VoIP Safety Increases with Passing of E911 Law FCC no longer needs to check in with Congress to make similar changes As an increasing number of people are transitioning over to the use of VoIP services, there has been some concern about the lack of established 911 services available through VoIP. The situation has just improved since the Senate passed an E911 bill called The IP-Enabled Voice Communications and Public Safety Act. The bill requires that VoIP providers offer enhanced 911 services which will automatically transmit location information to 911 operators who take your VoIP emergency call. Additionally, this bill gives the FCC the power to mandate similar changes in 911 requirements as phone technology evolves without needing to go through Congress to make those changes. Although the bill has passed the Senate, it now needs approval from the House of representatives before it can become a reality.
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  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | The RED Phone Who's going to answer that RED PHONE at 3am?  | |
|  | | | Re: The RED Phone That's the one in Batman's house isn't it? If so, I'm betting Alfred will stay on top of things. | |
| |  furloniumComputer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA | said by pnh102:Who's going to answer that RED PHONE at 3am? Hopefully not a Democrat.
Hahah had to go there. | |
| |  tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | said by pnh102:Who's going to answer that RED PHONE at 3am? No one if it's on VoIP.  | |
| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: The RED Phone said by tc1uscg:said by pnh102:Who's going to answer that RED PHONE at 3am? No one if it's on VoIP. You owe me a new laptop.
I'm rolling here.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
| | | | tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | Re: The RED Phone said by pnh102:said by tc1uscg:said by pnh102:Who's going to answer that RED PHONE at 3am? No one if it's on VoIP. You owe me a new laptop. I'm rolling here. If Sunrocket was still operational, I would have used them in the punch line.  Just could never trust when they were up, or down. | |
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priller
join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA | "Offer" or Require???? "...requires that VoIP providers offer enhanced 911 services.."
There is a difference between offer and require. For example, I do have E911 service availability ... However, I also have VoIP providers purely for call termination with no need for E911. I certainly hope that I would not have to pay additional for mandated E911 service on each one. That's not thinking the issue through. | |
| | Reviews:
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·voip.ms
·MyPhoneCompany
| Re: "Offer" or Require???? said by priller:I also have VoIP providers purely for call termination with no need for E911. ... That's not thinking the issue through. So you're saying some of your tubes are one way? That doesn't seem right. I thought stuff could go both ways through those tubes. 
And since when did legislation require thinking the issue through?
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| | | priller
join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA | Re: "Offer" or Require???? said by ArgMeMatey:said by priller:I also have VoIP providers purely for call termination with no need for E911. ... That's not thinking the issue through. So you're saying some of your tubes are one way? That doesn't seem right. I thought stuff could go both ways through those tubes. Correct ... call termination only. No incoming calls. No number assigned. | |
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|  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
1 edit | said by priller:"...requires that VoIP providers offer enhanced 911 services.."There is a difference between offer and require. For example, I do have E911 service availability ... However, I also have VoIP providers purely for call termination with no need for E911. I certainly hope that I would not have to pay additional for mandated E911 service on each one. That's not thinking the issue through. The bill says impose and that sounds like being required to me:
»www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp···=summary
Amends the Wireless Communications and Public Safety Act of 1999 to impose on IP-enabled voice service providers engaged in interstate or foreign communication a requirement to provide 9-1-1 service, including enhanced 9-1-1 service, to its subscribers. And there may be fees involved. See the actual bill's summary:
»www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xp···=summary
Requires the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to issue regulations granting IP-enabled voice service providers right of access to 9-1-1 components that are necessary to provide 9-1-1 service, on the same rates, terms, and conditions that are provided to commercial mobile service providers. » www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex···s110-428SEC. 5. FEE ACCOUNTABILITY. To ensure efficiency, transparency, and accountability in the collection and expenditure of 9-1-1 fees, the Federal Communications Commission shall submit a report within 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, and annually thereafter, to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation and the House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce detailing the status in each State of the collection and distribution of 9-1-1 fees and include findings on the amount of revenues obligated or expended by each State or political subdivision thereof for any purpose other than the purpose for which any fee or charges are presented.
