 |
 | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: Interesting... 'Packet shaping' technology has been implemented for newsgroup applications, regardless of the provider, and all peer-to-peer networks and certain other high bandwidth applications not necessarily limited to audio, video, and voice over IP telephony.
You may want to read what they said again. From the above it looks like they have implemented it on applications that are audio, video, and VOIP. In addition, they have left it open to anything else they may want to do it to.
Sounds like a net neturality issue to me. | |
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| | 
Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Interesting... said by Skippy25  :You may want to read what they said again. I was only mentioning that I have seen my own torrents beat up, whereas newsgroups remain smoking fast. So as far as I can tell, for my ISP, I guess they're differentiating between torrent traffic from other data, including newsgroups.
--
....where's my fiber? | |
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buckingham
Buckingham Pa
join:2005-07-17
Buckingham, PA | Yea, and VoIP is not a "high bandwidth" application...quite the contrary. That one sounds more like a competitive play to me... | |
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
·RoadRunner Cable
| For those of us who are bandwith "hogs" and are tech savvy this is meaningless. With the right port forwarding settings in your router, this is easily worked around. The only people that will be affected are the ones who arent savvy enough to adjust said settings. | |
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| | 
swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Interesting... said by ph03n1x :For those of us who are bandwith "hogs" and are tech savvy this is meaningless. With the right port forwarding settings in your router, this is easily worked around. The only people that will be affected are the ones who arent savvy enough to adjust said settings.
Are you counting yourself among "tech savvy" people? Current shaping tech is not defeated by merely changing ports. It also looks at protocol signatures in the packets, traffic patterns and other factors. | |
|
BlackIceXP
join:2005-01-13
Port Orchard, WA
·wavebroadband
edit:
June 8th, @08:44AM
| Great! Now that TWC has opened Pandora's Box, I wonder how long it'll take them to implement this across all their market segments. I'll probably see this before I'll see those higher speeds that I've been wanting here in San Diego. Throw some invisible caps in there too while you're at it! 
(edit for early morning spelling corrections.)  | |
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| lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| Re: Great! Not only have they opened Pandora's box they also left open the idea of traffic shaping on VoIP and other applications. I work from home and rely on VoIP and VPN, if they started shaping based on protocols and ports for those technologies I would be screwed.
This is exactly why we need net neutrality laws. Certain things need protection from this crap. | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: Great! If you are "working" from home, use a business account. This isn't net neutrality at all if TW and other providers shape traffic across the board and don't diminish other providers' offerings in contrast to their own service offerings. | |
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| | | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: Great! I have an Earthlink account of TW Cable. I had them specifically note my account that work usage was permitted including VOIP.
I'd be really pissed if TW decided to packet shape my connection because I am not on a Road Runner account and Earthlink doesn't make this distinction. | |
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| | | 
BloodRoses
The Purple Faerie
Premium
join:2003-03-17
New York, NY
·Cox HSI
| Why? Working from home is a private matter. A business account is for people who make their connection public (i.e. small business servers).
--
Cheers,
Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: Great! Ok, then when you VPN connection to your employer is packet-shaped, then don't bitch if you are on a residential plan. | |
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| | | | | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: Great! First, the business/residential model no longer makes sense. Residential users now use technology that was regarded as business and vice versa. Exchange server, push mail, vpns, use to be the purvue of business, now they are commonly used for residential.
Second, when I gave up my naked DSL (which I can't get back) for Earthlink cable, I told them this was a deal breaker, went through the clauses with them and had it noted. The problem is most companies add a clause which lets THEM but not ME rewrite a contract at their pleasure.
Third, the distinction was drawn in a world where the lines between home and office were much better defined than they are today. The average non-clerical office worker works at home on a semi-regular basis. These contracts were a product of a different day.
Fourth, they are essentially a contract of adhesion. While Point I demonstrates that we have some power to protect ourselves, the industry has the power to change the contract at will.
