wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY |
Nice!I say bring it on! This can only be good news for all of us in cities or urban environments. | |
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| DrModemTrust Your Doctor Premium Member join:2006-10-19 USA |
DrModem
Premium Member
2007-Jul-23 3:53 pm
Re: Nice!yea. i just wish they would work on putting stuff out to people who dont have anything but dialup instead of just piling 10,000 options on people in urban areas. | |
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| | | morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
morbo
Member
2007-Jul-23 4:01 pm
Re: Nice!9,997 of those are BPL variations. | |
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to DrModem
Providing service to people in the middle of nowhere is expensive. Consider moving. | |
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| | | RR ConductorRidin' the rails Premium Member join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA ARRIS SB6183 Netgear R7000
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Re: Nice!said by The Way Out:Providing service to people in the middle of nowhere is expensive. Consider moving. One day, we rural areas will cut off your water, power and food, and you will have only your fiber to eat MUHAHAHA | |
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Re: Nice!One day we in the city will use the internet to halt all orders of toilet paper from being delivered to the ruals. Good luck with your fresh leaves MUHAHAHA | |
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| | | DrModemTrust Your Doctor Premium Member join:2006-10-19 USA 2 edits |
to The Way Out
Ahem, moving is MORE expensive than running service out to nowhere probably. "Just move if you don't like it" is the most idiotic and dumb suggestion I've ever heard. I wish the rural and urban situations could be switched so I could see the urban people cry out like rural people do when they realize they have A satellite or B dialup. | |
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| | | | Ahrenl join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA |
Ahrenl
Member
2007-Jul-23 4:51 pm
Re: Nice!You do realize that 80% of the population in this country live near the urban centers right? More people think Bush is doing a good job, than live in Rural USA. Consider you may never get service unless your community builds it yourself. | |
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| | | | | Relic (banned) join:2003-09-29 |
Relic (banned)
Member
2007-Jul-23 7:31 pm
Re: Nice!said by Ahrenl:Consider you may never get service unless your community builds it yourself. Yep, exactly why I don't want a rural home. I find broadband and connectivity essential. If that's what you desire as well, move closer to the city. Simple as that. If you're a hermit or xenophobe, sucks to be you. | |
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to Ahrenl
Yup, but don't forget that 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot. | |
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| | | | | | dv41What was that? Premium Member join:2005-04-19 Goleta, CA |
dv41
Premium Member
2007-Jul-24 12:13 am
Re: Nice!hey, if it comes from the answer guy, its gotta be true right? | |
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| | | | | | KD4CVR join:2000-09-21 Gainesville, GA |
to Answer Guy
5 out of 4 people have trouble with statistics | |
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| | | | | | Ahrenl join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA |
to Answer Guy
Fortunate that this is part of the 22% goodness then... According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2000 there were 222,360,539 persons living in urban areas in the 50 states and DC -- 79 percent of the 281,421,906 total persons. Pg 13 (» www.freepress.net/docs/s ··· nger.pdf) | |
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| | | | | wierdo join:2001-02-16 Miami, FL |
to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl:You do realize that 80% of the population in this country live near the urban centers right? More people think Bush is doing a good job, than live in Rural USA. Consider you may never get service unless your community builds it yourself. And many people who say "rural," mean "not in town but still in what the census bureau considers an urbanized area." If you count those people, who also can't get good broadband options because the density isn't there, you'd probably get more than 80%. | |
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| | | | 60127178 (banned)K.U. Sweet 16 join:2001-02-15 Wichita, KS |
to DrModem
My sister and brother in law have dsl at a location in a town that probably has 50-75 people. Keep on your local telco to deliver what they should! | |
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| | | | Ulmo join:2005-09-22 Aptos, CA 1 edit |
to DrModem
