 |  | | | | 
a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance Actually, to keep a usable copper pair to ur home, it does in fact cost verizon, cause they have to mantain the pair, and keep the copper plant mantained. Also, dialup does in fact work on fiber, albeit at lower speeds. in addition, u can DEFINITELY change carriers on fiber, its just like POTS, u are free to downgrade, or change local carriers.
In all, it costs MONEY to upgrade to fiber, so VZ just wants to cut the cost of mantaining copper. BTW, many people with DSL on the line say theyve been able to keep copper, either bcause of the DSL, or cause they have a different CLEC for local toll. | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance If you ask me, I have said from day one they should use the old copper pair as a method of electricity/power for the FiOS units, to guarantee 24/7 reliability. It's such a waste to pull it all out...
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance said by phattieg  :If you ask me, I have said from day one they should use the old copper pair as a method of electricity/power for the FiOS units, to guarantee 24/7 reliability. It's such a waste to pull it all out... But it doesn't guarantee anything. Lines can be cut, telephone poles can be knocked over, etc. Just because you have a copper pair can't give you your warm and fuzzy feeling 24/7.
A UPS of some sorts that can provide backup telephone power for 6-8 hours will cover an overwhelming majority of all blackouts that typically occur. Will it cover all of them? No. But your copper-based POTS service also isn't guaranteed to be up during all prolonged outages either.
By maintaining a separate copper network for power distribution, you are just doubling the amount of lines that must be maintained, and they are of different technologies so they probably would be different crews. The power requirements for an ONT are also much higher. I believe the numbers are a few hundred milliwatts for POTS, 20+ watts for the ONT. With that in mind, the existing copper network would have to be significantly updated to handle the additional load.
Plus, pulling the wire isn't going to waste. Have you seen what copper prices have been lately? It can get recycled. Miles and miles of cable, even at 22 or 24 gauge, can bring in a huge chunk of change.
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Go Colts | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance Lines can be cut, but I will say POTS worked for 5 days while the power was out all over Orlando after the hurricanes. No "8 hour" crap. I think if Verizon gave a damn about their customers, they would have developed this in a way so that people not only could switch back to POTS, or another carrier, but they would also make it more reliable by providing power for the OTN thru their own copper. Never did I say it was a "guarantee" but I do know POTS has a higher uptime and reliability than FiOS, and thats because it's ran off the telco's own power stations (in most cases). I don't claim this is the case for EVERYONE, but if you're connected to the CO, and not an RT, I can guarantee the phone will work in a power outage unless a tree takes down your F1 or F2 pair, or your CO gets clobbered with falling trucks from a tornado... 
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| Dennis, you silly boy! all of those reasons to keep copper are reasons the customer wants to keep it. Verizon doesn't care about the customer, it only cares about it's shareholders.
there are two reasons verizon doesn't want to keep copper around in FIOS areas:
1. I concede that there is probably some cost associated with maintaining the copper, so it's a cost cutting measure,
2. the more insidious reason to remove the copper is to essentially strand the customer with no option but the incumbent telco, or, in cases where there is at least a duopoly, the incumbent cableco; the FCC has already decreed that fiber doesn't have to be shared - remove the copper and you remove the likelihood of any other landline provider except for the cableco to provide broadband | |
| | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance What's the reason for CLEC's getting copper access? Because incumbents had a defacto monopoly when the copper was placed. So the argument is that as long as they run that copper they need to share. Fiber is totally new and divorced from copper plant.
It's like having to pay alimony to your ex-wife even after she remarries.
Some cost? Heh... And the Titanic was just some boat. | |
| | | | |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance said by bogey780 :What's the reason for CLEC's getting copper access? Because incumbents had a defacto monopoly when the copper was placed. So the argument is that as long as they run that copper they need to share. Fiber is totally new and divorced from copper plant. While I agree with you for the most part, you also have to remember that the ILECs became huge and powerful because of the government bailouts and subsidies. It gives them an unfair advantage as the goverment helped them run their business for years, essentially building up their pocket books so that they eventually could deploy their own network with their own money. The CLECs haven't had that advantage of the constant government help over the years.
