  Arctic nut
join:2006-11-26 Thief River Falls, MN
·HughesNet Satellit..
·Alltel Axess
| So what?!?! Who cares if it becomes a monopoly? Society existed without satellite radio and will continue to exist if it dies. I for one would miss the hell out of it as I sub both XM and Sirius. Both are loosing money and sooner or later the lights will go out if they don't become profitable. If the merger forms one fiscally healthy company then so be it. I find it rather humorous that the same FCC that allowed Ma Bell to reunite is giving this a second thought. | |
|  |   Mactron el camino Real Premium join:2001-12-16 CM94sv
| Re: So what?!?! said by Arctic nut :I find it rather humorous that the same FCC that allowed Ma Bell to reunite is giving this a second thought. Chuckles to self, Yup ! 
The NAB is against this, so it must be a good thing to merge. Better one Sat. Radio Co. rather than none, as this current Sat. radio train wreck is headed. -- If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well.  | |
|  |  |  Lysis
join:2005-03-30 Brooklyn, NY
| Re: So what?!?! this is a sham the merger would benefit consumers (twice at much programing - and they say they will lower the price) the merger benefits satellite radio and allows satellite radio to exist NAB and the regular radios do not like satellite, and lobbying hard against this merger, and its working apparently - 180 days!! bad for consumers that the politcians are listening to them | |
|  |  |  |  matrix3D
join:2006-09-27 Deep River, CT | Re: So what?!?! Right. We all know that people in the business world are totally honest: just ask Ken Lay. | |
|  |  |  |   xmsirius2020
@vif.net
| would NOT be twice as much programming... since alot of channels play the same content (same genre), there is no point to have 2x country, 2x 80, 2x 90's and so on.
The best part would be having all the sports in one place, MLB, NHL, NBA, Nascar... whatever else there is. | |
|  |  |  |  |  ElJay
join:2004-03-17
·Great Works Internet
| Re: So what?!?! It's definitely going to lead to less content choice on the music spectrum. Karmazin has already admitted that the "similar" music channels will likely have their operations combined. The ONLY people who are going to be happy with this deal are those who need to hear every f--king pro sports event under the sun, and that assumes there's enough bandwidth on both services to support it. The MLB channels can take up something like 256kbps on XM, and I think that's a lot considering that their two transponders only put out about 3mbps each.
Both of these services sound like total crap. Unfortunately neither one seems to care anything at all about sound quality. (XM actually seems to put effort into making it sound like crap by adding EQ in an attempt to override the decisions made by the audio coder that is pumping out puny little 32 or 40kbps steams.) | |
|  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Arctic nut :Who cares if it becomes a monopoly? We have to oppose this terminology at all costs. Even if there is one satellite radio company, it is not even close to being a monopoly. It would still compete with crappy terrestrial radio as well as stored content on CDs and MP3 players. This isn't anywhere close to a monopoly. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
|  |  |   Arctic nut
join:2006-11-26 Thief River Falls, MN
·HughesNet Satellit..
·Alltel Axess
| Re: So what?!?! said by pnh102 :said by Arctic nut :Who cares if it becomes a monopoly? We have to oppose this terminology at all costs. Even if there is one satellite radio company, it is not even close to being a monopoly. It would still compete with crappy terrestrial radio as well as stored content on CDs and MP3 players. This isn't anywhere close to a monopoly. Why?? When one company owns the rights to the entire allocated spectrum for a particular service, that makes the entity who owns the rights a monopoly in that arena. No to mention what ever is going to happen will do so regardless of what I think and/or which terminology I use. Nothing changes the fact that a business has to make a profit. The current players have yet to do so which can not continue in the long term. In the mean time, I choose to have both services. If they end up merging, I will likely sub the remaining service. If they go broke and cease operation, I will return to DMX, record to an MP3 player and get my tune fix that way. IMHO, I would still rather have two players but one viable player in the satellite radio game is better than none. | |
|  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: So what?!?!
said by Arctic nut :Why?? When one company owns the rights to the entire allocated spectrum for a particular service, that makes the entity who owns the rights a monopoly in that arena. No to mention what ever is going to happen will do so regardless of what I think and/or which terminology I use. The market is satellite radio. The market is competition for terrestrial broadcasters, but terrestrial broadcasters are not competition for satellite radio.
You must be in close physical proximity to terrestrial FM transmitter in order to receive the station that you want to hear. The only place to hear your hometown FM station is in your hometown area. Only a few AM broadcasters operate on clear channels, at high power to be able to reach a large area of the CONUS. Even then, capricious propagation, fading and other characteristics of the middle-wave band make broadcast AM radio unreliable. In contrast, satellite radio delivers the same content no matter where you are. You can listen to the exact same programming on satellite while you're out camping, far away from any FM station, and where few MW signals reach.
