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story category Cox Tests DNS Redirection
Though they provide unimpacted DNS servers...
(old news - 09:40AM Saturday May 19 2007)
tags: business · networking
On the heels of similar efforts by Earthlink and Charter, it looks like Cox is the latest to tinker with a DNS redirection service in their Gulf Coast market, according to Cox engineers in our forums. Usually pitched as something helpful, such services redirect users of mistyped URLs to a splash page (this is what Cox's looks like), with the primary purpose of bringing in extra ad revenue for the ISP. Unfortunately the changes often break useful networking tools.

"During our trial, some customers with special DNS configurations (like some custom settings for company laptops used at home) may experience some errors," says a forum Cox technician. "Those with a need to work around these results pages can statically set their DNS to one of the following IP’s: 68.105.28.13 and 68.105.29.13."

Does any of the extra revenue generated by selling ads to wayward surfers (or selling user clickstream data) ever make its way to consumers in the form of cost savings?

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Forums » Cox Tests DNS Redirection
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korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:

OpenDNS all over?

Looks like they're taking cues from OpenDNS. I wonder if they'll offer phishing services as well.

81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

Re: OpenDNS all over?

dslextreme also tried it and failed when member started changing their review and giving them low ratings
--
i am not a lawyer but I do play one on tv

Jmartz

join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ

said by korym See Profile :

Looks like they're taking cues from OpenDNS. I wonder if they'll offer phishing services as well.
OpenDNS is useful though. Like »www.dslreports.con would redirect you to .COM. OpenDNS also has keywords that you just type in "weather" and it brings you to whatever you tell it to bring you to... in that example, you wuold go to the weather channel local forecast page for your area... It's actually very useful. But without the advertisements.

korym
Go Wisp's
ExMod 1999-03
join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA
clubs:

Re: OpenDNS all over?

That's why I use OpenDNS at the school where I maintain the network. Many useful features.

supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com


1 edit

I drop them over that and the rip-off

Cox here (Gulf Coast) added "permaboost" which really just makes you look like you are getting what you are paying for. I got a solid 12/1 connection before it. After it was 8/1 with downloads at 10 down. So, I was paying for 12/1 and getting 2/3rds the speed.

Surfing brought a lot of those Cox pages, full of frickin ads, if the URL didn't resolved fast enough. BellSouth hasn't that problem and I'm saving $25 a month over Cox.

I also never saw 1 mbps up mostly 500 up.

If you call and threaten to go DSL, they will drop your price in half for 2 months.

supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

Re: I drop them over that and the rip-off

Also, I noticed Yahoo IM didn't work a lot. It would all of the sudden lose connection.

They were definitely throttling YouTube.

Cox also had a search function on their page.

Cox used to allow it to go to google.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
Then call every 2 months and use other DNS servers unless you have a good alternative available.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

Re: I drop them over that and the rip-off

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Then call every 2 months and use other DNS servers unless you have a good alternative available.
Use your own PC based DNS service. I use treewalk to handle my DNS needs. It has worked without any problems for the last year. »www.ntcanuck.com/
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: I drop them over that and the rip-off

As far as DNS goes, it's one the of few things Verizon does right.

GlennAllen

join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
·Verizon FIOS

TreeWalk is great; I've been using it for quite a few years. Simply installing it, however, won't help someone much with this kind of stuff. TreeWalk will simply cache your successful lookups so that if/when your regular DNS server availability becomes "problematic", you'll still be able to find the sites you've visited before. New lookups will still go out to the next level DNS (the default being whatever you were using when you installed TreeWalk), and, as you'd expect, unsuccessful lookups--which is what you'd have here--won't be cached. Now, you could both install TreeWalk and point it to a higher level--or "real"--DNS to bypass DNS "redirection" sites and to avoid other non-spec DNS problems.

I don't know... does it really matter? If they're redirecting only browser requests, probably not. If they're screwing up non-browser requests, then probably so.

