 bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- just like it is our right as citizens to persuade our government to encourage the companies to keep jobs here-or thru the expenditure of our monies. | |
|
 | macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY | Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- if only an an American worker could go anywhere in the world to work... seems like companies can go anywhere, but we can't.
--
"You don't subject minority rights to a referendum." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler of Canada | |
|
| | |
| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- said by wifi4milez  :said by macaholic :if only an an American worker could go anywhere in the world to work... seems like companies can go anywhere, but we can't. Huh?? As an American you can work legally in almost any country in the world. In most cases you simply need the company you will be working for to provide you paperwork so you can get a work related visa. We even have specific tax laws for money earned outside the US! Where on earth did you get the idea that American's cant work outside of the country? I think he is referring to the fact that most places people are off shoring to people work for pennies on the dollar to what an american can work for.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
| | | 
dum dum
@swbell.net
| Really? Who watches my kid while I'm in India? Is that even practical?
You people seem to think that being a migrant worker is a good thing. I don't understand your point of view at all. If this keeps up I see no reason for "workers" to even purchase a home. What would that do to the economy and the wealth balance in this country? Back to the land owners vs. the peasants.
I listen to right wing talk radio and they tell me I should retrain myself for a new job. That's funny, because the same talk show will tell me I need to spend more time with my children because the fabric of society in America is deteriorating. Which should I do?
We're all about two steps away from migrant workers. I laugh at people who think they are above being outsourced. Last year someone else said the same thing...now they are outsourced. I would think working in a hospital ER would be a secure job but its not. Now your X-rays get sent overseas where someone in India makes a life or death decision about your health. Scary eh?
Here's an old poem for you to ponder:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
Your job is next. Don't be fooled.
This is the reason why: corporate greed. AT&T/SBC/Bellsouth/Pacbell hasn't lost a dime in over 50 years. Hell, they make BILLIONS a year in PROFIT. If they were losing money I would understand why they need to trim some fat but they're not, not even close.
Another thing is that AT&T lobbied the State of Missouri for video legislation that would benefit them and now they want to cut 400+ jobs from Missouri. This is where the majority of "ASI" is located. This isn't the first time AT&T/SBC promised big things to a state and then screwed them later and will probably not be the last.
Do you know ASI has 1 manager for every 12 employees and nearly all 400 employees sit on the same floor in the same building? Most office managers have twice that many employees to mismanage..err, manage. Talk about trimming some fat...
| |
|
| | | | FAQFixer
Premium
join:2004-06-28
Powder Springs, GA
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- said by dum dum :
I listen to right wing talk radio and they tell me I should retrain myself for a new job. That's funny, because the same talk show will tell me I need to spend more time with my children because the fabric of society in America is deteriorating. Which should I do? How about being responsible. If you do not have the ability to balance work and children....DON'T HAVE CHILDREN!
said by dum dum :
We're all about two steps away from migrant workers....Your job is next. Don't be fooled. Nope.
said by dum dum :
This is the reason why: corporate greed. Nope. Again it is your lack of responsibility. Grow up! | |
|
| | | | |
dum dum
@swbell.net
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- So tell me; When do I have time to go to school, work, and PROPERLY raise my children? I've already been to college and got the degree that was so desperately sought after at the time but now, 10 years later, it is worthless. WTF did I do wrong? I followed all the rules. I need another degree but now I have a mortgage, kids, a wife, and I still need to work. When was I not responsible? I'm not saying it's impossible but is it ideal? Hell no.
I guess if I had nothing I would have nothing to lose. Ahhhh, that's it! Corporate America doesn't want me to have anything. I get it now. Thanks.
Soon I'll be able to go to work for Walmart buy all my goods from Walmart, and live in a house that Walmart so graciously provides for me. That way all my salary goes back to my employer. Sounds like days of kings and peasants. And yes I am comparing AT&T to Walmart.
There's a reason unions were formed. People who don't know history (or too cocky to acknowledge it) are doomed to repeat it. | |
|
| | | 
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| You cannot work legally anywhere except in the US and US protected territories, unless you obtain work authorization. The idea of "working legally" is without formalities.
