 PhoenixDown-- Wants FIOSPremium join:2003-06-08 Fresh Meadows, NY kudos:1 | Roll It Out Faster! Full steam ahead, lets that get that fiber run. | |
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 |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Re: Roll It Out Faster! ...and for the people in areas not scheduled for FiOS deployment... screw them?
Yeah, let all the Verizon DSL customers' lines get worse and worse... no need to maintain the copper for all those customers, right?
It's ok though! The few outweigh the many... wait...  -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 |  |  Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Roll It Out Faster! said by dadkins:...and for the people in areas not scheduled for FiOS deployment... screw them? Yeah, let all the Verizon DSL customers' lines get worse and worse... no need to maintain the copper for all those customers, right? It's ok though! The few outweigh the many... wait... You know what I could care less about existing DSL customers. Verizon just laid FiOS in my area because I couldn't even get DSL. So as far as I'm concerned no service has greater importance than old service.
Perhaps they shouldn't abandon things out right but at the same time I don't feel abandond anymore now that I can get something in competition with Cox here (besides lame sat. service). -- »www.fairtax.org | |
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 |  PhoenixDown-- Wants FIOSPremium join:2003-06-08 Fresh Meadows, NY kudos:1 | No, roll it wherever the plant conditions warrant replacement along side the schedule areas. -- Mass Transit Sucks! | |
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 |  |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Re: Roll It Out Faster! Where was that... New Hampshire? Where Verizon just plain sold their DSL customers out?
Don't want to maintain the copper... sell it! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 |  |  |  Ahrenl join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA | Re: Roll It Out Faster! said by dadkins:Don't want to maintain the copper... sell it! Tell that to the union's who won't let them. (Again a Fairpoint example) | |
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 |  NY TelPremium join:2004-04-09 Smithtown, NY kudos:3 Reviews:
·AT&T CallVantage
| said by PhoenixDown:Full steam ahead, lets that get that fiber run. Already have mine....True Qam  | |
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 |  | | If your in a city that will never get fiber deployment? | |
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 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| WW2 wires... From my experience, much the pole-mounted punchboxes and trunks (in my old neighborhood) date back to the late 40's and 50's. The trunk has seen its day: cracks, fatigue, oxidation...who would want to replace the copper with more? I wonder how many households do not have a cellphone? So, what is the point of maintenance when you will eventually replace the mains with glass? (One of my techs, er I mean Verizon techs, would come out every spring and fall to repunch the noisey lines. That has to cost ALOT...in labor alone...) | |
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 |  tc1uscg join:2005-03-09 Saint Clair Shores, MI 1 edit | Re: WW2 wires... said by cableties:I wonder how many households do not have a cellphone? So, what is the point of maintenance when you will eventually replace the mains with glass? (One of my techs, er I mean Verizon techs, would come out every spring and fall to repunch the noisey lines. That has to cost ALOT...in labor alone...) Here we go again, someone who thinks cell phones are the answer to everything. I can't wait till the first fiber cut that shuts down a large area of VZ's network for a few hours. Including TV.. OH MY GOD! What do we do now? Wait, we can call aunt milly and.. oh darn, that vz cell isn't working because the lone cell site that covered our area is dead due to the fiber that carried that call from the pop site to the CO has gone dark.. Now what? CALL SAM on the nations most reliable network!!!  | |
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 |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by cableties:From my experience, much the pole-mounted punchboxes and trunks (in my old neighborhood) date back to the late 40's and 50's. The trunk has seen its day: cracks, fatigue, oxidation...who would want to replace the copper with more? Understandable, but not really the point. The point is that they have regular customers who have POTS and DSL services on that existing infrastructure, and in areas where they have not begun installing FIOS. By refusing to maintain the infrastructure, these people are in effect abandoned... But I'm sure they are still being billed. As the line conditions worsen, the DSL service degrades and becomes slow and eventually not-sustainable. And let's not even think about dial-up over noisy lines---- uggghhh
There's nothing wrong with deploying FIOS, but you need to keep your existing infrastructure in decent shape until you've replaced it. Then retire it. Not before! -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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 |  | | Re: Says a group who stands to make money I would agree, but you can take the customer's word.
"Customer complaints in West Virginia have soared 60% since 2001." | |
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 |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 1 edit | Re: Says a group who stands to make money Since 2001...the number of customers could have increased 60% since 2001. If I have 100 customers in 2001 and 150 in 2007, I would expect, if everything is the same to have a 50% increase in the number of complaints because I have a 50% increase in the number of customers.
The question would be has the rate of complaints PER SUBSCRIBER (or per 1000 subscribers) changed appreciably since 2001. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: Says a group who stands to make money good point, but chances are their voice customers have DECREASED (say from 100 to 75). so reverse your point and that's the situation.