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | | | Re: "Offer" or Require???? Agree with non-techie people using VOIP they shouldn't have to worry if E911 works.
But, I think there should be an "opt-out" for those that sign a waiver that if they die due to no E911, no one is responsible but the dead or severely crippled user that didn't want E911. Now, if a VOIP company doesn't follow that requirement, they get fined $60,000 and can get sued. Fair compromise in my opinion.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl | |
| | | | | | Re: "Offer" or Require???? Down that line of reasoning all 911 services should be opt-out and on a pay-per-use basis.
"Thank you for dialing 911, this call will be $3.99 per minute, please enter you credit card information and you will be transferred to the next available (outsourced to India) representative, or stay on the line and a billing representative will be with you shortly to discuss other payment options. Thank you for choosing Pay-Per-Use 911 services."
I think it is better all phone users share the cost of providing E911, even if some individuals are lucky enough never to have to use it.
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| | | | | Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest
·voip.ms
·MyPhoneCompany
| Re: "Offer" or Require???? said by Dezbend:Down that line of reasoning all 911 services should be opt-out and on a pay-per-use basis. ... I think it is better all phone users share the cost of providing E911 ... What if we think about this in terms of cheap technology being extended to the little guy? For example back in the day the big company would order a local T1 from the LEC or CLEC, and a long distance T1 from MCI, Sprint, AT&T, TCG. Maybe they still do. I don't know. Anyway, the company's PBX call routing would never direct a 911 call to the long distance T1, so why pay 911 charges on that long distance or special service trunk?
Why can't VoIP be thought of in the same way? I agree that the average end user shouldn't be expected to configure anything, but a small business or home business should be able to reap economic and technological benefits just like The Man has been doing for years, without options being restricted based on the perception of danger and liability.
An analogous compromise would be for the BYOD users to be considered "on their own", whereas a transport provider that also supplied ATAs and IP Phones would have to provide E911.
Translation: With my SPA-3000, I use VoIP for incoming calls and outgoing long distance calls, but I use POTS for local and 911. I pay $5 a month for VoIP, plus $1.50 a month for VoIP E911. That amounts to a 30% surcharge for a service I will never use, and which is available through other, generally more reliable means anyway.
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approval from:
Tweak 
| Got fire? Yep, thanks to all the idiots who started using a service designed to provide free or cheap long-distance "telephone" calls and decided to drop their local telco phone service to save money and never bothered to notice that, hey, VoIP wasn't intended to support 911 calls... duh.
Fast-forward a decade to the present... So, how will you tell VoIP from telco service now? same price, same taxes, fees, and surcharges... oh, yeah, one requires broadband.
Ultimately, your phone bill will always cost more than it should and the govt. will continue to take a big bite.
Oh, yeah, I feel so much more safe now. | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Another opportunity to track your every move. Yep GPS or cellphone location address verification. If it gets no signal within the last 7-60 days it will lock you out and u have take the ATA outdoors and plug it into a outlet outside. | |
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| | ILEC lock-out And does this law make it possible for VoIP providers to do this E911 stuff, or does it let the ILECs use their various monopoly powers to make it impossible for providers to do it.? | |
|  Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
| Location, location, location quote:
The bill requires that VoIP providers offer enhanced 911 services which will automatically transmit location information to 911 operators who take your VoIP emergency call.
Is that even possible for some VoIP providers. For providers like Comcast or Verizon, where the service is limited to one location, this is easy. For something like Vonage, where you can take your "phone" anywhere in the world, how in the world are they supposed to know where you are?
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | gbh2o
join:2000-12-18
Greenville, NC Reviews:
·Future Nine Corp..