There are many countries that will NOT issue work authorization to foreigners. Most countries will make you jump through hoops to get a work visa. One of the more difficult countries to get a work visa in for foreigners is the USA ... the limitations generally mean that unless you are absolutely gifted with PhDs up to your armpits, or you're a gifted sportsman, or an internationally recognized entertainer, your chance of working in the US in a timely manner for a prospective employer drop dramatically.
It's easier for a company to contract with an offshore support company than it is to bring those same workers to the USA. | |
|
| | | | 
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- said by sbrook :You cannot work legally anywhere except in the US and US protected territories, unless you obtain work authorization. The idea of "working legally" is without formalities. There are many countries that will NOT issue work authorization to foreigners. Most countries will make you jump through hoops to get a work visa. One of the more difficult countries to get a work visa in for foreigners is the USA ... the limitations generally mean that unless you are absolutely gifted with PhDs up to your armpits, or you're a gifted sportsman, or an internationally recognized entertainer, your chance of working in the US in a timely manner for a prospective employer drop dramatically. It's easier for a company to contract with an offshore support company than it is to bring those same workers to the USA. I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not. A US citizen is legally allowed to work in any country in the world as long as there is not a specific law/regulation/etc prohibiting it (Cuba is one such example), assuming that the host country has issued a work visa. Once a US citizen has received a work visa from the host country, he/she must then file the appropriate paperwork with the IRS because income worldwide is taxable for US citizens. Are we both saying the same thing?
»www.irs.gov/faqs/faq13-7.html
--
я люблю Денди! | |
|
| | | | |
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- Not quite, no. Whilst the US places no restrictions on Americans working in most places of the world, other countries may place restrictions on who may work in their country, and it is by no means a formality to get permission to work. For example, even though Canada is the US closest neighbour and trading partner, there are only a small fraction of Canadians to whom the US would grant a work visa.
It would be very presumptuous to assume that an American could work in any country because it's not up to the individual or to the USA. | |
|
| | | | | |
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- said by sbrook :Not quite, no. Whilst the US places no restrictions on Americans working in most places of the world, other countries may place restrictions on who may work in their country, and it is by no means a formality to get permission to work. For example, even though Canada is the US closest neighbour and trading partner, there are only a small fraction of Canadians to whom the US would grant a work visa. It would be very presumptuous to assume that an American could work in any country because it's not up to the individual or to the USA. I disagree, and suggest that we are indeed saying the same thing. My original point was the the US itself places no restrictions (other than those mentioned) on its citizens from working abroad. Again as I mentioned, the citizen does need to get a work visa from the country in question. Whether that country grants it or not has nothing to do with the US policy of allowing its citizens to work abroad.
--
я люблю Денди! | |
|
| | | | | | |
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of capitalism- You said that as an American you can work legally in any country in the world (except Cuba). Not true. If you'd said that the US gov't imposes few restrictions on you working abroad, then I'd agree, but you chose to virtually ignore your potential host country's role in the matter.
You also make it sound like a simple process to get a work visa. Again, in most countries, far from true. Try it some time and see all the red tape. | |
|
| 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of idiot Management Moves like this are signs of idiot Management....
.... Who Figure with their market position they have slave-sumers or a captive audience who will accept bad service and poor support and "Just deal with it."
It's the same mentality that views Customer Service as an "Expense" and looks for ways to "cut costs".
Well, cutting Tech support may save some money in the short run, but when P.O.ed customers dump your service and switch to the competition (assuming there is some) well, all you've done is cut your own throat.
I've found the ASI techs to be the people who actually get the problems fixed. The Indian support is a total joke.
You know, I think with my next house I'll just go all VOIP and tell AT&T to kiss my rear.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|
| |
howiehandles
@sbcglobal.net
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of idiot Management Big companies are worried about consumer loss, and I know because I used to be a Manager for SBC.
They're really only concerned with big business accounts, as there margins are better. For a company like AT&T, consumers are essentially a necessary evil. | |
|
| | |
bb1852
@pacbell.net
1 edit | Re: Moves like this are a sign of idiot Management I work for AT&T in Fresno, Ca in the engineering dept. I have to watch and listen to people all day long on the phone on personal calls, eating ALL day long, yelling across partitions, surfing the web, doing eveyrthing but what they are paid to do. And then they contract out our work to people that will work.