Either way, using something like TreeWalk is usually a good idea.
--
Wherever you go, there you are.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Then call every 2 months and use other DNS servers unless you have a good alternative available.
Use your own PC based DNS service. I use treewalk to handle my DNS needs. It has worked without any problems for the last year. »www.ntcanuck.com/
All of which assumes a provider never decides to do a transparent proxy of port 53. One of them will eventually try that.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.
zerog

join:2002-02-10
Dallas, TX

1 edit

Re: I drop them over that and the rip-off

it will likely come with the "save the children" package of internet restriction tools designed to filter out porn and meds sites...

btw.. Transparent DNS redirection will most certainly break LOTS of stuff...

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by nixen See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Then call every 2 months and use other DNS servers unless you have a good alternative available.
Use your own PC based DNS service. I use treewalk to handle my DNS needs. It has worked without any problems for the last year. »www.ntcanuck.com/
All of which assumes a provider never decides to do a transparent proxy of port 53. One of them will eventually try that.
A provider cant filter/block ports on the LOCAL side, only at the modem.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: I drop them over that and the rip-off

said by dvd536 See Profile :

A provider cant filter/block ports on the LOCAL side, only at the modem.
And...?

If your access to the Internet-at-large goes through my networks, I can do whatever the hell I want to your traffic. So, even if you point your DNS entries to OpenDNS, I can still redirect them to my DNS servers. So, do what you want inside your LAN, I really don't care. But, the moment you're sending packets beyond your LAN, they're mine to do with as I please.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.
the niTz
Premium
join:2004-07-05
Sahuarita, AZ

atleast

they give u the option to bypass it with out using 3rd party servers

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

All the complaints in the world isn't going to change the ISP trend of taking advantage of their customers to make a buck every chance they get.

While lame at least they're providing unaffected servers from day one. I remember when DSL Extreme pulled this crap and their customers blew their stacks. Of course later offering unaffected servers did little to shut them up.

There is ZERO benefit that will go to the customers. Cox will simply pocket the money because like all ISPs they're greedy whores. It's one thing to simply charge for the monthly service, it's quite another to take advantage of leech off customers mistakes to the detriment of the domain name system.

The ONLY thing that will stop this is customers cancelling. So who will be the first Cox customer to cancel over this? Any takers?
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Am I missing something here? I know it's a little annoying to be redirected after mistyping a URL, but as often as not you end up at a link farm anyways even without the redirect.

Unless it's causing actual problems aside from the minor annoyance of being redirected instead of a 404 error, I don't understand the outrage.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Wow! And you work for one of the major ISPs?

Maybe people like using their own default search engines which open up on a 404.

Maybe people like to have less spam and for their filters to work correctly and fail.

There are a number of 'technical' reasons why this is a horrible idea and why it's CONSTANTLY under scrutiny when ever any greedy company does this... It's not the job of an ISP to redirect traffic ANYWHERE other than where the user has intended OR mis-intended.

But seriously, I certainly am not surprised someone in your position wouldn't get it.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..."
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Oh no! I was redirected to an ISP page instead of a 404 error! The humanity! Now I'll have to look at an ISP page instead of a 404 screen for the 5 seconds it takes to retype the URL! The horror!

I can see how it would minor annoyance in the rare occasion that you mistype a URL, but the "OMG GREEDY EVIL ISP BASTARDS!" outrage seems disproportionate over what seems to me to be a pretty minor issue- especially when there are painless ways around it.

I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing; the complaints seem not to revolve around any technical problems caused, but by the fact that their using this to make a few extra bucks.

And just exactly how does this affect spam filters?
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Again, it's funny that you don't understand that...

You're wrong. Maybe in THIS particular forum people are focusing on the ads and the revenue, but just about every one in the past (usually posted on weekdays) HAVE in fact focused on the technical aspect of the DNS redirects.

The beauty of computers and websites with databased forums is you can look it up.. it's been talked about in great length here.

And, as I stated, it's NOT the job of the ISP to redirect mistyped domains.. it's not the point about the ads. The ISP are, in a single switch, disabling features of the web browser and the end user's software when they redirect all 404s to THEIR page. As I stated, when if I want to search from my address bar? The redirect takes that away. When spam filters do a reverse look up on the domain from spoofed emails, it reverts back and the domain resolves. There are MANY technical reasons why this is a bad idea.

