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story category AT&T's iPhone Fine Print
Restrictions, fees and assorted annoyances
(old news - 02:31PM Monday Jul 09 2007)
tags: business · wireless · hardware · AT&T
"Why did Apple, the standard for innovative techno-cool, partner with a telecom curmudgeon that has a penchant for not caring about their customers?" asks telecom critic Bruce Kushnick. Kushnick's group, Teletruth, is unimpressed with the speed, price, restrictions, fees and other issues AT&T's EDGE network and their fine print presents.

Among annoyances listed by Teletruth (aside from the price tag, the slow network speed and latency):
Putting a new state-of-the-art piece of technology over the AT&T network may sound like a selling point, but it’s really pairing innovation with the equivalent of an expensive pair of tin cans and string.
-Bruce Kushnick
•Double billing -- you and the caller both get charged for the same call.•All uses of the network are always rounded up to the nearest kilobyte or minute.•Customers can be billed for "network errors" and "network overhead."•Customers can be billed even though the call doesn't go through, even if it is the network's fault. Customers also get charged for unsolicited messages.•Bogus fees are added to the bill, including the Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge.•$175.00 "Termination" fee is now standard.•International messages are charged additional fees, as are files over 300Kb.•Over your quota? Get gouged: 40¢ per minute and 69¢ per minute roaming offnet.•The services are not secure and can't block your phone number.•Prohibited uses include VOIP, like Skype or Vonage.•The current mobile email service doesn't support attachments.•If the customer uses the service too much, or makes "offnet" calls, they can be terminated.
The piece also points out that, as with Verizon, streaming video is against the TOS.

Meanwhile some customers are getting their first bills and a crash course in creative baby bell billing.

In contrast, Boing Boing points to the upcoming $300 OpenMoko Neo, a Linux-based phone that has no DRM, isn't locked to one provider and allows the installation of any third-party application you might desire.

Related:
  1. Freeing the iPhone From AT&T
  2. Comcast To Deploy Femtocells
  3. Chrysler To Offer In-Car Wi-Fi
  4. Sprint's Instinct Reaches Record Sales
  5. Sprint Launching Airave Service July 15
  6. Apple Vs. Rogers: The Fight That Isn't
  7. iPhone 3G Already Unlocked
  8. How To Tether The 3G iPhone
Forums » AT&T's iPhone Fine Print
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WileEC
mindtaker, macky cat, etc.

join:2002-02-07
Yonkers, NY
·Verizon FIOS

Face Reality

"Why did Apple, the standard for innovative techno-cool, partner with a telecom curmudgeon that has a penchant for not caring about their customers?"

What would make anyone think Apple cares about any of their customers beyond how much money they can soak them for either?

Please.
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supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·Skype
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Face Reality

ROFLMAO!

An iPod is not the same as an iPhone. Welcome to CellPhone world, Apple Fanboys/girls! Add 20% for taxes and another 10% for extra things. I thought the iPhone will be a smash till the bills roll in. Yeah, I was right all along. At least the service wasn't from Sprint.

Sprint:

Thanks for purchasing the new iPhone.

Two months later...

Due to the 300 calls, we find you unprofitable. Just think, you can always use your iPhone to play iSongs!
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Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:

600+ dollars for this!?

Who needs it! I got a ton of better things to spend 6 bills on .
DVOOR8

join:2001-12-24
USA
·Optimum Online

Re: 600+ dollars for this!?

said by Chris 313 See Profile :

Who needs it! I got a ton of better things to spend 6 bills on .
Exactly, Apple is the epitome of over charging. IPODs are hundreds more expensive then other MP3 players. Their service should be no different.

WALL_E

join:2003-05-28
USA

Re: 600+ dollars for this!?

Hundreds of what? Certainly not dollars. How can a $249 mp3/video player cost "hundreds" more than other devices? (assuming you mean dollars).

