 unixnoob
join:2002-09-11
Odessa, FL | That's why Two years ago when I got FiOS, I made V* leave my copper POTS.
The fact that we live in the Lightning Capital of the world didn't hurt either!
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JeepMatt
Delaware Fios
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| Re: That's why Just so everyone knows - this is not happening in ALL FIOS states.
In Delware, the copper is not being removed. I actually wanted it removed, so there would be less wires from the pole to the house, but was told they are leaving it there.
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
edit:
July 4th, @10:52AM
| Re: That's why TCH: !google Inconvenient truth published articles
[TCH] P2P Criminals!
Seems that there are still a few bugs the developer needs to work on.
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Duct tape, saving lives since 1942. | |
| | 
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by unixnoob  :The fact that we live in the Lightning Capital of the world didn't hurt either! I don't understand. I would assume living in heavy lightning area you would want copper phone line removed to eliminate path for lightning surges.
/Tom | |
| | davl
join:2006-01-28
Furlong, PA
| said by unixnoob :Two years ago when I got FiOS, I made V* leave my copper POTS. The fact that we live in the Lightning Capital of the world didn't hurt either! I don't understand your comment about lightning. I feel a lot safer when talking on the phone with FIOS during a storm, knowing that there is no copper "lightening rod" connected to my house or more importantly to the phone next to my ear. | |
| | | battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| Re: That's why What do you think the fiber is suspended from? It's not a copper cable but it is conductive. I bet there is copper coming from that FIOS box on the side of your house to your telephone.
A few years one side of our fiber ring went down due to lighting. My first though was huh? how did that happen. What happened was lighting struck the cable mid span and it traveled the steel cable and the metal cable that wraps the fiber to the steel cable to the nearest pole and then to ground. The fiber was destroyed because it was melted. | |
| | | | 
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: That's why Do you think that if there was copper based service that the lighting strike would have spared the copper line? No, I don't think so either. The problem in that case wasn't fiber/copper, it was that lighting stroke the line. Nothing will protect against that ever, well, maybe a buried line. If it was copper based, it would have been much more probable that the copper would have been energized and anything attached to it inside the house likely would have been fried too.
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| NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
 ·VOIPo
·Verizon FIOS
| Still copper here I have FiOS for a year now and was able to keep my copper loop. I placed an order for Internet only and told them that there was no phone line that I wished to bill it to. The day of the install, the order was written to install FiOS Internet only. Now I have added TV and still have my copper.
My next door neighbors installed FiOS Internet and 2 POTS lines and their copper was removed from the side of the house.
Once they realized what they paying, they dropped 1 pots line and switched their primary line to AT&T CallVantage VoIP. | |
| | 
SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | Let it go people..... Will the copper comments and articles ever end? Its old breaking and hard to maintain, let it go. New house, no copper here. | |
| ggoose_69
join:2003-12-23
Everett, WA
| . I just had fios put in the house, I asked the tech about the copper she said why not leave it, you or the next owner might want to go back to copper. I was like oh, ok. I was hoping to clean up the side of the house a bit and get rid of all the cable/phone boxes. I guess it's a good idea to keep it. | |
| | 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: . said by ggoose_69 :I just had fios put in the house, I asked the tech about the copper she said why not leave it, you or the next owner might want to go back to copper. I was like oh, ok. I was hoping to clean up the side of the house a bit and get rid of all the cable/phone boxes. I guess it's a good idea to keep it. The average house gets a new owner every 5 yrs, so the idea that a new owner might want to do something different is reasonable(from the owners standpoint). But why Verizon wouldn't want to cut the copper and force Fios on a new owner is beyond me. Unless they think that by cutting the copper connection they would lose the business altogether to a cable company if the new owner just wanted CHEAP POTS service and nothing more.
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| Fiber vs Copper Once an area is wired with Fiber why would Telco want to keep copper in place and have to maintain it. Granted it will be years before fiber replaces copper but that has to be one of Verizon's long term goals. Opex for fiber is much lower then copper and they have won the battle with CLECs and do not have to share fiber.
In short term this is probably a battle Verizon does not want to fight. Better wait a few years when FIOS is pervasive and decommission copper outside plant.