I see almost no work ethic any longer. You can't really blame them for shipping the work to people that will work.
I have worked in this company for a long time as nonmanagement, and it looks to me the problems we have now are lack of qualified management. | |
|
| | | |
sueMO
@Level3.net
| Re: Moves like this are a sign of idiot Management So I imagine once a year around September you are required to read & acknowledge the code of business conduct? did you ever read the last line of it? In so many words, "the company has the right to terminate anyone at anytime for any reason at their discretion."? I could name 50 right now who are as useless as the ones you describe and use 8hrs a day as an excuse for happy hour. Why don't they practice what they preach? | |
|
rolande
Certifiable
Premium,Mod
join:2002-05-24
Powell, OH
clubs: | Wow As if Tier 1 wasn't bad enough from a communication and resolution standpoint. Now let's dilute the effectiveness of the other Tiers too.  | |
|
inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| sounds like a good plan to me. If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs.
unions are defunct.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
|
| 
N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
·Cox HSI
·World Lynx
2 edits | Re: sounds like a good plan to me. said by inteller :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. You wouldn't think that was so funny if it was YOUR job being eliminated.... 
Your profile suggest you work in the petroleum industry, so you OBVIOUSLY are overpaid.... | |
|
| | claco
join:2002-09-29
Tallmadge, OH
| Re: sounds like a good plan to me. said by N10Cities :said by inteller :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. You wouldn't think that was so funny if it was YOUR job being eliminated.... Unfortunately, I agree with both. It sucks to loose you're job like this, only to have it brought back later. But I do agree that unions now cause more harm than good in most cases. Their time has come to pass imho.
--
Six of one, 1,426/2,852 dozen of the other. | |
|
| | |
bb1852
@pacbell.net | Re: sounds like a good plan to me. You are wrong. We still need unions not to protect the lazy people that do no want to work but the honest workers. Big companies are not going to hand over anything without a fight. I have worked for AT&T for 40 years and am not rich yet. | |
|
| | | | FAQFixer
Premium
join:2004-06-28
Powder Springs, GA
| Re: sounds like a good plan to me. said by bb1852 :
You are wrong. We still need unions not to protect the lazy people that do no want to work but the honest workers. Big companies are not going to hand over anything without a fight. I have worked for AT&T for 40 years and am not rich yet.
That's your fault...not your employer. | |
|
| | | | | |
| | Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
| `top pay` and `union` is an oxymoron.
Unions are completly worthless in the IT field. I grew up in Cleveland, OH where my father was UAW 486 and my mother ( and myself gasp at one point ) where UFCW 880. I know a whole lot about things like strikes, lockouts, picketing, collective bargaining. After 30 years of all out war all of those locals are dead as the companies are gone. One day my dad had to go work at a shop that was gasp `at will`. You know what? They treat him better, give him raises when he deserves it and they are actually profitable.
Why? Because their is finally a relationship of freedom of choice and mutual need. When I worked at a union shop I couldn't get a raise because the contract said so. When I went into IT my salaries were able to explode past my peers because at-will employment works.
And I promise you I make a heck of a lot more money then these `top pay` union jobs and my job is infintely more secure. | |
|
| |
inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| haha....I'm overpaid because I'm in the petroleum industry. ok sure, whatever you want to call it. it's called following the money bucko....something you obviously can't do in Barling, AR.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
|
| | | 
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: sounds like a good plan to me. I tend to agree...
You can 'chose' your career, and watch it either evolve or go and become extinct/offshore.
You can be less dependent on traditional jobs, and 'follow the money'. Where there is large investments/risk/timeline, contractors/subcontractors have always done well. Big companies are focused on their day to day industry (including cutting cost and offshoring), but will outsource for projects, and typically pay good money.
--
Canada = Hollywood North | |
|
| | | | 
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: sounds like a good plan to me. so the anti-union crowd chimes in....stupidity run amuck!
You're grandchildren will be working for Walmart or fighting illegals for sub-contract work from Comcast thanks to you're naivity!
