  DotMac Shill H8r Premium join:2007-10-26 Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | Supply will increase with demand Supply will simply accelerate. Level 3 and other providers have nothing to gain and everything to lose by reaching capacity. Reaching capacity costs them a lot of money and there is certainly a large opportunity cost. It is in their best interest to keep up with demand. | |
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 |   swhx7 Premium join:2006-07-23 Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Supply will increase with demand Isn't there excess capacity on the mainlines? That's what I've read. The bottleneck is from the endpoints to the backbones. Residential service in particular needs to get upgraded to fiber.
It's easy to get these dire predictions if you assume demand will continue increasing at the present rate, but also assume that infrastructure will remain the same. But that's not realistic.
The study is contrived to support anti-neutrality political maneuvering. | |
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 |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Supply will increase with demand Increasing bandwidth by a factor of 2 at the home (per line), would require capacity at the backhaul to increase substantially, if that capacity is not already there. Items such as sniffing (AT&T's anti-piracy attempt), and throttling (Sandvine - Comcast, COX, and others) are attempts at allowing the Telcos/Cableco's to have their cake and eat it too. Eg. We'll give you 50Mbps, but you can only download HTML and items through our portal.
If they _really_ want to push that kind of service, they _should_ call it AOL or something else, not 'Internet'. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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  hopeflicker Capitalism breeds greed Premium join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA | and the shills... will blame it on P2P | |
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 |  joker5656
join:2006-06-23 Dallas, GA
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: and the shills... said by hopeflicker :will blame it on P2P that's why they want to get rid of Network Neutrality | |
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 |  |   spewak Kiss It, Kiss It Real Good Premium join:2001-08-07 Elk Grove, CA
·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..
| Re: and the shills... said by joker5656 :said by hopeflicker :will blame it on P2P that's why they want to get rid of Network Neutrality Exactly. Nothing more, nothing less!!  -- The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
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 |  |  bicker
join:2007-05-10 Burlington, MA
| The problem isn't specifically P2P but rather the way P2P goes hand-in-hand with super-high volume usage of bandwidth. For practically everything else in our world, you pay for how much you use. Heavy users pay more; light users don't have to subsidize the heavy users, and instead pay only for what they use. That's equity.
"Net neutrality" is just a cover for "make everyone pay for my excesses". | |
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 |   Monster Rain Premium join:2002-08-03 USA
| said by hopeflicker :and the shills will blame it on P2P Unless you work at an ISP and actually see what the traffic is, I'd hold my breath. 50-60% off all the backbone traffic is P2P. It's a fact ... it's not web browsing, it's not gaming, it's not multicast, it's not voip, it's not email ...it's P2P. | |
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 |  bicker
join:2007-05-10 Burlington, MA
| ... and the "miscreants" and their "apologists" will call people who disagree with them "shills" (probably because they cannot accept the reality that reasonable people disagree with them). :rolleyes: Are we done calling each other names?
Geez... sometimes it is like friggen kindergarten around here!!! | |
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 kcblack Premium join:2000-09-11 Chicago, IL
·RCN CABLE
| Doom and Gloom 4:20 into the video...makes you wonder what they have been smokin' 
As I remember, the Internet (notice the capital I) has been doomed to meltdown several times in the past and it hasn't come to pass yet.
There has been one of those rules of thumb that computer guys have known since the COBOL days. "Data expands to fill the available space", its true of RAM, its true of disk storage, its true of bandwidth....'nuff said.
Kevin -- "Because weâve invested over $4 billion in building our MegaBand network so you can enjoy the internet the way it was intended to be â fast and uncapped." (RCN marketing Promo) | |
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 |  |  kcblack Premium join:2000-09-11 Chicago, IL | Re: Doom and Gloom sorry, I forgot for a minute that I was supposed to write a FUD response 
Kevin | |
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 |  bogey780
join:2004-03-19 Here | '"Data expands to fill the available space", its true of RAM, its true of disk storage, its true of bandwidth....'nuff said.'
But filling the pipe completely is still a problem. Same as filling up all the RAM or HDD space. | |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Only If... Does Netcraft confirm it? -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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 |   BodyBumper
join:2004-06-21 Beverly Hills, CA
| Re: OTA HDTV Bizarre post. | |
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 |  |   gaforces United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07 Santa Cruz, CA | Re: OTA HDTV Sorry, I should elaborate. Free over the air hdtv stations should alleviate some of the pressures on the internet for video. | |
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 |  |  |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: OTA HDTV They have on demand OTA? That would be cool.