·VOIPo
·callwithus
·MyPhoneCompany
| Re: Location, location, location said by Morac:Is that even possible for some VoIP providers. For providers like Comcast or Verizon, where the service is limited to one location, this is easy. For something like Vonage, where you can take your "phone" anywhere in the world, how in the world are they supposed to know where you are? They'll get the GPS information from the individual's government mandated personal anti-terror RFID chip by bluetooth to the ATA in use. |:) | |
| | | Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| Re: Location, location, location VOIP provides will need to transmit location information just like cell phone companies. The only real solution is to start including GPS functionality into VOIP enabled devices. That way, no matter your location, they will know exactly where you are calling from.
After all, who would ever update their location each time they take a trip to grandma's house for the weekend? | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by gbh2o:said by Morac:Is that even possible for some VoIP providers. For providers like Comcast or Verizon, where the service is limited to one location, this is easy. For something like Vonage, where you can take your "phone" anywhere in the world, how in the world are they supposed to know where you are? They'll get the GPS information from the individual's government mandated personal anti-terror RFID chip by bluetooth to the ATA in use. |:) All the phones will have a barcode scanner and you have to scan the barcode on your forehead before you can make a phone call. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Something tells me VOIP providers will lobby for all ISPs to have a realtime IP-to-street-address database that 911 can query at any time, so all the VOIP provider has to give is the IP and then the IP-to-street address system will return a address to 911. Hey, the information is already always available with a supeona, why not make it real time? cue the privacy people | |
| | |  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Location, location, location VOIP providers don't have money to lobby. They're too busy defending themselves from patent infringement suits and keeping their networks afloat on a wing and a prayer. | |
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| | | said by Morac: quote:
The bill requires that VoIP providers offer enhanced 911 services which will automatically transmit location information to 911 operators who take your VoIP emergency call.
Is that even possible for some VoIP providers. For providers like Comcast or Verizon, where the service is limited to one location, this is easy. For something like Vonage, where you can take your "phone" anywhere in the world, how in the world are they supposed to know where you are? If you weren't home, and you took your adapter with you...why on earth would you be dialing 911 from your TA? Use a local or cell phone. And in most parts of the world, 911 is NOT the emergency number. | |
| | | Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Location, location, location said by jmallory:If you weren't home, and you took your adapter with you...why on earth would you be dialing 911 from your TA? Use a local or cell phone. And in most parts of the world, 911 is NOT the emergency number. Whether or not it makes sense to dial 9-1-1 from the adapter isn't the issue. The point is that if this bill becomes law and you dial 9-1-1 using a VoIP adapter, it has to, by law, report your location. My point is that that is not physically possible currently.
As for why, sometimes a local phone isn't available and cell phones have their own problems with 9-1-1 and location. | |
| | | |  SNTPremium
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL
1 edit | Re: Location, location, location My 18 month old son was playing with my phone and somehow dialed 911 and hung up.
Less than 5 minutes later there was a deputy at my door responding to the 911 call. There is no way that my 18 month old could have relayed the address to the operator. The deputy said that they will investigate even if all you do is dial 911 then hang up. So it appears the the location is indeed somehow transmitted.
Forgot to mention that I use Vonage and have since 2003.
-SNT | |
| | | | | | | Re: Location, location, location That's because vonage is a responsable company and includes your location based info in the call that's made based either on your bill or the information that's provided.
I think the bill was more to hold all voip providers to the same standard, and to make sure that there is the legal backbone to require it. Prior to the bill Vonage wouldn't be required to get all their ducks in a row for the 911 service they provide. They do it now, but they were not required to do so. It was merely a feature. | |
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rrfrey
join:2005-03-26
Greenville, SC |  watch out
When Callvantage implemented E911 they were forced to drop customers in many situations. IOW, if your locale doesn't have E911, then you can't have Voip. I'm still registered at my old address because I've moved and the new address doesn't have E911 (or whatever compatible 911 that AT&T requires). | |
| Reviews:
·Windstream
| Knock knock... I've had MagicJack for months now. They've had 911 service for some time. The closest number that they could give me was a Dallas suburb- that's 175 miles from here, or so. But that's okay because so many people are using cellphones now they are used to seeing strange prefixes.
