witnessing a crime in progress, hang up and dial 9-1-1. | |
|  |  HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:1 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Better be careful "testing" your city's 911 system. | |
| | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Turns out I "didn't" test our city 9-1-1 system, but rather a desk Sgt's answering machine.  | |
| | | | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:1 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" That's not the point... Do you have a landline ?? If so, why don't you "test" that 911 works a few different times of the day. Let me know how it goes. | |
| | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" I have never read about instances of POTS 9-1-1 ringing into the janator closet of a police station. If I read about widespread and systemic problems of POTS 9-1-1 not being routed properly, I would certainly test it.
If the 9-1-1 call center operator gets pissed because I took 10 seconds of their time, to bad, let them fine me. I'm forced to pay into the system...I'm going to know whether it works like it's supposed to. | |
| | | | | |  dispatcher21911 Where is your emergency?
join:2004-01-22
united state
kudos:1 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" 10 seconds might not be a problem, call 10 times, you will be going to jail. | |
| | | | | | |  Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" he stated he tested his 911 once after a report, someone else jumped the gun and suggested he try it 10times to see what happens. | |
| | | | | | | | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:1 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" My point was, some things you don't or shouldn't "test". As scary as it is, you have to trust that it just works. How many people test a fire sprinkler system ?? How 'bout draining the oil from their car to see if the oil light comes on ?? 
When 911 service was first started, did it work 100% ?? I suspect not... And we're dealing with POTS back then. If 911 is of any importance to anyone, take your chances with VOIP and similar phone services. They're still in their infancy and still have bugs to work out. You'd think E911 would be an absolute priority though. | |
| | | | | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
2 edits | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" WRONG!
Of course fire sprinker system installers test their systems after installation. Same with alarm monitoring systems. And I run little chance of death if the oil drains out of my car. Maybe a $5000 Haz-Mat fine, but that is why I use a new washer and a torque wrench on my drain plug instead of a calibrated wrist.
Sorry. If Verizon, Vonage, Time Warner, or anyone else that I have shows a pattern of problems with routing 9-1-1 calls to the 9-1-1 call center...it's gonna get a quick test and if it fails they're gone. | |
| | | | | | | | | | quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
kudos:2 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" When I test our security system, it sends a test signal to Brinks and waits for a response. That's a lot different than "testing" by intentionally triggering the alarm or pushing one of the emergency buttons and waiting for the police to show up. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" A correct way would be to arm the system, trigger all sensors if possible or rotate weekly, wait for the call center to get it and call you, you can put it into test mode so their people know you're testing. This is not a complete test because you're not having the call center call the police but that is different. I haved tested my 911 with sunrocket and vonage a couple time. I recommend everyone does. All operators that I have spoken to understood completely and were very curtious about it. | |
| | | | | | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" My alarm has a self diagnostic mode...supposedly. According to my ViaTalk call logs it also dials in every day. I don't know why. Maybe to check line quality. When the alarm company found out that I was using VoIP they said they were going to make some changes, maybe this was one of them. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Still if you're not testing a sensor but an actual trigger then it is not a full test. nextalarm.com monitors over the internet through real polling (every 5 min) so if your line gets cut then you will be notified. I also pay them about $11 a month, interested? | |
| | | | | | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" I don't know what else it tests. The only backup it has is cellular backup. It's not connected to my home network or anything. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
 ·Bright House
| I say test it only if you're not resourceful enough to actually have the number that the 911 call goes to. Lets be real folks, whether or not it works, it is more reliable, and a better idea, to just have the direct number stuck to the phone, or programmed to the number 9 key on your phone. Sorry, but the 911 system is so old, and is in major need of upgrade. The reason this can be a "hidden" problem is because of number portability. If someone ported a number to another carrier, and that carrier managed to re-assign it without releasing it back to the original office/carrier, then you can have a problem with the switches records. Since VoIP is not physically terminating to the persons house, you can have a situation where the info never reaches the CAMA trunk to get the correct billing info to the 911 operator. All of "the big boys" in VoIP have had at least 1 issue with it, but even better, the landline providers have had it happen too, so you'd be a fool NOT to keep it posted JUST INCASE.
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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| | | | | | | |  SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West
 ·Verizon Wireless..
| Most emergency communications centers have, or should have policies to conduct a test of a phone line's ability to access the 911 network. My former ECC's policy was to call the non emergency number and request a test "slot". The dispatcher would make sure there were resources to conduct the test, get the callers information *name, number, address...* and then tell the caller to conduct the test.
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Para Bellum!! | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" I live in a town of 10,000 people. I called the non emergency number and ask to speak to the chief of police. I told him we have VOIP in our town and it's new so I would like to test the e911 service. He didn't have a problem with it at all. I called 911 and the call work fine. Came up with my name and address. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by captme:I live in a town of 10,000 people. I called the non emergency number and ask to speak to the chief of police. I told him we have VOIP in our town and it's new so I would like to test the e911 service. He didn't have a problem with it at all. I called 911 and the call work fine. Came up with my name and address. Most jurisdictions tolerate a brief, well-stated test of a new phone number. Most will cooperate by verifying your Caller ID information. IME tests of numbers assigned to non-ILEC customers is of vital importance, because of the ILECs' tendency to sabotage Caller ID data to make the competition look bad.
