Ask DSLReports.com: What Is NebuAD? The CEO tries to ease your privacy worries, explains Fair Eagle When it comes to the online advertising industry, consumers aren't exactly a trusting bunch. That's understood, given the laundry list of companies that have treated user PCs like a battlefield and used consumer privacy as a punching bag. So when a company by the name of NebuAD stated they'd be deploying a new hardware device within ISP networks that would track user behavior, consumers got nervous. Consumer nerves weren't exactly soothed when reports emerged that in addition to using surveillance hardware to monitor your browsing habits, the company was also involved in an ad injection system that allowed ISPs to insert their own ads into websites (regardless of the existing advertising deals struck between webmaster and other advertisers). We spoke to NebuAD CEO Bob Dykes to find out just what the company had planned, and whether we should be terrified. According to Dykes, the company is working with "Multiple tens of ISPs," who have installed, free of charge, deep packet inspection hardware on the ISP network. Deep packet inspection hardware, as the name suggests, analyzes the data and/or header part of a packet, and can track data type based on any number of pre-set criteria. Originally designed for security purposes, DPI recently found new life in both NebuAD's implementation and in implementation by ISPs as a way to identify and throttle p2p traffic. Deep Packet Inspection is also expected to be at the heart of AT&T's proposed piracy filters. NebuAD's hardware (each device can handle 10-30k users) tracks every website an ISP user visits, at what speed, and for how long. ISPs pay nothing, do nothing, and in return for the information, get checks mailed to them monthly. In an age where ISPs are terrified of being dumb pipe providers, and are trying to make an additional buck through everything from DNS redirection to car sales, such a user-invisible profit stream is going to prove hugely appealing. Opting Out & PrivacyWhile that's certainly a nice deal for the ISPs, users are obviously concerned about the privacy implications. From all indications, NebuAD knows that in this age of malware, data leaks and warrantless wiretaps, they could easily sink if they don't make user privacy a priority. According to NebuAD, they're protecting your privacy by never actually handling any data that identifies you, as you. Each piece of deep packet inspection hardware converts any key identifiers (such as IP address) to a one-way random number. The central servers at NebuAd then only receive this hash number, not the original identifiers. The company has a list of categories (e.g. Cars, SUV, Lexus) and notes if the hash number goes to a site, or performs a search, that is related to the category. If yes, it notes that interest mapped to the hash number. This data is stripped of personal and personally identifiable information and held in aggregate only -- NebuAd does not take information from ISP data systems, and does not share any data with ISP's, so no data concentration occurs -NebuAD |
NebuAd doesn't map the URLs visited, just the user interest (think of it as a tick-mark against that interest). "NebuAd only maps qualifications for interest categories against the hash," spokesman Anthony Loredo tells us. "Interest categories are kept sufficiently broad to preclude personal identification -- there are no categories for subjects that are deemed too personal, such as sex."To aggregate data, NebuAd converts the data into another random number and stores the URL visits in aggregate form. "Because of the second hash, it is never possible to deconstruct back to the original hash, or the original user," says Loredo. "This data is stripped of personal and personally identifiable information and held in aggregate only -- NebuAd does not take information from ISP data systems, and does not share any data with ISP's, so no data concentration occurs," he says. "ISPs are completely passive in our model."Dykes says that the advertisements fired your way once this data is collected will also have limits, as in the company won't be watching your WebMD searches to send you ads for gout medication, nor will they be advertising to your personal porn preferences. "There are absolutely lines drawn," says Dykes. "The lines vary on where we are, but in the U.S., there's no sex ads and no medical condition ads."When asked if NebuAd would find other uses for all of this user data, such as selling it to researchers or other industries, Dykes insists that "we don't sell data, we only sell advertising." As for the potential for data leaks, the company insists the data would be all but useless if it got into the hands of scammers. The idea of tracking behavior via ISP hardware "certainly would give people some cause for alarm," admits CEO Dykes, though they say they've gone "out to extreme lengths" to make sure consumer identities aren't at risk. Dykes also ensures us that part of their contract with ISPs mandates that they clearly inform users if the ISP implements