 |  | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Re: Futile Yup. Also considering that the smaller independents have a much better track record at deploying broadband to their subscribers than do the ILEC's, you'd think they'd stop whining.
I guess there is a natural fear of change, though. | |
| | | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Futile The worst these people will get is more of the same lack of service that they currently have. At least with a changeover there is a chance, albeit very small, of service upgrades.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
 ·Qwest.net
| Re: Futile I was working for an Independent telco in Utah when it bought some exchanges from US West. While the service we provided was significantly better, we also raised prices after 6 months, by like over %10. We also got a bunch of subsidy money. (USF, NECA pooling, dirt cheap loans, etc.) Also, we weren't Union, so those Union jobs went away (we made significantly less than US West employees). So, from personal experience, I understand the trepidation these people have. | |
| | | | | 
calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: Futile Isn't this all really just an argument about whether it's better to be a bigger frog in a smaller pond or a smaller frog in a bigger pond?
calvoiper
--
VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| That website sure is odd. They're opposed to Fairpoint because they'll only sell "yesterday's technology", i.e., DSL rather than FIOS.
So they want to stick with Verizon. Even though with VZ, they won't even get DSL(?).
Perhaps they think there's some way they can force VZ to sell them FIOS(?). I think alot of this is FUD driven by the unions, who don't want to lose a union shop, and really don't care whether broadband gets deployed or not. | |
| | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile Umm, it's all driven by the unions. They're the only one's with something to lose. It's not like any service will be worse than what Verizon is offering, especially since Verizon has publicly written the area off anyway. Imagine how bad their service could be? 1 CSR for the whole area? :P | |
| | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile You are so incredibly uniformed. I would ask you to talk to ALL verizon employees. It's not just "union folk" that are opposed to this deal. a huge amount of management are opposed because they know all about Fairpoint. They only problem they have is if they speak against fairpoint, they will be fired. | |
| | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile Sorry, didn't realize how many Verizon employee's weren't in the union. Regardless, you can substitute my union comment for "all verizon employee's". Either way, it's not going to negatively effect customers. If they're actually worried about major community job loss, then that's what they should say. Obviously they've decided that, that's not the case, so they've chosen to go a different direction. | |
| | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile Ahreni,
It's just not that simply defined. It isn't even an employee versus company thing. It's a company that the public relies on for the best, most reliable service. They are trying to bail out on an entire region that contrary to popular thought is a profitable region. Verizon, no doubt would like to ramp up their FIOS rollout as quickly as possible, but myself and tens of thousands of others do not want it done at our expense. Fairpoint does not offer anything to anyone of any appreciable number. They are talking about offering an outdated technology to less than 20% of the state. That's not moving forward, it's moving us backward. Verizon has an obligation, as a company that offers a public utility to maintain excellence. If they want to sell us, then they need to sell us to someone that will maintain that level of excellence, not a pissant little company that thinks DSL is the future. | |
| | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile Fairpoint will be offering the same service that Verizon is offering now; which will be much better than any service provided by Verizon if they're FORCED to stay there.
They have every right to sell any part of their business to anyone else, unless it's a national security problem. If you think it's unfair that they're profiting from the sale of a public utility, well that could be a valid argument. But since that's not what anyone is arguing you don't get to use that now.
It's not like Verizon is particularly well known for great service.
I don't think anyone is saying it's not profitable in its current state. I mean they have a regulated monopoly, of course they've set the price above their costs. What they're saying is that there is no reasonable price they can charge that will make it profitable to build out a next generation network in the area because of population density. Since that's the direction they're taking the company, they want to sell off the areas where it won't be possible to companies that want to continue the old business model. This area is a perfect example of somewhere that should start it's own Muni network. Then Fairpoint and others can offer service over the network, and each resident can choose weather or not they want to use them.