Pricing on most iPods is reasonable and in-line with the rest of the portable media device industry.
--
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The cretins cloning and feeding
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NuAlphaMan

join:2006-08-07
Bowie, MD
You need it if you want to be kewl and on the cutting edge and to hear all your friends ooh and ahh!

Chris 313
Come get some
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join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
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Re: 600+ dollars for this!?

said by NuAlphaMan See Profile :

You need it if you want to be kewl and on the cutting edge and to hear all your friends ooh and ahh!
Good thing I'm different than the rest. I'd rather make sure my bills are paid and get that Xbox 360 I've been eyeing. Besides that, I don't really have use for cell phone. And two, what would I want with a Hybrid phone that has a woefully slow network to connect to with all kinds of restrictions?
DVOOR8

join:2001-12-24
USA
LOL!! And the early adopters get hosed for $100!! $200 if they didn't complain!!

Apple really sucks.

texans20
TaxHikeMike dot org
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:

edit:
July 9th, @02:39PM

OpenMoko

I've never heard of the OpenMoko until now. Anyone have first hand experience of it? It looks very, promising. Far more promising than that stupid iPhone.

Edit: Nevermind, not out yet.

sMoKeNiNja

join:2001-09-10
Wheaton, IL
clubs:

Isn't all that pretty standard?

I'm not an apple fanboy by any means but I'm just getting tired of people ripping on the iphone.

Seems to me like people are actually reading the things that have been in the contract for every phone -- for every provider -- forever!
tenorsaw1

join:2003-07-10
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Isn't all that pretty standard?

I agree. This has been the standard for the longest time. That person needs to get a life.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Would tend to agree. In fact Verizon's EULA is technically worse and they were Apple's first choice before getting turned down.

Aren't Verizon's "unlimited" caps worse than AT&T's?
weedahoe

join:2003-09-14
Duluth, GA
·AT&T Southeast

Agreed, most of it is standard by all companies now-a-days.

Double billing. You and the caller both get charged for the same call

This one is wierd because almost everyone has the standard (or is optional) for mobile to mobile

All uses of the network are always rounded up to the nearest kilobyte or minute

Who DOESNT do this?

Customers can be billed for "network errors" and "network overhead"

Sprint and VZW I know do this. They arent going to just give you credit because they think they made a mistake and it might be thier fault. You HAVE to CALL and ASK for the credit

Customers can be billed even though the call doesn't go through, even if it is the networks' fault. Customers also get charged for unsolicited messages

everything I have every read says that your usage time starts when you hit the TALK button and ends when you hit the END button. This is nothing new. Everyone gets charged for unsolicited and solicited messages unless you are like me and have unlimited TXT and FLIX mail (Im with VZW)

Bogus fees are added to the bill including the Regulatory
Cost Recovery Charge

Again, everyone does this, Even LANDLINE companies. When I has BS DSL we only wanted the DSL line but to get it we HAD to have the landline. We use our cells for everything and didnt need the landline so we just got the basic line with NOTHING extra. That line was about 13-14 bux. BUT!! After taxes and fees and surcharges it was about 40bux. We paid more in taxes, fees and other chrages than we did for the line itself. That is rediculous.

$175.00 "Termination" fee is now standard

Hate to hurt your feeling but VZW does this also. I think Sprint used to be 150 but may have went up by now.

International messages are charged additional fees as are files over 300Kb

I know my unlimited TXT and FLIX DOESNT cover international so I obviously could exspect it to cost a bit more. DUH!!

Over your quota: get gouged: 40¢ per minute and 69¢ per minute roaming offnet.

Again, VZW does 40¢ and I cant say about thier roaming because I have free roaming, but their again, I had free roaming with Sprint also

Prohibited uses include VOIP, like Skype or Vonage.
The current mobile email service doesn't support attachments.

Well, on the VOIP and various providers, what did you really exspect? No one wants you to use thier product for OTHER than what THEY intended it to be used for. Just look at M$ and thier XBox consoles. Look at all the nice extra things you can really do with them with 3rd party software and simple mods. But granted, a 5/600 dollar phone should be able to at least send pics in its mail. Shame on them for not looking a LITTLE ahead and seeing this.