this new system, and gives them a clear and easy way to opt-out (something we'll be watching carefully). Changing The Advertising Game & Fair EagleAs for advertising, Dykes, who used to work for Juniper Networks, thinks his solution is going to change the advertising game. According to the CEO, his system gets around the bane of many Internet advertisers: cookie deletion. "The advertising industry believes that about forty percent of people delete the cookies about once a month," notes Dykes. But the most obvious perk is the ability to more specifically target ads based on interest. "We can see not only that you went to a travel site, but we can see what types of vacations you're looking for," he says. "That's just impossible with a cookie based network today. We have much greater depth of interest, and as a result we have about eight hundred potential categories for advertisers, whereas today all of the other networks have between twenty and forty."But what about the company's intrusive Fair Eagle project? Texas-based ISP Redmoon managed to annoy the entire Internet after they began forcing ads atop existing advertising arrangements. ISP users were not informed, nor were they allowed to opt-out. Dykes insists to us that, at least in the format that first caught our eye, the project is no more. "Earlier in our exploration of advertising alternatives, we had explored with Free Wi-Fi operators the notion that occasional pop-up advertisements were more appealing to users than having their web browser "framed" to a smaller size, with a permanent banner ad filling the top of the screen," says Dykes. "It was accidentally deployed by a wireline provider for a very brief time without our knowledge. We have discontinued that offering."The company is not injecting ads over existing advertising relationships, though there are companies who are. From our conversations with the company, it's pretty clear that NebuAD realizes they can't do business unless they place a priority on user privacy and security. However, given how invisible the whole process is, it's virtually impossible to gauge this independently. NebuAD says they're working with "multiple tens of ISPs" -- but we've yet to hear a peep from any of these providers -- who likely don't want the PR fallout from tracking user activity. Do us a favor: keep a close eye on your privacy policy and tell us if your ISP mentions the use of NebuAD systems. We'd be curious to get your feedback on which ISPs are using the system (NebuAD wouldn't say), how transparent these providers are being about it, and how easy opt-out procedures are.
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 BPremium,MVM join:2000-10-28 | A Joke, Karl? Surely this is a joke, right? A well researched and well written joke?
ISPs are really going to inflict something like this on their paying customers. I'm sorry. I simply refuse to believe that any organization could be so mind-numbingly greedy and blind to basic human decency. I'm just going to pretend I didn't see this.
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function | |
|  |  | | Re: A Joke, Karl? Welcome to AOL | |
|  |  |  | | Re: A Joke, Karl? I believe I've found a gaping hole in this guys' argument. If these hashes cannot be traced back to the originating IP address... how is it that they can deliver targeted advertisements back to the end user?? | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: A Joke, Karl? Yup. I got the same lies from FasTrak - they claimed they couldn't track me, and yet they were able to send me a bill saying when I went through which toll booth. Lies, both! | |
|  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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1 edit | said by matrix3D:I believe I've found a gaping hole in this guys' argument. If these hashes cannot be traced back to the originating IP address... how is it that they can deliver targeted advertisements back to the end user?? Because your specific "hash" will identify you. Not who you are by name, address, or IP, which is really irrelevant to the purpose at hand. You will be identified by a hash number; your browsing history will be attached to that number, and when that number visits a website "targeted ads" will be sent to you. They don't care who you are, they are interested in what you are likely to buy. Ads will be targeted to your unique hash ID.
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
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 |  | | said by B:Surely this is a joke, right? A well researched and well written joke? ISPs are really going to inflict something like this on their paying customers. I'm sorry. I simply refuse to believe that any organization could be so mind-numbingly greedy and blind to basic human decency. I'm just going to pretend I didn't see this. -- B And you think any company wouldn't do this based on what exactly ?
Because of isps becoming so large , YES IM LOOKING AT YOU COMCAST, they think they can do what they want with the content. That includes throttling , faking packets and injecting ads.
