60127178 (banned)K.U. Sweet 16 join:2001-02-15 Wichita, KS |
60127178 (banned)
Member
2007-Jun-20 4:38 pm
How Much?I wonder what the invisible cap for ATT will be? 5gigs like Verizon? AND...It will be alot of fun to stream over EDGE | |
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67845017 (banned) join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL |
67845017 (banned)
Member
2007-Jun-20 4:42 pm
It's a business"Obviously AT&T will make an exception here (this will adhere to their "wireless content standards"), but it's amusing how these restrictive 3G EULAs we as consumers are bound to suddenly disappear when it comes time to sell product."
It's known as running a business. No matter how many years go by, this place with its uber-liberal anti-business thinking never ceases to amaze me. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
5 recommendations |
KrK
Premium Member
2007-Jun-20 5:13 pm
Re: It's a businesssaid by 67845017:It's known as running a business. No matter how many years go by, this place with its uber-liberal anti-business thinking never ceases to amaze me. No it's known as dishonesty, unethical, misleading behavior. Sometimes known as deceptive advertising.... Such as advertising "Unlimited Use" and then buring the fact it's capped and really extremely limited in the small print of some contract. Run a TV ad showing a feature, and then forbid them from using that feature once they actually buy the service. Actually, now that you mention it, you're quite right. Apparently this is the norm for these types of businesses these days. No matter how many years go by, this place with its anti-consumer, screw-the-customer, loot, steal and burn the people's money pro-business thinking never ceases to amaze me. | |
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| | moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
1 recommendation |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2007-Jun-20 5:52 pm
Re: It's a businessDING DING DING!!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!
It's deceptive advertising. Plain and simple. | |
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| | | S_engineer Premium Member join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL |
Re: It's a businessNot neccessarily, all EULAs carry "we reserve the right to change as we see fit" addendum. This always means that they can tap another revenue stream. These changes are probably already written by the 1000 cryptic lawyers that write these agreements.
...at the end you'll see "do as I say, not as I do!" | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
1 recommendation |
pnh102 to KrK
Premium Member
2007-Jun-20 9:26 pm
to KrK
said by KrK:No it's known as dishonesty, unethical, misleading behavior. Sometimes known as deceptive advertising.... It should always be known as deceptive advertising! Any provider that advertises unlimited service should be punished if they do not provide anything less than unlimited service. If a provider wants to impose caps or limits, just say what they are up front. How hard is that? | |
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| | | ColorBASIC8-bit Fun Premium Member join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA |
Re: It's a businesssaid by pnh102: If a provider wants to impose caps or limits, just say what they are up front. How hard is that? Evidently very difficult for Verizon and Comcast. | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2007-Jun-20 9:36 pm
Re: It's a businesssaid by ColorBASIC:Evidently very difficult for Verizon and Comcast. Well to be fair to Comcast, at least they do not advertise their service as being "unlimited." Verizon Wireless still does, and should be sanctioned if they continue cutting off users. | |
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| | | | | ColorBASIC8-bit Fun Premium Member join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA |
Re: It's a businessWhen they (Comcast) first started sending out nastygrams, they did. | |
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| | | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2007-Jun-20 11:25 pm
Re: It's a businesssaid by ColorBASIC:When they (Comcast) first started sending out nastygrams, they did. I suppose the fact that they no longer do that can be considered "progress" LOL. | |
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| | | | | mackjr join:2006-04-14 Bayonne, NJ |
to pnh102
Having just bought the Verizon Wireless data plan in question...they are not hiding the cap by any means. It is on every single page that references the plan, and the sales reps will mention it to you when talking about the plan. I agree it's probably better to refer to it as the "5GB Plan," but they are certainly not hiding the details on the cap. | |
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Re: It's a businessMy experience with Verizon was opposite. 3 out of 4 sales reps I asked insisted that "unlimited" really meant unlimited. When I pointed out the clear statements to the contrary in their brochure, they said to ignore it; that Verizon really doesn't care what you do as long as you stay under 5 GB cap.