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Go Colts | |
| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
| said by nasadude :Dennis, you silly boy! all of those reasons to keep copper are reasons the customer wants to keep it. Verizon doesn't care about the customer, it only cares about it's shareholders. Bingo, we have a winner... That about sums about this problem nicely.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
| | | 
SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | If you want the copper, than don't get FIOS. Enough of the copper crap. | |
| | | | madrhino
join:2004-07-03
1 edit | Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance nm........... | |
| | | King Duck
join:2005-04-10
Elizabeth City, NC | In the long run, the whole idea is to REPLACE copper with fiber. Verizon have never made a secret of that and their intention to ultimately just have a fiber network. | |
| | | Tech_Guy
join:2007-06-13
Ontario, CA
1 edit | VZ is evil you complain, VZ is screwing us. First off, no one is forcing any o you to do business with Verizon.
No matter how many times it is said to the BBR users, they don't grasp the simple difference that when you go to fios and want copper back, you can.
The simple difference is that you can't have Verizon dial tone on copper but you can order dial tone from a clec or a dry loop for dsl and copper will be lit up again or put back in place, simple as that.
I can't help but f-ing laugh at those who actually state, "I didn't let Verizon cut my copper", that is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. Verizon owns the service drop so Verizon doesn't need your permission to take it out, and even if they leave it up and your dumb-ass thinks yeah baby I have a copper loop still connected, ah no, because of the constant copper maintenance, that cable pair your drop is attached at the pole/pull box terminal and to going back to the Hub will be disconnected at the terminal by some copper tech in the coming weeks in need of a good pair. This will be done to change over an existing copper customer who's own pair has gone bad. All you will have is a lightning rod going up to the terminal and it ends there because your pair is now gone.
The other thing is you keep harping on that VZ is taking out the copper to resale, you guys are idiots, if you ever paid attention to any of the aerial runs you would notice that the fiber cable is lashed onto the existing copper network which means there is no way to remove the copper cables and even if that were not the case, the cost of manpower,vehicles,damages would far outweigh any potential benefit. | |
| | | | | 
RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance said by Mactron :said by LiamJunket :Just more of the "I want my cake and eat it too" attitude. They want the high speed and reliability of fiber, but they want it at low cost. Yup, and why not if I can.  Personally I could care less if they "take the copper". As a home owner I want all the resellabity (is that a word?..) /resale value I can offer a buyer some day. Not everyone is a BB nut like we are. Bottom line it's a choice I hope to make some day, and I'll try very hard to keep the copper in place. Why not if they give you that choice? I agree. If I upgrade to FIOS and let Verizon remove the copper run to my home, I am reducing the resale value/desirability from what it would be with the Copper still there. While a pre-wired FIOS connection should increase the value of my home, without the Copper the new buyer is stuck with FIOS only and must take it or have no Internet Connectivity (ie: They can not just get DSL speeds/cost or a non-Verizon connection [aside from Cable of course] since without copper the DSL from any vendor is not possible). IOW: Just because I want FIOS, that does not mean the next owner does and not a least speedy alternative. | |
| | | | DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance said by RARPSL :I agree. If I upgrade to FIOS and let Verizon remove the copper run to my home, I am reducing the resale value/desirability from what it would be with the Copper still there. While a pre-wired FIOS connection should increase the value of my home, without the Copper the new buyer is stuck with FIOS only and must take it or have no Internet Connectivity (ie: They can not just get DSL speeds/cost or a non-Verizon connection [aside from Cable of course] since without copper the DSL from any vendor is not possible). IOW: Just because I want FIOS, that does not mean the next owner does and not a least speedy alternative. That is a very weak argument and one that I feel will be mute very soon. Once FiOS is active in an area, Verizon wants to migrate all customers to it as quickly as possible. Whilst this will ultimately involve forcing existing customers to migrate, a very simple interim move (and one I believe they are already doing in some areas) is to only allow new activations to be on FiOS. In other words, even if your house has copper to it when sold, the new owners will get FiOS as part of them signing up for phone service. | |