Don't give me the invalid "don't use tax payer money" argument, since this is exactly what Revenue bonds which sell like hot cakes, are used for. For those that don't know what revenue bonds are, they are bonds that are ONLY backed by revenue generated from a specific municipal project. (ie. the fiber network) So if the network, for some reason, isn't profitable, or takes more to build than thought, only the bond holders are harmed. The municipality only has the obligation to try and succeed. | |
| | | | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile ..."which will be much better than anything Verizon offers if its forced to stay there."
this is one area where you and a select few are completely wrong. I know people that work for the company. They are currently (that means right now) installing FIOS in current communities that already have it, as well as installing DSL in far away rural areas. Verizon pulled back on DSL and FIOS for obvious financial reasons, but if they have to stay they just can't sulk in the corner and pout. They will have to do something, and they will.
I'm curious, What is it you think they will do when the deal falls through?
As far as your tax payer money suggestion, it means nothing. Do you think, for a moment that Maine, NH, and Vermont are going to all of sudden link up and create their own little phone companies? Do you think for a moment that a government run phone company is actually going to run smoothly and be profitable.
And let me educate you. It is substantially cheaper to run and maintain a mile of fiber than it is to do the same with copper. MUCH of the fiber needed for most of the state is already in place. Verizon would just need to co-ordinate separate nieghborhoods and towns in whatever order it would be done... The expense is not so much in running the fiber. it's the actual equipment that is used to run FIOS that is ridiculously expensive.
And lastly, do your homework. Just because you have never heard of Fairpoint before doesn't make their customer service better. In fact, their customer complaint rate is twice that of Verizon. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: Futile They will absolutely not upgrade an area that they have determined will not become profitable. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE TRYING TO SELL IT. IF the deal falls through, they will look for other buyers, and continue cutting back support staff to absolute minimums to scratch whatever profit they can from the area.
I didn't suggest that Maine, NH, VT create their own companies. I suggested they build their own network (which you say is inexpensive and largely in place already, which I doubt, but I have no idea) and lease it to whatever companies would like to offer service on it. Those lease payments can then be used to pay off the revenue bonds, and maintain the network.
It certainly is cheaper to maintain, and lay a mile of fiber than copper. But the copper is ALREADY run, so when you compare the immediate cost of maintaining copper versus RUNNING AND MAINTAINING fiber, you're upside down again.
I didn't say Fairpoint's customer service is better. I said it would be the same that it is now, which will be better than what Verizon will leave behind if it's forced to stay there.
Thanks for all the "education". | |
| | | | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
1 edit | Re: Futile You're welcome. Heres some more.
Fairpoint communications was the very, absolute, no doubt about it, LAST company that Verizon chose for this sale. So, when the sale falls through they won't just look for another buyer... Their won't be any others. Check on Citizens and Embarq communications.. They were MUCH better poised to buy the three states than Fairpoint, but they saw right through everything. They know it is a horrible deal.
Second, Maine, NH, and Vermont are among the top 5 most profitable properties in the Verizon footprint. They are marketing and installing FIOS in their least profitable states (Mass, Rhode Island, and New Jersey) in order to finally make some type of a profit.
Third, most of the copper in the farther reaches of all three states are in such bad condition that they need to be replaced fully. There are many, many homes in areas that already have DSL access that are less than a mile from the Central office, but cannot receive service because the lines are so screwed up. So, replacing that copper with Fiber is cost effective. (look at me, right side up as always!)
And lastly, stick to your gut when you say you have "no idea". That much is completely obvious. I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that all that fiber is already in place. In fact, most of it has been in place for years and years.. it's just laying their waiting to be used (see, "dark fiber")
oh wait, one more thing.. obviously you never did well in math class. When I say that Fairpoints customer service is twice as bad as verizon then it would not stand to reason that "it would be the same it is now".