If the customer uses the service too much, or does offnet calls, they can be terminated.

Well this one truely is stupid in my opinion and I think it will bite them in the rear later on.

The piece also points out that like Verizon, streaming video is against the service TOS.

streaming video on every phone I ever had (all PDAs/PPCs) was never supported due to the mods and 3rd party software as well as unsupported reg edits.

So like was said before, all of this is pretty standard. But I certainly would NOT be one of those 'people' o go out and buy a 5/600 dollar phone, get locked into a 2 yr contract, locked into a data plan and believe all the hype of what they see on TV w/o doing my own research and really seeing what I was geting into. My PPC can so so much more than this iPhone can. Oh and guess what? It costs have the price.
RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York
·Optimum Online

Re: Isn't all that pretty standard?

said by weedahoe See Profile :

$175.00 "Termination" fee is now standard

Hate to hurt your feeling but VZW does this also. I think Sprint used to be 150 but may have went up by now.
Small correction - VZW prorates the termination fee according to how many months remain in your contract.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Isn't all that pretty standard?

That may vary by state, if I'm not mistaken
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baileysl

join:2000-11-06
Hopewell, VA

said by RickNY See Profile :

said by weedahoe See Profile :

$175.00 "Termination" fee is now standard

Small correction - VZW prorates the termination fee according to how many months remain in your contract.


Sprint does the same thing.
viper83

join:2004-04-07
Elmhurst, NY

correction,

Cingular also prorate there termination fee also. I believe they were the first one to do this. I have been a Cingular Customer since since '01.And each month you on the contract they deduction of $10 dollars. Cingular (at&t) hater get a life.

BellBoy
It's pronounced
Premium
join:2001-02-20
Los Angeles, CA
clubs:
·Pacific Bell - SBC

You forgot a biggie that shows that this guy doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and obviously hasn't even used or owned the product he's slamming.
quote:
The current mobile email service doesn't support attachments.
The iPhone DOES support attachments (various graphic formats and DOC and XLS as read only).
--
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

why is there an ETF?

i understand the termination fees when you get that semi free phone(always figured the ETF was to cover the cost of the phone) but i imagine that iPhone buyers are paying the full retail value.
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: why is there an ETF?

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

i understand the termination fees when you get that semi free phone(always figured the ETF was to cover the cost of the phone) but i imagine that iPhone buyers are paying the full retail value.
Well it *is* cingular(ATTs) network
theres money in them thar' ETFs!
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
·AT&T Southwest

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

i understand the termination fees when you get that semi free phone(always figured the ETF was to cover the cost of the phone) but i imagine that iPhone buyers are paying the full retail value.
The ETF covers part of the lost revenue from the broken CONTRACT between AT&T and the customer. The main difference in most cases is the length of the contract and the price of the phone...Cheap(er) or free phone, 2 year contract vs. pay full price for the phone and no contract.
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

ahh so really not much different then when banks have early closure fees on a big loan to recover lost money that would have been gained in interest if the loan was allowed to run in full.
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:

don't mess with the deathstar...


this is horrible AND hilarious! AT&T is breaking ground on new fees!

T1 Rocky

join:2002-11-15
Dallas, TX
·Time Warner Telecom
·ygnitionnet

Re: don't mess with the deathstar...

I agree. It seems like a really bad move for Apple to party with AT&T. Apple has always been in my mind thinking outside the box. Allowing people to be creative and not have to conform with inferior MS software. AT&T on the other hand has been spent all of their profits towards lobbyists over the last 10 years to maintain their monopoly (and not improve service.)
I think this is really bad for Apple's image.

