 
TigerLord
Resident Pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Montreal | Wow... Gotta love the guy who makes you wait 7 minutes and gets back with a wrong answer. | |
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 | rodrod5
join:2001-02-28
Houston, TX | Re: Wow... the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte | |
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TigerLord
Resident Pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Montreal | Re: Wow... As a CSR for an ISP, they should, and enough to educate the clients that ask the difference between the two. | |
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| | | rodrod5
join:2001-02-28
Houston, TX
| Re: Wow... from what my experience tells me
the ISP sees it very different....even more so today than in the past....for 8-10 an hour you will not get a ton
and we all need to remember that a huge amount of people on the internet only know if they can get their email jokes, check their "auctions", and go to their news thingy
those that can even find this forum are so far ahead of the masses it is unbelievable.....the ISP knows people like those on this forum exist......and they know theymake way more money off of everyone else....and they know that in the end a user on this forum will weigh the bandwidth/speed/support/cost and make a choice (though sometimes I even wonder about that)....the ISP stands to gain little (in their mind) from offering the users like most on this forum what they really want....when they know you will settle for the best of what the rest get....because you have to
in short in the mind of Verizon.....if you know enough to make the call and quiz the agents then you know enough to find and evaluate the information for yourself (even if it takes 5 calls).....and if you can't find it or you don't know what any of it means.....all the better.....that is the subscriber they prefer.......the "it works or it does not work" guy/gal......you techno geeks make them crazie | |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
 ·Comcast
| Re: Wow... Generally I agree that most front-line support reps aren't able to match wits with many of the regulars here, on a technology level. But this is a billing question. It relates to technology, yes, but at the root of it, it is a question of how much the customer is going to owe if they use the service a certain way. A support rep shouldn't have to know how telephony technology works to tell me that long distance calls cost 10 cents a minute...
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net
| As a former Verizon CSR, I can tell you that the average rep receives brief training on data plans but doesn't utilize it much since this service is not as popular among your average consumer. These questions are better handled by the business reps as they receive a much higher volume of calls related to data plans and are therefore more familiar with that type of plan.
That being said, all of the reps have this info readily available to them, all they have to do is pull it up on their intranet resource and read it. The problem is most reps (and customers) aren't patient enough to take the time to read it. Also, most customers don't trust what they are told by a rep who has to read the info to find the answer, they prefer someone who already knows it. In this situation most reps will simply transfer the call to a business rep. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| I would not call Verizon Wireless an ISP. Yes they may fit the technical definition of an ISP, but I would not expect them to give me the same level of technical support for internet related issues as what an ISP does.
But I also agree that they still should know the difference between a kilobit and a kilobyte. Much the same way that I would expect them to know the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars. | |
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TigerLord
Resident Pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Montreal | Re: Wow... Internet Service Provider.. do they dot provide internet services? | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| said by rodrod5  :the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte Bit and byte wasn't the error most were making. Most did not understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents.
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"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Wow... said by AmeritecTech :said by rodrod5 :the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte Bit and byte wasn't the error most were making. Most did not understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. Not to mention, isn't that the exact same amount from last year? | |
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snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs:
| I agree. The difference between a byte and a bit to even a moderately computer savy person is obvious but Kb and kb tend to be more confusing.
I am, however, worried about the people would cannot differentiate between .002 dollars and .002 cents. .002 cents would allow a heck of a lot more data!
Indeed, my sides are a little sore from watching that video. | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
·Comcast
| Re: Wow... said by snipper_cr :I agree. The difference between a byte and a bit to even a moderately computer savy person is obvious but Kb and kb tend to be more confusing. Seems you got confused yourself. Kb and kb are the same thing. KB and Kb would be different. | |
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snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs: | Re: Wow... Yes, sorry thats what I ment. K and k would imply that there are two units of kilo :-P
But yeah that is what I meant | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by AmeritecTech :said by rodrod5 :the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte Bit and byte wasn't the error most were making. Most did not understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. I'm betting they went through training that told them .002 dollars, but that just doesn't make as much sense to say as .002 cents, so if as the poster above says, they don't quote data rates often, they probably remember .002 and think cents.
Personally I think Verizon Wireless needs to fire their training staff and probably change the metrics in use, as well as adding in a few "secret shopper" calls.
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Pretty Fly for a White Guy™ | |
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| | Synbios
join:2002-05-18
Worcester, MA
·Charter Pipeline
| The major problem is (especially for the second question), they have a hard time distinguishing between cents and dollars.