If it was such a great thing, then why are they providing alternate DNS? Why was Network Solutions told to knock it off?

There are plenty of reasons why ISPs need to keep their hands off of 404 pages.

As I said, TODAY it may be focused on the ads and the "few bucks" but in every other posting it has all been about the technical aspect of it all.

"Oh no! I was redirected to an ISP page instead of a 404 error! The humanity! Now I'll have to look at an ISP page instead of a 404 screen for the 5 seconds it takes to retype the URL! The horror! "

I'm sure that all of the ISP suits are saying the same thing while on their way out to the country club for a liquid lunch and game of golf while "not getting it" either.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..."
zerog

join:2002-02-10
Dallas, TX

1 edit

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Ok, somebody help me out.. I'm confused about this tangential 404 thread. I was under the assumption that this was about "dns redirection upon failed dns lookups" which would seemingly have little to do with 404 errors or http redirection.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by fiberguy See Profile :

Again, it's funny that you don't understand that...

You're wrong. Maybe in THIS particular forum people are focusing on the ads and the revenue, but just about every one in the past (usually posted on weekdays) HAVE in fact focused on the technical aspect of the DNS redirects.

The beauty of computers and websites with databased forums is you can look it up.. it's been talked about in great length here.

And, as I stated, it's NOT the job of the ISP to redirect mistyped domains.. it's not the point about the ads. The ISP are, in a single switch, disabling features of the web browser and the end user's software when they redirect all 404s to THEIR page. As I stated, when if I want to search from my address bar? The redirect takes that away. When spam filters do a reverse look up on the domain from spoofed emails, it reverts back and the domain resolves. There are MANY technical reasons why this is a bad idea.

If it was such a great thing, then why are they providing alternate DNS? Why was Network Solutions told to knock it off?

There are plenty of reasons why ISPs need to keep their hands off of 404 pages.

As I said, TODAY it may be focused on the ads and the "few bucks" but in every other posting it has all been about the technical aspect of it all.

"Oh no! I was redirected to an ISP page instead of a 404 error! The humanity! Now I'll have to look at an ISP page instead of a 404 screen for the 5 seconds it takes to retype the URL! The horror!
If its not about the ads[sponsored which cox gets paid for] why not leave it alone or redir to cox.net? because there's no MONEY in that. uh huh uh huh.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
cghh

join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA

said by dynodb See Profile :

I can see how it would minor annoyance in the rare occasion that you mistype a URL, but the "OMG GREEDY EVIL ISP BASTARDS!" outrage seems disproportionate over what seems to me to be a pretty minor issue- especially when there are painless ways around it.

And just exactly how does this affect spam filters?
Other than short-circuiting your personal choice of a "404 handler" in your browser, the biggest problem with this perversion of DNS is a result of the fact that the Internet is a whole lot more than the World Wide Web!!! ALL Internet services that use DNS are broken by this behavior, not just web browsers; they can no longer handle unresolved DNS addresses in their own way, like trying alternative addresses and such.

Concerning spam filters, one common kind of filtering to verify that the From address is an existing domain, and with this broken behavior, ALL addresses come back "existing".

IPingUPing
N4BFR
Premium
join:2002-08-30
Smyrna, GA
clubs:

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Check the original forum post from coxengr See Profile.

»Gulf Coast test info

"These enhanced error results are designed to help the average user more quickly reach their web destinations, and only affect web page responses ('A' records to those in the know)."
cghh

join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA


3 edits

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

said by IPingUPing See Profile :

Check the original forum post from coxengr See Profile.

»Gulf Coast test info

"These enhanced error results are designed to help the average user more quickly reach their web destinations, and only affect web page responses ('A' records to those in the know)."
It may not effect the MX (Mail eXchange) records, but when there is no MX record for a host, e-mail systems fall back to look for A records, so the mail system will still be confused by the broken behavior. And essentially all other Internet services, such as FTP, telnet, and so on, look for A records. 'A' records are the generic result of a host name lookup, and are not specific in any way to web browsers, and have been used from the time the DNS system was invented, long before http was around. Saying that the change only effects web page responses is just plain wrong.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

said by dynodb See Profile :

Am I missing something here? I know it's a little annoying to be redirected after mistyping a URL, but as often as not you end up at a link farm anyways even without the redirect.