BTW, has anyone noticed that AT&T/SBC's stock has not gone up in the last 10 years? However they have spent BILLIONS on lobbyist that give us such great products as forced bundling and exclusive rights to networks that tax payers funded!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Wrong

quote:
Putting a new state-of-the-art piece of technology over the AT&T network
Bruce really thinks that the iPhone is "a new state-of-the-art piece of technology?"
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exocet_cm
Signal 26's Rock
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join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
clubs:
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·Suddenlink
·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Wrong

said by pnh102 See Profile :

quote:
Putting a new state-of-the-art piece of technology over the AT&T network
Bruce really thinks that the iPhone is "a new state-of-the-art piece of technology?"
Wait, so people are actually TALKING to somebody on the other end of those "Celluar Telephone" things? HOLY CRAP!
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Joseph327

join:2006-02-03
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast
·Windstream
·AT&T Southeast

Apple Products = $$$$.$$

and AT&T as the sole ISP provider.
I don't see why anyone would want one.
Big waste of money. Wonder how many they
sold to the US Government

(No longer do business with AT&T)

Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv

Time out ?..

The iPhone is out, it's major disappointment to all except the i_____ Koolaid folks. Can we move on ?.. It's their latest toy, let them enjoy it. Heaven knows they paid enough for it.
--
If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well.

N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Time out ?..

said by Mactron See Profile :

The iPhone is out, it's major disappointment to all except the i_____ Koolaid folks. Can we move on ?.. It's their latest toy, let them enjoy it. Heaven knows they paid enough for it.
I'm no iPhone fan, but come on. They've sold half a million of them in less than 2 weeks.

»blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1967

Hardly a disappointment.

Cnet.com gives it an "8 out of 10", rated "excellent"

Engaget.com gives it a slightly less glowing review, with such quotes as;

"We're just going to come out and say it: the iPhone has the most beautiful industrial design of any cellphone we've ever seen"

"The iPhone features the most attractive display we've ever seen on a portable device of this size, by far and bar none."

Now, considering Apple sold a half million of these things in the past 2 weeks bringing them over $2 billion dollars in sales and an estimated $1.5 billion in profits well, I would call that a successful product launch.

Let's just call it what it is. Lots of people were hoping this thing would be a total flop from go, and it wasn't. For all practical purposes, the thing sold out, and Apple made billions on it. Now the people who have been waiting for Apple to fall flat on their face are in full blown sour grape mode.

I've never even seen an iPhone, I don't want one. I'm sick of seeing the commercials, I'm sick of hearing the hype. But the "fan boys" the anti apple camp claim to hate are just spurred on by folks saying the thing sucks, or it's a failure, or everyone is disappointed with it, or whatever.

Clearly, it's not a disappointment (plenty of glowing reviews), it's not a failure (billions in sales and profits) and Apple apparently has another hit on their hands.

Me, I don't want one....
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truocchio

join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL

Re: Time out ?..

Totally agree.

I was expecting it to sell well but not expecting it to work well. My experience proved me wrong. I am no apple fanboy but WOW, they have an amazingly easy to use and effective piece of technology. Somehow even youtube videos loaded quickly!?

Apple has never been successful because of their hardware specs. They are successful because of the INTERFACE.

The Ipod has a worse memory to price ratio than any other MP3 player, yet has outsold all the others combined. Why...the INTERFACE is easy to use and understand.

My T-mobile Dash can do almost anything the Iphone can do and a bunch more that I don't often utilize. For the things I do most often the Iphone has the best interface I have seen on a phone to date. I have had BBerries, Treo, the Samsumg big ass phone and the Iphone has blown me away with its simplicity and user friendliness.

The average user doesnt need open source, exchange integration, VOIP, VPN, flash, etc. They DO need an easy to use phone with google maps, music, an awesome screen, good speakers and a sleek design. The Iphone is all of those and then some.

My advice is to those hating on it is to actually try the IPhone. You will realize that the Iphone interface is the next step in how we will interact with mobile and at home/office web and computer applications IMHO.