My problem is not that they meter for truly excessive bandwith, it is that Time Warner seems to say that many uses such as VOIP are abusive, even if you only make ten calls a month on them. | |
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| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Great! My comment was directed at BloodRoses' statement, but I'll answer your points as well.said by stufried :First, the business/residential model no longer makes sense. It absolutely makes sense. Mail servers and VPN connections are nowhere close to commonly used by residential customers. Even so, use of those services are irrelevant IMO. The point of a business connection vice a residential connection is the increased level of support (maybe an SLA), less restrictions on what you can and can't do, and probably minimization of practices such as packet-shaping, capping, etc.said by stufried :Second, when I gave up my naked DSL (which I can't get back) for Earthlink cable If I were you, I'd speak to Earthlink about your concerns. Who knows, you may discover that TW's packet-shaping doesn't apply to you and you are worrying for no reason  said by stufried :The average non-clerical office worker works at home on a semi-regular basis. If you are using your connection for business, then you or your employer should be paying for a business account. If you are conducting business on a residential account, then you have no grounds to complain if it doesn't work.said by stufried :the industry has the power to change the contract at will. Of course they do, but you also have the option to dissolve the contract if you don't like the new change(s). | |
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| | | | | | | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: Great! On the exchange server point, I'd point out that mail2web.com is now giving away free exchange my account. As smart phones get even more popular push mail technologies such as Exchange are going to get more popular. Just look how many mobile companies are pressing personal Blackberry plans.
Beyond that I'll let the disagreement stand as it is. I don't want to get into a side fight. You're correct that Earthlink hasn't made these assertions and my only real concern is VOIP. They are not crippling VPNs or Exchange server and I can do my e-mail just off a basic DSL line. I had 512 down/128 up when I lived abroad and it worked fine. | |
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| | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Great! said by stufried :On the exchange server point, I'd point out that mail2web.com is now giving away free exchange my account. You do realize that isn't hosting your own Exchange server on your home connection right? That service is no different than Hotmail, Gmail, or your ISP's mail service. | |
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| | | | | | | | | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: Great! I recognize that I didn't put things clearly above because I wasn't drawing a clear distinctionb between hosting and accessing. I was referring to accessing an exchange server, accessing a vpn, and accessing a sip server. I was not referring to hosting. I would agree that hosting is different. Skip business v. home, hosting is barred by most TOS. | |
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tw subscriber
@cablevision.com | and you want me to sign a contract? is there a clause that if you abuse their , you can get out of contract? | |
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MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs: | Re: and you want me to sign a contract? There is no contracts with cable. | |
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tw subscriber
@cablevision.com | Re: and you want me to sign a contract? nope now they are offering a discount if you sign up. I live on Staten Island and TW is now offering a 5 % discount for signing a 2 year contract. I decided not to in order to keep my options open | |
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MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: and you want me to sign a contract? I'm sorry. You might be right. I had my rooommate order RR a few weeks ago. She said she got it for a year because I am probably going to be around for that long. i just thought that she didn't know what she was talking about seeing as how in Jan. I didn't have that option.
--
One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| said by tw subscriber :
is there a clause that if you abuse their , you can get out of contract? You could always read the contract to find out | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | unbelieveable. I see the Evil of the North has managed to find its way south of the border. this is truely a disappointing day. | |
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Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: unbelieveable. said by inteller :I see the Evil of the North has managed to find its way south "They have taken the bridge and the second hall. We can not hold them for long. Drums.. drums in the deep. We can not get out.. we can not get out....we can not get out..."
What if Sauron also brings you free healthcare...?
--
....where's my fiber? | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | Re: unbelieveable. free healthcare is not all its cracked up to be when it comes with a big side helping of pansyness. | |
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InfoTard
@rr.com
| said by Raptor :said by inteller :I see the Evil of the North has managed to find its way south "They have taken the bridge and the second hall. We can not hold them for long. Drums.. drums in the deep. We can not get out.. we can not get out....we can not get out..." What if Sauron also brings you free healthcare...? Its not free - it costs money to implement, and is paid for through massive government taxation.