Yes, this merger would create a monopoly. No doubt about that. If it protects the capital investments of the people who bought these radios, which aren't good for anything else, and keeps viable satellites productive, then it may be worth it. But not for a moment do I believe that a merger will reduce subscription fees, as claimed. I also doubt that any kind of software retrofits will obviate the need to purchase new radios for the new merged service. In fact, I have a hunch that existing radios will become useless sooner than later, after new hardware licensing deals are signed.
Not that I particularly care, though. When it comes to music, the media giants are pandering to the lowest common denominator. I don't fall into that group. For me, Internet radio is the only medium that's providing content that I'd want to listen to. | |
|  |  |  |  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: So what?!?! said by Time4aNAP :The market is satellite radio. Only if you are against this merger. That is the most narrow market definition possible. The more logical definition of the relevant product market includes terrestrial radio as the relevant product market. A broader definition includes digital audio players, internet radio, etc.
said by Time4aNAP :Yes, this merger would create a monopoly. No doubt about that.
Only if you are relying on the most superficial definition of a monopoly. Otherwise, yes, there very much is doubt about that. Just because the merged entity would be the only sat radio provider does not mean it qould have sufficient market power to unilaterally raise prices. In fact, most of the data suggest otherwise. said by Time4aNAP :Not that I particularly care, though. When it comes to music, the media giants are pandering to the lowest common denominator. I don't fall into that group. For me, Internet radio is the only medium that's providing content that I'd want to listen to. Another example of someone claiming the merger would result in a monopoly, while simultaneously proving that the relevant product market is broader than sat radio. -- The Monkey | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: So what?!?! Well Monkey, the fact of the matter is that in the real world, the dog wags it's tail, not the other way around. The facts remain the same, regardless of my opinion or yours. You can resort to name-calling, but it still doesn't alter the definition of a monopoly. And you have completely evaded my argument, which pretty much says it all.
I don't see any data that suggests that having but one choice in satellite radio will lower prices for that Cingular...er, I mean singular service. And no, the opinions expressed by a couple of special interest groups that have a demonstrable vested interest in the merger is not data. What I do see is a long history of unmitigated greed among unregulated monopolies. From the steam railroads to AT&T, it has been a consistent pattern.
Your ad hominem attacks fail to impress. Nothing new here. Move along, folks... | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
2 edits | Re: So what?!?! said by Time4aNAP :Well Monkey, the fact of the matter is that in the real world, the dog wags it's tail, not the other way around. The facts remain the same, regardless of my opinion or yours. You can resort to name-calling, but it still doesn't alter the definition of a monopoly. And you have completely evaded my argument, which pretty much says it all. I don't see any data that suggests that having but one choice in satellite radio will lower prices for that Cingular...er, I mean singular service. And no, the opinions expressed by a couple of special interest groups that have a demonstrable vested interest in the merger is not data. What I do see is a long history of unmitigated greed among unregulated monopolies. From the steam railroads to AT&T, it has been a consistent pattern. Your ad hominem attacks fail to impress. Nothing new here. Move along, folks... My, aren't we defensive? Someone refutes your "arguments" and you turn it into a character assault. In other words, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, but just want to spout a bunch of nonsense.
EDIT: also, you seem keen on speaking in "real world" terms, yet your posts indicate you do not have "real world" experience dealing with antitrust issues. -- The Monkey | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: So what?!?! said by The Monkey :My, aren't we defensive? Someone refutes your "arguments" and you turn it into a character assault. Those are your words, not mine. I was simply pointing out that your rather primitive use of logical fallacy failed. But since you admit that your attack is in fact a verbal assault, I'll be sure to mark you for moderation.
In other words, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, but just want to spout a bunch of nonsense. So you say. And once again fail to back it up with any evidence whatsoever. Since your intent is belligerence, you can explain yourself to the management. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: So what?!?! said by Time4aNAP :said by The Monkey :My, aren't we defensive? Someone refutes your "arguments" and you turn it into a character assault. Those are your words, not mine. I was simply pointing out that your rather primitive use of logical fallacy failed. But since you admit that your attack is in fact a verbal assault, I'll be sure to mark you for moderation. lol, your answer to those who don't agree with you is to seek moderation. Sad. -- The Monkey | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: So what?!?! said by The Monkey :lol, your answer to those who don't agree with you is to seek moderation. No, not at all. It has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me, or the fact that you can't make a case for your disagreement. It's because you chose to express your disagreement as a flame, rather than as an adult conversation. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: So what?!?! said by Time4aNAP :said by The Monkey :lol, your answer to those who don't agree with you is to seek moderation. No, not at all. It has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me, or the fact that you can't make a case for your disagreement. It's because you chose to express your disagreement as a flame, rather than as an adult conversation. Craziness. Go back and re-read the posts. If that's a flame, then most of this board will need to be moderated, including your own posts!