Bravo Apple...
(from PC fanboy)

WileEC
mindtaker, macky cat, etc.

join:2002-02-07
Yonkers, NY
·Verizon FIOS


edit:
July 9th, @04:46PM

said by N3OGH See Profile :

I'm no iPhone fan, but come on. They've sold half a million of them in less than 2 weeks.
So what if they sold half a million+ of them so far?

I believe most people tend to make decisions that can hardly be called "smart," "thoughtful" or even "reasonable," and are easily susceptible to the latest trend or advertising. That's why SPAM works, after all, among other things. Seen an actual GOOD movie lately? Why not? Because they don't have to be good to make money. Why does anyone care about what Paris Hilton is doing or Britney Spears, etc? I guess somebody does otherwise the networks wouldn't be putting them on the air like we were all hanging on their every move. Just who is watching them? Me? Not a chance. But a lot of people are, apparently. Who are they? And why don't they have real lives and productive interests?

At least half a million of "these people" have 500~600+ bucks burning a hole in their pocket for the latest Apple-branded sex-substitution device.

BFD. What does that prove?

Did you see photos of some of the lines?

How many of those people on line work at McDonald's?

How many of those people on line were/still are/always will be virgins?

How many are going to use their new iPhone to catch up on what Paris Hilton is doing while on their way to work at McDonald's?

All you can prove is that Apple is savvy at marketing pretty looking crap made in China by underpaid, sweat shop workers that can barely feed their families let alone share in the profits Apple is raking in off their labor, to geeks and easily influenced sheep that may or may not be able to afford the device. I repeat... BFD.
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jsimmons
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-24
Falls Church, VA
·Cox HSI

Must be the new math...

Lets see. At $599 (say $600) for the 8 Gig phone, and assuming 500,000 people bought that model (not all did, though), thats $300 Mil in sales... Not $2 Billion.

Some sources say the iphone costs Apple about $200 to manufacture. So assuming thats so, profit is $400 x .5 Mil = $200 Mil... not 1.5 Billion.

Big difference. The only way Apple could come close to those kind of numbers is if AT&T gives Apple a large % of the 2-year contract everyone must buy. Even so... at $80 / month (middle of the road plan) 500K times $80 times 24 months is only another $960 Million. Big bucks.... but not Billions.

BTW...
I don't want one either.
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Time out ?..

Hey, I'll be the first one to say I probably miscounted the zeros. If I could do math that well, I would be an electrical engineer like I wanted to be, and not "society's garbage man". So I will acknowledge a valid point on your part. I suck at math.

How a bout this. Apple sold a shitlaod of cell phones and is making a lot of money off them....

WileEC: It's not just the FRY-O-Lator operators that are shelling out all that cash. The damn thing is getting rave reviews coast to coast from a lot of respected technology reporters.

Besides, you really don't make a very good argument. Citing that you think all these people are virgins working at McDonald's catching up on Paris Hilton is hardly a bullet point argument of why you think the iPhone is a failure.

Actually, is an open exposure of you being one of those "sour grapes" types.

Bottom line? It's another success for Apple. Love it or hate it, it's a successful product launch. They sold out of 'em, and that just grates on all the haters.

As others have stated. I don't want an iPhone. Too many "deal breakers" for me. I'm also not some rabid fan boy that feels as though Apple has to be defended at all costs. It's a corporation, just like any other corporation. Their job is to create demand, produce product, and make a profit.

I would say they are a resounding success on all those fronts, and it grates on the haters. There are many folks that wanted this device to be a failure, and it isn't.

Call all those people buying iPhones McDonald's working Paris Hilton following virgins, and I don't think Steve Jobs is going to care.