/tom | |
| | | DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX | Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper In the majority of cases, there is no way that the existing copper runs would be able to carry the current needed to power the ONT without an unworkably large voltage drop. | |
| | | 
signmeuptoo
Obama can save the economy Vision
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Tardis in TN
clubs:
·EarthLink
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
·Packet8
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper Ah, and that is why I said all fiber cables should have copper accompanying them. I know it can be done. I studied fiber optics and electronics at college a decade and a half ago, heh. Adding the copper would also make the cable stronger and more rigid and metal is usually IN fiber cables anyways when trunk lines are made. You simply run a cluster of large enough gauge copper wires in a daisy pattern around the FO cables, sheith it all with grounding (which is a good idea anyways for less than obvious reasons, even with fiber) and at the pole have a break out box that lets the Telco Tech connect to one of the power cables, one of the fiber cables with a special fiber connection (making solid bonds is hard and expensive, I don't know how they are doing it now, but there are/should be alternatives, I bonded fiber in college and it takes skill to do).
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| | | | davl
join:2006-01-28
Furlong, PA
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper You are missing the whole point about the passive nature of the Fios service. The optical signal comes directly from the CO to each customer without using any electronic devices such as amplifiers and no metal conductors. Thus no corrosion, electrical interference, short and open circuits, lightening damage etc. Trying to feed and maintain a power supply to each customer would probably raise the maintenance cost by a factor of 10 or more!
For example when my Fios service was installed 2 years ago the tech ran into a problem. The connection box in my front lawn was filled with water! No problem. He pumped the water out, made the fiber connection and completed the install. I checked the box recently and it is still waterlogged but my phone, internet and TV work just fine. I can't imagine the problems this would cause with copper power connections. | |
| | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper Well handholes are below ground and thusly fill up with water.
They could engineer FiOS to use a power pair. But they'd have to locate a central source a set distance away. They'd then have to engineer how many power pairs to each unit also.
I don't think it would be 10x the cost but it would add to it. BellSouth used power pairs for their FTTC platform. The pairs were set alongside the fiber when the cable was made and pliced with the stubs to each pedestal. There's really no problem with it since its factory made. FiOS could do something similar with a single tap at each pedestal.
But they're already spending a lot of money as is. I hope when at&t gets around to doing it, the costs will be lower that telco provided power could be an option. It'd really be nice to not have customer mandated maintenance on the system. | |
| | | | |
signmeuptoo
Obama can save the economy Vision
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Tardis in TN
clubs:
·EarthLink
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
·Packet8
·AT&T Southeast
| A factor of 10??? Seriously: How would that be? Metal HAS to be in the cable anyways, COs HAVE power back NOW for all Copper lines. Don't you think claiming a factor of 10 is pretty outrageous?
People need phones for emergencies, and it is a VERY bad idea to trust people to choose, buy, install, run, and maintain power backup. What if there is a national crises such as a recent movie depicts of the LA area losing power for a week? The crises would be epoch.
All COs already HAVE generators. MY CO in my tiny town of 350 people has one, I can see it when I go right by it!
We aren't talking about signal carrying copper, we are talking about wire the cable NEEDS ANYWAYS for its structural integrity.
How many of you here are fiber techs? Are you, davl? Well, no, I am not either, BUT I went to school and learned much of it.
Expecting the public to run power backup systems that can supply power for days on end is utterly outrageous. Sure, I want to see a campaign in the USA like Germany has that would get all Americans into installing solar power and other alternatives, it would be good for national security and prevent national riots if there ever was a severe outage, but expecting people to do that right now with no legislation in place to induce the public to build such a thing is just NOT realistic.
UPSs can only provide power, at best, for a few hours. Furthermore, they require constant maintenance and use batteries which are NOT environmentally friendly. Furthermore, those batteries have a very short lifetime and are extremely expensive. Telling people that they need to buy a $300 Plus UPS that will only help them for hours, not days, is worse than just doing the job right and running the lifeline power in the cables that already HAVE TO HAVE the wire in them anyways. And once again, it isn't signal carrying wire, just power, minimal power, for emergencies. Since HeteroJunction Injection Diode LASERS are VERY efficient nowadays, this could and should be implemented, and by an act of congress.
I find your statements, davl, outrageous. If you were a telco tech I would at least discuss this on a merits and technical basis, but are you?
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper When you state fiber cable contain metal I assume you are talking about the messenger used as a strength member. This is not a current carrying conductor it is used to support aerial cable that is not over lashed to existing cable. In general fiber cable is nonmetallic. This is often an advantage since it can be installed closer to other wiring then if it contained conductors.
Lets look at the ramification of what you are suggesting.