Let me know if you want to know anything else. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile said by NHpublius  :You're welcome. Heres some more. Fairpoint communications was the very, absolute, no doubt about it, LAST company that Verizon chose for this sale. So, when the sale falls through they won't just look for another buyer... Their won't be any others. Check on Citizens and Embarq communications.. They were MUCH better poised to buy the three states than Fairpoint, but they saw right through everything. They know it is a horrible deal. Why is it a horrible deal? Because it's unprofitable, or because the price is too high? If it's a matter of price, then it's a matter of lowering that price to sell to another. If it's unprofitable then you've just contradicted exactly what you say in the next paragraph. Either way, you've obviously drank the kool aid..
said by NHpublius :Second, Maine, NH, and Vermont are among the top 5 most profitable properties in the Verizon footprint. They are marketing and installing FIOS in their least profitable states (Mass, Rhode Island, and New Jersey) in order to finally make some type of a profit. Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the case. Verizon is dumping all their profit centers to boost capital spending in all the places they don't make money. There's a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you...
said by NHpublius :Third, most of the copper in the farther reaches of all three states are in such bad condition that they need to be replaced fully. There are many, many homes in areas that already have DSL access that are less than a mile from the Central office, but cannot receive service because the lines are so screwed up. So, replacing that copper with Fiber is cost effective. (look at me, right side up as always!) Not if you're not going to replace the copper, regardless if you're customers can get DSL or not.
said by NHpublius :And lastly, stick to your gut when you say you have "no idea". That much is completely obvious. I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that all that fiber is already in place. In fact, most of it has been in place for years and years.. it's just laying their waiting to be used (see, "dark fiber") The cost of laying fiber isn't the long haul ("dark fiber") it's the last mile. There's no "dark" last mile fiber.
said by NHpublius :oh wait, one more thing.. obviously you never did well in math class. When I say that Fairpoints customer service is twice as bad as verizon then it would not stand to reason that "it would be the same it is now". The deficiency is in English, which would be incorrectly qualifying the first "it". "Fairpoints customer service" would be the same as it is now. Better?
said by NHpublius :Let me know if you want to "know " anything else. Fixed it for you.. | |
| | | | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
|  Re: Futile
Why is it a horrible deal? Because it's unprofitable, or because the price is too high? If it's a matter of price, then it's a matter of lowering that price to sell to another. If it's unprofitable then you've just contradicted exactly what you say in the next paragraph. Either way, you've obviously drank the kool aid..
Why? Because they are spending Billions of dollars just to acquire a company. A telecommunications company that has historically for the past ten years had declining revenue in Telephone service, and is making ho hum profits with DSL. Also, in order to get to that last 20% of rural homes in NH alone is going to be a very expensive, long, drawn out undertaking. That doesn't even include wiring, and installing DSL in nearly all of Maine and Vermont. In the short term (3-5 years) it's a money maker, but in the long term it's a losing proposition especially because Fairpoint is relying on old internet technology and does not intend to upgrade anything.
Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the case. Verizon is dumping all their profit centers to boost capital spending in all the places they don't make money. There's a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you...
Don't believe me? It's a financial fact. Sift through the Verizon financials to find out on your own. And you can keep your bridge.
Not if you're not going to replace the copper, regardless if you're customers can get DSL or not.
That makes no sense.
The cost of laying fiber isn't the long haul ("dark fiber") it's the last mile. There's no "dark" last mile fiber.
So, you've run the fiber that's in place? You have knowledge of what is up where? My guess is that you don't.. you're just pulling all of this out of your butt. Contrary to your popular belief, much of the fiber is already in place along every highway, major road, and thoroughfare. In most populated areas it's already in most of the neighborhoods. Wherever it isn't its basically just a matter of running a drop from the pole to the house. Don't speak to something you have no idea about.
The deficiency is in English, which would be incorrectly qualifying the first "it". "Fairpoints customer service" would be the same as it is now. Better?
Sure. So you would be happy with sub-standard service? Service that is even worse than Verizons?
So, I guess that's about it... Let me know when you would like to educated again.
