dslreports logo
Despite Piracy, NIN Experiment Still Nets $750,000
Deluxe edition sells out despite rabid trading of Ghosts album

As we mentioned Monday, Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the bands latest album, Ghosts, for free via BitTorrent. He's also selling the whole album, DRM free, for $5 via the band's website. On one side, while the Torrent trackers are jam-packed with people trading the album in all version qualities, the band also says they've sold all 2,500 copies of the deluxe edition of the album.

At $300 a pop, Reznor pulled in $750,000 in two days -- despite rabid "pirated" distribution of the album. While a common refrain is something to the effect of "yeah, but this only works with mega-bands," Techdirt argues there's no reason smaller bands can't take advantage of the same business model to become bigger acts:
quote:
Now, before some people start complaining that this will only work for big name bands, there's an easy response to that: these days, the way to become a big band is to get your music out there. Newer bands can easily give away music as a promotion to get attention, build up a following, and throw in these types of options as they get bigger. Besides, smaller, less-well-known acts still have plenty of other offerings they can use to make money, even as a smaller band.
With the real money these days being in touring and merchandising, smart artists are using the music as a promotional tool to promote the artist brand instead of the commodity itself. The labels may not like this because it turns their previous cash-cow business model on its head (and they don't profit as much from touring and merchandising), but if broadband music piracy cannot be stopped, it's not like they'll have much of a choice.
view:
topics flat nest 
page: 1 · 2 · next

p92389
@verizon.net

p92389

Anon

Wow...

"With the real money these days being in touring and merchandising, smart artists are using the music as a promotional tool to promote the artist brand instead of the commodity itself."

...just like the ol' days.

idjk
@sprintlink.net

idjk

Anon

Re: Wow...

I saw something on tv the other day about 'Bare naked ladies' ? band that had gone solo and were making more money and drawing more fans without the big publishing firm they had.

batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium Member
join:2003-01-25

1 recommendation

batageek

Premium Member

I paid the 5 bucks

5 bucks for 36 songs in a zip?

A little slow on the download yesterday, but a deal anyway you look at it...and Adrian Belew too.

Go Trent!
robertg1234
join:2004-04-19
Palo Alto, CA

1 edit

robertg1234

Member

Re: I paid the 5 bucks

said by batageek:

...and Adrian Belew too.
Adrian Belew is still alive??? And I though watching Grace Slick sing White Rabbit at Woodstock made me feel old! Knowing Adrian is still around makes me feel waaay too old now.

I still remember his Big Electric Cat video all but too well!

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-20
La La Land

2 edits

JRW2

Premium Member

I'd pay.

If I liked the group, I would pay for the download.
Why wouldn't I, at $5, its a steal compared to buying the CD from the record company! (At three times the price!)
And I bet you the "group" is seeing more money this way than from the royalties they get from the record companies..
bjack4
join:2006-01-30
Reading, MA

bjack4

Member

Nobody pays for music

Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free, unless they are huge fans and want the extra bonus stuff like NIN was selling to try to get some money. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT NIN IS DOING IS RIPPING OFF THEIR HARD CORE FANS TO GET SOME MONEY WHILE GIVING IT AWAY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE CASUAL LISTENERS!???!?!?!??

Great job Trent - nice way to treat your fans???

What about these issues:

A. So if you give away your music, then you have absolutely no money to start planning and promoting a tour.

B. People say that you get money from touring. Okay, so what is you suck live, as many bands do, or are unable to really set up a profitable tour due to the fact that it's not always easy to do unless you get a proven following who is willing to pay.
Dissonance
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY

Dissonance

Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

He really only gave away part 1.
He sold all 4 parts for $5. I bought a copy because I'm a fan and it was a great price.

Look, people who steal music are gonna steal music (unless they get sued for a million bucks). But fans who want to support the artist so that they will continue to make music for them to enjoy will take advantage of this medium.

Meanwhile, trent is STILL making more money than he was making through the label because he cut out the middle man (who take like 90% of the profit). WIN WIN!

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Wasilla, AK

Boogeyman to bjack4

Premium Member

to bjack4
If you notice, most of the bands that suck live are the cookie cutter pop bands that the studios push out.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned) to bjack4

Member

to bjack4
said by bjack4:

Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free
Then they are cheap and need to ask the manager at Burger King for a raise. Seriously artists have a right to SOME compensation. WTF is wrong with people? If Amazon reduced it's price of DRM free MP3s to 19¢, people would still find an excuse to steal. Frankly if you don't think a song you are going to listen to hundreds maybe even thousands of times over the years is worth 99¢ then it's not really worth owning in the first place.