1) Cable would need either a pair of fairly large conductors to supply power to many households or as is current practice a pair per household.
2) If large gauge conductors are used some sort of current limiting device is needed on each drop so a over current or short does not take down multiple customers or cause a fire hazard.
3) Extending copper to the house some form of lightning protection is needed at each house.
4) Provisions for automated testing and maintenance need to be built into the outside plant network to minimized support cost.
5) Additional space is needed in cross connect cabinets to interconnect the power conductors.
6) Additional weight and cross sectional area may cause problems with some aerial outside plant and exacerbate conduit fill issues with underground plan.
7) Adding copper to the cable negates much of the advantage of reduced OpEx of an fiber outside plant.
Seems like an awful expensive solution to burden fiber with at the same time wireline phone service subscription rates are declining in favor of cell phones.
/Tom | |
| | | | | | |
signmeuptoo
Obama can save the economy Vision
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Tardis in TN
clubs:
·EarthLink
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
·Packet8
·AT&T Southeast
edit:
July 4th, @01:50PM
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper Well, good arguments indeed, but some of them are very minor, most actually. I seriously don't think that heavy a gauge is needed, remember, technology for low voltage systems could be made, it doesn't have to be house current. A breaker can easily be included in the box, and shouldn't there be one anyways if it is being powered some other way, to protect it? A run to the ground is advisable anyways to protect the circuitry of the box outside anyways. I don't know about to the home fiber cables, but other fiber cables that aren't intended for inside premises use have metal cables in them to not only stiffen them but give them Tensile Strength with is necessary. It also, as I said, will make the cables quite a bit stonger in the wind. As far as conduit: The cable run to the house from the drop box wouldn't need to be much larger than the exisiting copper run, copper runs are usually done in a set of two so you DO have the thickness in many conduits. The fiber being proximal to other things is not negated just because copper power wires are coming into the premises box as well, since they break down right at the entrance of the box.
Have you guys ever watched overhead wires whip in the wind? They can vibrate in ways similar to guitar strings and those resonances can cause them to snap. Much fiber is new buried runs, so it isn't a huge issues since you are running newly in the ground as it is. Overhead cables HAVE TO have some kind of metallic strengthening material anyways, plastic and glass fiber can't handle the tensile stress by themselves, there is no way.
I guess we will have to agree to intensely disagree.
Those of you that haven't seen the nightmare scenario movie I refer to should watch it. I don't know the name of the movie offhand, but it is the kind of movie that totally changes you because it wakes you up to things you haven't considered about life. Sooner or later there is going to be a worse electrical outage than what happened in the Northeast US just a couple years ago. I remember up in Ithaca I was without power for over 24 hours and it was getting scary.
When power is out that long riots can ensue, especially after a few days. Grocery stores close down because they have no power to keep food cold and run registers. Emergency response centers not only lose capacity, but lose the ability to handle the overload. Water pumping stations cannot move water (house fires run amok, people die of thirst, and worse).
The legal system was smart enough to evidently require Telco COs to make their own power in emergencies, it is backwards thinking to willingly let go of that emergency backup.
Go ahead, choose to not have this, but wait until a real regional/national crises hits, some looter goes on to your property, and you can't call for help. What if your UPS runs out of power and you have a heart attack and all cell towers are down due to them not having generators at them?
As Americans we don't do things because they are necessarily just convenient, but because they are things WE SHOULD DO!
What scares me is you guys will all learn this the hard way and then ask "how did this happen, why didn't we see this coming???" I will site one simple example: New Orleans, which was totally unprepared for what hit it. How many died there? How many more would have died were there to be zero communications throughout the entire region? Well, that is what you guys want. I don't think that is very intelligent, I have a wife in kid, that, if they were here in the states, I would want them to have every advantage of safety my nation could provide me.
I will have to back off on this and just accept that you all lack the vision of this necessity. Such is life.
EDIT: One last meek comment, and I won't respond to any of your follow ups, since this could just cycle out of control into a fight which I would hate to see:
Perhaps it is because I am the son of a former fire department captain and also the former civil defense director of my home town. Being his son Affected my perspective and taught me some things that most people never consider until it is way too late...
You all have a wonderful fourth and enjoy your FTTH, I envy those of you that have it!!! God Bless.
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper said by signmeuptoo :I seriously don't think that heavy a gauge is needed, remember, technology for low voltage systems could be made, it doesn't have to be house current.