I think the 5GB cap is great, if that's all there is to it. What bugs me is all the roundabout language, restricting particular applications, and saying the 5GB quota is really just an "indicator" that those other terms are being violated. If this is just a word game to let them continue advertising a 5GB plan as "unlimited," I'm fine with that. What bothers me more, as an application developer, is that Verizon appears willing to let a lot of cheating go on, while waiting to step in and demand a piece of any application that achieves success. | |
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to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by KrK:No it's known as dishonesty, unethical, misleading behavior. Sometimes known as deceptive advertising.... It should always be known as deceptive advertising! Any provider that advertises unlimited service should be punished if they do not provide anything less than unlimited service. If provider wants to impose caps or limits, just say what they are up front. How hard is that? iPhone is CRAP! This is another reason why NOT to waste money on this product. Good luck Apple, the iPOD had less issues. It's a shame it has to be this restrictive on PDA type devices. SERO unlimited data kicks butt!!! | |
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to 67845017
said by It's known as running a business. No matter how many years go by, this place with its uber-liberal anti-business thinking never ceases to amaze me. [/BQUOTE :
Exactly this. | |
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to 67845017
You say that, until of course they set a per month cap and start charging 5 cents a kilobyte after that cap. | |
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| ColorBASIC8-bit Fun Premium Member join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA |
to 67845017
It's known as false advertising and liberals and conservatives alike should be pissed and hold these companies accountable for the lies these companies use in their advertising to steal from customers. | |
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| TitusMr Gradenko join:2004-06-26 |
to 67845017
said by 67845017:It's known as running a business. No matter how many years go by, this place with its uber-liberal anti-business thinking never ceases to amaze me. Oh, good: We have another "Two hard rights from a Swastika" BBR moment! . | |
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| KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to 67845017
it is called running a business but you dont sell a device that is advertised as exclusive to your network and show in the ads it doing things that arent allowed by your user agreement. | |
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| elveySpamassassin join:2001-02-17 San Francisco, CA |
to 67845017
You're right. It's a business...
It's a business in the same sense that Organized Crime rings like the Mafia are businesses. Just like my sig says... (on longer posts!) | |
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the Devil BOBBYWireless companies are the "Devil". | |
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| 93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2007-Jun-20 5:02 pm
Re: the Devil BOBBYwould've been so much better as "debil" | |
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en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2007-Jun-20 4:54 pm
everything that isn't paid through AT&T violates EULABasically, this means that AT&T/iPhone have a 'deal', and they will most likely make exceptions to iPhone customers, as Apple/iPhone have the monopoly on it.
I.e. Everything else violates EULA, unless those companies come to us and pay us for exclusivity rights.
In the end, this is how standard broadband will end up if net neutrality doesn't take hold. | |
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Re: everything that isn't paid through AT&T violates EULAexactly, the wireless networks are everything that we don't want broadband to be. This is a prime example of what happens when the network owners make all the decisions. | |
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Re: everything that isn't paid through AT&T violates EULAGod forbid the ones who paid the money to put up the networks want to control their network and make money off of it. It is totally unbelievable!!!! | |
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| | | en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2007-Jun-20 6:33 pm
Re: everything that isn't paid through AT&T violates EULAI don't have an issue with them attempting to partner with a content provider and make money. The issue I have is someone throwing money (venture capital?) to take something which was Internet access (which many of us want), and turn it into a a 3rd party content filtered / capped connection if you don't use the content provider.
Are you saying because at&t put up networks that Vonage/Skype shouldn't be able to make money ? They have to pay for Internet connectivity, as does everyone else that has an Internet connection. If this doesn't pay for the network, then the business model is skewed. Having the ISP take money from the content provider isn't wrong, as long as it doesn't dictate HOW the Internet is run. Zonefinder, proxies, adware browsers are just the start. | |
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Re: everything that isn't paid through AT&T violates EULAEthically, no. I think they should let everyone use any application they want, that would be great for me, not so much them.
Realistically, they can tell me that I can/cannot do anything on their network and either I don't buy the service or I do and I deal with the BS.
In addition I understand (sometimes) why they do these things. It is to ensure their limited resource (spectrum/bandwidth) is not being completely used up by those individuals who want use more the resources for themselves in effect causing other users to have a bad experience. And in this case if some users want to use youtube and take up a lot of resources then they are making sure they get paid for it.