said by DrModem:Ahem, moving is MORE expensive than running service out to nowhere probably. "Just move if you don't like it" is the most idiotic and dumb suggestion I've ever heard. People move to cities for better access to various items, including among other things, economies of scale, such as with utilities. However, because of high density and demand, they must pay high costs for some items such as real estate and anything that's bottlenecked or corrupted like shipping charges, etc.. There are also benefits to moving out to rural areas, or the in-between, suburban. If you live out there, you probably own your own home too, so you ought to build or hire someone to build your own network rather than bitching about someone else not doing it for you. If the situation is that your government puts impediments to you doing so yourself, then you have to support and/or create organization(s) that band together those who want Internet to go out and change the government and have the networks installed themselves (or by those they hire). You pay less for some items, like real estate, safety from low class people that have been shoved into welfare highrises in cities for historical political reasons, etc.., and you pay more for some items that lack the same economies of scale like utilities. If you are in a suburban or "high density rural" (oxymoron) area, then you have to realize exactly the type of area it is and what your responsibilities and capabilities in it are. So, it's not idiotic or rediculous. There are some things that others should do for you since you have already paid them a lot of money, but there are other things that you should do for yourself since it is your job to do so. | |
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| | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro
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to DrModem
said by DrModem:yea. i just wish they would work on putting stuff out to people who dont have anything but dialup instead of just piling 10,000 options on people in urban areas. Move if you don't like your options... It's a free country and Verizon is free to do as they please. They aren't the government, therefore you don't have a right to FIOS... It's a product they want to make MONEY off of. -Tzale | |
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| | | RR ConductorRidin' the rails Premium Member join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA ARRIS SB6183 Netgear R7000
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Re: Nice!said by Tzale:said by DrModem:yea. i just wish they would work on putting stuff out to people who dont have anything but dialup instead of just piling 10,000 options on people in urban areas. Move if you don't like your options... It's a free country and Verizon is free to do as they please. They aren't the government, therefore you don't have a right to FIOS... It's a product they want to make MONEY off of. -Tzale Geez, relax!! | |
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| | | | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2007-Jul-23 4:21 pm
Re: Nice!said by RR Conductor:said by Tzale:said by DrModem:yea. i just wish they would work on putting stuff out to people who dont have anything but dialup instead of just piling 10,000 options on people in urban areas. Move if you don't like your options... It's a free country and Verizon is free to do as they please. They aren't the government, therefore you don't have a right to FIOS... It's a product they want to make MONEY off of. -Tzale Geez, relax!! I am relaxed.... I'm just stating the same thing for the millionth time... People in rural areas think they have a right to FIOS, it will come to you when it is profitable. Otherwise, don't expect to see it anytime soon unless you put the money out yourself or you live near an affluent person who wants to spend millions rolling fiber out to your area. -Tzale | |
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| | | | | RR ConductorRidin' the rails Premium Member join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA ARRIS SB6183 Netgear R7000
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Re: Nice!I hate the us vs.them mentality, I really do. I hate it from the rural areas towards the cities, and I hate it from the cities toward the rural areas.
As one who lives in a very rural area, I have seen and experienced first hand the cities disdain for us. We get projects approved and funding set aside, only to have cities yank them away after some whining congressman in L.A or SF cries foul "how dare those hicks ask for anything, they should be happy with what they have!".
Also, as one who was born and raised in the L.A. area of SoCal, I have seen and experienced first hand the same thing from rural towards cities "let them get their own stupid water!...who would want to live in such awful, stinking places!", etc.
We are all entitled to things that better our lives, and "promote the general welfare", not just those who can afford it, or who happen to live near whatever it is everybody else wants-ie.food, water, etc. | |
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| | | | | | Ahrenl join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA |
Ahrenl
Member
2007-Jul-23 4:58 pm
Re: Nice!{Standard Response} You do realize that 80% of the population in this country live near the urban centers right? More people think Bush is doing a good job, than live in Rural USA. Consider you may never get service unless your community builds it yourself. {/Standard Response} | |
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| | | | | | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
to RR Conductor