0.002 dollars is stupid anyway, their readout on their computer should simply say .2 cents.
Yeah the other problem is bit vs. byte.
They need to learn the difference between dollar and cent, and bit and byte. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Wow... said by Synbios :The major problem is (especially for the second question), they have a hard time distinguishing between cents and dollars. 0.002 dollars is stupid anyway, their readout on their computer should simply say .2 cents. Yeah the other problem is bit vs. byte. They need to learn the difference between dollar and cent, and bit and byte. Yeah, but to the average end user, .002 dollars sounds like a LOT less than .2 cents. I even had to pause and think about it for a second to figure out what exactly it was.
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Pretty Fly for a White Guy™ | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by Synbios :The major problem is (especially for the second question), they have a hard time distinguishing between cents and dollars. 0.002 dollars is stupid anyway, their readout on their computer should simply say .2 cents. Yeah the other problem is bit vs. byte. They need to learn the difference between dollar and cent, and bit and byte. In other words most get it COMPLETELY WRONG....
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»davescustompc.com | |
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| xenophon
join:2007-09-17 | Would like to see this with more basic cellphone service questions. Probably won't have as high of an error rate but still probably too high. | |
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BryanOnRR
join:2007-06-22
Brandon, FL | uneducated This is great.. Great idea.
They sure need some qc.
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The Maxx
max dn 22mbps / max up 4.7mbps | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Not shocking Considering the crappiness of our educational system in the US I'm not shocked that people don't the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Too funny but too true! I'd like to do this for my friend that is mired in the DSL nightmare called Verizon DSL support in Hazleton, PA!!
They shut off her DSL. They said it was problem with her phone line. They said it was her modem. They said she never paid. They said she requested termination. They said its at their end. They said billing will resolve but closed now. They said but didn't fix it and its now going on two weeks.
Do you complain to PUC? FTC? FCC? What is one to do. She has no email. Her billing is debit from her account so that wasn't the issue. She never terminated her service (she's a freelancer!).
(I had to intervene as a relative works in another state for DSL support...but still...she is getting short end...)  | |
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| rodrod5
join:2001-02-28
Houston, TX
1 edit | Re: The big question!?! well you see their call coaching scores came back and they failed to offer the subscriber the chance to purchase an upgrade in their services.....and they also were a bit soft spoken with their Verizon greeting....and they forgot to ask you to please hang on the phone and take a brief survey to let Verizon know how well you were able to improve their Verizon experience
and one of these 3 is a fireable offense....all 3 togather is insubordination | |
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darbea
from the Dark Side
Premium
join:2007-07-15
Coatesville, PA
| Re: The big question!?! said by rodrod5 :well you see their call coaching scores came back and they failed to offer the subscriber the chance to purchase an upgrade in their services.....and they also were a bit soft spoken with their Verizon greeting....and they forgot to ask you to please hang on the phone and take a brief survey to let Verizon know how well you were able to improve their Verizon experience and one of these 3 is a fireable offense....all 3 togather is insubordination Thank-you!!!
Not only are you completely correct, but you hit the nail on the head.
The ludicrous measuring systems in place are beyond comprehension to anyone who doesn't work for VZ. The stress levels, absence rates, employee rollovers (thru promotion or retreat to former title, if allowed), are much higher than any other department.
For service reps hired "off the street", their chance of making it thru the first 6 months is much slimmer than an existing employee who upgraded to the title.
Funny thing is, it redefines the word, 'upgrade'.
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Friends Don't let friends vote Republican
Somewhere in Texas There's a Village Missing an Idiot and here's a clue:
"Is our children learning?" --George W. Bush
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Telepromt? Apparently they need a better faq sytem for their agents.
"What is the data rate for overages?".
Right now it must come back with something the agents have to interpret. It should instead come back with an easy to read statement that requires no math or other computational skills. Like icons vs. numbers at McDonald's.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Telepromt? said by Lumberjack :Apparently they need a better faq sytem for their agents. You'd think in the days when most CSRs simply read from scripts this would not be an issue.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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shadow3432
@comcast.net | Re: Telepromt? I'm guessing that the problem is that the operator doesn't know how to read "$.02/kb" in the script.
The script should be changed to "point zero two dollars per kilobyte" or "two cents per kilobyte". | |
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Re: Telepromt? said by shadow3432 :
I'm guessing that the problem is that the operator doesn't know how to read "$.02/kb" in the script.