This whole "The music sucks so it should be free." line I hear from some people doesn't even make sense. If something sucks why do you even want it even if it's free? If I gave you a dog crap sandwich would you eat it just because it was free?

MIRV
join:2000-12-01
Louisville, KY

MIRV

Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free?

fractalman93
Me imaginative? Imagine that
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Newport News, VA

fractalman93

Premium Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

To show your @%$#ing support for the musicians!!

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl

Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

said by fractalman93:

To show your @%$#ing support for the musicians!!
There's @%$#ing support for the musicians!! I thought groupies didn't care how good there were.
bigskank
join:2002-06-07
Norman, OK

bigskank to MIRV

Member

to MIRV
said by MIRV:

It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free?
Makes perfect since. That's why the bottled water market is doing so badly. I mean, who would pay $3.00 for something they can turn on their tap and get for next to nothing.

Oh, wait...

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium Member
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

Tzale

Premium Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

said by bigskank:

said by MIRV:

It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free?
Makes perfect since. That's why the bottled water market is doing so badly. I mean, who would pay $3.00 for something they can turn on their tap and get for next to nothing.

Oh, wait...
You can buy bottled water for $0.05 if you buy it in 24-36 pack cases... And clearly SPRING water IS superior in taste to tap water which has a chlorine taste to it. Not all bottled water is spring water.

-Tzale

Water
@oshean.org

Water

Anon

Re: Nobody pays for music

And not all tap water is chlorinated or city water.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium Member
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

Tzale

Premium Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

said by Water :

And not all tap water is chlorinated or city water.
Well I'm talking from my perspective and most people's perspectives who can't stand the taste of tap water... If you get your water from a well, then maybe it isn't... But that is an exception, and even then there might be a distinct mineral taste. And not to mention sometimes bottled water is just "convenient."

-Tzale
GPSrob
join:2007-05-21

GPSrob to MIRV

Member

to MIRV
Because you obviously don't get the same thing.

Buying it indicates that it has value to you and in participating in the trade of money for goods you know you're contributing to the welfare of the person that made something you enjoy. Particularly in this direct method when 100% of the revenue hits the original artist who then pays his costs of business as opposed to the other way around when the artist gets paid last and mostly screwed which is actually a disincentive to buy it in the traditional method.

C_9084
Kill The Socialists
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19

C_9084 to MIRV

Premium Member

to MIRV
said by MIRV:

It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free?
500,000 of that was most likely trent buying his own crap under a guise
maxpower90
join:2006-10-09
Providence, RI

maxpower90

Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

quote:
500,000 of that was most likely trent buying his own crap under a guise
Proof?

Armaina
Not every saint is a fool
Premium Member
join:2002-11-06
Tempe, AZ

Armaina to C_9084

Premium Member

to C_9084
said by ,000 of that was most likely trent buying his own crap under a guise
[/BQUOTE :


And what exactly would be the point of that?

Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA

Thaler

Premium Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

said by Armaina:

And what exactly would be the point of that?
e-Peen contests, duh.

Honestly, no...I can't even really make up a good reason why he'd inflate his own figures.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium Member
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

Tzale to MIRV

Premium Member

to MIRV
said by MIRV:

It's just economics. Why would you pay for something you can get for free?
Why?

Because it's the moral thing to do... Obviously you weren't around or don't remember the ORIGINAL reason for the P2P Revolution.... People were pissed at the record companies charging $20 for a CD full of 90% filler music.

Charging a little amount of money is only fair... And don't pull that BS that they're going to make millions even at a small amount... They deserve it then. We live in a free country, and it's the morally right thing to do... If you can't afford it truly, then maybe I'll side with you... But just saying that there is NO reason to purchase something even at a very fair price is simply STEALING...

-Tzale
rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT

rahvin112 to MIRV

Member

to MIRV
Because of morals and knowing that you aren't entitled to the work of others for free.

Although you might not have any morals and your friends might not either, there are a significant number of people in this country that are honest and want to pay a fair price for their entertainment. Maybe when you are a little older you will understand that if no one pays anyone else for their work there is NO economy. Every exchange of money creates jobs and if everyone was like you there would be no jobs.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Metronet

CylonRed to MIRV

MVM

to MIRV
I could probably get most, if not all, of the songs I want for free if I want mp3 (which I don't really want) but I still buy cd's - not a ton but when someone wants to get me a gift then I ask for money for music.