said by RR Conductor:I hate the us vs.them mentality, I really do. I hate it from the rural areas towards the cities, and I hate it from the cities toward the rural areas. As one who lives in a very rural area, I have seen and experienced first hand the cities disdain for us. We get projects approved and funding set aside, only to have cities yank them away after some whining congressman in L.A or SF cries foul "how dare those hicks ask for anything, they should be happy with what they have!". Also, as one who was born and raised in the L.A. area of SoCal, I have seen and experienced first hand the same thing from rural towards cities "let them get their own stupid water!...who would want to live in such awful, stinking places!", etc. We are all entitled to things that better our lives, and "promote the general welfare", not just those who can afford it, or who happen to live near whatever it is everybody else wants-ie.food, water, etc. Listen, I have nothing against rural areas. The thing is that telephone service, phone service, water, electricity, etc are part of a standard of living. In 2007, broadband is NOT needed to have a high standard of living. People should not expect Verizon to spend millions of dollars to provide FIOS to 10 people in a square mile that will take thousands of years to regain the money lost on rollout there. Urban/Suburban areas are much easier to profit from since you can provide service to thousands of people for the same amount of money that it would cost to rollout to a dozen people in the sticks. Verizon is a company, not a welfare state. They are expected to turn a profit for their investors at the end of the quarter. -Tzale | |
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| | | | | | | RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY |
RARPSL
Member
2007-Jul-23 8:10 pm
Re: Nice!said by Tzale:In 2007, broadband is NOT needed to have a high standard of living. People should not expect Verizon to spend millions of dollars to provide FIOS to 10 people in a square mile that will take thousands of years to regain the money lost on rollout there. I am willing to accept that Verizon should be able to decide if they want to service an area so long as their decision to not service it PRECLUDES their spending 1 cent to prevent that area from creating their own Broadband Service. IOW: If you do not want to service it, you have NO RIGHT to fight someone who does (in court or the legislature). With the amount of Bribes and Court Costs to fight Muni Systems, the Telcos would have had money left over after just servicing the area in most cases. | |
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| | | | | | | | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2007-Jul-24 6:21 pm
Re: Nice!said by RARPSL:said by Tzale:In 2007, broadband is NOT needed to have a high standard of living. People should not expect Verizon to spend millions of dollars to provide FIOS to 10 people in a square mile that will take thousands of years to regain the money lost on rollout there. I am willing to accept that Verizon should be able to decide if they want to service an area so long as their decision to not service it PRECLUDES their spending 1 cent to prevent that area from creating their own Broadband Service. IOW: If you do not want to service it, you have NO RIGHT to fight someone who does (in court or the legislature). With the amount of Bribes and Court Costs to fight Muni Systems, the Telcos would have had money left over after just servicing the area in most cases. I agree 100% on that... | |
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| | | | | 53059959 (banned)Temp banned from BBR more then anyone join:2002-10-02 PwnZone |
to Tzale
said by RR Conductor:We are all entitled to things that better our lives, and "promote the general welfare", not just those who can afford it, or who happen to live near whatever it is everybody else wants-ie.food, water, etc. this is broadbandreports, not foodreports or waterreports. urban areas have better broadband options then rural areas; therefore on this website cities pwn rural. It is our obligation to flame j00 for suggesting otherwise. enjoy the lag, n00bs | |
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| KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to wifi4milez
fiber should go everywhere, rollout is most costly but upkeep is lower then copper. | |
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Done_PostingShoot to kill Premium Member join:2003-08-22 Toledo, OH |
How much?I skimmed the article, so I may have missed it... but did they happen to mention the cost per unit vs. standard single mode fiber?
- Tate | |
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S_engineer Premium Member join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL |
They say....'virtually no signal loss".....just what do they consider virtually? And does the amount of bends dictate how much potential virual loss?
Nice breakthrough though, maybe someday ATT with get their head out of their arse and deploy it in the midwest! | |
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Rick5 Premium Member join:2001-02-06 1 edit |
Rick5
Premium Member
2007-Jul-23 5:02 pm
Staggering..Absolutely, mind numbing.
Consider what the fortune article says about these two technologies...Fiber versus traditional copper.
"Verizon is in love with optical fiber.
It likes that the super-skinny tubes of glass are lightweight and durable. It appreciates that fiber can carry phone calls over long distances without needing lots of gear to keep the signals moving along. But what Verizon (Charts, Fortune 500) really loves is the material's ability to transmit 25 trillion bits of data per second; that's the equivalent of 400 million simultaneous phone calls, or 450 channels of high-definition television. (That's about 3.6 million times the capacity of Verizon's copper phone lines, which can deliver seven million bits per second, tops.) "
And then consider what they are talking about here is really the difference between
Verizons FIOS service..and AT&T's Uverse rollout.
AT&T shareholders should call for the resignation of any AT&T executive who still supports Uverse.
It's really..that simple.
As far as this news goes, it's really a monumental leap forward for this technology. It addresses a huge problem that has existed until now. Verizon and Corning must truly be excited beyond words to now have this resolved. Next step is to get it quickly into production..and out into the field.
Way to go Verizon..and Corning.