Interesting to note one ISP a lot of people use ( I won't mention names ) has more ads on some pages I visit from then from work where they provide us just pipes. But yet my friends on Verizon don't see the same added on ads. Yeah it's freaky and disturbing , but I have learned to just use a anon proxy with ssl. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|  |  RadioDocYeah, like it matters.Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 La Grange, IL kudos:2 Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest
| I have a question for NebuAD (Nebulous Advertising?): How are you going to fire ads back my way once the data is collected if you are not, indeed, keeping personally identifiable, individual information? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  |  BPremium,MVM join:2000-10-28 | Re: A Joke, Karl? Yeah, they do try to explain it a bit -- it's another one of those "oh we keep aggregate demographics but there's no way, ever, it could be traced back to you; only we control the magical ability to target pizza ads to you after you search on 'pepperoni'" things. And not only don't I believe them either, it's beside the point. It's so prima facie wrong that it's almost unbelievable.
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function | |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Ads? Ads? We no see no stinking ads!  | |
|  |  |  |  |  ChiyoSave Me Konata-ChanPremium join:2003-02-20 Charlotte, NC kudos:1 | Re: Ads? So why do the rates keep rising and rising? This is unfair and the customer doesn't have a say in this.
Many people don't have another option and if they need / want HSI they must go with these greedy ISPs.
Anyone want to start an ISP of VPNs or something? just use my HSI account to tunnel into another network and do what I want with all my privacy intact?
I know severla people will yell "USE TOR" but in my opinion Tor SUCKS too much damn work and slows down my surfing. | |
|  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| Re: Ads? said by Chiyo:I know severla people will yell "USE TOR" but in my opinion Tor SUCKS too much damn work and slows down my surfing. Very true. Perhaps what we need is a grass-roots consumer user movement to enhance the tor network. If we all give up just a little bit of bandwidth, we could, as a community of interest, make NebuAd as well as illegal government surveillance irrelevant.
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
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 |  |  wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb.. join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH | Bingo. I will NEVER click them, so I will block them. The net effect to websites who rely on advertising $$ == 0.
cw | |
|  |  |  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Re: Ads? said by wentlanc:Bingo. I will NEVER click them, so I will block them. The net effect to websites who rely on advertising $$ == 0. cw Net effect is that you are still freeloading and using bandwith. Bandwith isn't free Einstien. It's people that use adblock is why we stupid crap like this coming along. on day most of the internet will belike cable and you'll have to subscribe to every site you want to visit. Thanks Adblockers. | |
|  |  |  |  |  jgkoltPremium join:2004-02-21 Lakewood, OH | Re: Ads? bf i think you are missing the point. We don't want isp's injecting ads where the content creators didn't design them to be. Granite we dont want them at all but this new technique for adding ads to a page is sneaky and almost adaware ish. -- 3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me | |
|  |  |  |  |  wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb.. join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH | If I never visit your site, and never click on your ad, then perhaps you can explain how I'm freeloading?
You're right, bandwidth is not free. I'm paying for mine. Why do you expect me to pay for yours? If you can't turn a profit, then go out of business. I'm not obligated to support you.
cw | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX | Re: Ads? said by wentlanc:You're right, bandwidth is not free. I'm paying for mine. Why do you expect me to pay for yours? If you can't turn a profit, then go out of business. I'm not obligated to support you. cw Funny this is the same logic (or lack thereof) used by spammers to justify flooding our email with their crap. -- "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb.. join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH | Re: Ads? Not at all. I'm not trying to profit from anyone, and I'm only using bandwidth of websites that are making themselves available. Good try though. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| said by Doctor Four:Funny this is the same logic (or lack thereof) used by spammers to justify flooding our email with their crap. Wrong! It's the exact opposite! Spammers are stealing and riding the bandwidth which WE pay for to flood us with their adverts and wares. I pay my ISP for bandwidth, and spammers are using my paid resources to force ads on me.
This is exactly what this system is attempting to do. They are not any different than the spammers. You got it exactly backwards.
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
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 |  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| said by BF69:... Net effect is that you are still freeloading and using bandwith. Bandwith isn't free Einstien. ... Freeloading? What utter stupid nonsense! I pay dearly for my bandwidth! You get it free? Your bandwidth is paid for by advertising? What ISP do you use? I would love to know. I would gladly see adverts if I got a rebate on my bandwidth charges...