I don't like current music so most of the stuff I buy is older (classic/progressive rock) - guys who wrote the vast majority of their songs (music and lyrics). I have no issues with buying CD's - although I would have no issues with buying the CD directly from the band.

I know many others who prefer cd's as well - they have huge collections and most could probably be gotten for free.

fractalman93
Me imaginative? Imagine that
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Newport News, VA

fractalman93 to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
I agree. Although I know plenty of casual listeners out there who could probably care less about downloading (much less perchasing) an entire album when they only like one song, I am not of that type. I know what I like and I like what I know. Furthermore, I am willing to pay for it because I am more band and album oriented than 80% of the population. Do I download stuff for free? Sure. But I also support musicians I like by both purchasing their albums and often spreading the word that they are great musicians.

If there are 2 bands on this planet that deserve much more publicity and support than they have ever received, it's Saga and Simple Minds. Both bands have been around since the 70's. Both have more talent than many of their contemporaries --and much more talent than 99% of today's bands. Yet, they have been slighted by their labels and media congolerates such as Clear Channel alike.

Check them out:

Simple Minds

Saga

Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA

Thaler to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

This whole "The music sucks so it should be free." line I hear from some people doesn't even make sense.
*shrugs* The line with me is "the music sucks, so I don't buy it". I may P2P to determine the rate/amount of suck, but in the end, if the music sucks out loud, it all gets thrown off my players, computer, everything.

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

1 recommendation

Pirate515 to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

If Amazon reduced its price of DRM-free MP3s to 19¢, people would still find an excuse to steal.
True, but IMO the number of people stealing at that price will drammatically increase while the number of people buying music legitimately will increase.

There is a category of people out there who refuse to pay for anything no matter how cheap it is. This is not the category that the music industry should be focusing on. Even if RIAA manages to shut down all the channels via which these people steal, what have they really accomplished for the artists? IMO absolutely nothing. If these people can no longer steal, it doesn't mean that they will go out and start buying music instead. They will simply do without. So RIAA would have simply wasted their time, efforts and money while giving their members absolutely nothing in return.

Another group are hardcore fans. These guys will pretty much buy everything their favorite band(s) put(s) out, no matter how much the cost. No need to focus on these either, as you will be preaching to the choir.

On the other hand, let's focus on the working class category. These are the people who have some money to spend on entertainment and some free time on their hands. Now, if the music they want costs an arm and a leg and comes with restrictions, for some it might be worth the time, efforts and risks associated with trying to steal it. However, lower the price to a reasonable level, and trying to steal it becomes pointless for many. If for a small amount of money you can get the real deal, not have to worry about getting caught and use your time for something more interesting, than why bother stealing it? That is the group that I think the music industry should be focusing on. Again, you can't totally rid the world of piracy, but you can minimize to the point that it becomes insignificant.

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0

Premium Member

Re: Nobody pays for music

Except we're talking about RIAA. and you're assuming anyone there has any common sense.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium Member
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

Tzale to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by bjack4:

Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free
Then they are cheap and need to ask the manager at Burger King for a raise. Seriously artists have a right to SOME compensation. WTF is wrong with people? If Amazon reduced it's price of DRM free MP3s to 19¢, people would still find an excuse to steal. Frankly if you don't think a song you are going to listen to hundreds maybe even thousands of times over the years is worth 99¢ then it's not really worth owning in the first place.

This whole "The music sucks so it should be free." line I hear from some people doesn't even make sense. If something sucks why do you even want it even if it's free? If I gave you a dog crap sandwich would you eat it just because it was free?
Well said... And I'm behind the P2P Revolution, when there is an ARGUMENT to be behind it... When groups set their prices low like this, then obviously I'm not going to side with some loser who thinks everything should be free!

They're the same people who think that me sitting down and coding an application in C++ for a year or two isn't worth $19.99!

-Tzale
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned) to bjack4

Member

to bjack4
NIN didn't rip off their fans, the fans that stole the music did.

Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium Member
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

Tzale to bjack4

Premium Member

to bjack4
said by bjack4:

Please, i don't know of any friend that has paid for music if they can get it for free, unless they are huge fans and want the extra bonus stuff like NIN was selling to try to get some money. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT NIN IS DOING IS RIPPING OFF THEIR HARD CORE FANS TO GET SOME MONEY WHILE GIVING IT AWAY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE CASUAL LISTENERS!???!?!?!??