| | | | |
RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance said by DMS1 :said by RARPSL :I agree. If I upgrade to FIOS and let Verizon remove the copper run to my home, I am reducing the resale value/desirability from what it would be with the Copper still there. While a pre-wired FIOS connection should increase the value of my home, without the Copper the new buyer is stuck with FIOS only and must take it or have no Internet Connectivity (ie: They can not just get DSL speeds/cost or a non-Verizon connection [aside from Cable of course] since without copper the DSL from any vendor is not possible). IOW: Just because I want FIOS, that does not mean the next owner does and not a least speedy alternative. That is a very weak argument and one that I feel will be mute very soon. Once FiOS is active in an area, Verizon wants to migrate all customers to it as quickly as possible. Whilst this will ultimately involve forcing existing customers to migrate, a very simple interim move (and one I believe they are already doing in some areas) is to only allow new activations to be on FiOS. In other words, even if your house has copper to it when sold, the new owners will get FiOS as part of them signing up for phone service. IOW: Verizon by pushing FiOS is preventing the new owner from getting ANY Internet Service other than their FiOS Internet (ie: No ability to get DSL from Verizon or any other DSL Provider) or that offered by the local Cable Company. | |
| | pcnetworx1
join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA
| Look, this is no surprise that the copper is going. In a way the telecom act of 1996 with the forced DSL sharing was probably the best way for the USA to get a modern fiber network in the current environment of business.
It really makes an incentive for any incumbunt telco now to move towards a fiber optic system to lock out that competition from a business sense. It is what they love doing, no? And I always see on here the corporate moaning of how its always for the money. Which it is, and I won't deny that. But that downfall when it comes down to it is the ONLY reason that the fiber is coming in at all without an official mandate.
I mean fiber optic always promised:
a)less line maintenance
b)greater capacity
c)constant pricing for the wire since its glass
and those were just off the top of my head.
So now that people are getting fiber, I really do find it disgusting this complaining about copper being ripped out. I see on this site people bemoaning the 60 year old infrastructure in their town, then in the blink of the eye bemoaning one can't getting the crap they complain about EVERY DAY on here?
Now for the emergency issue, sure copper may give you line power. And thats a fact that fiber doesn't do that. But today I truly think it is irrelevnt if the fiber is unreliable (even though FiOS now gives me the best reliability I've ever had on any connection. I mean, on a residential connetion I've had 3 hours of internet downtime during a power one day in the last year and a month. So calculated that means I have had 99.9997% uptime on my internet part of my fiber connection in the past year, and 100% on my phone.)
Why is it irrelevent in an emergency if the fiber can't give you line power? It is irrelevent to me because of the now ever expanding ubiquity of wireless cell phones. Those don't even depend on any line in an emergency. A generator to a cell tower, any phone with a charge, dial 911. And now with GPS chips, it's really getting accurate if you don't know where you are, but since complaints are about the copper you are probably at home, and know your address. (and yes I know sometimes it is Cell-tower triangulation, but still pretty good and getting more dedicated to GPS sats on newer models).
And yea, I've had VZ Dsl, then Speakeasy, then Adelphia, and now I'm on with VZ Fios in case you're curious.
And no, I don't work for any telco / cable / or wirelss company. This editorial is brought to you shill-free by pcnetworx1  | |
| dcurrey
join:2004-06-29 | Copper fees added! They could always add on a "Return to Copper" option fee to Fios lines.