The rules vary, depending on where you are. 911 call centers that have a problem with frivolous calls tend to have stricter rules in reaction to previous abuse. If in doubt, check with your local government. | |
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| | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Exactly. This isn't about harrassing and disrupting 9-1-1 operators (does it work yet, does it work yet, does it work yet). It's a 1 time thing for a provider (in my case Vonage) who had shown a pattern of not properly forwarding 9-1-1 calls. | |
| | | | | | | |  exocet_cmBuckle up, it's the lawPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" "Testing" the system is ok, but use it VERY sparingly and by sparingly I mean maybe once every few years.
If you dial 9-1-1 simply tell the operator that this is a Non-Emergency Call, you have new phone service, and you wanted to make sure you can get through to 9-1-1 in the event of an emergency. Most, if not all, 9-1-1 operators are nice (at least when I call they are).
In any event DO NOT hang up if 9-1-1 goes through and DO NOT "test" the system often. If you hang up and the operator can't get back through the police will come-a-knockin. If you call multiple times or prank call (or the operator thinks you are prank calling) that will warrant the police to visit as well.
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"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
Ma Blog »www.johndball.com
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" That's true. Misdialed "911" by mistake and said "ooh, sorry, misdialed."
3 minutes later, Sgt. Stadanko shows up asking questions. What a wonderful world live in! | |
| | | | | | | | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by rocco_fanucc:That's true. Misdialed "911" by mistake and said "ooh, sorry, misdialed." 3 minutes later, Sgt. Stadanko shows up asking questions. What a wonderful world live in! There have been many cases when the victim of a violent crime manages to break free from their attacker just long enough to find a phone and dial 911. In some cases, the attacker rips the phone cord from the wall, disconnecting the call. In others, the armed assailant convinces the victim to say it was a mistake and then hang up.
In the latter case, that's often the last recording of that person's voice. This is why the police investigate all improperly terminated 911 calls. If all is well, no big deal. If not, that policy could save your life one day. | |
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| | | | |  tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
1 edit | said by ColorBASIC:I have never read about instances of POTS 9-1-1 ringing into the janator closet of a police station. If I read about widespread and systemic problems of POTS 9-1-1 not being routed properly, I would certainly test it. If the 9-1-1 call center operator gets pissed because I took 10 seconds of their time, to bad, let them fine me. I'm forced to pay into the system...I'm going to know whether it works like it's supposed to. And you have every right too. People by VHF-FM marine radios for their boats. To think they never turn them on or do a radio check on Ch16/156.8mhz? When your boat is sinking, and you turn on your radio to call for help, it's a little late to find out it needs a antenna to work or power.. But hey.. at least the pretty box it came in said not only could to talk to the U.S. Coast Guard, it also had Canadian channels too.  | |
| | | | | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Ch. 16 A good point. Still, that's no excuse to transmit from onshore.  | |
| | | | | | | | tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | Re: Ch. 16 said by Time4aNAP:A good point. Still, that's no excuse to transmit from onshore. I had to laugh.. Had a guy call in once on his marine radio. He was stranded on the side of the road, pulling his boat to the marina no doubt, and his truck broke down. He didn't call a Mayday or anything but called up on ch16, switch him over to Ch22A where he explained his situation. We called a tow truck and the sheriff for the guy. The point is, you expect something to work, it's best to test it before you need it. Just a suggestion. I seem to recall that the setup instructions I got from voiceeclipse said to test 911 service once I hooked up my system. | |
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| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by Hall:That's not the point... Do you have a landline ?? If so, why don't you "test" that 911 works a few different times of the day. Let me know how it goes. You are allowed to place a test 911 call as long as it's brief and you notify them in advance you are performing a "911 test." HOWEVER, some local cities want you to contact the non-emergency side first to ask for proper clearance of 911 testing AND/OR to find out when they want you to perform the test.
Doing it over and over, however, .. not smart.
... I love the so-called experts around here. | |
| | | | | | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:1 | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by fiberguy:You are allowed to place a test 911 call as long as it's brief and you notify them in advance you are performing a "911 test." That sounds reasonable though how do you notify them ?? Calling the non-emergency number will do what ?? Maybe they can suggest a "slow" time to call or that you need to say a certain thing right off the start...
I just keep remembering dialing 911 on the interstate (in the middle of town) trying to reach the highway patrol to report a drunk driver or something. I was routed to the city of Dayton's 911 center and the 911 bitch operator gave me shit about it being a "non-emergency". I started to reply "Look, I'm trying to reach...." and stopped, knowing I'd "lose" the argument (signs along the interstate say to dial 911 to reach the highway patrol). Who knows the non-emergency number for cities when you're just driving through ?? | |
| | | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
4 edits | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" You never know. In California we have a similar sign program. On Cal-Trans electric message signs over the freeways and during holidays (like New Year's Eve) they put up messages saying stuff like "Report Drunk Drivers Dial 911". We also have permanent blue highways signs saying to call 9-1-1 to report drunk drivers.