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 |  |  |  |   gaforces United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07 Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
| Re: OTA HDTV said by jester121 :They have on demand OTA? That would be cool. Technically possible with new equipment but more on the wishlist side, Id like the history channel, sci-fi, and speed on ota hdtv too 
If I wanted to watch something bad enough to pay for on demand, I'll buy the dvd. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL
·surpasshosting
·ViaTalk
| Re: OTA HDTV said by gaforces :If I wanted to watch something bad enough to pay for on demand, I'll buy the dvd. Ummm... that's kind of the point -- if everyone shared your view, there wouldn't be any video over the internet at all, other than amateur crap. | |
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 nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| excellent stenography the USA story is a brilliant example of main stream media stenography:
take whatever someone tells you and write it down, with no fact checking, alternate sourcing or critical thinking applied.
I wonder how much writers for USA Today make? I can stenog as good as the next guy. | |
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 |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: excellent stenography said by nasadude :take whatever someone tells you and write it down, with no fact checking, alternate sourcing or critical thinking applied. Wow... I totally agree with you! Hell froze over again!
said by nasadude :I wonder how much writers for USA Today make? I can stenog as good as the next guy. Don't forget the real fictional writers are out on strike. USA Today has to make do with scabs till the next contract is approved. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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 jebba2005
join:2005-01-13 Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
| hmm In my MIS class, in one chapter we are told that overbuilding fiber nertworks was part of the cause of the dot com bubble. It also talks about the massive amount of dark fiber sitting dormant. The next chapter claims the internet is unable to handle the traffic it sees today. Can they have it both ways?
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 |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: hmm The networks know One True Thing: in Washington, FUD, lubricated by lobbying money, works.
The average congresscritter knows nothing about IT and reflexively accepts both the word of the industry "experts" and their contributions.
So yes, if we don't speak up, en masse, they can have it both ways. And they will. If we don't speak up. | |
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 |  |   Rogue Wolf Ate The Last Of The Pumpkin Pie
join:2003-08-12 Troy, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: hmm In Washington, whoever has the most money is right. After all, if they weren't right, they wouldn't have so much money, would they?  -- I have learned to ignore such naysayers, when... quelling... them... hm?... was out of the question. | |
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 |  |  |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ | Re: hmm Exactly. So we have this area of highly-concentrated correctness in Washington, sprinkled with streetwalkers for a bit of spice: they call it "K Street". | |
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 |   Matt Gone playing Dragon Age Origins Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by jebba2005 :In my MIS class, in one chapter we are told that overbuilding fiber nertworks was part of the cause of the dot com bubble. It also talks about the massive amount of dark fiber sitting dormant. The next chapter claims the internet is unable to handle the traffic it sees today. Can they have it both ways? Yes, because there has to be equipment on each end of the fiber to make it active and then ongoing maintenance to the fiber and equipment. That's the expensive part ... -- Pretty Fly for a White Guy | |
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 |  |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL
·surpasshosting
·ViaTalk
| Re: hmm What, you can't just put a Linksys router and a fiber transceiver at each end? [/sarcasm]
If nothing else, this site servers to illustrate that having a little bit of information is dangerous.
