 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| carrot and stick... Take the fines and put them in escrow for FIOS builds for the neglected communities. Sort of a must deploy penalty...
FIOS doesn't have nearly the required number of network resources required of copper. Can't get copper service? Get FIOS instead. | |
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 | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
edit:
October 30th, @03:45PM
| Re: carrot and stick... said by tmc8080  :Take the fines and put them in escrow for FIOS builds for the neglected communities. Sort of a must deploy penalty... FIOS doesn't have nearly the required number of network resources required of copper. Can't get copper service? Get FIOS instead. Even better would be to use the money from the fines for municipal Fiber To The Home build-outs. The fines should be high enough to fund such endeavors. Then the fined telcos would get to really compete over fiber they don't own. | |
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wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA | no no a perfect non regulated free form economy works best Waiting for the usual suspects to claim that there is no need to regulate these folks that the "free market" will fix everything... Yeah right. Verizon and it's cherry picking FIOS ways need to be kept on a very short leash. | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: no no a perfect non regulated free form economy works best Umm, the telcos' copper plants are already regulated. How's that working out? | |
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| lth2h
join:2005-01-01
Glen Allen, VA | There is no free market when it comes to telephone service. Verizon has a government granted monopoly. It's time that we actually try the free market get some competition in phone service. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| Re: no no a perfect non regulated free form economy works best said by lth2h : It's time that we actually try the free market get some competition in phone service. Forced competition was the premise behind the tcom act of 96. All that proved to be was a circle-jerk just to end up with competing monopolies.
This topic is about how to address the obligations telcos have to their customers. The free market talk does nothing for the thousands of people that are s*** on because the fine is cheaper that the fix!
Solution, fine them more than the stockholders are willing to give, hold up licenses for future build-outs, and sue if necessary.
Because on the basic level, shouldn't TELEPHONE SERVICE be apart of a TELCOs companies obligation? | |
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jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD | 2 weeks. My copper line went out earlier this year and it took Verizon 2 weeks to fix it.
Imagine, two weeks without phone service. It was later revealed it was a problem in the area but it shouldn't take two weeks to fix. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | More Reasons to Switch If these kinds of outages are happening in places where one can readily port their service to cell phones or VOIP, then why not do that and quit waiting for Verizon to fix its copper?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs:
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by pnh102 :If these kinds of outages are happening in places where one can readily port their service to cell phones or VOIP, then why not do that and quit waiting for Verizon to fix its copper? Because Verizon in these areas are bound to meet minimum repair times. THis is nothing new to them and has been in place for decades.
I see again you are a corporate shill and don't think these people need to be held responsible for anything. Just change providers is the solution.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by ropeguru :I see again you are a corporate shill and don't think these people need to be held responsible for anything. Just change providers is the solution. How is changing providers from Verizon to someone else not holding them accountable?
Do you like to pay for services which are not delivered?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by pnh102 :If these kinds of outages are happening in places where one can readily port their service to cell phones or VOIP, then why not do that and quit waiting for Verizon to fix its copper? Copper still falls under the Public Service Commission. Verizon gets a minimum price for its copper and they are required to meet a minimum repair time. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by moonpuppy :Copper still falls under the Public Service Commission. Verizon gets a minimum price for its copper and they are required to meet a minimum repair time. If I was a Verizon landline customer who was experiencing trouble, that would mean absolutely nothing to me because clearly, the powers-that-be are not holding Verizon accountable.
If VOIP or cellular service can offer a reasonable substitute for the bad existing service I would be getting from Verizon, and I needed the service badly enough, then switching would be the proper course of action.
Otherwise, I'd be pissing away my money.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by pnh102 :If I was a Verizon landline customer who was experiencing trouble, that would mean absolutely nothing to me because clearly, the powers-that-be are not holding Verizon accountable. That's because Verizon would rather pay fines than fix the problem. Make the fines higher and watch how fast Verizon reacts.
said by pnh102 :If VOIP or cellular service can offer a reasonable substitute for the bad existing service I would be getting from Verizon, and I needed the service badly enough, then switching would be the proper course of action. Otherwise, I'd be pissing away my money. And if there is no VOIP or reliable cell service in the area, what do you do?
Again, Verizon agreed to these terms decades ago, they need to live up to their agreement. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by moonpuppy :Make the fines higher and watch how fast Verizon reacts. Agreed.
said by moonpuppy :And if there is no VOIP or reliable cell service in the area, what do you do? Unfortunately there will always be people who are stuck in such a situation. They're pretty much screwed until they get another choice in providers. However, that doesn't mean that people who do have access to competing providers shouldn't take it upon themselves to hold Verizon accountable by switching.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by Tzale :Because some people want service through landline, and shouldn't have to be shitted on just because they want to keep their copper. Not everyone knows or wants to port to VOIP or a Cell Phone. Life just isn't fair sometimes.