The script should be changed to "point zero two dollars per kilobyte" or "two cents per kilobyte".
It should say every possible valid statement.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Got to love it.... More and more these days, training is cut in the pursuit of profits. Unfortunately, training pays for itself in the long run.
Wrong answers make no one happy and breads distrust between a company and its customers. | |
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Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
| took 3 calls to get the right answer I recently had an incident with a 3 cell phone family plan between me and my folks. they were going to Europe for 3 Months while I still needed my phone on the same plan with them. So I inquired what would be the suspended service cost savings on 2 out of 3 phones on the same family plan. my first call got a very generous answer, my second call a very niggardly answer, and finally on the third try I got the correct answer. Had I called only once, I would have suspended those phones only to find them cancelled 3 Months later because of the Hundreds of dollars I would not know I still had to pay. So based on my experience and the YouTube video, it appears that Verizon customer service people generally make up stuff to sound accommodating on the phone, only to find Months later you take it in the rear for charges you would not prepared to pay. | |
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On The Down Low
@bellsouth.net
| Re: took 3 calls to get the right answer Part of the confusion is there are multiple data overage/roaming rates
.2 cents, or .002 dollars for data roaming in canada
the overage rate on the 10MB (now) $24.99 is one .5 cents
the pay as you go KB rate in the US is 1.5 cents/kb, or .015 dollars
then there's the new MB charges for the nationwide plans for regular handsets, $1.99/MB
what really needs to happen is for all data to standardize on one price. still no excuse for the wrong answers | |
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DotMac4
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: took 3 calls to get the right answer That's not the problem. The problem is public education and the lack of it.
They read the price list and see $0.002 and read it aloud as ".002 cents".
Given my experience in dealing with Verizon customer service, I'd be surprised if many of them could even find Canada on a map. | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: took 3 calls to get the right answer said by DotMac4 :That's not the problem. The problem is public education and the lack of it. They read the price list and see $0.002 and read it aloud as ".002 cents". Given my experience in dealing with Verizon customer service, I'd be surprised if many of them could even find Canada on a map. The problem is not PUBLIC education..its that the Verizon reps have NO IDEA what their company sells...I am sure they can PRINT THE DAMN rates and pin them up in their cubes.
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»davescustompc.com | |
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DotMac4
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | Re: took 3 calls to get the right answer You can tell by the types of responses that they had the price list in front of them. Unfortunately they're so poorly educated they don't know how to verbalize $0.002. | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: took 3 calls to get the right answer said by DotMac4 :You can tell by the types of responses that they had the price list in front of them. Unfortunately they're so poorly educated they don't know how to verbalize $0.002. Unless you had/have a camera in the call center ..that's an awful big leap.
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»davescustompc.com | |
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DotMac4
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | Re: took 3 calls to get the right answer Not at all unless you're suffering the effects of a public education gone south. | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
|  The odd part...
This experiment proves to me that Verizon did jack shit to ensure quality service after last year's incident.
I hope next year, someone performs the same experiment again, just to see if the 93% inaccuracy rate drops, remains the same, or increases.
Amusingly enough, at my workplace, we hired someone a few months ago that continually operates under the mentality that 50% * 3 == 100%. This guy has actual certifications for what he does... yet simple math skills seem to be outside of his mental capacity.
Doesn't anyone go to school any more? (And yes, that's a serious question.)
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Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Taking the first answer... I remember when I called to make changes on a plan I have with Sprint (who also has less than adequate service agents), and immediately the answer was that I would have a ETF on that if I made a change.
Do huh? I raised hell and the guy went back and got the right answer, which was umm, NO. I could see perhaps a contract extension (was only a month after I first started the contract so really no big deal) but an ETF on that? LOL Yea right.
If you accept the first thing they say, you're likely to get screwed.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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madrhino
join:2004-07-03 | Lies,Lies.Lies!! This is a complete falsehood.There is no way Verizon has one customer service employee who can answer 2 questions about anything,including their own name and day of the week.
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA | Dubious Math Skills So the next question is: Why do they "record this conversation for quality control"? | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23
| There oughta be a law Is there?
If you record (for proof) their rep quoting you a lowball price, can you hold Vz to it if they charge you a higher rate?
After all, the salesman is officially representing Verizon. Sort of an oral contract if you sign up with him/her. Why shouldn't the lower price stick?
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"tick...tick...tick..."