Maybe I shouldn't have said that  | |
| neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA
| guarantee I have had Fios for few months now and so far no outage but can Verizon guarantee that the connection will hold up as long as copper does when power goes out? Sure the ONT has battery and I have a UPS but the "network" stay up to the backbone for as long at the CO can for copper? If so, they can take my copper out. If not then I want to keep copper. Copper would be the back up for communications be it internet or phone. | |
| |
a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY | Re: guarantee Of course, VZ is required by law to keep the voice network working, which is why they generally have backup generators and batteries at the CO, and switching centers. | |
| | dcurrey
join:2004-06-29
·ViaTalk
| I can see the option of going back to dsl. But as a backup line. Lets say the power does go out for extended time. Fios line drops. You still won't be able to use the copper line for phone or internet service. Its dead they are not going to come out and hook it back up for a few hours.
This doesn't apply if you are in an area that is required to maintain 911 even on disconnect lines. Once you cancel phone service here its gone. | |
| | | 
T1 Rocky
join:2002-11-15
Dallas, TX
·Time Warner Cable
·ygnitionnet
| Re: guarantee said by dcurrey :I can see the option of going back to dsl. But as a backup line. Lets say the power does go out for extended time. Fios line drops. You still won't be able to use the copper line for phone or internet service. Its dead they are not going to come out and hook it back up for a few hours. This doesn't apply if you are in an area that is required to maintain 911 even on disconnect lines. Once you cancel phone service here its gone. Let's run through another case scenario that might sound outlandish right now but given the history of telco, isn't so unreasonable. Let's say 12 months from now, Verizon buys the cable provider in your area. You upgraded to FIOS a year ago and the copper was removed. Your FIOS is outstanding on service. However, FIOS decides that you have to do forced bundling of long distance, phone service and television in order to get internet access (dsl users are familiar with forced bundlng.) And the rate for all of these products is $300 per month. Not a bad price for all products considered and you get to call Portugal for free! However, you don't have $300 in your budget. What is your recourse? The copper is gone. The telecom Act of 96 doesn't apply to fiber so they do not have to share it. You better have a view of the south sky because satelitte is now your only option unless there happens to be a wireless isp in your neck of the woods.
We already do not have enough choices. Losing the copper is just handcuffing the consumer that much more. And I don't buy that the Verizon is saving $$ by removing the copper. When was the last time you saw a Verizon rep in your front yard working on the copper? What does it cost to pull copper from the pole into a house? $100 maybe? And it lasts just like that for 40 years. And in the rare occasion when they do service it, THE CONSUMER PAYS FOR IT!!
The reason the copper is being removed is two fold.
#1 Remove competition.
#2 Copper rates have more than tripled in the last 2 years so they can scrap it and make a decent profit.
The removal of fiber is going to bite us all in the ass in the next 3 years, I guarantee it. | |
| | 
verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eagleville, PA
·Comcast
| Are you aware that the ONT uses a lead-acid battery with a life span of about five years? What happens to it when it no longer can power the ONT? Will Verizon be able to test it proactively and replace it before it is completely dead like they do with CO batteries or will you figure that you don't really have a battery backup when the power outage occurs?
As crappy as copper is, it does offer independence from the power company to make calls. With all the new equipment and its complexity, the cost of maintaining it could easily surpass that of maintaining the copper lines. | |
| | | King Duck
join:2005-04-10
Elizabeth City, NC
1 edit | Re: guarantee said by verolom :Are you aware that the ONT uses a lead-acid battery with a life span of about five years? What happens to it when it no longer can power the ONT? As is more than adequately explained elsewhere, the battery is the user's responsibility and is very easily replaced. | |
| | 
Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| The ONT has a 2-stage back-up.
It first will provide power for x-amount of time.
There is a secondary button which will provide power for emergency use after the primary back-up is exhausted.
Having survived a couple of hurricanes in FLA a few years back something of the magnitude that would take out power that long usually damages the entire utility infrastructure.
This means copper is gone, cable is gone (including VoIP) and perhaps if you are lucky cell phones still work.
| |
| | megalosaurus
join:2000-11-29
North Salem, NY
·Optimum Online
| A Verizon lineman repairing my copper connection (a very frequent occurrence) told me that they don't need to provide power to any part of the network between the CO and the customer's house, so there should be no issues with batteries running down in the network. But in my neighborhood, where outages often last for days, eight hours of backup in the modem isn't much of a solution. It would be helpful if someone made a power adapter that could be plugged into a car's lighter socket.