Depending on version of ONT power consumption is 20 watts in standby and 25 off hook. This compares to less then .2 watts for POTS phone (7 volts ~ 20ma) but only while phone is off hook.
Typical feeder cable may serve 100 customers so it would need to deliver 2-3Kw. One also needs to factor in cable power loss loss and that now Telco is paying for ONT power rather then customer.
said by signmeuptoo : What if your UPS runs out of power and you have a heart attack and all cell towers are down due to them not having generators at them?
Then you die.
said by signmeuptoo : As Americans we don't do things because they are necessarily just convenient, but because they are things WE SHOULD DO! Nonsense we do things after an evaluation of cost vs benefit. It is called triage or cost benefit analysis. Everything has a cost someone needs to make the painful decisions.
said by signmeuptoo : I will site one simple example: New Orleans, which was totally unprepared for what hit it. How many died there? How many more would have died were there to be zero communications throughout the entire region? Actually that is a good example but not for the reason you probably think. Wireline communication was almost totally offline due to the hurricane. Either due to utility lines being knocked down of switching offices flooded.
The first responders were: HAMS providing emergency communication
And then a little while later the phone companies bought in COWS - Cell on Wheels to provide some level of "normal" communications. At that point most folks had run down their cell phone batteries.
Even though Telephone central offices have standby power both battery and generators they do not have an unlimited amount of fuel. In a crisis lasting more then a few days getting fuel delivered is a serious problem.
I to take emergency communication very seriously. However I disagree with you about how best to achieve the goal of protecting citizens during natural and man made disasters.
/Tom | |
| | | tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| said by DMS1 :In the majority of cases, there is no way that the existing copper runs would be able to carry the current needed to power the ONT without an unworkably large voltage drop. All homes & apt buildings should come with their own way of generating power, either by solar, natural gas, gasoline/diesel generator, wind turbine, etc. There is almost no excuse to not be without emergency power.. or the ability t generate it.. heck, you could actually make a wind-up motor to power the phone line (uses minimal power vs the whole ONT) on the ONT for a few minutes if you really needed it.. | |
| | | | DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper said by tmc8080 :said by DMS1 :In the majority of cases, there is no way that the existing copper runs would be able to carry the current needed to power the ONT without an unworkably large voltage drop. All homes & apt buildings should come with their own way of generating power, either by solar, natural gas, gasoline/diesel generator, wind turbine, etc. There is almost no excuse to not be without emergency power.. or the ability t generate it.. heck, you could actually make a wind-up motor to power the phone line (uses minimal power vs the whole ONT) on the ONT for a few minutes if you really needed it.. I agree entirely. Especially when you consider that the frequency and duration of power failures varies from location to location with quite a fine granularity. For example, in a hurricane prone area, a new development with buried cables may have no real problems whereas a neighboring one with aerial cables would. Given that an extended power outage causes a whole lot more problems than just the possible failure of ones phone, it makes much more sense to tackle to real problem. | |
| |
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by signmeuptoo :All FIOS Optical fiber runs should be paired/cabled with, at the very least, some copper runs that hook one to power from the CO backup power system so that your FIOS will still work when the power goes out. I disagree. Adding copper cable to fiber defeats one of the main benefits of fiber.
I'm perfectly happy with the carrier delivering only data. FIOS does have some backup capability. If I need more I can always purchase my own UPS. As we migrate to more converged communication there are many other devices that need power during an outage to stay connected.
We are seeing a trend away from wired phone service with many folks using cellular phone as their primary telephone. I'd rather see more focus in hardening the cellular system then worry about losing phone service due to a power outage.
Here in New England power outages are rather frequent, especially during ice storms. Granted power goes out more often then phone but was have also lost wired phone service for hours or days during bad ice storms.
/Tom | |
| | |
signmeuptoo
Obama can save the economy Vision
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Tardis in TN
clubs:
·EarthLink
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
·Packet8
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper What, praytell, is the "benefit" of not having copper fiber? Are you under the illusion that it will make the cable to your house smaller? Trust me, the cable wouldn't be much if at all larger, and would probably be a stronger cable much less prone to damage from bending, tensile stress, and wind vibrations! You cannot bend of fiber past a certain angle, that angle is known in optics as that it will cause loss of the fiber transmission, it relates to Brewster's angle. Now, a copper run and cladding alongside your fiber might already be there anyways, I haven't looked at current FIOS cables, but generally ALL fiber cables have metal in them, they HAVE to.
