 
ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 15th, @01:08PM
| They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Unless it meets rigorous Federal standards.
Then no matter the fine print people will have less confusion that VoIP 9-1-1 ain't the same as POTS 9-1-1.
When I had Vonage and tested 9-1-1 after one of these DSLR articles, I got the front desk number of our local Sheriff's office which is closed at night. Funny, the recording said if this is an emergency or are witnessing a crime in progress, hang up and dial 9-1-1. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Better be careful "testing" your city's 911 system. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Turns out I "didn't" test our city 9-1-1 system, but rather a desk Sgt's answering machine.  | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" That's not the point... Do you have a landline ?? If so, why don't you "test" that 911 works a few different times of the day. Let me know how it goes. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 15th, @01:45PM
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" I have never read about instances of POTS 9-1-1 ringing into the janator closet of a police station. If I read about widespread and systemic problems of POTS 9-1-1 not being routed properly, I would certainly test it.
If the 9-1-1 call center operator gets pissed because I took 10 seconds of their time, to bad, let them fine me. I'm forced to pay into the system...I'm going to know whether it works like it's supposed to. | |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
Walla Walla, WA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" 10 seconds might not be a problem, call 10 times, you will be going to jail. | |
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Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" he stated he tested his 911 once after a report, someone else jumped the gun and suggested he try it 10times to see what happens. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" My point was, some things you don't or shouldn't "test". As scary as it is, you have to trust that it just works. How many people test a fire sprinkler system ?? How 'bout draining the oil from their car to see if the oil light comes on ?? 
When 911 service was first started, did it work 100% ?? I suspect not... And we're dealing with POTS back then. If 911 is of any importance to anyone, take your chances with VOIP and similar phone services. They're still in their infancy and still have bugs to work out. You'd think E911 would be an absolute priority though. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 15th, @02:13PM
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" WRONG!
Of course fire sprinker system installers test their systems after installation. Same with alarm monitoring systems. And I run little chance of death if the oil drains out of my car. Maybe a $5000 Haz-Mat fine, but that is why I use a new washer and a torque wrench on my drain plug instead of a calibrated wrist.
Sorry. If Verizon, Vonage, Time Warner, or anyone else that I have shows a pattern of problems with routing 9-1-1 calls to the 9-1-1 call center...it's gonna get a quick test and if it fails they're gone. | |
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| | | | | | | | | quatrix
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" When I test our security system, it sends a test signal to Brinks and waits for a response. That's a lot different than "testing" by intentionally triggering the alarm or pushing one of the emergency buttons and waiting for the police to show up. | |
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| | | | | | | | | shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" A correct way would be to arm the system, trigger all sensors if possible or rotate weekly, wait for the call center to get it and call you, you can put it into test mode so their people know you're testing. This is not a complete test because you're not having the call center call the police but that is different. I haved tested my 911 with sunrocket and vonage a couple time. I recommend everyone does. All operators that I have spoken to understood completely and were very curtious about it. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" My alarm has a self diagnostic mode...supposedly. According to my ViaTalk call logs it also dials in every day. I don't know why. Maybe to check line quality. When the alarm company found out that I was using VoIP they said they were going to make some changes, maybe this was one of them. | |
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| | | | | | | | | shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" Still if you're not testing a sensor but an actual trigger then it is not a full test. nextalarm.com monitors over the internet through real polling (every 5 min) so if your line gets cut then you will be notified. I also pay them about $11 a month, interested? | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" I don't know what else it tests. The only backup it has is cellular backup. It's not connected to my home network or anything. | |
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Phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL
| I say test it only if you're not resourceful enough to actually have the number that the 911 call goes to. Lets be real folks, whether or not it works, it is more reliable, and a better idea, to just have the direct number stuck to the phone, or programmed to the number 9 key on your phone. Sorry, but the 911 system is so old, and is in major need of upgrade. The reason this can be a "hidden" problem is because of number portability. If someone ported a number to another carrier, and that carrier managed to re-assign it without releasing it back to the original office/carrier, then you can have a problem with the switches records. Since VoIP is not physically terminating to the persons house, you can have a situation where the info never reaches the CAMA trunk to get the correct billing info to the 911 operator. All of "the big boys" in VoIP have had at least 1 issue with it, but even better, the landline providers have had it happen too, so you'd be a fool NOT to keep it posted JUST INCASE.