Try again. | |
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| | | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: unbelieveable. Hah... you still pay that massive government taxation in the US for 'county' healthcare system which is unusable by those that pay into it. Its set for those that come across the borders into California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas and don't have an SSN. | |
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| | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| It won't be free, you'll be paying another payroll tax. Your pay tub could read like this:
Federal Income Tax: $605.00
Federal Medicare Tax: $41.60
Social Security Tax: $212.15
Social Medicine Tax: $212.15
On top of the payroll tax you'll have copays and you'll also need supplemental health insurance. Since employers would be paying a Social Medicine Tax they certainly wouldn't help to pay for the supplemental. | |
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| | |
Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: unbelieveable. said by lesopp :It won't be free, you'll be paying another payroll tax. Your pay tub could read like this: Federal Income Tax: $605.00 Federal Medicare Tax: $41.60 Social Security Tax: $212.15 Social Medicine Tax: $212.15 Hmm, my pay stub says:
Federal tax
Employment Insurance (Unemployment, etc--not healthcare related)
CPP (Canada Pension Plan)
Thats it! I'll get the CPP back, and the EI if I ever need the EI.
--
....where's my fiber? | |
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| | | BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by lesopp :It won't be free, you'll be paying another payroll tax. Your pay tub could read like this: Federal Income Tax: $605.00 Federal Medicare Tax: $41.60 Social Security Tax: $212.15 Social Medicine Tax: $212.15 On top of the payroll tax you'll have copays and you'll also need supplemental health insurance. Since employers would be paying a Social Medicine Tax they certainly wouldn't help to pay for the supplemental. Ok first fo all if you are paying $253 in SS and medicare taxes combined your paycheck is nearly $3300 gross. Even if it's for 2 weeks that's $85K a year. Quit your bitching you have it made. And I doubt that a "social medicine tax" would be $212.15 even bi-weekly. I can get a private pan cheaper than that.
Also a poor person making the 2009 minimum wage of $7.25 would be paying $935 a year for this. Most employers offer insurance cheaper than that. | |
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| | | qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA | Federal Income Tax: $605.00
Federal Medicare Tax: $41.60
Social Security Tax: $212.15
Family Plan Healthcare: $468.00
I'd rather see 212.15 ANY day! | |
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| 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
June 8th, @10:18AM
| said by inteller :I see the Evil of the North has managed to find its way south of the border. this is truely a disappointing day. And inevitable, given the actions of many P2P users who run their link at 100% 24x7 downloading and uploading music and videos that they will never listen to or watch.
»Re: About time
I run WASTE servers off my itty bitty cable connection and purposely use my bandwidth to full capacity. --
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
|
Blasterbator
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Jackson, MS | Let me summarize... i.e. - "The speed at which you can download pr0n may vary".