If phone service is that important to someone, then they will take the time to learn about alternate means of getting it if they believe that Verizon's service is no good.
And it isn't "their" copper. The copper belongs to Verizon.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul - No Bailout Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by pnh102 :said by Tzale :Because some people want service through landline, and shouldn't have to be shitted on just because they want to keep their copper. Not everyone knows or wants to port to VOIP or a Cell Phone. Life just isn't fair sometimes. If phone service is that important to someone, then they will take the time to learn about alternate means of getting it if they believe that Verizon's service is no good. And it isn't "their" copper. The copper belongs to Verizon. You're wrong.... Stop kissing Verizon's ass. That copper might be owned by Verizon, but it is their duty under American law that they provide reliable service since that is the ONLY copper on the poles that allows telephone service via POTS.
-Tzale | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by Tzale :Stop kissing Verizon's ass. You're talking to someone who hasn't purchased any sort of service from Verizon since 2003.
said by Tzale : That copper might be owned by Verizon, but it is their duty under American law that they provide reliable service since that is the ONLY copper on the poles that allows telephone service via POTS. But, they're not...
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Tzale
Ron Paul - No Bailout Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by pnh102 :said by Tzale :Stop kissing Verizon's ass. You're talking to someone who hasn't purchased any sort of service from Verizon since 2003. said by Tzale : That copper might be owned by Verizon, but it is their duty under American law that they provide reliable service since that is the ONLY copper on the poles that allows telephone service via POTS. But, they're not... The problem isn't that you're a Verizon fanboi, but rather that you're sticking up for big business like they need it.
The truth is that Verizon and YOU are WRONG here.
-Tzale | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by Tzale :The problem isn't that you're a Verizon fanboi ... You claimed I was kissing their ass in a previous post.
said by Tzale :but rather that you're sticking up for big business like they need it. My posts clearly stated that I believed that people who could switch from Verizon to another provider as a result of these problems should. Such people would clearly be happier with a provider that can deliver the services advertised. How is that sticking up for big business?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by pnh102 :Life just isn't fair sometimes. LOL, remind me that when the next emergency arises and internet & cell towers take a royal dump. Living in California, that's a very viable scenario given earthquakes, and so having a maintained & functional network is key for disaster/safety planning.
...and of course, there's just the "Murphy's Law" syndrome. Cell & internet can go dead for less disastrous reasons (unexplained power outages come to mind), and having POTS avaliable for emergency use would again be a necessity.
A "sucks to be you" technology vision isn't a wonderful one to maintain when crap hits the fan. Redundant backup/emergency services are one of those things that're only missed when people need them the most. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by AquaBlaze :A "sucks to be you" technology vision isn't a wonderful one to maintain when crap hits the fan. Redundant backup/emergency services are one of those things that're only missed when people need them the most. Well if you are already having problems with Verizon landline service in a non-disaster situation, then it is pointless to worry about if it will work in a disaster situation.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
edit:
October 30th, @05:10PM
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by pnh102 :Well if you are already having problems with Verizon landline service in a non-disaster situation, then it is pointless to worry about if it will work in a disaster situation. Umm...I'd think if it was in a state of disrepair in a non-disaster situation, then that'd be a cause of alarm, not dismissal. I mean, internet and cellphones are much easier to knock out via normal operation means...a maintained copper network has historically been much sturdier.
...and no. Cellphone and residential internet's "best effort" availability services just don't cut it when lives are at stake. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by AquaBlaze :...and no. Cellphone and residential internet's "best effort" availability services just don't cut it when lives are at stake. When did I make such a claim?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: More Reasons to Switch said by pnh102 :said by AquaBlaze :...and no. Cellphone and residential internet's "best effort" availability services just don't cut it when lives are at stake. When did I make such a claim? said by pnh102 :said by Tzale :Because some people want service through landline, and shouldn't have to be shitted on just because they want to keep their copper. Not everyone knows or wants to port to VOIP or a Cell Phone. Life just isn't fair sometimes. If phone service is that important to someone, then they will take the time to learn about alternate means of getting it if they believe that Verizon's service is no good. *shrugs* Maybe it's just me, but it just came across as though you were suggesting that VoIP and/or cell coverage works just as good as POTS. However, as history has shown, POTS reliability fairs much better when push comes to shove.
If I was mistaken by your intentions, my mistake. | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Great..... In small towns like mine that will never see Fios in my lifetime this is GREAT news...