You might be a cable tech and I am open to new information, but I honestly think you might be under the illusion that having metal in a fiber run is somehow disadvantagious. In now way I know of is it, and in fact it is required. Or perhaps I should just throw away my FO textbooks from college?
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| | | | lbsand
join:2001-10-13
North East, MD
| Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper but generally ALL fiber cables have metal in them, they HAVE to.
Wrong, No fiber cables currently used by Verizon have metal IN them. Aerial cables are attached to a steel ( poor conductor) messenger and buried has no fiber at all. They get strength from Kevlar | |
| | | | |
signmeuptoo
Obama can save the economy Vision
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Tardis in TN
clubs: | Re: All fiber should come with powering copper/backup copper Oh, Kevlar now? Well, that IS good for tensile strength, but not rigidity. | |
| | | |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| said by signmeuptoo :What, praytell, is the "benefit" of not having copper fiber? With current copper prices, cost is probably the biggest issue. Several others have pointed out numerous other arguments why "copper fiber" (whatever that is) isn't going to be implemented.
You might be a cable tech and I am open to new information, but I honestly think you might be under the illusion that having metal in a fiber run is somehow disadvantagious. In now way I know of is it, and in fact it is required. Or perhaps I should just throw away my FO textbooks from college? There are different grades of fiber optic cable. The actual fiber itself doesn't have metal in it. Kevlar or other synthetic fibers provide sufficient strength in many cases. If it is for a buried run, a thin non-current carrying messenger wire used for tracing is typically molded into the same cable. If it's for an aerial run or some other suspended run where it needs to support it's own weight, it can be an armored cable, lashed to a steel line, or ran through a conduit designed to support weight.
Around my parts, you will rarely see a phone, cable, or power line ran as an aerial without some type of a steel suspension line to support the weight. You aren't going to be able to add a few thin copper lines that are small enough to supply the necessary power, large enough to support the weight of the fiber as well as itself...all while adding no extra significant cost to the cable.
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| | | | bruins55
join:2007-06-17
Holderness, NH
| I am a fiber tech for Verizon....and no the fiber cable that we ran does not have metal in it...it has fiberglass strength members in them..putting copper inside a fiber cable is a bad choice...now you make it prone to lightning...and the CO backup generator power is just enough to run the office....you would need alot more power to provide customers with backup power. | |
| | alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
| What are you guys talking about? The Copper goes back to a Verizon Central Office, and it ties to different equipment than the Fiber. This equipment will be taken out to upgrade the C.O.. The CLEC's would have to buy and reroute this outdated Infrastructure to use it.
As for leaving it there to power the ONT, the Copper when connected to the C.O. only carries 48V DC, not enough to power the ONT, and like I said the equipment will be removed. Copper is old Technology, let it go! | |
| | 
rtcy
RTCY
Premium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Verizon FIOS
| said by signmeuptoo :All FIOS Optical fiber runs should be paired/cabled with, at the very least, some copper runs that hook one to power from the CO backup power system so that your FIOS will still work when the power goes out. That would solve a LOT of complaints. They could charge for any electricity that has been used if they like, in the event of power outages. I figure, if you can afford FIOS, you should support it working properly and financially. What you propose is shear genious, but way too smart for any utility much less Verizon.
sarcasm aside, if they took the copper and hooked it up as a backup for power outages like you say, it would eliminate 90% of the fears about loosing it. it would make me happy. I drive by 4 or 5 different CO's all the time and see those huge mufflers sticking out the top or side for their backup generators and here the power goes out every so often. there are certain things in life that we all take for granted and communications is one, when it's down we feel lost, it's also nice to have the TV signal portion work for portable TV's in case of natural disasters, it does not happen often but we have had earthquakes and power loss for many hours and even days, in a time like that it's essential to have it, I'm sure most of us were glued to the TV during the hurricane storm in New Orleans or Miami and the folks in the surrounding area needed that info, sure the lines went down in places , but unless a tree down the line phisically the phones usualy work, at least it has been the case for me many times in florida.
there are still those that want a cheap route no matter what, but then fios has lifeline available for low income folks
I say let us keep the copper , it will make Verizon look like the good guys and 99% of the people are going to love it and not give them any issues anyway, we all know it. let us have our security blankets, at least for the next 2 decades till we all forget copper.
regards | |
| 
SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Enough! If your area (for whatever reason) has copper being removed when fiber goes in, then either take it or leave it. It's so easy. You say "Install me" or "Don't install me". You have your choices - make it and stop crying. It's phone service - not brain surgery!