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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Smokey
I'm so much cooler offline
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
| Most emergency communications centers have, or should have policies to conduct a test of a phone line's ability to access the 911 network. My former ECC's policy was to call the non emergency number and request a test "slot". The dispatcher would make sure there were resources to conduct the test, get the callers information *name, number, address...* and then tell the caller to conduct the test.
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Para Bellum!! | |
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| | | | | | | | | captme
join:2001-12-05
Peru, IL
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" I live in a town of 10,000 people. I called the non emergency number and ask to speak to the chief of police. I told him we have VOIP in our town and it's new so I would like to test the e911 service. He didn't have a problem with it at all. I called 911 and the call work fine. Came up with my name and address. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by captme  :I live in a town of 10,000 people. I called the non emergency number and ask to speak to the chief of police. I told him we have VOIP in our town and it's new so I would like to test the e911 service. He didn't have a problem with it at all. I called 911 and the call work fine. Came up with my name and address. Most jurisdictions tolerate a brief, well-stated test of a new phone number. Most will cooperate by verifying your Caller ID information. IME tests of numbers assigned to non-ILEC customers is of vital importance, because of the ILECs' tendency to sabotage Caller ID data to make the competition look bad.
The rules vary, depending on where you are. 911 call centers that have a problem with frivolous calls tend to have stricter rules in reaction to previous abuse. If in doubt, check with your local government. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Exactly. This isn't about harrassing and disrupting 9-1-1 operators (does it work yet, does it work yet, does it work yet). It's a 1 time thing for a provider (in my case Vonage) who had shown a pattern of not properly forwarding 9-1-1 calls. | |
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| | | | | | | | rocco_fanucc
join:2007-05-15
Brooklyn, NY | Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" That's true. Misdialed "911" by mistake and said "ooh, sorry, misdialed."
3 minutes later, Sgt. Stadanko shows up asking questions. What a wonderful world live in! | |
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| | | | | | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by rocco_fanucc :That's true. Misdialed "911" by mistake and said "ooh, sorry, misdialed." 3 minutes later, Sgt. Stadanko shows up asking questions. What a wonderful world live in! There have been many cases when the victim of a violent crime manages to break free from their attacker just long enough to find a phone and dial 911. In some cases, the attacker rips the phone cord from the wall, disconnecting the call. In others, the armed assailant convinces the victim to say it was a mistake and then hang up.
In the latter case, that's often the last recording of that person's voice. This is why the police investigate all improperly terminated 911 calls. If all is well, no big deal. If not, that policy could save your life one day. | |
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| | | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Ch. 16 A good point. Still, that's no excuse to transmit from onshore.  | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Hall :That's not the point... Do you have a landline ?? If so, why don't you "test" that 911 works a few different times of the day. Let me know how it goes. You are allowed to place a test 911 call as long as it's brief and you notify them in advance you are performing a "911 test." HOWEVER, some local cities want you to contact the non-emergency side first to ask for proper clearance of 911 testing AND/OR to find out when they want you to perform the test.
Doing it over and over, however, .. not smart.
... I love the so-called experts around here. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by fiberguy :You are allowed to place a test 911 call as long as it's brief and you notify them in advance you are performing a "911 test." That sounds reasonable though how do you notify them ?? Calling the non-emergency number will do what ?? Maybe they can suggest a "slow" time to call or that you need to say a certain thing right off the start...