EDIT: to get back on topic, you should take a look at Hazlett's recent white paper and also read the DOJ's Horizontal Merger Guidelines. Hazlett's analysis is strong, but biased. Regardless, the two pieces should show you (and others) why the blanket statement that the merged entity would be a monopoly fails to engage in the economic analysis required in such mergers. -- The Monkey | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: So what?!?! Nice to see that you've decided to join the conversation.
If you're referring to the US Department of Justice, the one that's currently in big trouble for abandoning its duties to act as a political body, you can understand why I'm going to pass on that source. The fact still remains that having only one vendor in a market does constitute a monopoly. It's a basic truth that's not up for debate.
If Sirius and XM aren't turning a profit, and they could operate more efficiently as a single entity, that's fine as long as they emerge from bankruptcy with only one of the two franchise licenses. If there are any takers for that franchise, then there will be competition and the public at large will have been served.
If there are no takers, which I suspect would be the case, then the Sirius/XM merged entity needs to be regulated as the monopoly that it would be. The remaining bandwidth can be repurposed for some other service, possibly a terrestrial digital broadcast radio service following the lead of Europe's Eureka 147.
As I noted earlier, Sirius and XM spited themselves by failing to agree on a common receiver design. IME a radio that allows a choice of vendors fosters healthy competition and serves the public well. For example, AMPS phones were built to a common standard, allowing them to be switched between two services at will. And the AMPS industry flourished.
IMO Sirius and/or XM should try that avenue first. According to the literature produced in favor of the merger, a simple firmware upgrade can convert existing Sirius and XM receivers to receive both frequency bands. If true, that means that existing receivers can be retrofitted for competitive operation at a nominal cost. This will allow the market to decide the fate of the players. And if it's a lie, then that's yet another reason to suspect the merger proposal.
So there are several alternatives to creating a monopoly. Therefore the haste in creating the monopoly is unwarranted. Neither Sirius nor XM have any right to survive. If one or both fail, that is part of the risk of capitalism. But I'd think long and hard before granting monopoly status in a time and market where a monopoly does nothing to serve the public at large. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: So what?!?! said by Time4aNAP :Nice to see that you've decided to join the conversation. If you're referring to the US Department of Justice, the one that's currently in big trouble for abandoning its duties to act as a political body, you can understand why I'm going to pass on that source. The fact still remains that having only one vendor in a market does constitute a monopoly. It's a basic truth that's not up for debate. If you're not going to even take the time to educate yourself about the fundamentals of antitrust law and analysis, then this conversation is an exercise in futility. The merger guidelines are THE starting point for any antitrust review, and are largely emulated by most credible competition authorities around the world. I actually share your sentiments about DOJ's recent behavior in respect to its other duties, but the guidelines are apolitical (and predate this administration). Further, if you had ever dealt with one of the agencies (DOJ or FTC) on such issues, you would know that the line attorneys, and most of their supervisors, really don't give a hoot about the politics. And their economists certainly don't.
Again, your take on what constitues a monopoly utterly fails to consider that a true monopolist is a firm that is the sole provider of goods that can charge whatever it wants because there are no close substitutes. Such is not the case here. There are plenty of close substitutes, listed ad nauseum in this thread and in the articles, that will render the merged entity unable to unilaterally raise prices without losing customers. In other words, you state that one vendor in a market is a monopoly, but you just assume the most narrow market definition possible, which is a mistake.
Finally, ask yourself why the NAB is so opposed to the deal. The only reasonable interpretation of its opposition is that such a deal threatens terrestrial radio's market share--in other words, promotes competition.
EDIT: for typos. -- The Monkey | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: So what?!?! said by moonpuppy :Might want to let Clear Channel know about that. They consider satellite radio a very big and real threat. They have been fighting against it for years because it cuts into their advertising profits. I'm not going to take it as a given that satellite, or anything else for that matter "cuts into" Clear Channel's advertising profits. And so what if it does?