The whole issue of FiOS is pretty much irrelevant for me. The last few houses on my street (including mine) have underground wiring, so FiOS stops where the wires go undeground. The copper wires are ancient and Verizon isn't maintaining them. My phone rarely works when it rains. Even in good weather, I get a loud hum, frequent crosstalk, and rarely get Caller ID info. When I report this to Verizon, they come out, swap circuits with someone else, then the next time it rains, that person complains and they swap me back to a bad circuit. And if they ever do decide to bring FiOS to my house, I'll be able to get 30/5 service for $179.95 per month. Verizon has made it clear just how much they want my business, so I'll respect their wishes and act accordingly. | |
| JackBauer
join:2006-08-24
Schenectady, NY
| Love POTS but... I would LOVE to have POTS and I guess I would prefer to have copper if I still used POTS.
But as much as I like the reliability and clarity of my copper pair... I love the features I get with VOIP even more.
As soon as I can block specific calls with a web interface, I would go back to VZ and pay the extra $30 or so per month to get it.
I guess my point is that I don't care too much at this point - but if VZ started offering advance calling features with POTS, I'd probably want to stay with copper. | |
| 
93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
| How about this idea: Have two POTS lines in your house under different family names, and when FIOS is deployed, get only one of the POTS lines converted. Since the other POTS line is technically a different customer, they can't switch it over to FIOS unless that customer (the other family member) signs up for it.
- Dan
--
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
| |
| 
jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and RichK1957
Premium
join:2004-12-20
Port Jefferson Station, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Wake up folks! You all seem to be missing a BIG point here...
Fiber to the home is the REPLACEMENT for copper!
When your entire CO has converted all users to Fiber, the decommissioning of the copper plant will start.
Verizon has never intended to keep copper after it completes the fiber rollout.
If you are able to keep your copper link after they do the FIOS install, consider yourself on borrowed time.
As to battery backup, the ENTIRE phone system runs on batteries, backed up by AC power and generators. With the conversion to fiber, the UP-TIME for the system INCREASES because the fiber equipment uses less energy. I would assume the battery in your home will be on a replacement schedule, and most likely they will charge you something to replace it, or they have that cost tacked onto your bill already.
--
RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
..there's always room for JELLO! | |
| | 
PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
East Northport, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Wake up folks! The Battery in the BBU is not on a replacement schedule. VZ will replace it if it fails in the 1st year year. after that it is user replaceable.
There is a red light on the BBU "Replace Battery". The battery costs about $20 retail. The system will work fine even with no battery in it. | |
| | |
jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and RichK1957
Premium
join:2004-12-20
Port Jefferson Station, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Re: Wake up folks! said by PoloDude :The Battery in the BBU is not on a replacement schedule. VZ will replace it if it fails in the 1st year year. after that it is user replaceable. There is a red light on the BBU "Replace Battery". The battery costs about $20 retail. The system will work fine even with no battery in it. Thanks Polo, I was assuming that VZ would have a schedule, but considering the cost to replace, it is CHEAP blackout coverage...
--
RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
..there's always room for JELLO! | |
| 
Oh Please
@comcast.net
| Wanting to keep the copper when you can get ftth is akin to wanting your PC maker to keep a floppy drive in your new computer.
Verizon isn't spending all these billions of dollars to maintain a dual plant and in this case, a decades old worn out tired one.
BESIDES..they have other uses for all this copper they're going to rip out.