They even got an award for the program »www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/news/···7pr5.htm | |
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| | | | | | When I used to install PBX systems I'd dial 911 everytime before leaving. I would just quickly advise them I'm a phone man and I'm testing a new install and thanks for your time. I always recieved a warm "you're welcome" It's the folls that dial 911, tell the operator that something is wrong when it's not that are the problem, a quick test call is no big deal. | |
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| | | | | Before testing 911, I called the general information number of the police department and requested permission to call 911 for a test and asked what would be a good time. They were completely fine with that.
Stu | |
| | | | |  hhawkmanPremium
join:2001-02-08
Port Hueneme, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by stufried:Before testing 911, I called the general information number of the police department and requested permission to call 911 for a test and asked what would be a good time. They were completely fine with that. Stu Yup,
I was setting up a restaurant phone system with a macro to call 911.
"*9". At first I tried it and hung up. Then I let it go and informed the operator what I was doing. I got my ass chewed out because of the earlier hangup, but they understood, and gave me the proper procedure. They wanted it to work just as much as *I* did. | |
| | | | | |  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·voip.ms
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" You need a speed dial for 9-1-1? That's the nuttiest thing I've ever heard of.
When setting up new VOIP systems (talking about Cisco for businesses) I've never had a problem responding to "What is your emergency" with "This is not an emergency, we are testing a new phone system. Could you provide a read-back of the info you're seeing on your end?"
A few times when we're fighting with a configuration problem I've gotten special clearance in advance from the police to make repeated calls, once they verify that they have adequate staffing levels at the moment. | |
| | | | | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by jester121:You need a speed dial for 9-1-1? That's the nuttiest thing I've ever heard of. My latest cellphone has that "feature". What's worse, the speed dial number is "1". Real handy, that, in a country where "1" is the first number needed to dial anywhere. 
I suppose that if I were in a life-or-death struggle, that it would be helpful to be able to have a "panic button" of sorts. OTOH, if I'm in a life-or-death struggle, I'm not going to stop fighting for my life for anything! Thankfully it can be disabled.
But making a macro to save only a single button-press? That is kind of lame. As is needing dashes to separate single digits. That kind of thing belongs in a Zippy the Pinhead cartoon, along with "what's the number for 911?" | |
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| | | | |  EGeezerSummertimePremium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:7
·Callcentric
| said by Hall:Better be careful "testing" your city's 911 system. Good idea. Here's how I handle it. I periodically test the VoIP 911 every few months. Since I've had no failures I may discontinue the practice.
The first time I tested was after I had installed the VoIP service. I immediately told the operator the situation and asked if there would be any problem with testing once a month of so, or if I had reason to believe my 911 might not be working. The lady said "no problem, just be sure to tell us right away it's a test".
I also have a POTS and a cell phone with the local police dispatcher, EMT and fire house number in speed dial. All three are answered 24x7x365. I also have coffee with some of these folks at our local eatery, so I may be in a different situation than most.
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The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes or its theories will hold water.
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| rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Just a note:
I don't know what the rest of the VOIP providers do but Vonage is supposed to have a help desk that will answer the phone and try to contact the appropriate authorities if they know that there is no way for them to route your call to an actual 911 operator (due to technical limitations or if there is no 911 service in your area.) | |
| | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by rradina:I don't know what the rest of the VOIP providers do but Vonage is supposed to have a help desk that will answer the phone and try to contact the appropriate authorities... IIRC this is precisely what all cellular carriers are required to do by law. Because cellular calls can cross jurisdictions (sometimes several times) during the course of a call, the intermediate 911 call center uses the information that you supply, and any geographic information that they might have to route your call to the most appropriate agency.
If you are familiar with the area you're driving in, and are certain about which agency you want to contact, you can start the call by asking to be connected with that agency, asking for it by name, and speaking with an authoritative voice. This doesn't guarantee compliance, but it helps direct the focus of the call. | |
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approval from:
Time4aNAP 
| What "rigorous Federal standards" do you speak of?
If POTS 911 fails (and it does), the telco has no liability. The last time I need to call 911 from a POTS line (Verizon in New Jersey) in 2004, I got a busy signal... with several attempts. Since I still had the direct number for the police, fire, and rescule squads near the phone (from before 911 was there) I was able to call for help.
While I understand that calling 911 is quicker than calling the 7 (or 10) digit police station number, it wasn't too long ago that 911 wasn't there. And you had to dial the police department number. Heck, phones even had special speed dial buttons for police/fire/rescue squad on them. Were people dropping dead by the thousands in their homes before 911? | |
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See 10 replies to this post | |
| radam
join:2004-02-13
Fairfax Station, VA
1 edit | If E911 doesn't work, I have 3 mobile phones available. Whoever picks up will route you to the local emergency services... wherever you are. | |
| | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by radam:If E911 doesn't work, I have 3 mobile phones available. Whoever picks up will route you to the local emergency services... wherever you are. Since I decided to stick with VOIP (dropping Vonage for ViaTalk) I use cellular and my home alarm system monitoring service (which runs on VoIP and has it's own cellular backup) for emergency services. So between the 3, ViaTalk's iffy 9-1-1 service, my alarm company, and Cingular E911...something has got to work. | |
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|  atangelNow What??Premium
join:2002-02-18
Bronx, NY | »vonage.com/help.php?article=396&···29&nav=2
quote:
911 Dialing
Do I need to test 911 Dialing?