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raiduh
join:2007-10-30
| Neglecting Copper Yea, it's a really difficult problem for VZ. They have to continue to gain market share to show the investment community the $ for Fios are paying off. At the same time it is impossible to maintain service levels to what they "SHOULD" be without a massive hire which, again, would draw the ire of the investment community.. My 1st post by the way. Hi to all!! | |
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| | raiduh
join:2007-10-30
| Re: Neglecting Copper Thx much. Another thing I'd like to add, Fios or rather VZ's intentions are to gain marketshare in the most prime locations, notably > tri-state area of NJ/NY/CT. In this region (CABELVISION COUNTRY) Fios is now offered in 25% of this market. Market share outside of tri-state (COMCAST COUNTRY) 4%. Everything VZ is doing it is to gain approval on Wall St. I know this is a tech site (and it rocks!!) there is striclty a monetary means to the placement of Fios. I understand the technology very well and have spoken to many cust's. 90% of the time I hear it rocks!!!!!!! Myself, I am cost concious b4 all else. When Fios comes my way I am going to use it a toll to get DEEP cost savings from Comcast...Where tis cable vs telco battle ends up? Don't know. But, it seems telco has the better future while cable will enjoy marketshare for the forseeable future as FTTH is very time and cost intensive. From the perspective of thge telco's, this FTTH/FTTC was necessary. The fact that cable is able to offer telco services and prior to Fios/Uverse telco was not able to offer video would eventually have meant the downfall of telco... | |
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N3OGH
It's Biden Vs. the Biscuit. Sarah's hot
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Neglecting Copper said by raiduh :I know this is a tech site To jip Moe Sizlack
"You're a looooong way from home yuppie techie boy, I'll start a tab..."
Sure, this is a tech site but these discussions often go off in the direction that you took. It's a relevant point and on topic.
Welcome to BBR, have fun!
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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| | | | raiduh
join:2007-10-30 | Re: Neglecting Copper ok Wacoyle, I gotta admit, that was good! | |
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hitman_001
Premium
join:2006-11-20
Laredo, TX
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| This should be simple. Verizon plans their upgrades to areas, and when an area is fully upgraded.. Turn off the copper to those places. Offer folks a deal for the trouble of the switch, and service their phone, Internet and Tv if desired through Fios. Offer a nice triple play, and go. Its a network upgrade, and should be treated as such. Verizon can sell off their copper network in the area, then give a cutoff date for their copper services, and folks who wish to keep it, can choose to go with the new provider, who will keep up the maintenance.
Now.. places where fios isnt available.. You've got to maintain your network. Period. You cant stop maintaining copper because you might service them with Fios in 25 years.
Bottom line, Deploy and dump copper, or maintain your network.
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Hn7000s Small Office plan/.74m dish & 1Watt Trans on Satmex 5 Signal: 86/Win XP Pro SP2/P4 3gig, 2Gigs Ram, Radeon X1300 500meg video | |
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| | joeMI
join:2006-08-15
Mcmillan, MI
| Re: Neglecting Copper I couldn't agree more.
To the people who want to fine Verizon and other telcos. THAT DOESN'T WORK!
A few years ago in Wisconsin, the public service commission fined a utility company. Do you know what they did? The executives got raises and a bonus. I think some workers were laid off. And, they applied for a rate increase the next year! Yea, that worked out real good.
Fining the telcos is the equivalent of fining ourselves.
You need to restrict future growth (as others have suggested) or come up with a penalty that doesn't flow through to the customer base--annex sections of their network to other carriers (i.e. if you don't maintain it, you loose it), termination of executives, fining the executives the equivalent of 50% of their compensation, etc.
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HughesNet | Business Internet plan | HN7000S | .98m/2W dish | 91W:1050MHz | 65 signal | ACP 82 | 1150Kbps/80Kbps | |
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Alakar
Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| AT&T is hiring exactly because of this. The have alot of openings if anybody is interested.
»https://www.bellsouth.com/employment/Ext···No=10161
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the arguments of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger | |
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Phylop
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Reston, VA | Thieves? What ever happened to those copper thieves I used to hear so much about? | |
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Phylop
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Reston, VA
·Comcast
| Re: Thieves? said by jack b :Are you referring to those individuals who physically remove copper for scrap value, or the companies who who put it up in the first place? The ones who remove it and sell it for scrap. :P | |
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T_Mc
join:2007-10-05
Arlington, VA
| broadbandreports incredibly misleading The broadbandreports paragraph above is incredibly misleading.
The study ran from 2000 to 2005. FiOS, U-Verse, and other new technologies had nothing to do with this increase in repair time. Verizon didn't start installing FIOS until late 2005, and then it was only Texas.
Layoffs, decreased resources, and a lagging telecom industry are more accurate causes. One can also throw in all the extreme weather events in 2005 to partially explain the increase in repair time. | |
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Neglecting Copper