Einstein? More like dumbfkof!
Get real!
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
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 |  |  | | Can you say how do you fight the tide ?
Ad block plus only works if you know the ip. With this equipment they can forge the packets and make ads from a different ip every time. Not to mention they can use the devices ip or another ip from say I dunno the gateway of your head end or cloud and you don't allow ads you don't get on the web.
Pretty crafty devices. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Ads? Adblock would likely let it past, but NoScript won't if you configure it right. They can collect all of my browsing habits that they want as I'll never see their ads. | |
|  |  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| Re: Ads? said by dualsub2006:... NoScript won't if you configure it right. They can collect all of my browsing habits that they want as I'll never see their ads. Not so! You allow scripts here on dslr, if not, you can't use the "tools". So, a script comes to your browser, with an advert, it is forged to look like it came from dslr, you WILL see it ... there is no way to stop this!
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
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 |  |  |  |  Host: Time Warner Intern.. PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: Ads? quote: Nor do I! However, what NebuAD is going to do, is essentially inject bogus content into legit website content. It will not be possible to differentiate between adverts and legit content.
Technically no that's not what they're doing. They developed a technology for WISPS that was incorrectly used by one Texas ISP.
Their primary focus is behavioral advertising, which yes, has its own problems. | |
|  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| Re: Ads? said by Karl Bode:Technically no that's not what they're doing...... OK, so here I am surfing DSLR, the article states that NebuAd will "target" ads to me. How is that possible, unless they alter packets to my "established (Cisco-Speak)" connection with DSLR?
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
|  |  |  |  |  Host: Time Warner Intern.. PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: Ads? The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. In other words the DPI hardware should be able to notice you're interested in Hawaii and SUVs as opposed to the Virgin Islands and compact cars, and the ads you see will reflect this.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| Re: Ads? said by Karl Bode:The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. I understand how my interests are captured. NebuAD is using DPI instead of cookies, that's clear.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content. Call me dense (because I often am), but!!! Let's say I run a site, and have contracted with an advert firm (like google's AdSense) to place ads on my site. How can NebuAD control the ad content my users see without becoming a "man in the middle"?? Don't forget, NebuAD contracts with ISPs, not content providers.
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Ads? Problem here is the isp owns the stream.
Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get.
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are. And I am sure they didn't give him decent details so I don't blame him.
With DPI they can pick off a packet destined for say google. You searched for dog leashes, they will not instead of showing you the ads from google intercept and send you off to another ad. They will tack their ads onto googles.
Nice knowing this , however these devices can forge packets as well. So now they can see you blocked an ad of theirs, and go and inject a redirection on the fly so you think the ads are from google , but are being served up via a redirection from their local ad server.
I have to do this at work a lot to keep people off youtube and other sites like it. It is wrong but it's a place of business. These folks are doing the same on a isp that we pay for , not nice. -- "It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Host: Time Warner Intern.. PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: Ads? quote: I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are.
Certainly not my intent. The potential for abuse here is vast. But injection over the top of existing advertising relationships is not happening - yet.
I'd bet you're 100% correct that ultimately Ad-blocking applications are targeted and conquered.
I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
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| Re: Ads? said by Karl Bode:I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
Comcast, for example, hasn't raised prices in at least the last 6 years, meanwhile inflation has marched on. If you adjust for inflation then the price does indeed go down each year, and speeds have increased from 1.5/3mbps to 6/8mbps over that same period. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  RadioDocYeah, like it matters.Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 La Grange, IL kudos:2 | Re: Ads? I would suspect some of that non-price-increase has been borne by cable TV subs. They are not prohibited from cross-subsidy. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Ads? $40-50 VoIP helps too I'm sure. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN kudos:2 Reviews:
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| said by BosstonesOwn:Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get. Puking out a copy of a captured packet with the RST bit set to 1 and injecting viable content into an existing TCP session and having it properly render are completely different scenarios.