Hopefully someday we will have prices that better reflect actual usage of each subscriber. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Let me summarize... said by Blasterbator :i.e. - "The speed at which you can download pr0n may vary". Hopefully someday we will have prices that better reflect actual usage of each subscriber. If the traffic shaping doesn't work, pay per byte will be the next step.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: Let me summarize... We can only hope...at least as long as the pay-per-byte service isn't shaped. | |
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quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI | VoIP service degration? Hrmm... Packet shaping on VoIP.... Hope that includes their own VoIP solution.... | |
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| |
| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| said by quetwo :Hrmm... Packet shaping on VoIP.... Hope that includes their own VoIP solution.... If TW's VoIP service rides IP outside of their network's border then I agree with you that it should be shaped as well. If their VoIP service hits a switch and is no longer IP before leaving the network's border, then I see your question/statement as irrelevant. | |
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| | stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13 | Re: VoIP service degration? I don't like what they are doing with VOIP one little bit, but you can even maintain a 711 connection at their crippled speed. You just need QOS. As they start pushing this, more carriers will start offering G729 codecs as well which should help. | |
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| jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Nowhere did they say they're assigning a lower priority to VOIP traffic. Packet shaping doesn't automatically mean that everything gets slower, it's not that much different from the concepts of QOS. | |
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Anonymous1972
@vanguardms.com | About time I think it is aobut thime that a company implements this technology. Cox Communications alreadt does this and Comcast could learn a thing or two. | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: About time Comcast doesn't need to...they simply cancel those users. | |
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| BPLSUCKS
join:2006-04-26
Grand Ledge, MI
| I pay for my pipe and I will suck as much bandwidth from it as I want. This technology is horrid for places like mine where the node balance is even. In places where nodes are overloaded I can see bandwidth hogs being a problem. It should if at all be implemented on a case by case basis. Sounds like someone is either trying to get a contract or they have a score to settle with bandwidth hogs *oink oink*. I run WASTE servers off my itty bitty cable connection and purposely use my bandwidth to full capacity. I just hope the FCC wakes up and helps eliminate the "up to" speed advertisements and loophole. I'm paying for 6Mbps/356kbps connection not up to XX/XX. If I wanted to pay for "up to" then my rates that I pay should depend on what speed I am getting. | |
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kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: About time I hate to burst your bubble but no one gets guaranteed 6Mbps for $45/month. A dedicated T1 costs a couple hundred dollars and it only maxes out 1.5Mbps. Ever think that sharing might be exactly the reason you're getting such a discount in the first place? | |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | I see this impact my usage and I'll be cancel I'm in FiOS territory and unlike some TWC customers don't have to tolerate this BS. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo | Yet? "TWC currently does not employ any enforced bandwidth caps"
384Kb/s upload, UID/PWD off-network SMTP not permitted, now traffic shaping. Bring on the caps! | |
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| ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon BroadbandA..
·Packet8
·Vonage
| Re: Yet? said by fireflier :"TWC currently does not employ any enforced bandwidth caps" 384Kb/s upload, UID/PWD off-network SMTP not permitted, now traffic shaping. Bring on the caps! Heh, that's why I use POP3 to send my off-network mail to my off-network host accounts.  Works like a champ. | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Yet? While I like TWC's tech response better than Adelphia's, Adelphia DID allow us to SMTP off their network. Losing that capability kinda sucked. I was also getting 1Mb/s up before TWC "assimilated" me. Now I get less than 384K.
Granted, I'm not uploading a LOT of stuff, but geeze, is 1Mb that hard?
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com | |
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Dampier
join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY
| Newsgroups Are Throttled + Complaint Contact Info Actually, the reason I discovered this is that they -are- shaping newsgroup traffic. My Giganews account plummeted in performance, and when I tried an alternate provider and got the exact same throttling with no latency issues, I contacted TW and got written confirmation they are packet shaping newsgroups as well as p-2-p technology. This apparently began June 6th. Others across the country are now getting verbal confirmation from Level 3 tech support that suggests (along with the language of their e-mail) that this is going to be rolled out across the country.
I got another e-mail response this morning suggesting that complaints about this policy be directed to Road Runner's national management, another clue that this is not going to be a limited thing. My complaint is included below if folks want something to model theirs from:
date Jun 8, 2007 3:23 AM
subject Re: Newsgroups (KMM5263477C0KM)
Thank you for your response.
Thank you for your feed back about this issue. Please feel free to send this feed back to our Customer Care department to have this heard at an executive level. Our Customer Care department can be contacted at customercare@ndc.rr.com . I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause! My reply to their management:
I am writing as a customer of Road Runner since 1998 to complain about the implementation of the "network management tool" Road Runner has recently implemented to packet shape newsgroups, peer to peer, and other high bandwidth applications. There are many legitimate and completely legal uses of these services which have now been severely impacted by the implementation of this technology, making them nearly unusable at the "peak traffic times" Road Runner activates this technology.