No. You do not need to test 911 Dialing. If you have received an email confirmation from Vonage stating that your 911 Dialing has been activated, then 911 Dialing will work should you ever need it. Please note, testing 911 Dialing when there is not an emergency can be punishable by law in certain states. We advise you to check your local and state laws for more information. If you do choose to test 911 Dialing, you must immediately inform the emergency response personnel that it is not an emergency and that you are testing your Vonage 911 service to make sure it's working. If they ask why you are testing the system, explain that you are using an Internet phone service that operates differently than the traditional phone company. If the operator tells you to dial another number, please inform Vonage Customer Care at 1-VONAGE-HELP (1-866-243-4357).
The state of Minnesota encourages Minnesota residents to test Vonage 911 Dialing once.
If you would like to find out the status of your 911 dialing you may dial 933 from your Vonage phone. By Dialing 933, Vonage will let you know where your call will route to when you dial 911.
So there is a test.... sort of, at least with vonage. It tells you whether 911 has been set up for your phone (something the customer is required to do), but doesn't tell you where exactly the call is going.
Minnesota has the right idea. One call and one call only.
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The reason you think I'm way on the left is cause you're so far to the right
Why I mistrust Zone Labs
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Great...just what this country needs is another bureaucracy. And for what? To regulate numbers?
I can see it now: the feds raid the set of "Sesame Street" for abuse of the number 4 and the letter M. Kids bawling, Elmo wetting himself on network TV...then that evening, Bush preempts your favorite prime time show to ramble on about what a great victory this was for "democracy". "They have weapons of mass destruction. Reliable sources have told us that Big Bird is yellow, and once said 'cake'. Heh. What more evidence do you want? We cannot afford to lose the war on 'the nuculer family'. You're either with us or against us." | |
| | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by Time4aNAP:Great...just what this country needs is another bureaucracy. And for what? To regulate numbers? I can see it now: the feds raid the set of "Sesame Street" for abuse of the number 4 and the letter M. Kids bawling, Elmo wetting himself on network TV...then that evening, Bush preempts your favorite prime time show to ramble on about what a great victory this was for "democracy". " They have weapons of mass destruction. Reliable sources have told us that Big Bird is yellow, and once said 'cake'. Heh. What more evidence do you want? We cannot afford to lose the war on 'the nuculer family'. You're either with us or against us." Huh? WTF are you talking about? Sesame Street and WMD?
Lay off the sauce and try to follow the topic.
This is about 9-1-1 emergency service and VOIP providers meeting some minimum standard of reliability which are are obviously not making. Not television or the Iraq War. | |
| | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by ColorBASIC:Huh? WTF are you talking about? Sesame Street and WMD? If you have to ask, it's over your head. If it's over your head, you will not understand even after I explain. So you'll understand why I don't waste my time explaining...or not.
Lay off the sauce and try to follow the topic. More good advice that you would be wise to follow.
This is about 9-1-1 emergency service and VOIP providers meeting some minimum standard of reliability which are are obviously not making. Not television or the Iraq War. That's quite ironic, as you're the only one here writing "911" with dashes, making it resemble "9-11". And no, this topic isn't limited to your personal (or corporate) agenda. So "lay off the sauce and try to follow the topic", OK? | |
| | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
4 edits | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Sorry...I'm missing your link between Sesame Street, WMDs and Comcast's 9-1-1 service. Now you're on some 9/11 thing.
It's Nine, One, One. Not Nine Hundred and Eleven.
And I'm the only one on DSLR who writes it as 9-1-1 like it's supposed to?
Go bitch at Karl Bode then.
»/nsearch?cat=news&q=9-1-1
Or perhaps these folks have a 9/11 agenda too.
»www.pbc9-1-1.org/
»www.caddo911.com/
»www.tc911.org/
Oh brother. You can skip your political agenda and endless non-sequiturs and return to the topic and any time. | |
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|  pianojl
join:2003-07-08
Sebastian, FL | You buy cheap. You get cheap! | |
| | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Comcast VOIP ain't exactly "cheap". | |
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| | Stick to overcharging for video You obviously can't do telephony right  | |
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See 31 replies to this post | |
 RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | Soft Dialtone I thought the FCC required that all landlines have the ability to dial 911, regardless if the customer is paying for voice service or not. | |
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See 16 replies to this post | |
 fcislerPremium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY | Here's an idea..... Who does NOT have a cell phone now-a-days?
Dial 911 - and s*it.....even just hang up! They have your location (911 = location service is enabled, AFAIK) and will come. I mean really....i don't even use my VoIP. It's nice when I need it....but my cell phone is so much more convenient.