--
Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! | |
|
| | | | |
TIMBERWOLF
@sbc.com | Re: sounds like a good plan to me. LOOK, A COMEDIAN...YOU'RE FUNNY!! I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT WOULD BE THE "IN THE BACK POCKET OF CORPORATE AMERICAN GREED" UNION'S ULTIMATE GOAL. LOOK WHO'S BEING NAIVE!!! | |
|
| | |
Malanthius
@pacbell.net
| said by inteller :haha....I'm overpaid because I'm in the petroleum industry. ok sure, whatever you want to call it. it's called following the money bucko....something you obviously can't do in Barling, AR. Funny how this guy has to resort to a personal attack about the place where someone lives when he's called out. Inteller, the industry you work for is no different than AT&t's. Both are money hungry, screw everyone if you can type companies.
You think outsourcing can't affect you? Outsourcing is destroying middle class society. I guess you missed that 20/20 special on it? Almost every sector in business uses an outsourced company to cut costs to their business. From AT&T to Hospitals. Doctors now will send your MRI to India to have someone diagnose that headache you had for weeks. Hell even the IRS outsources tax work over there. That's right! Your tax info including SS numbers in the hands of someone on the other side of the planet.
So, now what jobs are left for middle class America? And if all those jobs are gone, who will buy the gasoline you produce? Who will be able to afford AT&T's services? From a long term business standpoint it doesn't make sense. But from a get as much money you can now no matter what and who you screw point of view it makes perfect sense. Hope you have a lot of seniority where you are. Because either way you look at it your days could be numbered. | |
|
| | 
CO_Chris
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Broomfield, CO
·Comcast
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
·Comcast Digital Vo..
| said by N10Cities :said by inteller :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. You wouldn't think that was so funny if it was YOUR job being eliminated.... Your profile suggest you work in the petroleum industry, so you OBVIOUSLY are overpaid....
Ha thats funny sad but true. maybe they should send jobs like his over there as well? | |
|
| | |
inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
2 edits | Re: sounds like a good plan to me. fortunately I provide value to the company that isn't inflated by union bargaining....and believe me, if the petroleum industry could have outsourced what myself and others do, they would have done it a long time ago. You can't outsource a job that requires a person to be phyiscally present at specific location. We've already tried.
--
"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
|
| | | |
See 8 replies to this post |
|
| | dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY
·Vonage
·Insight Communicat..
| I had a "top pay" union job in the past. I left that industry when I finished my degree but the abuses by the union were just sickening.
Demanding higher and higher wages, more benefits with less money out of pocket, more off time. How are companies supposed to meet the market demand of lower prices while unions demand more and more money?
We all want $20 a month 20+ speed access but how can ATT, Verizon or any other company make that happen when unions want "top pay" in every single job category and want minimum staffing levels that are usually much higher than the task demands? I know the telco workers think that they are overworked, but the company has a right to demand "top performance" in exchange for "top pay" don't they?
Everyone needs and wants to make as much money as possible, but unions are like hogs at the slop bin. Too stupid to grasp the concept that they are too fat to begin with. | |
|
| | |
See 7 replies to this post |
|
| indy0365
join:2001-08-25
Franklin, IN | local 135 here I dont feel defunct | |
|
| |
See 22 replies to this post |
|
| 
nursemike
join:2001-10-14
Palm Bay, FL | Here's an idea! Let's outsource all of the CXO jobs to lower paid Indians! I'm sure that the money saved would more then pay for the return of the laid off workers. | |
|
| |
See 8 replies to this post |
|
| NewMariner
join:2005-06-24
| Tell me wise one. Why are Unions Defunct? They provide better benefits, better pay for the workers. Why shouldnt the workers make money? The company is. Oh wait your probably apart of the wal-mart mentality where you want everything for free.
Have you ever worked for a Union? | |
|
| |
See 8 replies to this post |
|
| viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| said by inteller :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. Another clueless post. The Unions are the last hope against 'robber baron' business owners and CEOs. | |
|
| |
See 7 replies to this post |
|
| romulusnr
join:2007-08-01
Federal Way, WA | I'm still trying to figure out why collective labor bargaining is bad, but mega-consolidation layoffs are good. One protects (some) domestic jobs, the other sends them far far away. | |
|
|
bb8232
@pacbell.net | Says you??? | |
|
| notwrth10
join:2007-03-03
1001EB
| Sounds like a good plan to me too, I hope they send your job with it. Considering how day late and U.S. dollar short you americans constantly are, it's amazing the war is still going. I would have thought you guys would have quit on your own incompetence now. After all isn't this what stopped vietnam in one way or another? | |
|
xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Here we go again Another round of offshoring/outsourcing. Sadly, this is from a company that some people will not have a choice about not using.