Television, newspapers, magazines, billboards...all kinds of things are used to advertise products. Clear Channel is no more entitled to that ad revenue than they are to satellite radio ad revenue. If their rate cards are looking bad, they might want to entertain the idea that boring people to death with formulaic programming and tons of commercials might possibly have something to do with it.
The fact remains that satellite radio is a separate market from terrestrial broadcasting.
So what's next? Is someone going to cite all of the walkie-talkies in the world as "proof" that a one-company marketplace isn't a monopoly? Seriously folks, playing with semantics can be entertaining if you're clever, but this isn't. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: So what?!?! said by Time4aNAP :I'm not going to take it as a given that satellite, or anything else for that matter "cuts into" Clear Channel's advertising profits. And so what if it does? Clear Channel has made it VERY clear they consider satellite radio a big threat to terrestrial radio. They did everything in their power to stop it in the beginning and keep trying to stop it from making them turn off their repeaters to making RIAA member companies charge more per song.
said by Time4aNAP :Television, newspapers, magazines, billboards...all kinds of things are used to advertise products. Clear Channel is no more entitled to that ad revenue than they are to satellite radio ad revenue. If their rate cards are looking bad, they might want to entertain the idea that boring people to death with formulaic programming and tons of commercials might possibly have something to do with it. Why change your business model if it is easier to cry foul? See cable companies and telco companies.
said by Time4aNAP :The fact remains that satellite radio is a separate market from terrestrial broadcasting. To you and me maybe but not to the terrestrial broadcasters. The Jack-FM concept was one way to combat this but they are still playing a lot of commercials to pay for the airtime and people are noticing. Look how CBS radio sued Howard Stern when he went to Sirius trying to stop their cash cow from leaving.
said by Time4aNAP :So what's next? Is someone going to cite all of the walkie-talkies in the world as "proof" that a one-company marketplace isn't a monopoly? Seriously folks, playing with semantics can be entertaining if you're clever, but this isn't. Motorola is not the ONLY walkie-talkie maker out there. While they are a market leader, I have seen GE, Icom, Kenwood and various others out in the market.
If you are talking about the Nextel service, Verizon tried it but couldn't get it to work right so that's why they put it on the back back burner. | |
|  |  ackman
join:2000-10-04 Acworth, GA
| said by Arctic nut :I find it rather humorous that the same FCC that allowed Ma Bell to reunite is giving this a second thought. I think the AT&T deal was much different. In my opinion, the AT&T merger was blessed by our imperialistic administration because AT&T had happily given up private customer data and monitoring to the NSA without a warrant, in clear violation of FISA. Quid pro quo, perhaps? | |
|  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | sad thing is people are worried about zero competition in Sat radio yet sit idle while Clear Channel snaps up any not already corperate own station it can. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| People talking out of their a$$... The Americans for Tax Reform and The 60 Plus Association both say that the merger would create a more appealing, family-friendly product. And they base that line of bullshit on what facts ? They seriously believe that Sirius and XM are suddenly going to stop playing the uncensored versions of songs, start bleeping out the F-word, etc. and start sounding more like the crap that is called terrestrial radio ? How much you want to bet "more family-friendly" means no electronic stations because electronic music supposedly encourages drug use ?
Seriously, a more "family-friendly" product... That statement right there is enough to make me want to oppose the merger.
The second satellite starts being like regular radio - all pussified because there might be children listening - I'm putting my receiver on Ebay and saying good riddance... The new company can have the spineless tightwads who want censored radio. -- Prove it... Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
|  |  kinabrew
join:2002-02-01
·Comcast
| Re: People talking out of their a$$... The second satellite starts being like regular radio - all pussified because there might be children listening - I'm putting my receiver on Ebay and saying good riddance... The new company can have the spineless tightwads who want censored radio. I agree completely. I don't expect that they would start censoring, but if they do, I'll drop my subscription.
I absolutely *hate* when I'm listening to a song I really like and then there's a second of silence or a distorted word, or even worse, replacement words. It's just like a skip and it destroys the song. | |
|  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| I totally agree with you. Sirius makes my daily drive to work bearable. If they become just as bad as regular radio... it won't be pretty.