Oh....not to mention that anyone who does NOT know the local #'s to the following places are )#%)#)%)(#()(% RETARDED:
-Police Dept
-Fire Dept
-Hospital
-Poison Control (well...regional #)
Then with a sharpie...write them on the damn WALL where the phone is!
S*it....my ISP gave me a sticker to put on the phone to WRITE emergency #'s on (and a nice disclaimer).
I remember when we got a second phone line YEARS ago (VoIP didn't exist) - they gave us that SAME STICKER!
Hmmmmm...
To me it's like saying "I don't need a smoke alarm in the kids room - i'll be able to feel the heat if there's a fire". | |
| |  CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Re: Here's an idea..... I don't know all of the local #'s, a lot of cell phones do not have GPS, there are still issues with cells and 911 calls in places, my POTs line has not gone down in a blackout or for any other reason in over 20 years - far more reliable than a cell or internet based calling. | |
| | Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | 911 will only gain access still need to give info.
e911 has everything populated already so they know the address/name of person. both run on 911 system but it depends on which one is active in your area and if your phone co. supports. Thats the issue with E911 with most voip companies. They may have you as california, but if you move to florida the e911 still shows old address (assuming you can keep number) | |
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| | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
2 edits | Re: Keep Local Important Numbers Handy I remember when I was a tike, Realtors or other local sales people would give out stickers and refrigerator magnets with "emergency numbers" including local fire/paramedic, police, poison control center, as well as a blank space to write in your family doctor's number. | |
| |  RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | said by TechieZero:However, many towns do not have any form of 911. If they needed emergency help, they dialed a local number to the Police etc. Why is it so hard for the Phone Company to accept the dialed 911 and switch it to the local Police Number (just like dialing *xx will speed dial a number that I tell it to if I have Speed-Dial service)? The Phone company knows where my land-line is located and can set the Phone Switch in the CO to dial the appropriate number. That way even if the is no local 911 call center, dialing 911 will still route it correctly (ie: To the local Police emergency number that you are supposed to dial in the absence of 911 support). | |
| | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Keep Local Important Numbers Handy said by RARPSL:Why is it so hard for the Phone Company to accept the dialed 911 and switch it to the local Police Number (just like dialing *xx will speed dial a number that I tell it to if I have Speed-Dial service)? The Phone company knows where my land-line is located and can set the Phone Switch in the CO to dial the appropriate number. That way even if the is no local 911 call center, dialing 911 will still route it correctly (ie: To the local Police emergency number that you are supposed to dial in the absence of 911 support). First of all, it's not the phone company's responsibility. With all of the bellyaching about VoIP providers, you might get that impression, but it's not true. (The special requirements placed on VoIP providers might be well-intentioned, or might be the result of lobbying by the ILECs to hurt the competition.) The fact of the matter is that all emergency services that can be dispatched from a 911 call are provided (or not--it's up to the voters) by local governmental agencies.
The mega-Bell ILECs, who own and operate all of the central office, tandem and some of the long distance equipment aren't interested in serving your community. They don't care whether you live or die. If you do die, they'll keep taking their money, or sue your estate.
They also aren't about to open themselves to any liability if they don't have to. As you can see from this thread, people aren't really picky when it comes to placing blame. So unless there's a contract, and that contract indemnifies them of any and all liability due to their failure to keep their end of the bargain, they're not doing it. The local governments are protected by statutory bans on suing government agencies.
There are also practical considerations. For example, your local police station might take a dim view on getting a flood of calls meant for the fire department and/or rescue squad. There's also the matter of jurisdiction. You and your neighbor might live on the same street, use the same post office (and 5-digit Zip Code), but you could be outside of the city limits. You know it, your neighbor knows it, but how does the phone company know it? Rarely does a telco central office cover the exact same territory as a local government does. As small towns' borders expand outward, residents who might have been equidistant from two or more municipalities back when phone service was first established might find themselves connected to one town's central office, while all of their new neighbors are connected to another's, just because it has a newer and more capacious switch.
The bottom line is that you either have a formal, federally funded 911 service, or you have a list of 7, 10 or 11-digit numbers to call. If you're smart, you still have those other numbers handy, because nothing is perfect.
I grew up in a small town that had its own police force, but couldn't afford a dispatcher and radio system of its own. So our police department was dispatched by the county. I live in an unincorporated area of that same county, and can recall 458-1000 just as fast as I can 911. The local fire department is another story. I could probably get the number of the firehouse somehow, but because they're dispatched by a regional network of overlapping dispatch cells, protocol dictates that they have to be dispatched from that system, so that every unit's location and status is known in case of a mutual aid call.
Most people don't bother to learn details like the above, using 911 as a crutch. And it is a fine crutch indeed, 99% of the time. That remaining 1% is up to you. | |
| | |  TechieZeroTools Are Using MePremium
join:2002-01-25
Gibsonton, FL
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Why is it so hard for the Phone Company to accept the dialed 911 and switch it to the local Police Number... 911 systems are big business. I worked for a company who did this as well as other things. As stated below there are many concerns that have to be managed and handled just so ppl can have the convenience of being able to dial 911. Also anything that has regulations and lawyers involved...will never be easy. | |
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 xdeadhead220, 221, Whatever It Takes.Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | 911 voip is a joke in your town.