As for the entire Unions are defunct argument. I've seen four setups. Unions with strange rules that made no sense. Unions which took money and didn't do much. And Unions that you didn't have to join. And non-union employment.
I think modern America owes much of it's prosperity to the Union Activity of the early 20th century. Certainly our middle class and quality of life would not be nearly what it is today. However in modern America they are getting pretty bad name. Sometimes for good reason, I mean honestly why can't I carry a box from a truck to a room if I can lift it and they are all on their 1 hour mandatory lunch and I need that one box...Baltimore 2005. I can plug two poles in together and assemble a booth, it isn't hard and I'm not taking food away from anyone, especially if they are all off, again at a break. --New York 2006. Although sometimes I have to wonder how much is propaganda from companies that don't want to allow unionization or want to get rid of their Unions. I did watch as a nurses union negotiated a better standard of employee health care at the hospital my fathers wife worked at a few years back.
All that aside, the one thing that bothers me today is the complete lack of employee protection. In Virginia we are what is called a right to work state. I have a right to work, and the employer has a right to dismiss me without listed cause at any time. That makes for a lovely feeling of security. So, say I worked for some big heartless corporation. Who is looking out for me? Who is going to address the fact that every year benefits get cut, pay only goes up 3% while the cost of living is rising at 4% or 5%, the fact that it takes two incomes now to just get by where my of my parents was able to actually stay home and we still had a comfortable life. HR? I've not yet found an effective HR employee who was working for the employee. That is not to say I've not seen some good HR people. Management? Right, I won't believe that one again. Definitely not the stock holders. So who? We have a need for Unions, maybe not the same organizations that existed in '50's, but we need them.
Companies are having record years, but employee pay hasn't really risen in how many? Every week or so another major business outsources, lays off, or closes an office/plant/factory/shop and puts more people out on the street to compete for that 1 job still available.
--
Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
|
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Too bad Most of those guys where great to talk to, except Alim. | |
|
ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | does this mean... no more English speaking tier 2 and above techs from America? | |
|
|
kwayzcat
join:2002-10-22
Chicago, IL | Covad has been doing this for a year already Covad already has techs in India doing this for some time now. | |
|
USAFirst
@bellsouth.net | my idea My idea to combat outsourcing is pretty simple. If you outsource even a single job, then you lose all your tax breaks. If the CEOs don't like that, they can move to India along with the outsourced jobs. | |
|
|
sbc retired
@ameritech.net
 from:
KrK
| Re: my idea said by USAFirst :
My idea to combat outsourcing is pretty simple. If you outsource even a single job, then you lose all your tax breaks. If the CEOs don't like that, they can move to India along with the outsourced jobs.
Actually this is a pretty fair idea. Companies that outsource should loose tax breaks and maybe pay penalties to IRS, or pay Social security taxes in spite of the wages going overseas.
Our economy is dependent on a good % of Americans being able to make a living wage and buying products from factories in USA producing goods employing American workers. Kind of a Merry go Round, with everybody getting a piece of the action. Someday as soon as too many workers are no longer buying because their jobs went overseas, our economy will grind to a halt. | |
|
| thisisfutile
join:2006-03-11
Newcomerstown, OH
| my idea Like communism and unions, your idea sounds good on paper. How do you suppose to stop the global economy? All you'll do is stifle our growth in that market be disallowing business to participate. The global market is one which we'll do quite well in as we've proven in our meager 231 years as a country. Free markets have made us the fastest growing and most powerful nation the world has ever seen and a global economy will be our playground. Now, if we could just get rid of these silly unions and other atrocities that keep business from thriving.
My thought: If you can't afford a Lamborghini, then your opinion about one isn't qualified. How much more unqualified is your opinion about business if you yourself don't own one? | |
|
|
howiehandles
@sbcglobal.net
| Re: my idea Unfortunately, that is no more than lipservice. The whole system is corrupt, from the top (D.C.) on down. Big business are in bed with the government to screw over the common person, and unless the masses wake up to stand up for themselves, nothing will change.