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 |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 1 edit | Re: Says a group who stands to make money True...who knows what the real story is. But I'm sure I'm not going to get it from the telco or their union. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: Says a group who stands to make money ok, but you are also willing to ignore or discount west virginia's complaints? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 2 edits | Re: Says a group who stands to make money As I see it from the VZ forums, complaints are nothing new...meaning I don't see any evidence that VZ is purposely letting copper go to hell to get people to get FTTH or any other purpose. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA | Re: Says a group who stands to make money They could be trying to make MORE work for them (them being the union). | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Whome join:2005-10-10 Newbury Park, CA | Here is the REAL story, Verizon is not spending money on copper plant, unless the repair or addition is absolutely necessary or mandated, Period. Wirelines are a shrinking business and they will not invest in a shrinking business, so what I read in the article is true. All spending is going towards FiOs, any area that will not turn a profit with FiOS will be sold off. This is a calculated business decision. Wall street is looking at their stock and that mean FiOS. | |
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 |  |  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by ColorBASIC:If I have 100 customers in 2001 and 150 in 2007, I would expect, if everything is the same to have a 50% increase in the number of complaints because I have a 50% increase in the number of customers. Heh, but your company would really have to be screwing up royally to have 100% of every new customer complaining, don't you think?
If you gained 10,000 customers and also had 10,000 complaints I don't think that's much to be proud of.
I'm sure the CWA is concerned about its members being laid off because of the lack of work caused by Verizon refusing to maintain the infrastructure, and rightly so.... but the customers don't have any vested interest, and they seem to be saying "Things are going to hell here with Verizon"  -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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 |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 1 edit | Re: Says a group who stands to make money No, percentage increase. If you have 1/3 of the people complaining at 100 customers (33) and 1/3 of the people complaining at 150 customers (50), that isn't 100% of the increase complaining.
Other than CWA claims, I'm not seeing any evidence that Verizon is "refusing" to maintain their copper. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 Reviews:
·Charter
1 edit | Re: Says a group who stands to make money said by ColorBASIC:No, percentage increase. If you have 1/3 of the people complaining at 100 customers (33) and 1/3 of the people complaining at 150 customers (50), that isn't 100% of the increase complaining. Other than CWA claims, I'm not seeing any evidence that Verizon is "refusing" to maintain their copper. fact: wire line subscriptions for telcos are down. fact: west virginia noted 60% increase in complaints.
math: 60% increase in complaints = 60% more complaints now. it's not that difficult to connect the dots unless you have motivation not to. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 2 edits | Re: Says a group who stands to make money I looked at the article, where are you getting 60% increase in complaints from. I missed it. But I'm a bit distracted listening to the WWDC keynote and didn't reread the article word-for-word.
I also missed in the article where wire line subscriptions are down. I've seen general articles about POTS losses but I've seen general articles about massive DSL adds. I'm also not seeing what the general type of complaint is (bad POTS service vs bad DSL service, vs customer service vs billing, vs missed appointments).
I'm not doubting that telco service sucks, which is why I'm with Time Warner and not Verizon FiOS...but I am just not connecting the dots between what is claimed in the article and Verizon refusing to maintain copper.
Seems they/you are drawing a conclusion (the "refusals") that isn't the only explanation for the complaints; meaning those dots there are pretty far apart.
All I'm seeing is the union worker claims...not of which substantiated by a source that doesn't stand to make some money either way. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  DolganPremium join:2005-10-01 Sun Prairie, WI | Re: Says a group who stands to make money Not our fault that you have no clue as to what is happening with Verizon Copper Plant. Maybe if you took off your anti-Union goggles you might actually see this as the customer service issue it actually is. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 1 edit | Re: Says a group who stands to make money Sucky customer service is a different issue than "refusing" to upkeep the copper.
But sorry if I don't take the Union at their word...we know how they're so truthful and have only the customer's interest at heart and all. 
-- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  |  |  | | If you had an increase from 100 to 150, you would have a 67% increase, not 50. This isn't a statistics class so I'll spare details, but if you saw a 67% increase (or 50% increase), statistically you actually have a greater problem since the bell curve will govern the rate of customer complaints.
You are right that the meaningful number is a compairson of the rates (per 1000 customers or what ever metric you want to use) not overall complaints. | |
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 |  |  |  |  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA 2 edits | Re: Says a group who stands to make money No, 100 to 150 is a 50% increase.