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I am not herbert. | |
| | | Look Gees People If you wanna be stupid and piss and moan about VOIP because it didn't save your kid or dog or fish... ITS VOIP... ITS VIA BROADBAND.. You are at the mercy of any number of variables. If you don't understand VOIP weakness in an uncontrolled and ever changing (Internet) environment then YOU NEED POTS... PERIOD! But please lay off the you failed they failed bit I am so freaking tired of hearing it!! | |
|  CabalPremium
join:2007-01-21
Austin, TX | Source reliability Fake. | |
| | agill81
join:2007-02-26
Aliso Viejo, CA | Re: Source reliability For all the people who complain about not being able to call 911 you should have known about the risks this is all in the TOS...It comes down to it that people just don't know how VoIP really works......
Secondly have a cell phone for back up...even if you don't have service on your cell phone you can still call 911 which is required per FCC on all cell phones. | |
| | | dbonamo
join:2002-12-19
Greenville, SC Reviews:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Source reliability said by agill81:For all the people who complain about not being able to call 911 you should have known about the risks this is all in the TOS...It comes down to it that people just don't know how VoIP really works......
Secondly have a cell phone for back up...even if you don't have service on your cell phone you can still call 911 which is required per FCC on all cell phones. The problem is VOIP companies are marketing voip as a replacement for POTS. Not everyone that this is market to is savvy enough to understand the current pitfalls of voip. They see a commercial from, Charter, Comcast, Vonage or whoever and all they hear is how much they will save if they switch telephone service.
I think if a voip company's wants to play a telephone company and compete with existing POTS they need to be able to provide the same level of service.
It is not fair to the average consumer who does not completely understand voip. All they know is it is a telephone service.
I am not anti-voip, I am a Vonage customer and have no complaints, but I do understand the current limitations of voip. | |
| | | | | | Re: Source reliability said by dbonamo:said by agill81:
It is not fair to the average consumer who does not completely understand voip. All they know is it is a telephone service.
Please...give me a break....It isn't fair I swear how about we take a little responsibility. Sometimes people have to grow up and ask a few questions or heaven forbid do some research. People like this make me sick! If you decide to [ASS]ume its the same than you get what you get just SHUT UP AND QUIT PISSING AND MOANING ABOUT IT! | |
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| | Things break, systems go down, fix it and life goes on. I read this story, and read his blog. Although I feel sorry that the E911 system did not work when he needed it, the cell phone worked as a backup. I would also get the local number to the police dispatch and have that on speed dial. He could have called the cell phones 911 center off the tower near his home so that it is a local center, and talk to someone about keeping his address on file for emergencies.
911 systems go down all the time. Sometimes there busy. Ever get a busy signal, or a recording and then put on hold? I have. If you don't believe me, do a google news search and you'll see that Comcast is not the only phone service with 911 outages or problems. Here is just one recent example: »www.whptv.com/news/local/story.a···1655db0f
If you have someone with medical problems living in your home, you should have several plans in case of emergencies. During a major storm, a tree could take out the main telephone pole. I have seen, a car take out a pole during an accident. Construction crews digging water mains cut main phone lines. So you should always have a second or third plan. Cursing out CAE's at 2AM in the morning made no sense. You would have been better off going to the local customer center and talking to someone in person.
Maybe speak to a supervisor while your at the customer service center. Then I would have followed it up with a letter to my area vice-president and to Brian Roberts in Philly. Maybe find out who the tech ops manager is for my area. After they assure me the problem is resolved, I may test the 911 system for a few months. One time, every 30 days or so, and apologize to the 911 operator for the test.
Would he have acted that way to any other provider? I think the CAE's did a professional job at 2AM. Knowing there wasn't any supervisor higher than a call center supervisor, they still let the man rant and rave throughout the many levels of customer support. Try calling Verizon repair at 2AM and tell me if you get the same amount of people, willing to take your crap.
I think the man should apologize to Comcast for his profanity. That could have been someones mother or grandmother he talked trash to. Then he can expect an apology back from Comcast, and a full investigation into his problem. Something went wrong, and we would like to know what caused the outage. So that other systems can check and make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.
Also, you agreed to the fact that there may be an E911 problem and waived Comcast of any liability. Read your work order that you signed when you got your Comcast Digital Voice. Comcast is not liable for outages from the E-911 system and you signed that work order and agreed to that. The important part of the mans story is that his child got help, thanks to his reliable wireless backup. Thank God for the cellphone. | |
| Xelloss
join:2007-03-02
Paso Robles, CA
1 edit | Haven't had any experience with VOIP Haven't had any experience with VOIP 911 but when I did need to dial 911 one time my cell phone with Verizon worked just fine. But I still don't trust VOIP because your kinda screwed if the power goes out and the battery backup on charters lines only last maybe 2-3 hours. Personally I am just going to stick with Cell phones and regular landlines. | |
| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Haven't had any experience with VOIP said by Xelloss:...I still don't trust VOIP because your kinda screwed if the power goes out and the battery backup on charters lines only last maybe 2-3 hours. You're talking about a cable company, right? If so, consider yourself fortunate to have 2-3 hours! Every cable system that I've had is dead the second the utility power quits.