Your pal,
NHPublius
| |
| | | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile said by NHpublius :Why? Because they are spending Billions of dollars just to acquire a company. A telecommunications company that has historically for the past ten years had declining revenue in Telephone service, and is making ho hum profits with DSL. Also, in order to get to that last 20% of rural homes in NH alone is going to be a very expensive, long, drawn out undertaking. That doesn't even include wiring, and installing DSL in nearly all of Maine and Vermont. In the short term (3-5 years) it's a money maker, but in the long term it's a losing proposition especially because Fairpoint is relying on old internet technology and does not intend to upgrade anything. Hence the "lower the price".
said by NHpublius :Don't believe me? It's a financial fact. Sift through the Verizon financials to find out on your own. And you can keep your bridge. I don't believe you, nor will I waste time looking it up, since Verizon would not still be in business if this is the business model they pursued.
said by NHpublius : Not if you're not going to replace the copper, regardless if you're customers can get DSL or not.That makes no sense. If you don't replace the copper it is less expensive, then upgrading to fiber.
said by NHpublius :So, you've run the fiber that's in place? You have knowledge of what is up where? My guess is that you don't.. you're just pulling all of this out of your butt. Contrary to your popular belief, much of the fiber is already in place along every highway, major road, and thoroughfare. In most populated areas it's already in most of the neighborhoods. Wherever it isn't its basically just a matter of running a drop from the pole to the house. Don't speak to something you have no idea about. Laugh, you can't just add drops from the pole to the house on a long haul fiber network.
said by NHpublius :Sure. So you would be happy with sub-standard service? Service that is even worse than Verizons? Not at all, what's that got to do with anything?
said by NHpublius :So, I guess that's about it... Let me know when you would like to "educated" again. You've certainly got a lot to teach about the use of logical fallacies. | |
| | | | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile I think I'm losing IQ points every time I read another one of your posts. Everything you say is backed by nothing but conjecture and guesswork. I suggest before you reply again next time that you actually do some research and educate yourself...
With that said, lets get into it again...
1) Verizon offered the northern states to Fairpoint for a slightly lower price than what was expected. I don't see 2.7 Billion as deal any way you look at it.
2) You overestimate Verizon and their business model. Yet again you speak to something you know nothing about
3) So if you don't replace the copper, then most of the areas that Fairpoint says they will upgrade will be not be upgraded....
4) You can place a drop where ever you want to. It's called fiber splicing.
5)What it has to do with anything is Fairpoint is statistically a lower ranking company in concerns to customer service than Verizon is.
6)"fallacies", huh? did you pull out your thesaurus for that one? If fallacies means "backed by fact" then I guess I'm guilty as charged..
Lastly, heres something else to chew on... Morgan Stanley just reduced it's rating on Fairpoint due to no confidence in their business plan....
Until next time,
your pal... | |
| | | | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH | Re: Futile I always find it interesting how quickly people like Aherni and Bostones1 shutup once they are bombarded over and over by the facts.... Where are you? | |
| | | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile Either you want me to stop posting or you don't.
Since you didn't actually bring anything up, I had decided not to respond. All you did was state the opposite of what I said, or that I was wrong.
1.) Nothing to do with them lowing the price in the future to attract more bids.
2.) Apparently reality has changed, and that's why I'm wrong..
3.) Yes, but what's that got to do with VZ not upgrading copper, vs the cost of upgrading to fiber? Nothing.. once again you just blather on..
4.) Just adding drops in the middle of a long haul fiber run is not going to work.. Otherwise I'll just go add a drop to the fiber line going right by my house.. That's been there for 15 years btw.
5.) Statistically lower ranking on average. How do you think they'll treat the customers they're forced to retain, on infrastructure they won't spend money to support. I imagine they'll need a new scale for how bad it will get.
6.) Logical fallacies: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
I'll leave it up to you to select the plethora (you can look that one up too) you've decided to use.
6b) ...or because they have a massive short position. | |
| | | | | | | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile Oh, I want you to stop posting, its just that your so darn entertaining.