I am so sick of this "family friendly" crap. People who don't want their children listening to or watching objectionable material should do the right thing and keep their kids from it instead of making the rest of us suffer. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
|  |  |   ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs:
·VOIPo
| Re: People talking out of their a$$... said by pnh102 :..... I am so sick of this "family friendly" crap. People who don't want their children listening to or watching objectionable material should do the right thing and keep their kids from it instead of making the rest of us suffer. Ahhhh yes... But that would mean that parents would actually have to take some RESPONSIBILITY for their kids actions and in teaching them. That is absolutely not allowed this day and time... [/sarcasm]
Off topic, but, it is just like the other day when a 14 year old was killed jumping into one of the canals here. There are signs clearly posted displaying no swimming or jumping into the canal. There are fences in place to deter them, however, the parents fully blame the city for not putting up more fences in order to stop THEIR 14 year old... -- FWD#: 223611 | |
|  |  |  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: People talking out of their a$$... said by ropeguru :said by pnh102 :..... I am so sick of this "family friendly" crap. People who don't want their children listening to or watching objectionable material should do the right thing and keep their kids from it instead of making the rest of us suffer. Ahhhh yes... But that would mean that parents would actually have to take some RESPONSIBILITY for their kids actions and in teaching them. That is absolutely not allowed this day and time... [/sarcasm] Off topic, but, it is just like the other day when a 14 year old was killed jumping into one of the canals here. There are signs clearly posted displaying no swimming or jumping into the canal. There are fences in place to deter them, however, the parents fully blame the city for not putting up more fences in order to stop THEIR 14 year old... hahahah you think a fence matters? somewhere in here in the NY area some kid climbed a fence and was defacing LIRR train signals and got hit by a train. parents are suing the MTA.
im waiting for a kid to climb into a sub station and come out in shopvac and the parents to sue the power company claiming a barb wire fence wasnt enough. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  |  |  |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| said by ropeguru :Off topic, but, it is just like the other day when a 14 year old was killed jumping into one of the canals here. There are signs clearly posted displaying no swimming or jumping into the canal. There are fences in place to deter them, however, the parents fully blame the city for not putting up more fences in order to stop THEIR 14 year old... Yeah, $deity forbid it was their kids fault because he/she was a dumbass worthy of a Darwin Award... Oh no, it's the city's fault because they didn't do everything possible to keep the stupid people alive.  -- Prove it... Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
|  |   GTaylor Premium join:2002-12-14 Frisco, TX clubs: | Opie and Anthony were suspended for a skit in order to appease the FTC (Had there been no merger I think they would have weathered the storm). That pressure may get worse when you become the only game in town. | |
|  |  |   Corona It's cool, I'm takin it back Premium join:2000-03-14 Aubrey, TX | Re: People talking out of their a$$... If this goes through, O&A are finished. No way will Howie Boy Karmizan allow them to stay and do a show on the same network. | |
|  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| said by bmn :The Americans for Tax Reform and The 60 Plus Association both say that the merger would create a more appealing, family-friendly product. And they base that line of bullshit on what facts ? The factual basis for their posture regarding this matter is that both groups are investors and not listeners. The merger is good for them on a strictly financial basis. Their "more appealing, family-friendly product" claim is total BS, of course. The motive is greed.
Obviously the Americans for Tax Reform [sic] group is a bunch of wealthy people who don't want to pay taxes. I have a hunch that the name "60 Plus Association", which is ostensibly in reference to the age of its membership, is more likely a reference to a certain tax bracket. one that only the wealthiest people fall within. | |
|   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA
| Taking longer than Exxon If terrestrial broadcasters says the merger is bad, then it's obviously good. Satellite radio has competition from media players like the iPod, regular OTA radio and other entertainment sources. There is no monopoly to be had. It's a bogus argument. As it stands now if you want to listen to MLB and Stern you have to have 2 radios and pay for 2 subscriptions. How is that good for consumers? It's not. Consumers would benefit hugely from being able to buy a single radio and getting all the programming.
It's only good for terrestrial broadcasters who stand on the sidelines with an ear to ear grin while XM and Sirius fight each other.
Meanwhile the Exxon merger which actually MATTERED to people as well as being a national security issue went through in record time.
I have to question a gov't who spends more time worried about Howard Stern than they do about Exxon. -- Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
|  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Taking longer than Exxon said by ColorBASIC :If terrestrial broadcasters says the merger is bad, then it's obviously good. The irony here is that this display of defiance of terrestrial broadcasters still has them making the choice.
Satellite radio has competition from media players like the iPod, regular OTA radio and other entertainment sources. There is no monopoly to be had. It's a bogus argument. Well, at least the last part is true. The above is a bogus argument. My media player has a radio tuner built into it. But it can't create a radio station. No music that's not in my collection, no ready-made playlists, not even close. That's an apples to oranges comparison if there ever was one. It also completely ignores the basic fact that a marketplace with only one vendor allowed in is, by definition, a monopoly. And no, lumping one market together with others in reference doesn't magically make them one.