DSL OTOH works just fine when the power's out. I can't give up my creature comforts like A/C and the Internet just because the utility power's down. And my TiVo boxes have plenty of programming for long outages! | |
|
Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Hearsay Not Same as Truth I'm a little surprised to see a report of some old, unverified claim appearing as "news". Journalism deals with facts, not unfounded claims. And "news" ought to be self-evident.
Aside from the cost savings, the most obvious benefit of VoIP is that it is free from physical constraints. When you're out of town, you can make and take phone calls from your home LATA, no matter where you are on earth. This is a powerful tool! And like all tools, it is the skill of the user that determines the final result.
In the US, you cannot get VoIP service without supplying an address for the mandatory E911 service that all US VoIP carriers are required to provide. Providing false information is a criminal offense. If you have VoIP service, it is your legal responsibility to provide accurate, timely E911 information to your VoIP carrier. It's also in your own best interest.
If the story in the blog is based on a real event, it's a story of an illiterate, hot-headed man who failed his son through poor verbal communication. I can say my address with complete clarity in twenty seconds. That's a lot faster than most people can copy it down. However, emergency 911 operators are trained to do things like that. Even still, they will ask for confirmation, to ensure good communications. How this guy wasted twenty minutes is beyond me. But it does serve as evidence that his problem is not just with Comcast.
The blog doesn't say why only mom was allowed to ride in the ambulance with the child. I wouldn't want to leave my child's side, even if it meant taking a cab ride home. I can make an educated guess, but that's moot now. What we do know is that (if the story is in fact real) there was another adult in the house. An adult who was considered responsible enough to ride in the ambulance to the hospital. I wonder what might have happened if mom had control of the phone?
That is, of course, if anything in that blog is true.
I have Comcast cable Internet and TV service. It works pretty well. Because it's a residential service with no SLA, I understand, and work with that knowledge. That's why my VoIP phone is routed through an ISP that does have a SLA for the service that they provide. I also have a cellphone. I also chose to live within walking distance of the area's Level I trauma center. If need be, I can get to the ER entrance faster than my local fire department can get to my door. I planned ahead.
One fact that is glaringly absent in all of the neo-luddite opinions of competitive phone services is the fact that the ILEC and the 911 call center are also links in this chain. And as most of us are aware, it's the weakest link that fails. There is no rule that says that that weakest link has to be the closest link, however. Ponder that for a minute...or twenty. | |
| | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Hearsay Not Same as Truth said by Time4aNAP: If you have VoIP service, it is your legal responsibility to provide accurate, timely E911 information to your VoIP carrier. Gotta love the VOIP apologists.
A lot of good it does providing VOIP providers accurate information when they don't route the calls properly as what the case with my Vonage service.
So long as providers are allowed to call their joke of an emergency service 9-1-1, consumers will continue to be duped into thinking that it is reliable alternative to POTS 9-1-1. And this goes way beyond "9-1-1 won't work during a power outage" disclaimers. VOIP 9-1-1 service is been shown to be too unreliable and requires a much higher level of scrutany by the FCC than they currently get. | |
| | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Hearsay Not Same as Truth said by ColorBASIC:Gotta love the VOIP apologists. That's mighty ironic when it's coming from the #1 ILEC apologist around these parts. Resorting to ad hominem attacks is indicative of a position that has no truth behind it.
A lot of good it does providing VOIP providers accurate information when they don't route the calls properly as what the case with my Vonage service. That's your claim, so prove it. Precisely how did you eliminate every single possibility except a routing error made by Vonage?
Of course, if it truly is the case, it will be moot quite soon, when Vonage switches from those patented routing protocols that ILEC Verizon owns, and on to something that will work.
So long as providers are allowed to call their joke of an emergency service 9-1-1, consumers will continue to be duped into thinking that it is reliable alternative to POTS 9-1-1. Ah...the many local government agencies that provide 911 service might take issue with your blanket indictment of them collectively. However you're the only one I see calling it "9-1-1". And POTS has nothing whatsoever to do with it. There is no such thing as "POTS 9-1-1".
VOIP 9-1-1 service is been shown to be too unreliable and requires a much higher level of scrutany by the FCC than they currently get. There's no such thing as "VOIP 9-1-1" either. There's only 911 service (no dashes, there are no dash keys on phones), and it's provided by local governments, not telcos.
However it is the telcos that are responsible for getting 911 calls through. The ILECs' current practice of sabotaging Caller ID data from competitive sources isn't what I would call being responsible, however. In fact, when that sabotage affects a 911 call, I'd call that criminal.
Am I supposed to be persuaded to buy my phone service from an ILEC because they play dirty? No, that's a good reason not to reward the ILECs with my business!