That old dog..at&t..could surely learn a few new tricks from you. | |
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tekmunkiTekmunki Premium Member join:2001-12-06 Lake City, FL |
tekmunki
Premium Member
2007-Jul-23 5:17 pm
Saw itI saw a demo of this at the Interop Expo this year, I was amazed. | |
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Is it really that hard?It seems to me that the main reason why it's not in MDU's is because the idea of stringing fibers through an apartment complex when PON is designed to do up to 32 customers per fiber creates some interesting challenges in terms of placement and setting of the NID. I don't think Verizon wants to have put an LGX in every basement of New York and have a closet on every floor with nothing but ONUs and battery back-ups. | |
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$$$So, how much? I doubt Verizon will pay a premium just to bend fiber cables in a building.. there is also some good news that since the price of copper is going "UP" the price of deploying fiber lines compares with COPPER will probably criss-cross in value.. now hopefully AT&T will start pushing the light to the homes. | |
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Using fiber for jump rope?If I see a verizon fios guy playing jump rope while installing fiber in my house, I would freak out. | |
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yogibear227
Anon
2007-Jul-23 6:45 pm
Corning develops new products ATT takes 30 years to deploySame way with ADSL, Bell Labs had this product 35 years ago. ATT has sat on their T1,T2,ISDN profits before ever deploying it.
Uverse only has 1 HDTV channel thatnks to ATT management NOT upgrading the copper networks to a fiber one.
Corning develops new FTTH products, it will be a DECADE before ATT puts it in a MDU situation. ATT would rather milk the copper networks until they can produce no more fruit.
Me, I am on Sprint EVDO REV A right now getting 25MPS down & 600Kps u/L faster than MOST DSL lines out here. Do you think ATT would give me this service..nope. Verizon would, Sprint would but ATT thinks I should be happy with dialup or the old Wildblue stellite which dies out in rain either at the WB uplink site or my 23,000 mile downlink from the satellite. Have to watch the weather on 2 fronts. Thanks but NO THANKS ATT... | |
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why only about verizon>Why would only verizon be happy about this? Last I checked cablevision still installs a lot of fiber. There lightpath division does alot of fiber installs.
This would help out the other cablecompanies also who would be running more fiber also. | |
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Re: why only about verizon>Yep, for some reason people seem to forget that cable companies have been running fiber as long as telcos. I have a fiber node "termination" (laser to RF) on the pole in front of my house... 40 more feet and I am fiber to the home. | |
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Re: why only about verizon>said by keyboard5684:Yep, for some reason people seem to forget that cable companies have been running fiber as long as telcos. I have a fiber node "termination" (laser to RF) on the pole in front of my house... 40 more feet and I am fiber to the home. Ah telco's have been running fiber since the late 60's early 70's when the attenuation was 30 to 40 dbm. the late 70's it went wide spread with sub 20 dbm and in 80 when Corning produced the first "sub 7" fiber link , telco exploded and started hauling fiber to every pop they could afford it. Cable started using fiber in the 90's to bring the video signal to your home. I think 88 or 89 was the first case of fiber being used for cable. Then they started in the 90's rolling it heavily. | |
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netdogg3 join:2003-02-27 Staten Island, NY |
MDUI've had Fios for months and the fiber optic wire is very flexible.From my basement the wire makes all kinds of turns so actually what is the problem installing in and MDU? | |
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Re: MDUIt is not just an electronics or fiber issue. You also need approval from the owners to recable or the owner must recable the entire complex. | |
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| cmattiesOnly the strong will survive. HAHA join:2005-03-04 Green Springs, OH |
to netdogg3
Fiber can bend to a certain point the the fiber itself ans the cladding can break or you put a crease in it. The new shit always them to bend it sharper then before. If you bend fiber in your house more likely you internet, tv, and phone wont work If it dose you will have very shitty service. | |
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OwlSaverOwlSaver Premium Member join:2005-01-30 Berwyn, PA |
OwlSaver
Premium Member
2007-Jul-24 6:52 pm
This may explain more than MDUsThus far, FiOS has been focused in areas with large lawns. The CW has been that Verizon wanted to do this to get money by serving expensive areas. However, it could be that they needed large lawns because of the limits on Fibre bends. High density areas are where FiOS will really make money. This could lead to a further explosion of FiOS. Now the limit will be installers.
Just a thought | |
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accomodation, vs price...This is a matter of accommodation vs price. If you understand the technicals, what we're really talking about is the ability to bend fiber optics a few degrees MORE than standard fiber optics with negligible signal loss (indicating there may be some). In reality what we're talking about is the ability to wire tight conduits where there may be a "V" or "L" shaped bend vs a "U" or "C" shaped bend.. Usually the necessity to run LONGER lengths to get around this problem was the answer, or modifying the conduits to fit.. again added cost.. This inherently solves a big infrastructure problem that will in the future allow many more HOMES/BUILDINGS to be wired DIRECTLY to fiber and your triple play appliances (internet,phone,tv) may be "fiber based" instead of copper based interfaces, but will take decades to fully be realized. | |
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