Their money spends just as well as the next persons, and I'm sure Bill Gates would LOVE to have a slice of that pie...
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WileEC
mindtaker, macky cat, etc.

join:2002-02-07
Yonkers, NY
·Verizon FIOS


edit:
July 9th, @09:07PM

Re: Time out ?..

said by N3OGH See Profile :

It's not just the FRY-O-Lator operators that are shelling out all that cash. The damn thing is getting rave reviews coast to coast from a lot of respected technology reporters.
A lot of those "technology reporters" happen to be Mac owners. Even if that wasn't true, the reporters were "furnished" with the phone and the service... and most definitely, their publications accept big ad dollars from same Apple and its EXTREMELY unlikely they would outright pan the product based on the last point alone. PLUS a lot of the initial raving reviews lacked substance and mention of ANY negative points thus revealing their agenda, or ignorance of how the phone will actually work for them from day to day based on a one week ownership experience. More and more negative tid bits are revealed every day and the thing isn't even two weeks old.

said by N3OGH See Profile :

Besides, you really don't make a very good argument. Citing that you think all these people are virgins working at McDonald's catching up on Paris Hilton is hardly a bullet point argument of why you think the iPhone is a failure.
I never said it was a failure... I said the people who shell out 600 bucks for a cell phone are idiots.

said by N3OGH See Profile :

Actually, is an open exposure of you being one of those "sour grapes" types.
Sour grapes? How is that exactly? Sour grapes would indicate that I want one but cannot afford one, etc... I assure you THAT is not the case. I find it hard to watch more people flush away good money on crap... then they'll complain they have no money when they're older and realize how stupid they were to spend good money on soon-to-be worthless toys when a "regular," free cell phone would have sufficed... IF they even figure that out at some point. They could have saved the 600 bucks and maybe invested in their future... but good ole american consumers, spend now, cry later.

said by N3OGH See Profile :

Call all those people buying iPhones McDonald's working Paris Hilton following virgins, and I don't think Steve Jobs is going to care.
BING BING BING BING BING.... EXACTLY!!! Steve Jobs is laughing all the way to the iBank!!!
Of course he doesn't care!!! Why should he? He already has an army of no brain big spenders who will keep him living high for years to come. I'm sure Stevey spends all his time showing off the iPhone to all of his friends when he pulls up in his Ferrari or Porche or whatever car he feels like driving that day. Unlike the guy who works at MickyD's who can barely pay his iPhone bill every month. Steve LOVES that guy!

Everybody here knows... Apple has become its own cult religion. Love'em or hate'em, its undeniable that a lot of looney people buy everything they produce, good or not, needed or not... none of it matters as long as its from the church of Apple. The defenders will ignore all facts, all specs, all intelligence and reason, all competition. Hell, their company of worship is one of the worst polluters in the industry on the basis of both toxic substances dumped and excessive packaging, and they have been BUSTED outright for using slave labor in China... yet the believers still come and they still support Apple as if their sh*t don't stink.

Sorry, but the iPhone is only the most over-hyped, overly anticipated, legend-before-its-time EVER produced and, unfortunately, IT SUCKS... deal with it.

Just because people buy it, doesn't mean it doesn't suck. People also bought Ford Pintos. That worked out really well.

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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL


moderated:
July 10th, @09:02AM

Re: Time out ?..


You state..

"Sorry, but the iPhone is only the most over-hyped, overly anticipated, legend-before-its-time EVER produced and, unfortunately, IT SUCKS... deal with it."

It sucks, deal with it?

First off, I don't have one, I don't care for one, so what do I have to "deal" with? I have nothing invested in the damn thing, so I have nothing to "deal" with.

Hey, I won't deny that Apple has a cult like following that a lot of people buy into, but your jealousy of that following is nothing short of uber clear. Any corporation that can amass such a following is nothing sort of the darling of Wall St. Very few companies in the history of America have succeeded in creating such devotion in their customers. It's called capitalism. Look it up.

Hate all you want (and it's clear you hate) but Apple does indeed have a "best seller" on their hands. People are buying these things in droves.

I can't help that you hate everything Apple and the iPhone, and I'm sorry you are disappointed at it's clear success. But take solace the fact that every corporation steps on it's dick sooner or later, and I'm sure you'll be here when Apple does so. Of course, You'll be happy to point out what a fuck up Apple is at that point, and I'll be here to point out how one sided you are when you do so.