If I cant use skype on my handheld but can always get good cell phone connections and google maps when I need it than I am okay with that. Eventually technology will increase the available resources and then other applications will become available. | |
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| | | | | en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2007-Jun-20 7:03 pm
Re: everything that isn't paid through AT&T violates EULARight.. What I (and probably many others) have been concerned about would be something like VoIP on DSL/Cable being filtered.
Eg. coworkers on Cable have poor quality Vonage (with 8Mpbs HSI), while I've had excellent quality Skype on 1.5Mbps DSL.
I somewhat expect it on Wireless, as it isn't considered (except on Data cards) an Internet connection, but a portal. | |
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Youtube over EDGEI would just shoot myself | |
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I say Pay per Bit...or get over itJust open the damn connection, (pay per bit) instead of wireless carriers playing mommy. | |
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| moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2007-Jun-20 5:53 pm
Re: I say Pay per Bit...or get over itsaid by JamesPC:Just open the damn connection, (pay per bit) instead of wireless carriers playing mommy. And watch people stop using the services. You make people pay per byte, or even per minute, you will see a BIG decline in profits for cell phone carriers. | |
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Re: I say Pay per Bit...or get over itNo, what they want is to push there crappy content on us. Like we give a shit what verizon wants to sell us. We want to watch youtube and download movies from our phones. This is not about making money, its about making MORE MONEY. Instead of you just paying verizon for there service, they think we want to pay them for the content also. Bull | |
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calvoiper join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA |
Exception or not?Is there really a need for an exception here? Can't ATT just say that YouTube is "content formatted in accordance with AT&T's wireless content standards..."?
Of course, that might mean that they would have to allow YouTube to stream to all ATT wireless data subscribers, regardless of the device they are using....
calvoiper | |
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Issue is bad business modelAll the wireless companies paid tons of cash for spectrum and invested tons of money into creating a broadband connection for the phone. Unfortunately, the only way they can recoup their money is by charging too much and providing too little compared to what broadband users are accustomed to. Sucks to be them. | |
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i went to a cingular/att store...and was going to get the HTC 8525 with the full data unlimited package and asked the sales person what the limit was on the data plan... She said there was no limit, however, i suspect she was incorrect and now reading the clause from the EULA, it would be a shame for me to spend that kind of money on a phone and then use the broadband 3g data plan service only to start getting messages from att/cingular that i'm either a bandwidth hog or i've violated the EULA. Then I would get my service canceled and now I'd be stuck with an expensive phone that i could use for all practicality...
why can't a provider just offer plain and simple services and be done with it... it's all just so convoluted... | |
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batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ |
batterup
Premium Member
2007-Jun-21 4:55 am
It is the golden rule.He who has the gold makes the rules. | |
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.even with the non EVDO speeds, i imagine a user can rack up Gb's of content streaming through youtube, right? | |
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GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium Member join:2001-10-29 Indianapolis, IN |
Sprint...Yea Sprint allows phone-as-modem but of course you have to sign up for another plan feature to be "allowed" to do that.
K. | |
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owenhomekeeper of the magic blue smoke Premium Member join:2002-07-13 Bentonville, AR |
owenhome
Premium Member
2007-Jun-21 12:49 pm
Give it time.Eventually, you will see almost ALL 3g restrictions disappear.
What most people fail to understand is that the service was rolled out before the infrastructure to support it was complete. The restrictions were put into place to keep traffic light so it was accessible to a large number of subscribers. The service started out as a hodge-podge mess with very limited capacity. As they get further down the road with it and the service matures, it's capacity will be close to that of a land-line ISP. Many 3g towers could support only 1 user operating at full tilt when they first rolled out the service.
I doubt, however, that file sharing apps will ever be permitted. But you will find the service much more user friendly. | |
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DarkflightStitch 626 LTE join:2001-03-03 Rowland Heights, CA |
Youtube over edge...i have a feeling the streaming is going to be at a seriously reduced postage stamp rate to maintain some form of decent playback... look ma... my iPhone has a 5 inch screen... andplays youtube.... except the youtube video of me being silly is only 1 inch big... | |
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