I just keep remembering dialing 911 on the interstate (in the middle of town) trying to reach the highway patrol to report a drunk driver or something. I was routed to the city of Dayton's 911 center and the 911 bitch operator gave me shit about it being a "non-emergency". I started to reply "Look, I'm trying to reach...." and stopped, knowing I'd "lose" the argument (signs along the interstate say to dial 911 to reach the highway patrol). Who knows the non-emergency number for cities when you're just driving through ?? | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 16th, @10:38AM
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" You never know. In California we have a similar sign program. On Cal-Trans electric message signs over the freeways and during holidays (like New Year's Eve) they put up messages saying stuff like "Report Drunk Drivers Dial 911". We also have permanent blue highways signs saying to call 9-1-1 to report drunk drivers.
They even got an award for the program »www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/news/···7pr5.htm | |
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| | | | clecssuck
join:2002-01-23
Birmingham, AL
| When I used to install PBX systems I'd dial 911 everytime before leaving. I would just quickly advise them I'm a phone man and I'm testing a new install and thanks for your time. I always recieved a warm "you're welcome" It's the folls that dial 911, tell the operator that something is wrong when it's not that are the problem, a quick test call is no big deal. | |
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| | | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13 | Before testing 911, I called the general information number of the police department and requested permission to call 911 for a test and asked what would be a good time. They were completely fine with that.
Stu | |
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hhawkman
Premium
join:2001-02-08
Port Hueneme, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by stufried :Before testing 911, I called the general information number of the police department and requested permission to call 911 for a test and asked what would be a good time. They were completely fine with that. Stu Yup,
I was setting up a restaurant phone system with a macro to call 911.
"*9". At first I tried it and hung up. Then I let it go and informed the operator what I was doing. I got my ass chewed out because of the earlier hangup, but they understood, and gave me the proper procedure. They wanted it to work just as much as *I* did. | |
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| | | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" You need a speed dial for 9-1-1? That's the nuttiest thing I've ever heard of.
When setting up new VOIP systems (talking about Cisco for businesses) I've never had a problem responding to "What is your emergency" with "This is not an emergency, we are testing a new phone system. Could you provide a read-back of the info you're seeing on your end?"
A few times when we're fighting with a configuration problem I've gotten special clearance in advance from the police to make repeated calls, once they verify that they have adequate staffing levels at the moment. | |
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| | | | | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by jester121 :You need a speed dial for 9-1-1? That's the nuttiest thing I've ever heard of. My latest cellphone has that "feature". What's worse, the speed dial number is "1". Real handy, that, in a country where "1" is the first number needed to dial anywhere. 
I suppose that if I were in a life-or-death struggle, that it would be helpful to be able to have a "panic button" of sorts. OTOH, if I'm in a life-or-death struggle, I'm not going to stop fighting for my life for anything! Thankfully it can be disabled.
But making a macro to save only a single button-press? That is kind of lame. As is needing dashes to separate single digits. That kind of thing belongs in a Zippy the Pinhead cartoon, along with "what's the number for 911?" | |
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| rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
·Vonage
| Just a note:
I don't know what the rest of the VOIP providers do but Vonage is supposed to have a help desk that will answer the phone and try to contact the appropriate authorities if they know that there is no way for them to route your call to an actual 911 operator (due to technical limitations or if there is no 911 service in your area.) | |
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| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by rradina :I don't know what the rest of the VOIP providers do but Vonage is supposed to have a help desk that will answer the phone and try to contact the appropriate authorities... IIRC this is precisely what all cellular carriers are required to do by law. Because cellular calls can cross jurisdictions (sometimes several times) during the course of a call, the intermediate 911 call center uses the information that you supply, and any geographic information that they might have to route your call to the most appropriate agency.
If you are familiar with the area you're driving in, and are certain about which agency you want to contact, you can start the call by asking to be connected with that agency, asking for it by name, and speaking with an authoritative voice. This doesn't guarantee compliance, but it helps direct the focus of the call. | |
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anon_in_nj
@comcast.net
 from:
Time4aNAP
| What "rigorous Federal standards" do you speak of?
If POTS 911 fails (and it does), the telco has no liability. The last time I need to call 911 from a POTS line (Verizon in New Jersey) in 2004, I got a busy signal... with several attempts. Since I still had the direct number for the police, fire, and rescule squads near the phone (from before 911 was there) I was able to call for help.