150 - 100 = 50
100 / 50 = .5
.5 = 50%
or
100 + (50% * 100) = 150
100 + 50 = 150 | |
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 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| This makes me Feel all warm and fuzzy. I'm moving in the next few weeks back into former Adelphia (Now Comcast) country and have two choices. Comcast 4/384 or Verizon (or resold Verzion) 3/768. FIOS may or may not be deployed there in the near future. So that pretty much eliminates the DSL options, now doesn't it. Well, can always give them a shot just for fun. -- Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
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 |  CabalPremium join:2007-01-21 Austin, TX Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| Re: This makes me Comcast doesn't offer 4/384 on new/moved accounts anymore. The cheapest package is 6/384 with Powerboost down and (probably) up. -- Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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 |  |  | | Re: This makes me That is odd, I just called yesterday about it. $44.95 for max speed of 4/384. Next was the 6/384. -- Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
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 PaladinSage of the light join:2001-08-17 Chester, IL | What about Rural areas? I'd say Illinois is one of the few states where I have heard NOTHING of FIOS deployment. It may be time to call 140 West St. and find out a good explanation of what the heck is going on. I'm wondering if we aren't going to be a sell off in the Verizon territory in far southern Illinois. In that case, we should build our own municipal fiber optic network and be done with it. -- First rule of fiber optics: you do not talk about fiber optics! | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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 Subaru1-3-2-4Premium join:2001-05-31 Greenwich, CT | I'm in a FIOS area.. Had Fios installed for my aunt then I moved and no Fios but crappy copper.. but now my 1 year is up with Verizon and it's time to switch.. I can't take the random disconnects or craptastic speeds not able to go over 50kb/s | |
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 |  JulioBachatero y Que?Premium join:2003-03-19 Brooklyn, NY kudos:1 | Re: I'm in a FIOS area.. Do you need a room mate? | |
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 |  |  jester121Premium join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: I'm in a FIOS area.. Screw that -- does your aunt need a roommate? She's the one who already has the fiber. | |
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 |  |  |  JulioBachatero y Que?Premium join:2003-03-19 Brooklyn, NY kudos:1 | Re: I'm in a FIOS area.. said by jester121:Screw that -- does your aunt need a roommate? She's the one who already has the fiber. lol good point. -- Join the BBR MLB 2K7 League The internet is a series of tubes.. | |
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 MysticGogetaThe Robot DevilPremium join:2005-03-14 League City, TX | Shocking?
I live in a area where they have let copper deteriorate (Ex-GTE) and known it for almost 10 years. -- Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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 |  | | Re: Shocking? I put up with an noise on my line for 2 months while waiting for the Verizon underground crew to come replace my cooper that had gone bad. Lots of promises to call me back and give me an idea when they would come, but never got any information. FIOS not available for another year in my neighborhood, so now I have phone service through my cable company. | |
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 batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Copper must die. Copper=CLECs=rats that whacked Ma.
quote: Come out and take it, you dirty, yellow-bellied rat, or I'll give it to you through the door.

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 | | Opportunity for cablecos! This is an opportunity for cable companies to fill the void! Once customers get addicted to NOT paying the slurry of taxes, fees and surcharges for POTS copper phone lines they'll never go back! Probably not even for FIOS! | |
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 |  | | Its true I could tell when i get an outage every month or every other month they forget to get me back when they do there upgrades. | |
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 | | I thought Verizon was the best thing since sliced bread? ...Or at least that's what the unions up here in New England are telling us in regards to the Fairpoint sale. | |
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 | | No problem in the lobstah state! What is all the hub-bub? Here in Maine, where we have state of the art lines in every town and back bush, Verizon has kept the phone lines in tip-top shape and t6he DSL is the best. Now a fine company called Fairpoint is coming in and we're all excited, looking forward to that same reliable service, for many years to come. We don't even know what FIOS stands for, and don't even want it. I guess we're the exception, from what I've read.
*snicker* | |
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 | | Gotta love the big boys see the problem is that we will always need copper, but they fail to see that within the next 50 years not everything will be fiber... so sad that a company this big has a closed mind.... NEVERMIND THEY ALL DO! | |
|
 | | So... Uverse isn't looking that bad now, is it? | |
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 |  Ahrenl join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA | Re: So... said by bogey780:Uverse isn't looking that bad now, is it? Uverse was never looking bad NOW.. It's looking bad in 5 years.. 
Fortunately they should be able to leverage it into full FTTH, at least from what I've heard. | |
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 |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: So... said by Ahrenl:Uverse was never looking bad NOW.. uh, unable to watch/record more than 1 HD channel at once. that's pretty bad. | |
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 |  |  | | FTTC FTW...
Seriously... VDSL2 is great. Has the bandwidth of FiOS with all the benefits of FTTN. | |
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 Rob AJets AFC ChampionshipPremium join:2005-01-17 Pompton Plains, NJ | Please bring me fiber! So many TV and Radio commercials for Fios, yet still no fios here! | |
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 |  Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Please bring me fiber! said by Rob A:So many TV and Radio commercials for Fios, yet still no fios here! Tell me about it! Verizon's Fios deployment travels in the the low trucking gears slow, slower, and REALLY F---king SLOW!!!
Fortunately my town is a picked cherry! Doesn't mean that if Verizon pisses me off to no end that I wouldn't jump ship for the cable company!! | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Please bring me fiber! Good thing i dont have DSL or fiber.
I bet ill get at least 3 MOVE YOU RETARD replies.
I cant move. And im pissed. | |
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 | | Isn't Just Verizon - The Same Situation Exists With Others This isn't just a problem with Verizon, it's a problem with many ILEC's. | |
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 rody_44Premium join:2004-02-20 Quakertown, PA | oh well and here i didnt think verizon actually ever really maintained the lines/ | |
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