They'll be selling it to AT&T to use for their Next generation Uverse service. | |
| 
04192377
BooB Man
Premium
join:2007-04-07
Newark, DE | . Well I got my FiOS and copper still intact. So no complaints. | |
| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Migrate All Customers to Fiber I see a day when Verizon has deployed their fiber to everyone's curb with the customers that "want" FiOS having already subscribed and Verizon then migrating everyone else without their choice. It make no economical sense for Verizon to maintain two full infrastructures. It's funny that readers here at BBR bitch that telcos and cablecos aren't bringing new technology to the masses fast enough, and then when they do, they still bitch. Technology continues to progress and so must society. | |
| 
HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ
·VoicePulse
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | RE: FiOS Customers Complain About Copper Loss I didn't complain, I was glad to see the NID go and get and ONT in it's place. I guess it’s a concern for some but not others. As far as the battery backup, again not a big deal it’s just any other battery that you would replace in your UPS, alarm panel or emergency lighting. It’s going to be an additional $20 every 4 to 5 years. If you don't want to put out the funds for a battery every 4-5 years Fios is not for you. I actually went a step further and put a cheap UPS in front of my router and ONT to protect again spikes and buy some additional time if needed. If I had a complaint I would hope they had better phone features such as the VoIP providers, that said the TV and Internet service blow away all other competition. | |
| Whome
join:2005-10-10
Newbury Park, CA
| Missing the big picture Verizon, is removing Copper to keep other networks off their systems. They do not have to line share with FiOS, they DO with Copper. So while it is true that two networks are more expensive to maintain, that is not the main reason for pulling the copper "MORE REVENUE" is. | |
| | 
RIRWIN1983
join:2005-08-30
Columbus, OH | Re: Missing the big picture and you realy dont think that will get changed when the level of 100% fiber fed houses increases. I'm just waiting to readt the first law suit a CLEC brings against VZ bc of this. | |
| 
Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
clubs: | Why not share fiber? I think this whole debate would go away if the FCC would require that the fiber be shared, like copper is now. There is little to desire about copper technology other than the fact it keeps your options open. | |
| | 
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: Why not share fiber? That is an entire other contentious debate about how first-mile broadband infrastructure should be managed.
Right now consensus seems to be to let private enterprise build it and do whatever they want with it.
My guess is as Internet access becomes more integrated with everyday life over the years we will see a move to regulate first-mile access as a public commons. Much like telephone service was regulated as a common carrier. But that does not look like it is going to happen any time soon.
/Tom | |
| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
| Give it time... They have to give time for the Bells to make a guaranteed level of return before they do something that is in the customers best interest - opening the networks again.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
| madrhino
join:2004-07-03
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Dance with the Devil said by SquareSlinky :If you want the copper, than don't get FIOS. Enough of the copper crap. Thats what I did.I also switched my land phone over to a CLEC and will never have a Verizon product in my home.
When I lease this house in a few years I will include in the terms that no Verizon product be installed an no Verizon tech be allowed on the premises with out written permission.
Big problem in this society, nobody wants to go through the slightest inconvenience to do whats right.
As long as people allow these savage predatory companies like Verizon to jeopardize lives for the sake of profit they will.Everybody jusy went "ooh" and "Ahh" about FIOS speeds and ignored the foothold it gives this evil company into so many homes.
--
Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
| | Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
| Re: Dance with the Devil Concerning your comments about never allowing a Verizon tech on the premise. How is the drop to your house going to be repaired, how can telephone trouble be tested at the nid? Most CLECs do not maintain the last mile, but the telco maintains their cables, drops, etc?
Just wondered? | |
| |
SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | That is just stupid.
How many people have switched their phones to their cable company? Do they offer a back up in case of emergency? Nope. Relax people. Enjoy the technology....at least those that can get it. | |
| | Tech_Guy
join:2007-06-13
Ontario, CA
| said by madrhino :said by SquareSlinky :If you want the copper, than don't get FIOS. Enough of the copper crap. Thats what I did.I also switched my land phone over to a CLEC and will never have a Verizon product in my home. When I lease this house in a few years I will include in the terms that no Verizon product be installed an no Verizon tech be allowed on the premises with out written permission. Big problem in this society, nobody wants to go through the slightest inconvenience to do whats right. As long as people allow these savage predatory companies like Verizon to jeopardize lives for the sake of profit they will.Everybody jusy went "ooh" and "Ahh" about FIOS speeds and ignored the foothold it gives this evil company into so many homes. Sorry you got weren't hired at Verizon but you shouldn't be that mad. Are you so enraged that you can't see clearly, do you not remember who came to install you CLEC line, it was a Verizon tech. Your clec is paying verizon money every month to lease their network, so you are paying Verizon.