P.S. MattE, I'm not busting your chops, your post is right on. It's the other simplistic ninnies that make me shake my head... | |
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 |   Packeteers Premium join:2005-06-18 Forest Hills, NY
2 edits | After working for a company that laid backbone fiber all over NYC, I can testify this is true. We used to lay cables and termination test 384 fiber strand cables, while the customer only used 16 of them. so between the dark fibers, and quantum leaps being made every year in data compression algorithms, we won't have capacity problems probably ever. there may be a bottle neck forming here and there that backbone designers will have to circumvent, but no apocalyptic capacity shortage. the expensive part IS laying the fiber. attaching equipment to each strand is justified and amortized by the port addition and throughput metering that is ultimated charged back to the customer. so higher bandwidth capacity requirements may not reduce our broadband end use cost anytime soon, but there certainly will never be a shortage of it unless you live in an area who's Central Office distribution center near you is not worth building out just to serve a few people like you. some areas have this problem even with old aDSL copper availability, especially if they are well penetrated by cable TV operators. | |
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  TMMerlin The Devil made me do it
join:2003-06-19 Oxford, MI
·EarthLink
| Not to worry ! I am sure the "traffic shapers" and the "ISP throttles" will push and push and push and raise costs and raise costs and when we get the "volume monitor police" authorized by the Patriot Act ( yah see all that huge traffic is just disguised terrorist activity planning) and we that just pluck along won't feel a thing anyway ! -- Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend. | |
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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Well, it sells newspapers. Sex Violence Destruction War Drugs Political Bashing Apocalypse sells  | |
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 jervin123
join:2005-04-14 Philadelphia, PA | *OMG* OMG what will the world do without the internet, maybe the Chinese will take over our power grid right before then. | |
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 |  Synbios
join:2002-05-18 Worcester, MA | Re: *OMG* delete youtube, that will solve half the problem. | |
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 |  |  jervin123
join:2005-04-14 Philadelphia, PA | Re: *OMG* can't simply just "delete" youtube. Youtube has become a Goliath and is slowly integrating with it's owner Google to become an even larger entity. | |
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  PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03 | What about Al? Can't we just hire Al Gore to invent a new, faster internet? | |
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 SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19 | USA Today Does Not Disappoint This is fear-mongering at its finest. And as is well known, FUD sells newspapers. | |
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  fatmanskinny Premium join:2004-01-04 Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| The presidential race is coming up.... I am sure the fear-mongering will increase. Next up:
* Google is going to start the new world order
* Bush is really a democrat
* Hillary and Obama slept together
* Justin from DSLReports is really an automated program being beta-tested by Microsoft / Linux / Apple / IBM. -- The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary. | |
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 |   blitz
@WYOMING.COM | * Hillary and Obama slept together Thanks,
I really could have done without that visual!
The only thing worse would have been to toss in Barney Frank or Ted Kennedy for a.......
Gotta go barf......... | |
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 axus
join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | did they expect traffic to stop growing? The amount of data that people send back and forth will always be increasing. Internet providers are always growing their capacity so they can sell more.
If traffic is growing faster than they can build out quick enough to keep up, then guess what? They can raise the price! When a resource is scarce, raising the price allows a "fair" distribution, and encourages new producers to appear.
Obviously an increased price is good for AT&T and other backbone providers, so why are they against it? Of course it's possible that the internet isn't growing too fast, and they are using it for other purposes. But it's believable that production can't keep up. I think the issue is they don't want new producers to appear. If they can't provide all the bandwidth fast enough, other companies would build more to meet the demand. That would mean future competition for them, and the capacity crunch would be met eventually, bringing prices down.
What they'd probably like, instead, is to control the demand side by throttling traffic or capping it. It's like the old phone monopolies where people didn't use much long distance because of the cost... except instead of cost they'll use poor performance. I don't think this will work, though. The business market is always going to demand good performance, and since it's more profitable, competitors would show up there first. From there, they can move into the consumer market. | |
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 |   Tzale Proud Libertarian Conservative Premium join:2004-01-06 Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: 2010 = bad year said by ninjatutle :IP addresses will run out. IPv4. We're doomed. As of May 2007, predictions of exhaustion date of the unallocated IANA pool seem to converge to between March 2010 and May 2010. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4#Exhaustion Some feel 2012 is the end!!!!!  | |
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 |  |  |   natedj Elected Premium join:2001-06-06 Columbia, SC | Re: 2010 = bad year Its a darn good thing that I backed up the whole internet on my hard-drive last night, you just can't take chances these days. -- Good judgement comes with experience...Experience comes after bad judgements | |
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 |   jap Premium join:2003-08-10 038xx
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by ninjatutle :IP addresses will run out. IPv4. I thought that was 2002. No wait, 2004. Oops, I meant 2005. | |
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  Richard B Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22 Portland, OR
·Comcast
| Even if it tru its not going to happen 55,000,000,000 is a lot of money. IF the cable companies spend that much money upgrading, one go to see a huge amount of defaults and bankruptcy in the industry. As much Google wants cram HD video down the network it not going to happen as longs as the bandwidth needed is not economically feasible. Economics is the regulator of internet bandwidth. | |
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  Thespis I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV. Premium join:2004-08-03 Keller, TX | Pokey? quote: ...will start to seem pokey
How many kbps is "pokey"?
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 jdir
join:2001-05-04 Santa Clara, CA | 27 Petabytes per month !!! That's a lot of video the NSA has to watch and record. I guess the NSA has to buy truck load of hard drive a month to record all those videos | |
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