Nothing has changed.. you know nothing about Verizon's business model.
Listen carefully.... You can add a fiber drop ANYWHERE within a fiber span... that includes the fiber right in front of your house.. but if it's been hanging there for 15 years it's probably not the best type of fiber to splice into (single mode vs multimode... go ahead and look that up)
They will treat customers that "they're forced to retain" the same as any other customer they have... that's part of their business model silly!
And lastly, Morgan Stanley is not just another firm looking for a short position.. They are Fairpoint's CHIEF financial adviser in this merger.. which means that Fairpoint hired them to look over this deal top to bottom to make sure it's in the best interest of Fairpoint and it's investors. They have access to intimate knowledge that we, as the public are not privy to.
hugs and kisses | |
| | ElJay
join:2004-03-17
·Great Works Internet
3 edits | The logic behind their argument makes no sense. The Verizon vs Fairpoint people are saying that since Verizon has proclaimed New England as "unprofitable," Fairpoint isn't going to be able to provide anything better. Is this still a capitalistic society we're operating in? Some businesses are run better than others and I don't think it takes much to be better than a clunker like Verizon.
Another argument they're using is that it's going to cost too much for the spinoff... Umm, that's not our problem. That's Fairpoint's problem, which I'm sure they've gone over with their bean counters already. Who cares if they have to change sinage and repaint the trucks? It's not like that hasn't happened before. Anybody remember NYNEX -> Bell Atlantic -> Verizon?
These people are too adverse to change for their own good. They'd rather stick with a known evil like Verizon instead of trying out Fairpoint (which may or may not turn out to be evil.) | |
| | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile It seems so easy for you to dismiss us all as "those people" Us people have friends and relatives currently served by Fairpoint. A majority of those people have had service under Verizon in the past, and they know without a doubt that Fairpoint is a significantly lesser company. Even current workers of Fairpoint that I have spoken to are amazed at just how bad Fairpoint deals with it's customers.
Verizon, being a large company may make some serious errors that cost money, but they have the wherewithal and drive to fix those errors. Companies like Fairpoint that are owned by investors looking to make the most for their buck consistantly screw their customers in the name of investor returns. | |
| | | | ElJay
join:2004-03-17
·Great Works Internet
1 edit | Re: Futile You seem to be missing the major point here:
Verizon says they're going to offer us nothing.
Fairpoint at least says they're going to offer something.
quote:
Companies like Fairpoint that are owned by investors looking to make the most for their buck consistantly screw their customers in the name of investor returns.
This can be said about pretty much any company, including Verizon!! | |
| | | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
1 edit | Re: Futile Futile, think of it this way... If Verizon says it can do something and then reneges on it's deal, the states, and such can hold them responsible and at a breaking point (ie this sale) force them to hold up their end of the bargain. But in Fairpoint's case, when they find out that this whole thing is WAAAAYYYY bigger than they originally, secondly, or thirdly thought it would be, their out of luck. They will have no recourse but to ask the government for more money or to raise rates.
How is it that the bottom of the barrel internet connection is better for you? Can you for a moment look 2,3,5 years into the future... what do you see with Verizon? A slow moving company that will eventually install what it wants... what do you see with Fairpoint? A company that will install DSL.... and nothing else! EVER... look into their past companies.... The first company that they bought still has DSL. It doesn't have IPTV.. it doesn't have any type of fiber rings... Hell, they don't even have any type of real deal that gives the consumer some type of break.
Here's an idea.. call fairpoint.. pick one of their rural phone companies that they own... tell the operator that you want to move into said community and ask her or him what the prices, packages, and deals are. Do not just settle for a base price. Ask what is extra (email addresses, "better" modems, faster speeds, tech support...) They are masters of providing as little as possible and then charging you for every little thing after that.