As it stands now if you want to listen to MLB and Stern you have to have 2 radios and pay for 2 subscriptions. How is that good for consumers? It's not. At least not for that subset of consumers of satellite radios who wish to listen to two things at once. I'm not anything close to convinced that that's a substantial group.
Consumers would benefit hugely from being able to buy a single radio and getting all the programming. Quite true. But since that can be done without forming a monopoly, what does it have to do with the topic?
It's only good for terrestrial broadcasters who stand on the sidelines with an ear to ear grin while XM and Sirius fight each other. Not knowing what "it" is, I'll take this to be just more misdirection.
Meanwhile the Exxon merger which actually MATTERED to people as well as being a national security issue went through in record time. As I said above... 
I have to question a gov't who spends more time worried about Howard Stern than they do about Exxon. You haven't yet established that that is in fact the case. But that's not important, is it? | |
|   John97 Over The Hills And Far Away Premium join:2000-11-14 Southampton, PA
| No thanks. Keep the companies separate. I'm opposed to the merger because I see no good coming from it. Mel Karmazin wants to make it just like commercial radio, with the key word being commercial. He's all-for increasing the amount of advertising aired on satellite radio. If I am going to get bombarded with commercials, I'll go back to listening to regular radio. | |
|  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: No thanks. Keep the companies separate. said by John97 :I'm opposed to the merger because I see no good coming from it. . . . If I am going to get bombarded with commercials, I'll go back to listening to regular radio. That right there is the exact reason why the merger should be permitted; if dissatisfied, you would change to terrestrial radio, showing that the relevant market is broader than sat radio. -- The Monkey | |
|  |  bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
| said by John97 :I'm opposed to the merger because I see no good coming from it. Mel Karmazin wants to make it just like commercial radio, with the key word being commercial. He's all-for increasing the amount of advertising aired on satellite radio. If I am going to get bombarded with commercials, I'll go back to listening to regular radio. The only place you are likely to see commercials is the channels that ALREADY have commercials, like the talk radio channels. The music channels are more likely than not going to stay commercial free because Karmazin knows that the only selling points that Sat. Radio has over terrestrial radio is music without commercials and no censorship of the content. -- Prove it... Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
|  |  |  |  |   Arctic nut
join:2006-11-26 Thief River Falls, MN
·HughesNet Satellit..
·Alltel Axess
| Re: This cracks me up! said by qworster :Both the FCC and Congress have been anti-competition forever! Just look at how much the cable and telco monopoly has gotten from them-at the expense of competition! Yet, when one merger that seems to make sense for consumers comes along, they're against it! Why? This one is as transparent as it gets. The NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) has been fighting satellite radio since its beginning. Why? Because it gives the consumer more CHOICE! More choice means less listening to the likes of Clear Channel and other radio stations. Oh, did I mention that the NAB is one of the top five lobbyists (read: BRIBER$) of Congress and Bush? After all, Clear Channel is based in Texas and their Chairman is a personal friend of the Bu$h family. Make no mi$take, this i$ NOT for your benefit-it'$ for their$. $$$ Get it? We have the Be$t government money can buy here in the good old U$A! Couldn't have said it better. Lets not forget this same NAB was singing a totally different tune in the 90's as pertains to competition when it came to reception of distant network television signals. They fought tooth and nail to get the SHVA passed to limit choice. The NAB does for broadcast media what the MPAA and the RIAA have done for hard copy media. | |
|  Madmick
join:2002-12-12 East Northport, NY
| To hell with Melvin and his pal Howie... Melvin helped push for twenty minute blocks of commercials on terrestrial, so anything Melvin is for, I'm against.
Same thing with that washed up has-been Howie. He's got the sweetest gig in the world making a ton of cash working part-time, with all the vacation days and every Friday off. So, I want no part of my sub going to pay for him and his endless loop of repeats. Blame Joe Clayton for this mess (he's the tool that agreed to pay Howie handsomely with little to no effort on Howie's part, IMO.)
XM has been watering down a lot of their music channels and if they didn't have O&A, I'd tell them to take a flying leap off the Empire State building. | |
|  |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: To hell with Melvin and his pal Howie... So basically you don't want this merger that benefits both sets of subscribers to go through because your jealous of "howies" gig ?
Sounds like you got a great point there. My brother just bought a brand new honda pilot. He has XM they gave it to him for a year FREE. After a week it sucks so bad compared to Sirius he is looking for an alternative already. If you want crappy programming and are happy with it then so be it , you can have O and A and no other content. But me I'll take O and A and "howie" as well as my commercial free music channels and much better channel programming that can come from the merger.
I love when people are jealous of others and want them to fail because of it. It makes victory so much sweeter.