You obviously are deranged, "FIOS gives evil company foothold into many homes", the foothold was already there and unless the CEO of Verizon personally ate your baby, your description of this or any other company in those terms only makes you look insane. | |
| | davl
join:2006-01-28
Furlong, PA
| said by madrhino : When I lease this house in a few years I will include in the terms that no Verizon product be installed an no Verizon tech be allowed on the premises with out written permission. Better check with your lawyer on that lease. You can restrict your tenant from installing services such as cable and satellite dishes BUT you can not restrict their choice of phone service providers. | |
| 
Slidetbone
Mazin Go
Premium
join:2002-11-10
Land O Lakes, FL
| Want copper, then don't order Fios! It's as simple as that! End conversation!
Provider options go away? Well, the CLEC's resell over Verizon lines, so what's the difference? I can tell you one, another middleman in the process! Cheaper? PLEASE GMAFB!!
People want it all at the price of nothing. Go back 7 years on this board and look at the DSL and cable pricing back then...$50 for 768 DSL!! And the funny thing; PEOPLE PAID FOR IT!
Want Fios? You will lose copper. Don't want to lose it, then don't order..in fact don't even call! Save the company the call on copper!
Copper has a higher maintenance cost than fiber and most all techs know this. ALL TELCO, cable and telecomm companies know that miles and miles of fiber used for trunking and links is much more cheaper than copper. Even cheaper than the radio equipment used for point to point comm trunks!
You run a business, you want the best for it. Save overhead, increase profit. Whats wrong with that?
Here is a fact; shit ain't free!
Battery unit? WAA WAAA! Go to the Fios Forum and see what creative minds have done; from APC/UPS to the car battery cable jumper. $20 is nothing even if you have to replace the battery every 5 years. That's about a quarter a month for 5 years, so save that loose change if this is such a big issue to you! And in a power outage situation, who in the hell is going to speak 4 hours straight? Got a generator, then the problem is moot.
What if a big truck took out that copper RT? Guess what, you will not get -48VDC on that copper line until it is fixed. So, what's the deal?
Competition? Monopoly? Excuses excuses.
The future is here. As consumers, we have a choice and if we take it, it was our decision to do so.
Buy a new car and trade your ole reliable in..new car sucks after 30 days? Guess what, you ain't getting back your traded-in 4 beater! Don't want to give up the jalopy? Then, keep it and pay big for it's repair bill....
Don't want Fios? Then don't call, and DON'T ORDER IT!
Want Fios? Then get ready for a treat!
Dang! Had to let that one off!  | |
| 
h8verizonDSL
Had fiber today
join:2005-02-25
Middletown, DE
1 edit | Some POTS customers get FiOS for FREE Hello,
Some customers get POTS over FiOS for the cost of POTS. When there are no copper pairs to be had, and many trouble tickets are written for weather related issues, VZ simply changes the customer over to Fiber to avoid fixing copper related issues. The customer does not pay to be converted or for the use of, and in most cases, does not know. | |
| | | 
ret369
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Warminster, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Do analog modems work on fiber too? I know I'm going to be flamed but..
I say, if you want to keep your copper, then you should be charged a set price(around $200) to keep it. I haven't used copper in 2 years and don't miss it a bit. The copper by me was always being chewed apart anyway so who cares..