Verizon does not want to install DSL or much of anything to do with copper anymore in rural NH, ME, or VT... that's no secret... but they do want to offer something better. You have to be brain dead that they won't try to get away with as little as possible, but that doesn't mean that can't install DSL in more communities in northern areas.. but they would do that in conjunction with installing FIOS in more urban areas... It's a win-win for everyone. Eventually the two technologies will meet in the middle and overlap.
Don't be so short sighted as to sell the state out. | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| said by pnh102 :Verizon has made it very clear that it has no intentions of ever upgrading service in the parts of New England that it wants to sell off. Why are people still stuck on retaining Verizon if they want something that the company has guaranteed that it will not ever provide? Because the unions can't milk a smaller provider. Labor is the only thing that constantly goes up. And unions are forcing labor costs up. I know the cost of living is going up as well, but these huge increases are bad.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | | | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
| quote:
Because the unions can't milk a smaller provider. Labor is the only thing that constantly goes up. And unions are forcing labor costs up. I know the cost of living is going up as well, but these huge increases are bad.
That is complete BS. Salary increases for Union Workers run 1.5%-2.5% {varies year to year and by region}over the course of the current 5 year contract. The largest increase in the cost of labor is the rising cost of healthcare. That is determined by the insurance industry and faced by every company weather it uses Union or non-Union workers. The Executives are the ones who are milking the payrolls with the obscene amounts of money they are paid in bonuses and stock options every year.
| |
| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Futile Well guess what , until the boards and shareholders stop allowing it , the cost is still the labor !
You look at things you can control. You can not control the managements decisions unless you vote with your money.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | Laura Unger
Premium
join:2007-02-28
Montclair, NJ
| The Communications Workers of America is not looking to "milk" anyone. In New England and everywhere the Union is pushing for legislation to provide affordable, high speed internet for all. The fight against red-lining of neighborhoods is part of its overall campaign to make sure no one is left out. If you doubt the seriousness of their policy work on this check out their Speed Matters campaign (»www.speedmatters.org). Check out the bill CWA is fighting for in New York, which also forbids red-lining at »www.thealbanyproject.com/showDia···757#3916. | |
| | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| The only costs that go up are labor? Not quite. Technologies that aren't decade old actually cost more than the old stuff. (ie DSL vs FIOS)
So, do you think that any worker just ought to sit back and accept the lowest amount of money that a company would offer him or her? Should we all accept that big $10.43 that Fairpoint is offering for new employees at their new call center? Can you raise your family, pay your rent, move forward in any way possible with on $10 an hour? Keep in mind that K Mart, Mcdonalds, and the local grocerie store have starting pay at around $9 an hour.. so those that are installing, maintaining, and engineering the next generation internet systems in America should be paid as much as someone flipping a burger? | |
| | | |
See 6 replies to this post | |
| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile I'll mark it down..
May 17th, we actually agree completely.
One thing that drives me nuts about this whole thing is how VT and NH are constantly referred to as "New England". They're the least populous states (I'm pretty sure RI beats them) and verizon is aggressively rolling out FIOS throughout Mass and even southern NH. Take away Southern NH and NH is just a few ski resorts and lakes. | |
| | | | 
John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: Futile said by Ahrenl :...and verizon is aggressively rolling out FIOS throughout Mass and even southern NH. I can't find any Fios deployments much west of U.S. 495, with a few exceptions towards Worcester.
That is hardly "throughout Mass"...
--
A is A | |
| | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Futile Uhh, Littleton? So that's Northern and Central middle Mass, I haven't looked at the map recently enough to see if anything in southern middle mass has been wired. And by population percentage it absolutely is. Western Mass is a whole different world. I went to school out there, we couldn't even get cable TV. Forget internet. I did get to go to some kickass town wide brush burning parties.. seriously. | |
| | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| said by TKJunkMail :And what exactly do they win? It's looking like they win keeping existing union contracts, and nothing else.