Look at the pharmaceutical industry, or better yet don't. You'd be sickened at what you would find. But thats a topic for another thread. | |
|
romulusnr
join:2007-08-01
Federal Way, WA
| From ILEC to OLEC? ...Offshore Local Exchange Carrier?
So the customer-facing reps will be handled by a middle-player who has no physical access to the lines and has to go through a convoluted, delayed, hand-off communication chain in order to escalate.
That doesn't sound familiar, not at all.
(Well I guess ASI was already sort of a CLEC, but still -- isn't this precisely what going with the ILEC is supposed to avoid?) | |
|
ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA | One that we'll never see... Will we ever see a CEO job outsourced to India? I'm sure there must be a company in India that wants to screw the rich Americans too. | |
|
logic1977
Premium
join:2001-02-11
Tucker, GA
| hold on a minute Did anyone take the time to consider that its possible that this employee is bitter and mistaken?
If his "top-paying" job were so difficult, they wouldn't be able to outsource it.
I'm all for keeping jobs onshore, buton the other hand why keep work in one of your "top-paying" centers if the work doesn't need to be there.
Corporations are run for shareholders. If you want to keep them happy you have to increase revenues and decrease cost, if you can take a simple task and move it from a high cost resource to a low cost resource why wouldn't you?
I don't know about you, but all the union people I know if the phone company who have been arounf a while will tell you that if you dont want to get laid off you need to see when the writing's on the wall, and when you do a job thats can be outsourced you have to realize it will be outsourced and bid out to something else. | |
|
| redneck46
Premium
join:2007-08-11
Irving, TX
| Re: hold on a minute I can agree to some degree with this however, the company is making billions of dollars in profits alone yearly according to annual reports. Why should we be allowed to sacrifice our jobs just because we got good at it and they want to outsource to a lower cost just to re-train and allow the customers to pay the price while with hours on the phone to tech support just so they can get cheaper wages? | |
|
flyingjoey
join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Verizon FIOS
| Offshoring Off-shoring only forces the current workforce to become more competitive, which is good up to a certain expend, but what really F'en kills me is the H1 BS that companies are pulling.
How can you bring someone from another country and have that person directly take over the job of an American. Yes there are a lot of tech jobs available. But now a days who are the ones being favored for those positions; H1s.
I thought the whole premise behind H1s were for people to come in, help out and go back home. They have now created Temp agencies which exclusively bring H1s, and then “rent” those people out to American companies thus taking over our jobs.
Apparently the government isn’t paying attention, or maybe lobbyists have done their job well, but all I know is that I shouldn’t have to feel like I don’t belong when I go to work in my own country.
I'm sure India is a great country, but I doubt I can go to work there and survive with what they pay. | |
|
rizzo
@sbcglobal.net | Contact the CEO
Randall Stephenson, AT&T CEO
rs2982@att.com (direct)
randall.stephenson@att.com | |
|
baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA
·Future Nine Corpor..
| Offshore ASI techs While, ATT's services have generally been very reliable for me, they are not the only provider available to me and if they think for a minute that I will put up with offshore techs who either lack the knowledge or ability to promptly correct problems I may be having, they are sadly mistaken.
While ATT may send their tech work offshore, I can and will bring it back by switching to an ISP with local techs. In fact, if SONIC would bond two dynamic dsl lines and only charge me a small additional fee for the bonding, say something in the neighborhood of an extra $10/mo over the normal cost of two dynamic dsl lines, I would switch now. | |
|
Former ASI Tech
@lanterman.org |  NOT COOL
| |
|
Yet another
@swbell.net
| Hard to resist commenting on this, eh? A couple of things:
The view that someone's holding a gun to one's head and forcing them to do a job is interesting. If your job doesn't suit you, walk. Collective bargaining tends to put "workers" and "management" in an irreconcilable adversarial position. This is inevitable, on an individual basis, and normally leads to the individual being dismissed or leaving. In groups it trends everything to the lowest common denominator -- every worker becomes a button-pushing monkey, and therefore easier to outsource.