But they store my real address so if I picked up and called 911 my real address is what the 911 operator sees. Any Voip company who tells you it can't be done is tellin' a big one. 
»www.magicjack.com
Save some money! I did!
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You're an American. You get a free pass, but nobody rides for free. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·Windstream
| Re: Knock knock... said by r81984:I have always been curious about magic jack, but it seems too good to be true. Can you get incoming calls with magic jack? Also, do they offer a stand alone ata that you can connect all your phones to? Yes it works just like they say it does. Unlimited calls both ways- local and long distance. Voice quality is excellent. Yes there is a way to connect all your phones to it but I haven't done it since the phone that is plugged into it is a cordless. The only difference between MJ in everyday use that you notice is that the PC it is plugged into has to up and logged-on for the MJ to work- just like your internet. But my main system stays on 24/7 anyway so that's no big deal for me. It's WELL WORTH IT for the simple fact that I don't have a monthly phone bill anymore.
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You're an American. You get a free pass, but nobody rides for free. | |
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 bencPremium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter
| How Would This Work? Unlike POTS, one can take their ATA and phone to another location.
Let's be hypothetical:
1) John Q. Public lives in Madison, CT. He decides to vacation in Orlando, FL. He also has a VOIP line.
2) In Florida, his hotel has broadband Internet access. Because of this, he decides that he will bring an ATA and a phone with him.
3) John has a very young son. His son, by accident, breaks the hotel room phone. Fortunately, his VOIP ATA and phone is still intact.
4) The s**t hits the fan. His son fell off the hotel room balcony, and now his son is in critical condition. It happened at 3AM so no one else was awake to notice. Just John. John uses his VOIP ATA and phone to call 911.
What happens here? Is it:
A) He's connected to the dispatcher for Madison, CT. An ambulance goes to his home, the paramedics run out back, and notice that at his home his son didn't fall off the balcony? (Because his son fell off the hotel balcony).
Or is it:
B) He's connected to the Orlando dispatcher. They send an ambulance to John's hotel, and his son lives.
Now let's suppose something almost completely different.
Next year, John decides he doesn't want to vacation in Orlando. He decides that he wants to vacation in Budapest. Again, his hotel there has broadband Internet access.
He decides to bring along his VOIP ATA and a phone.
What would happen then if he called 911 from the VOIP phone while he's in Budapest? | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
 wruckman Ruckman.net
join:2007-10-25
Northwood, OH | Law? The last thing we need is more laws because people are "Concerned". What a bunch of bull! | |
| | | Oh Get Off It I'm guessing none of you have anything to do with Emergency Services in your area. So, since I do, I'll help.
1) You call 911.
2) Level 1 dispatcher on the other end: "911, what's your emergency?"
3) You tell them.
4) They confirm your address
5) They forward you to the Level 2 at the proper agency.
In the case of a hangup, depending on the jurisdiction, best practice is to either send Dudes With Guns or call back. Generally Dudes With Guns are sent.
So regardless of where you are, they check your address. In cases where your 911 call gets routed to the wrong center (which is not uncommon), it does not take long for them to reroute you.
I've got VOIP, and have had it for a long time with various carriers. Despite the fact that I AM 911, I have also had to call 911. Enhanced 911 is one of those niceties that assists in a tiny minority of cases, and in my opinion is just not worth the money.
Hey, all of you E911 advocates - do you want Skype to be force-fed this diet as well? | |
| | | Who No Longer Needs to Check What Now?!?!? | |
| Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Great, more taxes and surcharges? Great, will they charge the rest of us for this as the E911 tax #2? Perhaps they will find a way to extort $5.00 a month per telephone line in addition to the already growing list of bogus charges!
I say, make Vonage & any other VoIP carrier pay for the deployment of any mandatory E911 services, not the regular telco users!! | |
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