If the ILECs go out of business, it's their own fault. I hope they do, good riddance! The sooner we shake off the mantle of last century's "necessary evil" and get some real capitalism going, the better! | |
| | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
4 edits | Re: Hearsay Not Same as Truth Dash keys? Of course there aren't dash keys. Come on, now you're just being lame. Look in the phone book. You don't see 7 and 10 digit phone numbers separated (area code, prefix, int'l access code, etc) by dashes. As far as 9-1-1, it's written that way not just by me, but the NENA and hundreds of fire and police departments. Why? Because it's pronouced nine-one-one, not nine hundred and eleven, not nine-eleven...nine-one-one. Because you dial, 9-1-1. Use your head. And certainly yes, the PSTA isn't operated by the VOIP provider, but it's the VOIP or telco who ROUTE THE CALLS THERE or are at least supposed to. In the case of Vonage, they didn't. However had I had Verizon POTS, it would have. Again, use your head.
And sure, I'M an ILEC apologist. I guess that is why I CANCELLED Verizon DSL and their overpriced POTS. I even went with cable HSI over FiOS...because I just LOVE the ILECs.
»F-Verizon
»Re: OM malik disgusts me
Yeah, I just LOVE the ILECs.
said by ColorBASIC's TWC HSI review :
Even though Verizon FiOS is also available at my address, the loss of copper, previous experience with bad Verizon service, Verizon's endless junk fees, and contract (in order to get a better price than RR) stop me from bothering to try it.
And "prove it". What, sign back up with Vonage, and record my 9-1-1 call going to an off-hours number at the police station? Then what...we watch you go off on yet another Sesame Street, 9/11 and WMD tangent. No thanks.
VOIP routes (or is at least supposed to route) 9-1-1 calls to the appropriate call center. That makes it THEIR 9-1-1 service. I'm responsible for giving them correct address info, which I did. They're responsible for taking that info and making sure the 9-1-1 call gets to the right place (which Vonage failed miserably in doing).
READ threads before responding. Think before typing. It will save you embarrassment. | |
| | | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Hearsay Not Same as Truth said by ColorBASIC:And sure, I'M an ILEC apologist. I guess that is why I CANCELLED Verizon DSL and their overpriced POTS. I even went with cable HSI over FiOS...because I just LOVE the ILECs. I never accused you of being rational.
But your actions speak for themselves.
In the short time that I've been following the news here, I've seen you write quite a few contradictory things. One thing that has remained steadfast is your unwavering enthusiasm for the ILECs' product (POTS), and completely irrational (albeit venomous) arguments against VoIP. Remember your house, that can magically transport itself around town? Everything it did was to the detriment of VoIP, but apparently a very long phone cord kept it connected to the ILEC's CO at all times. But today you don't even have POTS!
Can't wait for what tomorrow holds. | |
| | | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Hearsay Not Same as Truth Unwavering enthusiasm for POTS? Flying houses? Your short time here obviously hasn't done anything for your reading comprehension. None of what you said is true and you're just embarassing yourself.
It's always nice getting a /. reject in here, makes for a good laugh. | |
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ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Wow...a new religion is created It's fun to watch the VOIP apologists make excuses for VOIP provider failures. It amazing to see VOIP subscribers get the blame for misrouted calls or promote the myth that VOIP providers have never misrouted a 9-1-1 call. It's VOIP 9-1-1 problems that got the FCC involved in the first place but isn't what the VOIP shills would have you believe. To them VOIP is infallible and any problem is ALWAYS the fault of the subscriber.
Makes me wonder how much they're getting paid by VOIP providers for the endless ass kissing. I've seen FiOS fanboys defending their religion whenever there is a bad review, cable shills defending price increases and HSI caps but the VOIP zealot defending VOIPs failure in 9-1-1 service is coming of age.
The lack of objectivity is truly entertaining. There is no such thing as a perfect provider, whether it's the ILECs and their junk fees and overpriced services, cable operators and their 2x inflation price increases, or any of the VOIP providers; each being lame in their own way. And when the zealots of any platform turns to endless defense and thread trolling attacking anyone who dares speak ill of their blessed service they only embarrass themselves. And the zealots know who they are. | |
| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Wow...a new religion is created said by ColorBASIC:And the zealots know who they are. Yes, you do. | |
|
bohn
join:2006-05-30
Scarborough, ON | Who is responsible for losses on futures? While i haven't personally sued any of these Canadian isp's for disconnecting me during a futures trade (online) i have had the internet quote die on me many a time. Seconds can mean millions of dollars one way or the other. So yes i could sue an isp for several million dollars. While that likely wouldn't be the case in America it is quite different in Canada where the internet disconnects you several times a day if it ever works at all. | |
| | | | Re: Who is responsible for losses on futures? In regards to testing the 911 system,
Ive dialed "91.." then hung up. And 911 does a call back to make sure everything is ok.
I just told them that I was dialing a "914-xxxx" number. And there like yeah ok.
Be interesting to test that hehe. | |
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. I know it can be busy in a 911 center but calling during down times is best. Just a suggestion. 
Keep Local Important Numbers Handy