I guess this alot like the anti-Globalization movement. 'very clever how Big Labor has been able to get the enviromental lobby, and others who ordinarily wouldn't care very much about them, to work toward protecting their monopolies in the labor market by endeavoring to block foreign competition. | |
| | mrks
join:2005-07-12
Lowell, MA | Parts of up state New York where a similar sale was blocked is now getting FiOS | |
| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| With all due respect the people of these three states have more than ample reason to be concerned about this proposed sale. Fairpoint is a tiny phone company that is attempting to acquire assets five times larger than their present size. Such a proposition is extremely risky that some would say is a bankruptcy waiting to happen. | |
| | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| "people" are still stuck on it because they KNOW that Verizon will install FIOS in areas where it counts. The north country of all three states have been served as much as they will be. The populated parts of all three states have already been served by DSL for years and years.. It's time for something new... that something new is Fiber, not copper.
visit www.verizonvsfairpoint.com for some news and chat on this subject. | |
| | |
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Futile said by NHpublius :It's time for something new... that something new is Fiber, not copper. Again though, Verizon is never going to provide fiber to these areas, ever. They have said it over and over again. What is the point of retaining Verizon if they will never, ever provide FIOS to these areas?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Re: Futile If you look back at some of Verizon's old quotes you will see that they said in 1998 that they did not plan to over DSL to over 50% of NH also... look how that worked out.
Verizon is CURRENTLY installing FIOS equipment in several communities in NH. You have no idea what you are talking about. | |
| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face Ok so the diots seem to be intent on stopping the deal, then what? Then the get nothing, no upgrades whatsoever. Verizon has to be laughing their asses off. On another note if the Fairpoint representatives was really in tears after meeting, then they need to send a real ballbuster in next time because she is not going to cut it.
Are you crying? Are you crying? ARE YOU CRYING? There's no crying! THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!
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»www.seabee.navy.mil | |
| | sd70mac666
join:2003-06-05
Saint Albans, VT | Re: Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face I can tell you this, my states Public Service Board already hates Verizon, but with a spinoff like this you can bet they are keeping a close eye on this | |
| | NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| The idiots? Do you even have an inkling of an idea about the sale? Do you even live in one of the three states? Have you ridden this whole thing out for the past 10 years? I'm sure answer is no. You are speaking out of your ass.
When this deal doesn't pass it what will follow will be the EXACT same thing that happened in NY. Verizon wanted to sell, consumers, politicians, and employees (union and management) fought the proposed deal and Verizon pulled out before it got even this far. Now, verizon is installing FIOS in those same areas they said were too rural to care about.
Verizon upper management are in fact not laughing their asses off. They have begun to engineer and install FIOS upgrades in certain areas.. doesn't sound like a company that wants this to fall apart.. instead sounds like a company that's just waiting for this to fall apart so they take advantage of new cable franchising laws. | |
| 
batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| You don't know what you got untill it's gone. Even if the sale does not go through New England got such a bitch slapping by Verizon they will fall into line.
The clowns that run the utilities commission better start taking care of business and stop the B.S.
quote:
Privacy advocates and consumers spent the afternoon waiting for Verizon to respond to the Maine Public Utilities Commission’s request that it swear under oath to the truthfulness of its press releases. The response, filed after the PUC’s 5:00 pm deadline, revealed surprising news. In an unexpected move today, the US Department of Justice filed a lawsuit in federal court against officials of the Maine Public Utilities Commission and Verizon. The lawsuit seeks declaratory judgment to prevent Verizon from answering questions posed by the PUC earlier this month. The lawsuit also seeks to prevent any further investigation of Verizon’s collaboration with the National Security Agency Surveillance program.
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See 6 replies to this post | |
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Taxpayer Bailout? My prediction is that if this sale goes through Fairpoint asks for a taxpayer bailout within three years. | |
| 
BOGBS
Premium
join:2004-05-11
Saco, ME
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | Lesser of two evils I'd love for Fairpoint to take over.. Especially with how much debt (~1.7b) they'd be taking on just from the deal. This would certainly allow Fairpoint to deploy what they say they are going to. 