Try coming up with a point for why this is bad other then your jealousy and maybe we will take you Siriusly  -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|  |  |  Madmick
join:2002-12-12 East Northport, NY
| Re: To hell with Melvin and his pal Howie... To each their own, I say.
If you think SIRI is better then XM, good for you. Enjoy the repetitive playlists and the price increase once this merger is crushed. Melvin will have to think up another scam to get people to pay for his golden goose. Or maybe he'll just revert back to his old stand-by, commercials. Enjoy them.
| |
|   Phoenix Gold Hypocrite
join:2001-11-24 Faulkton, SD clubs:
| .. quote: A 72-member bipartisan group of Congressional leaders agrees that says that sanctioning the marriage of the only competitors in the satellite radio market would create a monopoly which would be devastating to consumers.
Anyone know where to find a list of the congressmen who signed? The article doesn't give a complete list. -- The insects are huge and the poison's all been used, and the drugs won't kill your day job | |
|  molecriket
join:2001-02-26 Edgewater, FL
| Merger concequences Let's say the merger is not approved. The satellite companies battle for four or five more years with Sirius the eventual winner as Xm caves. This is the most likely outcome. So, why not let them merge now so one of the company's stockholders don't lose all? Hold the new company to their word of better service w/ lower cost. | |
|  |  BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15 Everett, MA clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Merger concequences Why do that ?
Obviously this country has no other concerns then 2 companies merging in a competitive market.
I mean for heavens sake Exxon merger goes through and we got higher fuel costs. But you know that is not a problem , the rich guys in Washington are having their gas paid for with our tax money.
Look at AT&T they are not even holding to their promises and are not even being bothered about it.
This country has become a joke and nothing more then a money grab from all sides. Those of us who actually care about the well being of our country are being pushed out slowly by the greed of others. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|   phattieg
join:2001-04-29 Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| I don't care if it's nationwide or not... I think with the invention/usage of HD radio, people are going to start preferring free over subscription based. I believe this is why these companies are suffering (XM and Sirius), well, maybe not "suffering" but they damn sure are considering a merger to "help things out". It's all over rated to me. I can stream shoutcast from my cell phone while driving around town, and it keeps a 30 second buffer, so weak signals should not be an issue. Oh well, I like the "free" approach. -- SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
|  |  |   The Monkey I like bananas Premium join:2000-10-08 New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: I'm against it said by timcuth :Hmmm. I am pro-competition and anti-price fixing. So, I guess I am against the merger.  Tim Even if the merger is actually more likely to be pro-competitive? -- The Monkey | |
|  |  |   timcuth Braves Fan Premium join:2000-09-18 Pelham, AL clubs:
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: I'm against it I have read the twisted arguments, but it is beyond me how merging the only two entities that are in the same business can be pro-competition. Right now, if I want to buy subscription satellite radio service, I have two choices. Each has its own programming and features, upon which I make my decision as a consumer. If they merge, that choice will be gone. Where is the competition?
Tim -- If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to. - Dorothy Parker ~ Project Hope ~ | |
|  |   hitman_001 Premium join:2006-11-20 Laredo, TX
| Doesnt really matter if you are for or against. You can be for it.. You can be against it. But the thing you can be most sure of is this, Whatever decision is made, our best interests as consumers wont be the deciding factor. The lobbyists will make this decision for us. -- Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video | |
|  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Doesnt really matter if you are for or against. said by hitman_001 :The lobbyists will make this decision for us. Only if you remain silent and leave theirs as the only voice to heed. | |
|  manco552
join:2005-02-17 Gilbertsville, PA | Who Cares I will be canceling my sirius in a month or so and i already paid for xm so once thats up im gone IPODS for ever. | |
|   No to ESPN
@rr.com
| Why? We have been looking for a new car and it is rather disturbing to find quite a few on the lots with satellite radio already installed. I told the guy that I did not want satellite radio and how could I get a car without it. He asked what I wanted and I told him I wanted a radio with CD player and a cassette tape player. He said that was old technology. I left the lot.