»www.jtf.org/
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| mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS
·Sunflower Broadband
·Comcast
| Re: There oughta be a law Unfortunately, it's probably all spelled out somewhere in the contract that you eventually have to sign (of course, I naturally assume this, when I probably shouldn't). I'm sure corporate lawyers would bog any of us down until the end of days with such things. | |
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SKYWARP
join:2005-02-02
Portland, OR | LOL Damn, that shat was funny as hell.
I passed this link around the office this morning, it was a hit.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| So... what if YOU record the conversation? So you call up, ask ask specific questions about the data rate.
You record the call.
Based on what the rep tells you, you agree to sign up.
You get hit with a massive bill because the rep screwed up/lied.
Ignore the bill, dispute it. After a few months there's a huge disparity between what Verizon says you owe and what you signed up for.
So, take 'em to court. Play the recording. Win! Verizon gets slapped, you don't pay bill, they pay you your court costs...
Maybe even some nice punitive damages as well. Sounds like they need 'em.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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floepie
join:2005-12-01
| hi. I think more people than would seem at the surface know the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars.
They just don't know what actual word to use when they see "$0.002 / KB" on a piece of paper. Most evidently say, "point zero zero two cents per kilobyte". We'll never really know what percentage of those who say it in that manner, however incorrect it is, know the difference between the 2 amounts that differ by a 100-fold. | |
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ddwibb
join:2004-09-02
Holyoke, MA
| Vindicated! Recently I tried to contact VZW through their on line "contact us" page. For a week and a half they gave me 101 reasons why I needed to call them to get answers.
I got much criticism by family and friends for not simply calling VZW. They didn't believe my fanciful tales of false information coming from VZW's highly trained CSRs.
Never did get the answers  | |
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JE
Can I Taste It? Mmmm
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Brooklyn, NY
| LoL...Eat That verizon! This is great research!!!! I love this! Makes Verizon look very unprofessional that most of the CSR's get the answers wrong. So this means that when you call in and ask a question about something mathematical on your bill, 50% of the time, it will be wrong! Hmmmmmmmmm!
This definitely is not the company I want giving me service, and I work in CS and know the difference and didn't even graduate College!
I think the Cable companies outght to take this video and make a commercial out of it.
JE
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BLAZIN' FAST OOL @: 27.883/4.7233 Can Your ISP Go This FAST? VRoOoOoOoOm!
-- I Have: ZA Suite 6.0.631.003 | ICQ: 16705298 | YaHoo IM: Gemini365i | AOLIM: EdGei365i | FWD#: 452620 | VoIP#: Hmmm... |
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benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest
| I Guess It's Not a Common Question for "Regular Joes" To Ask If you don't use a certain bit of knowledge often enough, you're likely to forget it. I took Calculus III once, even earning a decent grade, but I probably forgot at least half of what I learned.
I'm guessing that anyone who uses mobile data either gets the "Unlimited" option (VZW really has a 5GB cap), or doesn't bother.
I'm also guessing that most people realize that Pay-as-you-go data is generally a rip-off. Me, I don't bother with Internet access that isn't "unlimited*," or has caps and overage fees. Since I honestly have no idea how many KB or MB many websites are, nor can I be bothered to count the number of pages I visit even if I did know.
*-Every connection has a technical limit, even without artificial limitations. Even if you saturate a T1 24/7, you can only move a certain amount of data in a single month. I can accept this. I can't accept artificial limits or paying overage fees since it's hard to quantify usage. Plus consider the fact that data is often transferred even if you do nothing at all (e.g. automatic virus signature updates). Plus, don't get me started on bots and hacking, which uses bandwidth even if your firewall blocks the connection. It must first receive the connection (and thus use bandwidth) before it can be blocked. It's similar to a door-to-door salesman causing wear and tear on your porch before you turn him away. | |
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NetLarry
join:2007-03-18
Johnstown, PA
| Verizon Phone Numbers You realize that when you call the toll-free number that you see on a TV ad that chances are good that you're NOT talking to Verizon. I worked in a call center where we took calls, and the CSRs did not have most of the information needed to answer questions correctly. Not to mention the call monitoring requirements; must attempt to sell every available service to every caller. Failure to do so will result in a zero score if monitored and 4 zeros and you're out. You should hear customers whose existing services aren't working when you try to sell them something new!
I've abandoned that job and now am a CSR for a small (#15?) cable company, and I'm happier now. No more required lies to callers, and when I transfer you to tech support, it's just across the hall, not in India! | |
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Verizon's Dubious Math Skills
The big question!?!