Verizon doesn't like to maintain lines too much around here, but who knows how Fairpoint will work on this. They are going to need have some big capital to upgrade existing line conditions in the state. In parts they have fallen to disrepair, having gauge changes in several segments, bridge taps, excessive length copper loops, and many more issues. I would personally like to see someone with some higher capital invest, but that would never happen either.
It seems to be a lose/lose issue, just a matter of how much loss there is. It's not only the unions that have something to lose, there's certainly other parties involved. Although smaller in size, CLECs and other associated parties can/will be affected as well. It seems as if no one here likes unions. Although they can be a pain in the ass, they are at least helping the employees. Obviously there's other issues with unions, but if they don't look out for the employees, Verizon certainly wouldn't, and neither would Fairpoint. Fairpoint couldn't afford to simply look out because of the debt. That and the supposed new positions they're going to have don't sound plausible.
On the fiber topic... Why would Verizon offer fiber optic services anytime soon? It seems they're trying to deploy the service in more profitable areas. If it were to come to this region in any mass deployment, it would be after their existing areas are starting to gain profit, one would think.
Prices for telco service are already high enough from Verizon. Who is going to have to pay for Fairpoint's shiny new debt? The consumers, and the union employees who no longer have a contract who start making 15/hr or somewhere around that. Either that, or they go under. That's obviously a made up figure, but these employees are paid what they are for a reason, for the most part.
It's not all FUD, as some would say... It's also the economics of the deal, as well as other contributing factors. | |
| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Can't Verizon just leave? I mean can't they just stop serving the area? Maybe its better to sell to Fairpoint than nothing at all.
That said, I understand how they feel. The only thing worse than a monopoly by a large company is a monopoly by a small company. | |
| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | Re: Can't Verizon just leave? No, Verizon can't just leave because that's against the law. It really wasn't that long ago that Bell Atlantic (now Verizon) needed approval from these same three states to acquire NYNEX. Bell Atlantic made the same kind of promises then that Fairpoint is making now. It's not like Verizon is offering to sell its NYC metro area business due to financial problems. | |
| NHpublius
join:2007-05-18
Manchester, NH
| Looking for a few good men or women I've seen the back and forth on this site and would like to suggest to everyone that they visit another site and continue this rapport with others more closely ingrained in the issues.
Please visit www.VERIZONvsFAIRPOINT.com for more in depth information on the issues. click the Discussion link to visit the discussion part of the website.
I strongly encourage everyone, regardless of their stance on the the sale to discuss their opinion on the sale. I believe in debate and I believe that the site will give everyone a great opportunity to speak their mind in an open board.
www.VERIZONvsFAIRPOINT.com | |
| tolimj
join:2007-05-23
Center Conway, NH
| Fairpoint.......I don't think so You Fairpoint believers have accepted the wool pulled over your eyes. This is what Fairpoint says at the end of their press release of promises, quoted word for word;
This press release may contain forward-looking statements that are not based on historical fact, including, without limitation, statements containing the words "expects," "anticipates," "intends," "plans," "believes," "seeks," "estimates" and similar expressions and statements relating to potential cost savings and synergies expected to be realized in the proposed merger with the northeast wireline operations of Verizon Communications Inc. Because these forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, there are important factors that could cause actual results, events or developments to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements. Such factors include those risks described from time to time in FairPoint's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Are you kidding me??
I don’t know about you, but that’s not a company brimming with confidence and after completing copious amounts of research on Fairpoint, I know their reason for uncertainty.
If Verizon wants to sell off the Northern States so badly at least let us have a commendable company with solid experience and resources such as AT&T.
LET ME LEAVE YOU WITH THIS;
IF IT LOOKS AND SMELLS LIKE A SKUNK…………IT PROBABLY IS!!
LET’S MOVE NH FORWARD ….NOT BACKWARDS…….. | |
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New Englanders Fight For DSL Future
Futile
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