It also helps when the executives have little real skill at running large operations. Let's face it -- the major knowledge and skill set that takes you to the top is political and not operational, technological or anything else. Don't get me wrong: AT&T execs are definitely smart, skilled, driven individuals, but their focus is not on creating the best products (which includes the best service) for their customers.
Oh, and consider the deals between SBC/AT&T and the CWA. Political lobbying makes for a true match between execs and union bosses. Plenty of scum to go around.
Regardless of whether AT&T is outsourcing jobs (more likely they're simply going to attempt to eliminate them as they gut the former SBC data services), the execs are missing the point completely in their focus on perceived (bottom-line) cost. I can't help but think that offering a customer service experience that rates a bit higher than a swim in the sewer or a romantic encounter with an angry beehive would benefit the company, even if it cost a bit more. Part of the problem is that these execs, having moved up in a company where workers are perceived to be button-pushing monkeys (regardless of fault), can't seem to shake the concept. I'll bet the Indian support folks like the scripts as much as the rest of us, but as a group tend to suck it down a bit better than Americans would (in my experience they just don't take it as personally as we do).
It'll be interesting to see if any of the large telecom providers pull their heads out, or if the continuing dissolution is inevitable. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if AT&T management got an operational clue and revised their product lines and processes to actually sell a superior product, and as part of this, really tried to meet the unions head-on and revise the "bargained-for" positions (i.e. make button-pushing *people* out of 'em).
To be clear: AT&T products are competitive. Unfortunately for us, the competition sucks, too. | |
|
nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ
| yay....better returns on investments you guys are all nuts....ask any economist....outsourcing is good for you. you mihgt not realize this or might even oppose this but outsourcing has many benefits. look at walmart revolutionizing america. The same goods that people used to buy in China is now available to you. They would even put in some lead to sweeten the deal.
Now take a deep beath...and repeat after me....they can outsource my job, take my freedom but the terrorists will never win" now you should feel better...if not....tough shit | |
|
Old_Grouch
Don't just sit there silly DO something
Premium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| Turn the pretty ball and look from the other side For a different perspective:
Outsourcing (within or outside the country) ain't rocket science-- it's easy-- SBCatt has done it and seen the foul aroma that can result. Oursourcing intelligently - - - now that's art.
The jobs SBC promised to bring back into the fold were jobs that dealt directly with customers who were sensitive to harsh accents and people following a seemingly strict outline or solution card.
They gave customer interaction with people who were stressed because of trouble to people who could not interact.
SBC took heat for the stoopid decision and found itself in a contract (union) negotiation scenario where it could kill two birds with one decision.
Bring the jobs back takes care of customer concerns/demands and bring the jobs back and give the union(s) a chance at them gives the bargaining sessions credibility. The union looks mighty and the company looks responsive. Kinda boring but it got lots of press.
Now, SBCatt still needs to cut costs. Labor is still the largest single cost they have. They have cut out a piece of work that can be fairly-well defined (test this get this result go to the next box).
They seem to have excluded much of the customer interaction. And, they have the outsource agents take interim/initial action then refer it to another department for resolution.
If they had allowed rote work to rise to the level of top craft pay...shame on them and the craft people who should have been bored. Send that crap away and spend the high-paid (and qualified) resources on more urgent matters like figuring out how the hell to provision that silly U-wish service in less than eight hours.
Putting high-paid resources on high-priority, high-visibility work ain't so stoopid. Cutting out rote, memorization-based work and sending it to someone for pennies on the dollar ain't stoopid.
The union gets on its soap box and supports the company's efforts to get into the telly-over-tele business. They should realize the company ain't gonna do that and have a net growth in represented labor. The union wants to get the company into new business while keeping all the old, represented work and having representation for the new work. It ain't gonna happen. AT&T ain't GM.
They have got to flush away some older, easy to execute junk to free the resources to do the new stuff. When it gets so routine that you can write a program or ship it to india...do it.
That's all - who's got my meds?
--
At Team Discovery we know how to get more outta that danged 'puter of yours! | |
|
| itsonlydsl
join:2005-01-08
San Francisco, CA
| Re: Turn the pretty ball and look from the other side that was, imo, a good look from the other side. this article "out with outsourcing" adds another perspective.