As for me, I follow no manufacturer or corporation blindly. I look at individual products and do my research before I make a purchase. I understand that corporations are in business to do one thing. Make money. They want to make money off me, they had better produce a decent product before I lay my hard earned money down. That said, I won't be buying an iPhone. It doesn't meet my cost to return expectations.

There's no denying it's a successful innovative product, though. To deny so is to deny the facts.

Now, you can continue on with your irrational and inflammatory argument. I can use the free diversion.....
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Squirrelly

join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA

Re: Time out ?..

nicely said
netnerd

join:2007-04-14
Oakland, CA

said by N3OGH See Profile :

I'm no iPhone fan, but come on. They've sold half a million of them in less than 2 weeks.

but how many of those half a million are being return?
i returned my iphone due to waiting, waiting and waiting for webpages to load on EDGE!

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS

said by N3OGH See Profile :

I'm no iPhone fan, but come on. They've sold half a million of them in less than 2 weeks.

»blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=1967

Hardly a disappointment.

Cnet.com gives it an "8 out of 10", rated "excellent"

Engaget.com gives it a slightly less glowing review

...

Let's just call it what it is. Lots of people were hoping this thing would be a total flop from go, and it wasn't. For all practical purposes, the thing sold out, and Apple made billions on it. Now the people who have been waiting for Apple to fall flat on their face are in full blown sour grape mode.

I've never even seen an iPhone, I don't want one. I'm sick of seeing the commercials, I'm sick of hearing the hype. But the "fan boys" the anti apple camp claim to hate are just spurred on by folks saying the thing sucks, or it's a failure, or everyone is disappointed with it, or whatever.

Clearly, it's not a disappointment (plenty of glowing reviews), it's not a failure (billions in sales and profits) and Apple apparently has another hit on their hands.
There are easily a half-million people that would like up and buy a bag of iCrap if Apple put it out.

Apple obviously has had a very popular product with the iPod with over 50m units sold last year let alone the millions in the years before. It's not hard to imagine 1% of last year iPod owners wanting to upgrade to the iPhone so they have one less device to carry around.
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Go Colts

Telepointless

@comcast.net

You can cut and paste those complaints with ALL US carriers

Verizon may have more 3G coverage than AT&T, but they are far worse. Apple wanted to pair with Verizon initially, but backed out because Verizon wanted far more control over the iPhone than AT&T got. Verizon cripples bluetooth, (although apparently thats crippled on the iPhone anyway) they have 1GB caps, and oh yeah, they overwrite every GUI on all their phones with the shitty Verizon standard GUI.

If Apple wanted the best data network for the iPhone they should've gone with Sprint, who will also kick you for any reason they please (including calling support too often) and has just as many bogus fees as AT&T does.

You can also get phones now that have no DRM, allow you to install third-party apps, and aren't locked to any provider. They are called unlocked phones. HTC and Nokia have a bunch of em.

Jahntassa
What, I can have feathers

join:2006-04-14
Conyers, GA

Re: You can cut and paste those complaints with ALL US carriers

said by Telepointless :

Verizon cripples bluetooth, (although apparently thats crippled on the iPhone anyway) they have 1GB caps, and oh yeah, they overwrite every GUI on all their phones with the shitty Verizon standard GUI.
I think its pretty much established that it's a 5Gb cap, but I definitely agree with the rest.

pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Cleveland, OH
clubs:

Apple made the phone

Apple could have used HSDPA instead of EDGE. You can't blame AT&T for that.

-Mike

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME

How different is this from...

Anything else that's out there ?