My copper line was off the air(no dial tone) at least 3 times a year for between 3 days to a week because of being chewed up so bad.. Just my $.02 | |
| | | 
stomp357
join:2003-04-13
Lake Charles, LA
·Suddenlink
| Re: Do analog modems work on fiber too? said by ret369 :I know I'm going to be flamed but.. I say, if you want to keep your copper, then you should be charged a set price(around $200) to keep it. I haven't used copper in 2 years and don't miss it a bit. The copper by me was always being chewed apart anyway so who cares.. My copper line was off the air(no dial tone) at least 3 times a year for between 3 days to a week because of being chewed up so bad.. Just my $.02 Hmm... You must live in an area where all sorts of vermin roam. I live in SW LA, and squirrels, raccoons, & opossums populate even the city. I have never, in the 15yrs of having copper lost service because of chewed wiring. Even when I lived in the country. I can't say that I ever lost service for more than 40min, or so except a while back when someone cut a fiber line between here, and Lafayette, which Brought the whole city of Lake Charles down. I can count on one hand how many times I lost service in the last 10yrs. Now cable (was Cox now Suddenlink), that goes down multiple times a month.
I'm for fiber, but like I said, I want to keep compatibility as well. Of course, I live in the copper only territory, and fiber will never be installed to this city. By the time AT&T decides to offer it, there will be a new technology that surpasses fiber by leaps, & bounds that everyone else will already be enjoying. | |
| |
Slidetbone
Mazin Go
Premium
join:2002-11-10
Land O Lakes, FL
| said by stomp357 : Never heard if this is a limitation of fiber, or not. I use my fax modem from time to time, and still play some old modem multiplayer games with a friend. These games don't work well with modem/lan emulation software over the net (still has lag issues even on broadband, or needs real DOS... Not DOSBox). I'd want to keep my copper as well if this is an issue. Fios, as long as you subscribe to the POTS service will work with faxes and dial-up modems. I can tell you that I have tried it and the dial-up connection works great. I also send numerous faxes with no problems. | |
| 
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Ugh Don't these people realize that once you have fiber, there is no reason to ever have copper again? | |
| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: Ugh And the reason would be? | |
| | | | 
Mactron
Happy 4th
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv | Re: Ugh Reading the entire thread before posting ?..
I know, it's asking a lot. | |
| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Re: Ugh Thanks, I've read the whole thread. Care to enlighten me with a valid reason? | |
| | tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL
·Speakeasy
| said by Rob A :Don't these people realize that once you have fiber, there is no reason to ever have copper again? That all depends on the level of evilness / general incompetence the FIOS vendor delivers..
Some of us, don't want to talk to a foreign national when something goes wrong with the local service. How often (and for how long) do they screw-up the DNS, Mail server, NNTP server, routing, etc? Same goes for blocking incoming mail, port #'2, impose line shaping and/or profiling? Or just role over and send a copy of your activities to the NSA?
Some of US want a choice, unshared FIOS offers none of that. | |
| Taget
join:2004-07-29 | I kept my copper perfectly fine... ...I use a different company for local phone service so they kept the copper and just gave me fiber for my internet. No arguments in fact they were the ones who told me they'd be keeping the copper. Never had to even ask. | |
|
NJ Fios Tech
@verizon.net
|  Is everyone that clueless!!!
Second, if you cancel your fios voice service and order dial tone from a clec we still have copper drop wire 3pr+6pr and we still have techs that will go to you house and place a copper drop wire network interface and ground wire and tag it for the clec...
| |
|
anon285
@verizon.net
| Copper Removal On July 2, 2007. FIOS was installed outside of Newtown, PA and the installer was very cooperative and well trained.
I asked specifically about the copper and he had no intention of removing it and from our discussions, the installers simply ignore the copper. Actually, I had hoped that he would take down the copper. From a ligntning strike safety standpoint, removing the copper would be a great idea. A connection was made between the new ONT and the existing copper NT.
The installer made a point of telling me that all that needed to be done at the house to go back to copper was to restore the copper connection at the NT.
In this particular installation FIOS video was not included. The ONT R/G-6 output was simply connected to the existing house wiring through a block that multiplexed the orignal cable signal with the ONT output.
I have no idea what happened to the copper at the CO end. | |
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FiOS Customers Complain About Copper Loss
An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance
Do analog modems work on fiber too?