»nwitimes.com/articles/2007/08/12···2318.txt
its amazing how the jobs went and now are coming back but at a much lower rate of pay. i think that that is what is happening here as well. dsl is a product that the company is going to grandfather and u-verse is the new kid in town. if they're paying 30k/year ($15/hr) for u-verse support then they're going to get rid of the dsl support they have for 60k/year and why not...it seems the company got its cake and ate it too on this one. the customers are happy that they're talking to support with the "flat, middle-American" accents and the unions are slapping themselves on the back for getting the jobs "insourced." its only the few who are affected who are smelling a rat but perhaps its time for them to move on anyway. as you say, if they're so smart then they must be bored out of their minds anyway. | |
|
g4brokemke
join:2003-04-20
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| if AT&T is offshoring ASI Tier 2.... Then why did they (AT&T) just hire a bunch of my tech school friends here in Milwaukee for Tier 2 Tech Support Reps?
C'mon guys, stop spreading the FUD. 
And as a person who used to work for a company that
terminates you "at-will", I would never go back to
that kind of working relationship. One day you could
be working and the next day, you're out of a job, blammo.
No severance package either, and escorted out the door.
I've seen people who worked at my former employer for years get kicked out the door, without question because they were
told they are no longer part of their "strategic plan".
In other words, it was a political execution in the company to bring in their own candidate to work in their regime.
Unions PROTECT jobs, period. You may have your own ideas about them, but look at what union labor does for this country. Those corporate towers? They aren't built by ironwokers that are not unionized. Your aerospace workers, and machinists? You wouldn't get off the ground with out them being union. Your heating and air conditioning for large scale buildings? They would not be done without your local Steamfitters union putting them out there.
These are just exampled, friends.
Union labor builds America. Stop whining. | |
|
| PAB
join:2007-07-27
Woodridge, IL
| Re: if AT&T is offshoring ASI Tier 2.... Well said. I can't believe some of the crap I read here. All this union members being lazy and over paid sounds like it was written by four year olds. Unions are far from perfect, but your examples are right on. I've been a union member over 30 years and am proud of it. | |
|
| |
Unionsrjoke
@cox.net
| Re: if AT&T is offshoring ASI Tier 2.... ... I left a not so perfect job to go to Costco which is heavily unionized so much you need to pay over 220.00 to 'join' ontop of the monthly 22.00 fee. For as Unionized as they claim I was letgo on the 29th day of employement 2wks after I had my first deduction for Union wages. When I asked why they took the money if your not union till after 90days of employment they were "um its after 30 days of employment not 90". Then they told me they've heard of costco firing people before they gain the Union protection and they would refund me the 46.00 and Im still waiting for my money back they promised me. They could take the money 'before' they can protect but they take forever to give it back.
Sorry I've had constant bad experiences with Union help. Ever since 6yrs with UCFW that did nothing to help the workers to 'the teamsters' that are Costco's Union. Then again I heard "james hoffa" is not someone to trust as any Union head... | |
|
| | | g4brokemke
join:2003-04-20
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: if AT&T is offshoring ASI Tier 2.... If you were terminated before your probationary period was
up at Costco, then they were in their right to do so.
Most retail employers only give you a certain period of time to get up to speed to learn and you better learn quickly, otherwise you are out of there.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the union. Maybe you could go back to that dream job you left before you started working @ Costoo?? Just a thought. | |
|
| |
bb1852
@pacbell.net
| I have been a union member longer than you have. And have seen them protect workers that work all day trying to get out of work. Including the Stewards themselves. Really sad.
I have a steward that sits across from me. She conducts her church business all day long and then prints it on the printer with company paper. I have to listen to her singing her gospel songs to her church members on the phone also all day long.
These people are our of control, take my word for it.
I am in the engineering dept in Clovis, Ca | |
|
| | | g4brokemke
join:2003-04-20
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: if AT&T is offshoring ASI Tier 2.... Sorry that you have to work with such a shiftless, lazy co-worker then. Doesn't your employer have rules about doing personal business while on the job? And about her gospel singing, you could ask her politely to stop.
And if she is your union steward, she should know better to conduct church business while on the company's dime. She is setting a bad example for herself and that tells others "Hey, its okay to screw off on the company's time...". | |
|
|
|
|
AT&T Offshoring ASI Techs?
they are paying employees to leave