# Double billing -- you and the caller both get charged for the same call.
Please explain this one... Calls are technically included in plans? This shouldn't be different than any other wireless.
# All uses of the network are always rounded up to the nearest kilobyte or minute.
Again... shouldn't be different than any other wireless, and why wouldn't people use 'unlimited' packages on a data device
# Customers can be billed for "network errors" and "network overhead."
Please explain ? Unlimited is what ?
# Customers can be billed even though the call doesn't go through, even if it is the network's fault. Customers also get charged for unsolicited messages.
Name a carrier that doesn't. I though iPhone doesn't do mms/sms.
# Bogus fees are added to the bill, including the Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge.
Name a telco that doesn't
# $175.00 "Termination" fee is now standard.
Name a wireless provider that doesn't
# International messages are charged additional fees, as are files over 300Kb.
Use webmail... they'll never know. Also, sms/mms always have had extra charges for International.
# Over your quota? Get gouged: 40¢ per minute and 69¢ per minute roaming offnet.
Which one... roaming or over quota? Over quota will cost you
# The services are not secure and can't block your phone number.
AT&T can block names... not sure about numbers
# Prohibited uses include VOIP, like Skype or Vonage.
Standard TOS - similar to other cellular providers
# The current mobile email service doesn't support attachments.
That bites. Time to download a better app... oh wait - that's an issue with the device. Use Webmail
# If the customer uses the service too much, or makes "offnet" calls, they can be terminated.
Yup... kinda sucks. I suspect its more of the 'offnet' than using the service too much. AT&T unfortunately blocks alpha tags so you don't know if you're roaming.
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Canada = Hollywood North

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

What is it with these 'tards

Don't want it...don't buy it.

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

Apple cares less.

What kind of company releases a phone for 6 hundred dollars that lacks all modern features of cell phones knowing their fan boys will buy them? Definitely not one that cares about it's fan. They are going to trickle out iphone features over the next few years with 20 different models, and 600 a piece for each one. The last model will include features that easily could have been in the phone today. All while the fan boys will buy every model and just be getting screwed the whole time. Apple knows how to make people pay 20 grand for a phone.
Rhanlav
Dook?

join:2005-01-28
Jacksonville, FL
·EarthLink

Aww...

I guess that means that commercial showing someone watching Pirates of the Caribbean on their iPhone and then going on the web to find a sushi restaurant would cause the user to get the boot. That's really sad. The commercial showed streaming video. What a jip.

Is it suprising though? Nah. I could have told you there was going to be fees and regulations out the ying-yang for that little technological wonder. I think I'll wait till I can get one for free.

See 6 replies to this post

TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON

sweet shit

This is why when I get a cell phone I'm getting a damn pre-paid one.

Jwobot

join:2002-08-14
Utica, MI

Scams and changes

I could of told you it's all a big scam.

With many other things that need to be change, the number one thing is you should be able to use any cell phone with the provider you are with.

tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
·VoiceEclipse

Listen to you people

Wow.. Simply amazing. Less then 2 weeks ago, the media was "hyping" up the iPhone as the hammer that was going to break "innovation in the wireless telecom world" to bits.. Now listen to the media and the rest of you. Just couldn't wait to tear it down. At what point during the "hype" did people wake up and say.. "Oh crap! It's on AT&T (Cringlurs) network (and the key word is AT&T), the company we all love to HATE for one reason or another. Once again.. a reminder. IT"S JUST A PHONE on a so-so network running behind the pack of the rest of us EVDO(A) users... Too many restrictions by apple it's self should have been a red flag but NOOOO.. Just gotta have that phone..

Vathral
Premium
join:2002-08-26
New York, NY
clubs:
·Earthlink Cable Mo..

Lucky Apple + AT&T

That there are so many hardcore fanboys out there that have an iPhone.

The iPhone is so damn limiting, don't see how so many people can like it. Unless there are major revisions to the device, its pretty crappy.

Makes a pretty cool iPod though
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F@H

wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Basically this guy is an idiot

Bruce Kushnick must be the worlds most clueless "telecom critic". His list of "points" for why the iPhone isnt good simply reflect how almost every phone on every carrier is treated. Bonus fees added to your bills??? ETF fees??? For a so called telecom critic this moron must have been living under a rock since 1995, as all of those "annoyances" have been around for years. Those Teletruth guys really crack me up!
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я люблю Денди!