You're talking about the difference between building a paper airplane and building a space shuttle. To do the ad injection you would have to pass all port-80 traffic through content engines which could adjust the composition of the layer7 data to ensure proper rendering by web browsers. | |
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 |  |  |  jgkoltPremium join:2004-02-21 Lakewood, OH | would it help if we used another dns server besides our default isp's dns servers? -- 3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me | |
|  |  |  RadioDocYeah, like it matters.Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 La Grange, IL kudos:2 | Re: Ads? No. | |
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 |  swhx7Premium join:2006-07-23 Elbonia | Blocking ads with Adblock Plus (or some other means) is fine if not having them on your pages is all you care about.
But that's not the main concern of many people about this service. Others also care about the invasion of privacy. They prefer not to have a device at the ISP collecting the data on their web activity so it can be sold by a company they never asked to have watching them. | |
|
 TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx Reviews:
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| So now we are all consumers?BULL! The only way these bums can "target" adverts in such a system is by violating the copyright of the website owner.
To "inject" adds into someones content means altering the content; a clear violation of the publisher's copyright protections.
Bob -- Motor Vessel - Tamara B. 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME. See her Here. | |
|  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
 | | No wonder they've got tens of ISP's interested, it's just what they have been looking for. Clickstream revenue just isn't enough, and this offers network protection from p2p bandwidth surges. The injected ads will be the toughest part, although customers just might be desensitized enough not to notice. | |
|  | | Comcast 5 bucks says comcast is one of the isps | |
|  LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Williamstown, NJ kudos:5 1 edit | OptOut creates cookies with faireagle name
If you choose the Opt Out option they provide as seen from this link »www.nebuad.com/privacy/optout.php in the story above, it creates 2 cookies: a.faireagle.com b.faireagle.com
Whether they actually work or not, who knows.
Also adblock plus, with the Easylist subscription, blocks ads from both nebuad.com and faireagle.com.
-- Internet News My BLOG My Web Page | |
|  |  See 30 replies to this post | |
 BabyBearKeep wise ...with Nite-Owl join:2007-01-11 | Two Words! "Trust Us!" Ugh. When ever anyone ever tells you that, do the exact opposite. 
Over the next 5-10 years see a big push in encryption coming. The information in the packets being sent across the internet are no ones business except the sender and receiver. | |
|  LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Williamstown, NJ kudos:5 | Here is an interview with Nebuad's CEO
This is an interview from Jan 3, 2008: »www.clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3628009
Q. How do you obtain ad inventory and where do you serve the ads?
A. We buy the impressions from the ad networks. We are willing to buy from every ad network. Because of our micro-targeting capability, the CPMs we can charge our advertiser are quite a bit higher [than what networks can charge].
Q. So you're acting as an ad network yourselves.
A. Correct, but we don't want to replace existing ad networks we run on top of. We're not looking to buy directly from publishers. We're more interested in ad networks because they give us the best reach.
Q. Can you name any ad networks you're working with?
A. ValueClick would be a name.
Q. So why not share the names of ISPs you're working with?
A. Customers don't like their vendors talking about them. We are not going to be talking about our ISPs. They are going to be talking about their businesses. We do require them to tell their customers and provide an opt-out.
Q. How do they tell them?
A. They have different ways of doing it. Some say putting a notice in an invoice is the right way. Others believe sending an e-mail is the right way. For some of them, they have a privacy statement that completely covers what we're doing already. In their privacy statements they need to mention that their browsing activities are going to be monitored. P.S. I did a google search of Comcast's web site at comcast.com and there is no mention of nebuad or faireagle in any of their documents available to the public. -- Internet News My BLOG My Web Page | |
|  |  | | Re: Here is an interview with Nebuad's CEO I suspect Embarq is one ISP that is contracting with Nebuad. Here's a Wall Street Journal article that seems to imply it:
»online.wsj.com/public/article_pr···192.html
The relevant passage is:
"Both wireless and wireline Internet-access providers such as CenturyTel, Rochester Telecom Systems Inc. and Embarq Communications Inc., among others, have entered the advertising gold rush. And they've tapped Internet equipment companies like NebuAd, FrontPorch Inc., and Phorm Inc. to provide the gear to help them along."