I couldn't care less what the next owners of my house have for phone service providers. I believe that having FiOS is a point that adds value - not detracting value.
I love the fact that my phone lines are CRYSTAL clear over fiber. No scratching noises... no radio station signals heard on the phones.. it's great. The internet speed is incredible! No caps or BS! The UPS works when the power is out. If it didn't last I'd do something else so that it would.
Life is full of choices. Make one! | |
| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| A comparison When people want to upgrade their service from copperto fiber optic based service in order to get better speeds some here demand they leave the copper in place under the assumption someone may one day want to use it.
But when cable companies decide to suspend analog TV service some here demand it be allowed because it progress. | |
| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| Re: A comparison Interesting comparison...
However, there are some issues....
1. Leaving the copper in allows the subscriber to retreat to another provider in the event that the fibre provider starts letting their service slide. People need to be able to leave if the service they have is not satisfactory. Unless the providers start allowing resellers to offer data service over fibre, the demand for copper as a means to escape will always be there.
2. The cable companies suspending analog TV are actually doing so because the availability of analog signals will soon be zero. While they are jumping the gun is killing analog TV now, once the source signal goes digital from the station or feed, it makes little sense to convert to analog.
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| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| Re: A comparison It's not a big deal for them to take the digital signal, drop it down to analog and contine it on. It just doesn't make them cash.
Supporting copper to the house costs Verizon more cash. Cutting it out and going full fiber is more sensical for them. | |
| | | | 
bigfitch
Premium
join:2005-06-01
Murrayville, IL
clubs: | Re: A comparison Must be nice to have more than 1 option for internet.
Be happy with what you have / can have.
Some of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place | |
| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| said by bogey780 :It's not a big deal for them to take the digital signal, drop it down to analog and contine it on. It just doesn't make them cash. It would require an investment in more equipment for what essentially is a dead-end method of broadcasting. They would need to add equipment that is going to have a very short useful lifespan (with respect to need). Now that televisions have start shipping with digital tuners, the need for analog signal is going to continue to fall as people get new sets or replace their old ones.
Supporting copper to the house costs Verizon more cash. Cutting it out and going full fiber is more sensical for them. Absolutely. But the problem is that customers no longer have the choice to go with what might be a better independent ISP. If Verizon were to open up the fibre to independent ISPs (for just IP, not phones, etc.), the whole issue would go away for them.
Yes, it costs Verizon more to have the copper, but it also better for the customer to have that escape route.
In this case, the customers concerns take precedence ESPECIALLY since Fios is still new.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
| 
Fios Lover
@comcast.net | Ma Bell newnetworks.com and Teletruth.com | |
| | CopperMux
join:2005-01-18 | Re: Ma Bell Yet another troll. | |
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Rob A
Jets 19 - Steelers 16
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Why?? Why would a customer ever want copper back? | |
| | 
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Why?? said by Rob A :Why would a customer ever want copper back? For some of us out here FiOS is not the great panacea that everyone desires, they put me through hell way too many times with their technical nightmares.
Everyone wants the option of having FiOS if they want...
I already have it, It is NOT perfect.
I don't love it, I tolerate it...
And I just want to reserve the option to get rid of it. | |
| 
seant169
join:2003-07-21
Forney, TX
·Suddenlink
| Verizon is a PUssy to the customer? Why is Verizon pusin out? Tell them its better and is what is replacing the copper service and that's it.. FIOS is a good product.
If they played fair in the market they probly would not have as many customer complaints. What goes around comes around! | |
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u2v
@verizon.net | you'll be happy with the copper When I switched to FIOS for voice and data ( I was an MCI customer) they moved my data to FIBER and voice to copper. I've tried to get it changed but they keep telling me to just leave it the way it is. | |
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parity_error
@covad.net | Copper removal when FIOS is installed The Consumer Affairs unit at WRC-TV4 in DC has expressed some interest in talking to disconnected-copper FIOS victims.
»www.nbc4.com/index.html | |
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When FiOS Customers Want Copper Back
No problem I said. I reminded him where the easement was and to stay off my property. "What about the house attachment"... he said. No problem. I grabbed a pair of wire cutters, cut and tossed the RG-6 into the alley. Waved by-by to him and YugoCast. 