Unless it's causing actual problems aside from the minor annoyance of being redirected instead of a 404 error, I don't understand the outrage.
For most home users, it doesn't cause a problem. Where it causes real heartburn is if they do it to business subscribers. Outside of that, it's mostly a "principles" thing.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Well, since no one surfs the web while at work, it shouldn't be a problem

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

said by dynodb See Profile :

Well, since no one surfs the web while at work, it shouldn't be a problem
Has nothing to do with that. Has to do with the problems it can cause for infrastructure systems.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.
zerog

join:2002-02-10
Dallas, TX
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

Can someone post some specific examples of what this will break exactly?

In most corporate VPN scenarios, the corporate DNS servers are used during the VPN session and (usually) all traffic is routed through the corporate network.

I am certainly against such a practice unless the customers are fully aware and the practice can benefit the customer somehow (ie, through price breaks, increased speeds, etc)

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Re: Lame but unavoidable, all ISPs are whores

said by zerog See Profile :

Can someone post some specific examples of what this will break exactly?
Authoritative report presented to ICANN.

said by zerog See Profile :

In most corporate VPN scenarios, the corporate DNS servers are used during the VPN session and (usually) all traffic is routed through the corporate network.
Not every business runs their own DNS. Not even most do. Aside from that, if the connectivity provider decides that they well do a transparent proxy of port 53 traffic to capture DNS queries, your results will be modified, regardless of whether you run your own server.

said by zerog See Profile :

I am certainly against such a practice unless the customers are fully aware
"Effective immediately, the following change will be made. You have no recourse."

said by zerog See Profile :

and the practice can benefit the customer somehow (ie, through price breaks, increased speeds, etc)
Get real.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by dynodb See Profile :

Am I missing something here? I know it's a little annoying to be redirected after mistyping a URL, but as often as not you end up at a link farm anyways even without the redirect.

Unless it's causing actual problems aside from the minor annoyance of being redirected instead of a 404 error, I don't understand the outrage.
because a 404 isn't generating revenue off our backs which we see none of and you know how slow cox's DNS can be. i dont want 75% of my lookups to annoy me.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth

SimbaTLK1
Rawrrr

join:2001-09-07
Bethel Park, PA
clubs:

1 edit

Interesting...

All the complaints about Cox this and Cox that, while only halfway down the page in yesterday's news: »'A Cable Company People Don't Hate' Perhaps Cox isn't as loved as they want to believe.

--Matt

jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:

Re: Interesting...

i switched to opendns some time ago so i don't know how their new dns is.
--
www.LakeSemaJ.com
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus

Oh hell now...

Come on Cox, your network guys always seem to have prided themselves in trying to maintain a standards compliant network and now you go and pull a Verisign ? Nice job on listening to the bone headed idiot from with a BUSINESS school IT degree who knows jack about the network and just for a LITTLE bit more revenue.

I just HOPE they don't start foisting this stuff on the CBS customers. THAT would royally piss some folks off.
--
Prove it...

major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

BFD

What's the difference if you use OpenDNS or shitty Cox DNS. The only reason I found OpenDNS in the first place is because a website I frequent changed its DNS servers and Cox's never caught on and subsequently, wouldn't load the page. I thought the site was down for 2 months until I figured out it was Cox's dumbass servers.
xplicitmind

join:2006-02-15
Middletown, NY

Honestly...

I can't think of the last time I used my ISP's default DNS servers ... even with RoadRunner Premium, I still use Level 3's DNS Servers.

Level 3 DNS Servers

- 4.2.2.1
- 4.2.2.2
- 4.2.2.3

PS ... that's what all of you Verizon FIOS users have, because Verizon uses Level 3's DNS servers for its FIOS service...

Xplicit
Forums » Cox Tests DNS Redirection


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