I wonder if the dealers are getting paid to have new cars ordered with satellite radio by Sirius or XM sort of like AOL paying computer companies to install AOL on new computers. If so, then the FTC should shut down the whole operation. Enough is enough. | |
|  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
  insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | Monopoly? This will create competition. Right now you have sirius and you have xm. Anyone that wants in needs to fight against two different providers. If they merge, anyone with a niche in anything can easily compete against one service. | |
|  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Monopoly? said by insomniac84 :This will create competition. Right now you have sirius and you have xm. Anyone that wants in needs to fight against two different providers. If they merge, anyone with a niche in anything can easily compete against one service. AFAIK the merger will not require the new company to give up any of its frequency allocations. So how can anyone compete against the one company when they have no satellites, no frequency allocations, no hardware manufacturers willing to produce products for a non-existent service, etc.? | |
|  |  |   insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | Re: Monopoly? I stand corrected. | |
|  |  |  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL | Re: Monopoly? Thanks for your gracious response. You brought up a very important point that's critical to understanding the issue. Apparently it's one that needs clarification.  | |
|   ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA | I love my Sirius But I would trade it instantly for an OEM radio with a good iPod controller. | |
|  |  See 8 replies to this post | |
 |  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
  MrMoody Carbon Based Lifeform
join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC | Opponents I find it interesting that the only opponents to this are terrestrial broadcasters and politicians. | |
|  WirelessMajr Premium join:2005-08-03 College Place, WA
1 edit | Merger.... Due to work, I have a 1yr free sub to XM which started last November. With regards to the merger, I can only see it as a good thing.
I listen to most of the electronic channels and audio drama channels. If merging with Sirius would give me more of those channels with no overlaps in programming, then I'm all for it.
As far as the increased price, why certainly the price would, and should increase if you want to partake of ALL the content. However, to temper that, al a carte plans should be offered to where one can choose the channels they want to receive.
In regards to the anti-monopoly...since both companies spent the money to launch satellites into space, why should they be made to give up those resources upon which they spent the excess of money on to someone else?
If the market deems it, then another startup can attempt to land investors in order to create another Sat radio company and spend the money to then either launch their own satellites, or purchase launched satellites.
Sure, allowing satellite radio to merge will create a monopoly, but, lets be honest. Current trends appear to be showing that the market cannot sustain 2 competitors in Sat Radio. Terrestial radio is a monopoly. How many independent radio stations are left out there? Clear Channel owns most of the radio stations, followed by Infinity. We may not be able to count on Internet Radio as a future viable alternative as the RIAA is attempting to place a squeeze on them with exhorbant royalty fees. HD Radio? Haven't sampled it yet, however the same people who own the conventional radio stations will own HD Radio, and we'll have the same content, with the same crappy commercials. Just a higher quality of crappiness. Although, that does bring up a point that one could stand commercials if they were actually interesting, as who wants to hear a commercial for some sexual enhancement supplement when you're trying to enjoy to a decent traffic mix on your favorite station? But I digress as that is a seperate argument.
So say that the merger was squashed, and one company fell through...then we're still stuck with a monopoly and no choice in that particular market.
Oh well....if it gets too bad I'll go back to what I used to do....download radio shows of trance from overseas and listen to them on my Sansa Express. | |
|  |  Time4aNAP Premium join:2007-04-09 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Merger.... said by WirelessMajr :Terrestial radio is a monopoly. How many independent radio stations are left out there? Clear Channel owns most of the radio stations, followed by Infinity. That falls well short of a monopoly, although the sound-alike crap might lead you to believe that the whole dial is run by the same entity. The Clear Channel et. al. hegemony is a real problem that does need to be addressed. I'd say that the experiment with Chicago School economics has not served the public this time any better than a century ago. We don't need to suffer another Great Depression to figure that out!
The principles that made the Communications act of 1934 so enduring are every bit as valid today as they were back then. I say that it's time to re-establish the recognition of the public airwaves as a public trust, and regulate them accordingly. If Clear Channel, Infinity Broadcasting and friends took the capital gains from the forced divestiture of extra stations in each market, they would have a mighty large nestegg with which to break into the satellite radio business if Sirius and/or XM fail or merge. Seems like a good solution all-around.
We may not be able to count on Internet Radio as a future viable alternative as the RIAA is attempting to place a squeeze on them with exhorbant [sic] royalty fees. With only five days remaining until the deadline for payment of retroactive fees, it's time to remind your members of Congress to take action before it's too late!
HD Radio? The digital signal is piggybacked onto the analog one. HD radio opens up no new markets. It's a half measure that seems destined for mediocrity, and ultimately, failure. The FCC would be wise to auction off some of that prime UHF bandwidth for an all-digital radio broadcasting service. The 700 MHz band is more suitable for such a thing than the microwave bands currently being used.
So say that the merger was squashed, and one company fell through...then we're still stuck with a monopoly and no choice in that particular market. Not quite. The failed company would forfeit its bandwidth, making room for new competition. If no competition arises, and the lone survivor manages to become profitable, then it can be regulated as would any other monopoly. | |
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