What is particularly upsetting to me is that I pay an extra fee to Time Warner Cable every month for your "premium" level of service which is supposed to provide speeds approximating 15mbps down/1mbps up. The reason I pay an extra fee is to enjoy this higher level of service and compensate Time Warner for the additional impact I may place on the network while utilizing those services. That level of service has now been rendered completely useless and I can see no need for Time Warner to continue offering it if you are going to handicap your users' ability to rely on the speeds advertised.
When your packet shaping technology is in use, thruput on those services has dropped to nearly 400kbps, far less than the level of service I had with a basic, standard Road Runner account. This kind of performance is completely unacceptable, and as more and more broadband video applications rely on the kinds of peer-to-peer or newsgroup-style traffic which you feel a need to "manage," the ability of your customers to use those completely legal services becomes nearly impossible.
Road Runner has always marketed itself as the fastest high speed experience in my area. That is clearly and unequivocally no longer the case, even with the slower advertised speeds your local DSL competitor advertises. With your "network management tools" in place, their marketing department can now legitimately advertise DSL as providing a far faster user experience, something that can be easily demonstrated using common Internet applications that are now being heavily "managed" by Road Runner.
I strongly urge you to expand your network to meet the ever-growing needs of your customers who, like everyone else, are being marketed legal and fully legitimate applications which require the kinds of bandwidth that Time Warner itself has always marketed as being available from Road Runner. That clearly is no longer available from a company that has chosen to throw roadblocks up for their customers instead of properly managing and growing their network to meet the needs of your customers. | |
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dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
Oxford, AL | Re: Newsgroups Are Throttled + Complaint Contact Info I am glad I am not with roadrunner anymore. If I was my account would be closed. I hope ISP's are ready to take a hit over this. Once upon a time RR was a good isp. | |
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Anomus
@rr.com
 from:
asellus
| Re: Newsgroups Are Throttled + Complaint Contact Info Well, so far my cantenna connections to my neighbors RR are still running strong. I guess I will soon find out how good all this packet shaping jazz turns out to be. There are those mouthing off about how I will eventually get caught and all that jazz but I know its just not the case. But this packet shaping stuff could be a problem for me. There is a new version of my p2p app making the rounds. I can only hope it has packet shaping buster built in, or I may have to settle for the slower DSL connections my cantennas also see. Bummer, and I was looking forward to those 10Mb/s speed upgrades. | |
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| drpaladin
join:2004-06-06
New York, NY
| "When your packet shaping technology is in use, thruput on those services has dropped to nearly 400kbps, ..."
I WISH I had 400Kbps.
I'm currently averaging 7.9kbp/s for bittorrent downloads, and btw, RoadRunner's f**ked up traffic shaping implementation apparently identifies Applestore video downloads as 'torrents'. Tried to d/l the last episode of Scrubs - usually takes 20 minutes - now reading 6 hours! | |
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ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
| gaming and torrents As soon as my gaming/torrents is affected I will have no need for internet. I use my Treo650 to get email, IM, weather, movie times, & googlemaps. I wish there was a way to get customers to actually band together. Don't pay TWC bill for 2 months and let company feel the pinch. | |
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| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Re: gaming and torrents said by ossito16 :As soon as my gaming/torrents is affected I will have no need for internet. I use my Treo650 to get email, IM, weather, movie times, & googlemaps. I wish there was a way to get customers to actually band together. Don't pay TWC bill for 2 months and let company feel the pinch. Not paying your bill for 2 months will just get you disconnected for non-pay. I suggest you follow Dampier's lead and write a letter to upper management.
--
»www.seabee.navy.mil | |
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| | ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
| Re: gaming and torrents said by JSRoman :Not paying your bill for 2 months will just get you disconnected for non-pay. I suggest you follow Dampier's lead and write a letter to upper management. See what happened to Amp'd mobile when people did not pay there bills, Chapter 11. | |
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Time Warner Cable Implements Packet Shaping?