While I understand that calling 911 is quicker than calling the 7 (or 10) digit police station number, it wasn't too long ago that 911 wasn't there. And you had to dial the police department number. Heck, phones even had special speed dial buttons for police/fire/rescue squad on them. Were people dropping dead by the thousands in their homes before 911? | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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| radam
join:2004-02-13
Fairfax Station, VA
edit:
May 15th, @03:55PM
| If E911 doesn't work, I have 3 mobile phones available. Whoever picks up will route you to the local emergency services... wherever you are. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by radam :If E911 doesn't work, I have 3 mobile phones available. Whoever picks up will route you to the local emergency services... wherever you are. Since I decided to stick with VOIP (dropping Vonage for ViaTalk) I use cellular and my home alarm system monitoring service (which runs on VoIP and has it's own cellular backup) for emergency services. So between the 3, ViaTalk's iffy 9-1-1 service, my alarm company, and Cingular E911...something has got to work. | |
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atangel
Now What??
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Bronx, NY
| »vonage.com/help.php?article=396&···29&nav=2
quote:
911 Dialing
Do I need to test 911 Dialing?
No. You do not need to test 911 Dialing. If you have received an email confirmation from Vonage stating that your 911 Dialing has been activated, then 911 Dialing will work should you ever need it. Please note, testing 911 Dialing when there is not an emergency can be punishable by law in certain states. We advise you to check your local and state laws for more information. If you do choose to test 911 Dialing, you must immediately inform the emergency response personnel that it is not an emergency and that you are testing your Vonage 911 service to make sure it's working. If they ask why you are testing the system, explain that you are using an Internet phone service that operates differently than the traditional phone company. If the operator tells you to dial another number, please inform Vonage Customer Care at 1-VONAGE-HELP (1-866-243-4357).
The state of Minnesota encourages Minnesota residents to test Vonage 911 Dialing once.
If you would like to find out the status of your 911 dialing you may dial 933 from your Vonage phone. By Dialing 933, Vonage will let you know where your call will route to when you dial 911.
So there is a test.... sort of, at least with vonage. It tells you whether 911 has been set up for your phone (something the customer is required to do), but doesn't tell you where exactly the call is going.
Minnesota has the right idea. One call and one call only.
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The reason you think I'm way on the left is cause you're so far to the right
Why I mistrust Zone Labs
Use BBR Search | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 16th, @09:36AM
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by Time4aNAP :Great...just what this country needs is another bureaucracy. And for what? To regulate numbers? I can see it now: the feds raid the set of "Sesame Street" for abuse of the number 4 and the letter M. Kids bawling, Elmo wetting himself on network TV...then that evening, Bush preempts your favorite prime time show to ramble on about what a great victory this was for "democracy". " They have weapons of mass destruction. Reliable sources have told us that Big Bird is yellow, and once said 'cake'. Heh. What more evidence do you want? We cannot afford to lose the war on 'the nuculer family'. You're either with us or against us." Huh? WTF are you talking about? Sesame Street and WMD?
Lay off the sauce and try to follow the topic.
This is about 9-1-1 emergency service and VOIP providers meeting some minimum standard of reliability which are are obviously not making. Not television or the Iraq War. | |
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| | | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
·Speakeasy
·Comcast
| Re: They shouldn't be able to call it "9-1-1" said by ColorBASIC :Huh? WTF are you talking about? Sesame Street and WMD? If you have to ask, it's over your head. If it's over your head, you will not understand even after I explain. So you'll understand why I don't waste my time explaining...or not.
Lay off the sauce and try to follow the topic. More good advice that you would be wise to follow.
This is about 9-1-1 emergency service and VOIP providers meeting some minimum standard of reliability which are are obviously not making. Not television or the Iraq War. That's quite ironic, as you're the only one here writing "911" with dashes, making it resemble "9-11". And no, this topic isn't limited to your personal (or corporate) agenda. So "lay off the sauce and try to follow the topic", OK? | |
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Dad Rages Against Comcast 911
. I know it can be busy in a 911 center but calling during down times is best. Just a suggestion. 