And here is a section from Embarq's privacy policy:
"Preference Advertising. EMBARQ may use information such as the websites you visit or online searches that you conduct to deliver or facilitate the delivery of targeted advertisements. The delivery of these advertisements will be based on anonymous surfing behavior and will not include users' names, email addresses, telephone numbers, or any other Personally Identifiable Information.
You may choose to opt out of this preference advertising service. By opting out, you will continue to receive advertisements as normal; but these advertisements will be less relevant and less useful to you. If you would like to opt out, click here."
Opting out sets a cookie, so if you delete cookies periodically or use a different computer, you have to do this everytime. | |
|
 | | If this really takes off.... Expect web and current advertising firms to bite the bullet in increased CPU time so that everything is SSL encrypted and to restructure sites so that traffic analysis won't work. This would be a slow process ... about as slow as NebuAD uptake would likely be ... but these players, if they will spend the money have it in their power to ensure that ISPs remain providers of "dumb pipes".
Poisoning the well is seldom a good business strategy. | |
|  |  swhx7Premium join:2006-07-23 Elbonia | Re: If this really takes off.... This would be a good thing. However, it won't avert the invasion of privacy.
1. Most sites have no incentive to use SSL for anything other than financial transactions. They don't care about user privacy, and don't see the likes of Nebu-ad as a threat. Or if they think it's going to compete with their ads, they'll just contract with Nebuad instead of fighting it.
2. Even with an SSL connection, the addresses visited are visible to a device at the ISP.
I think the solution will have to come from legislation. | |
|  |  |  zincPremium join:2004-02-17 Kitchener, ON | Re: If this really takes off.... As for #2, they can tell what host you're contacting but not what pages you're accessing.
If I wanted to say, check my adsense revenue, I could hit »www.google.com/adsense and this device could tell I hit a Google web server, but not much more beyond that. That _is_ the whole point of SSL (and why some ISPs like Rogers just degrade all encrypted connections because they can't tell if it's legitimate or someone trying to bypass their torrent throttling). | |
|
 Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA | Another Reason ISPs Should be Dumb Pipes The more ISPs become interested in things like this and filters that use DPI the more consumers will realize that ISPs really should be dumb pipes. | |
|  |  BPremium,MVM join:2000-10-28 | Re: Another Reason ISPs Should be Dumb Pipes Yeah. What the hell on a pogo stick are these companies so afraid of? Bandwidth is (or sure as hell should be) a utility.
Does your natural gas supplier freak out and start "sniffing" (pun intended) your home to find usage patterns (stove v. hot water heater; wok cooking versus barbecue) because they're desperate to somehow twist more money out of their relationship with you?
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function | |
|  |  |  swhx7Premium join:2006-07-23 Elbonia | Re: Another Reason ISPs Should be Dumb Pipes said by B:Does your natural gas supplier freak out and start "sniffing" (pun intended) your home to find usage patterns (stove v. hot water heater; wok cooking versus barbecue) because they're desperate to somehow twist more money out of their relationship with you? They would if they could find a way, and weren't regulated as a public utility.
said by B:Bandwidth is (or sure as hell should be) a utility. Agreed. But the only way this can happen is legislation. There will be more and more abuses as long as ISPs are unregulated monopolies or oligopolies. | |
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 DogfatherPremium join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA | Ad injection is copyright infringement Ad injection changes the copyrighted content of web pages.
Hope Google and others sue them out of existence. | |
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 rradina join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO | Peformance anyone? If all our packets are deep inspected, does this in any way degrade the link performance? Hopefully this thing is off to the side and it's processing packets as if they were UDP. If it gets overloaded and misses a few, no harm done.
I'm sorry but I also don't trust that they will always limit themselves to non-porn, non-medical advertisements.
In truly competitive landscape this could be good. One would think that this revenue would offset operating costs and lower the consumer's cost of service. Oh yeah, I forgot. This almost never happens. Silly me...
Does anyone else think Orwell might actually end up being right? He just imagined it being video. | |
|  linicxCaveat EmptorPremium join:2002-12-03 United State | What happens if... What happens if I remove the Fair Eagle cookie? It's easy enough to do.. -- Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside | |
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