Great job Trent - nice way to treat your fans???

What about these issues:

A. So if you give away your music, then you have absolutely no money to start planning and promoting a tour.

B. People say that you get money from touring. Okay, so what is you suck live, as many bands do, or are unable to really set up a profitable tour due to the fact that it's not always easy to do unless you get a proven following who is willing to pay.
Oh come on... The main argument behind music piracy is that the cost of a CD is outrageous for what you get ($20 for 1-3 "good" songs and the rest filler)... This is what fed the P2P Revolution a few years ago... With deals like these $5 for a CD, that argument no longer holds true.. They have to charge money ya' know, it's only fair... Would I pay? Maybe if I really liked the artist, but since I'm a poor student, I could use my money in other ways.

-Tzale

DHRacer
Tech Monkey
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA

DHRacer

Member

Two sides to this

"As we mentioned Monday, Nine Inch Nails frontman Trent Reznor is giving away the first nine songs of the bands latest album, Ghosts, for free via BitTorrent. He's also selling the whole album, DRM free, for $5 via the band's website. On one side, while the Torrent trackers are jam-packed with people trading the album in all version qualities, the band also says they've sold all 2,500 copies of the deluxe edition of the album."

So,the first 9 songs are free, and the whole album is only $5, yet BitTorrent is packed with people who decided that free or $5 that goes entirely to the band and not any mafIAA organization is still too much to pay?

I'm confused. I though the above is precisely what all who pirate pine for yet once they get that, they still continue to pirate? I must be missing something.

••••

TuPaK
join:2002-07-21
Burke, VA

TuPaK

Member

So who invited Trent Reznor to Oink?


pickle
@astound.net

pickle

Anon

flac

I paid the $5 and downloaded the flac version. Its nice to see bands use a lossless format.

brett_
Premium Member
join:2000-07-22
Lombard, IL

brett_

Premium Member

Re: flac

FLAC? I'm there. That was my issue with Radiohead's offer, the MP3s offered were at a low bit rate. I ended up buying the In Rainbows on CD just for that reason.

XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

XBL2009

Member

Cut out the middle man

Good for him, this is the way it should be, cut out the middle man and sell directly to the public.
BigVe
join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI

BigVe

Member

Re: Cut out the middle man

Can you see what would happen if most artists would do like Trent?? Answer: No more RIAA

Bagnon
Snoogans
join:2000-11-19
Hamilton, ON

Bagnon

Member

The future.

3/4 mill? Nice paycheck. I'm sure it will scale to over a million easy. Good for NIN. This is exactly how it should be. I'd really like to know how Radiohead did with their free/pay album.

TI POIL
join:2006-03-05
Toronto, ON

1 edit

TI POIL

Member

bye bye RIAA :)

$750,000 in two days
Is that number right?

If this is the case I hope all artists of any level will follow that business model.

I can't wait to see those gangsters losing all their jobs, waiting in line at the unemployment office LOL.

Soon I hope, it's called karma

RIAA, CRIA, MPAA R.I.P 2008

Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

Millenniumle

Member

...

I wonder if movie producers could find a model like this, but would make the kind of money necessary to cover the sometimes multi-hundred million dollar production costs. I'd hate to see the movie industry reduced to low-budget B movies.

•••

Ovrclck
join:2000-12-13
Lubbock, TX

Ovrclck

Member

right on!

I think that's awesome what Trent did. He netted $750k by ONLY selling the 2500 limited edition sets which doesn't include the 5,10,75 buck d/l.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four

Premium Member

That's $750,000 a major label won't be seeing

And that's a good thing.

For if he had decided to go with a major label contract
instead of release his music in the way that he did, the
label would have taken much of that $750,000 for themselves.
trickyx2
join:2004-11-18
Sterling, IL

trickyx2

Member

WTG Trent!

I personally bought the $10 one so I could have a hard copy, this is the first CD I've bought in a while. The though did cross my mind to pirate the whole thing, but I figured, Trent was willing to cut a good deal, so why not take it.

So in all 16.99(10+6.99 ship) well spent

Illiniwek7
Go Illini
join:2002-08-19
Draper, UT

Illiniwek7

Member

Trent's got the idea!

I'd guess that the sales of the "ultra-deluxe" package alone will cover most of his production costs for the entire album (since he does almost all of the work himself). The 5/10/75 dollar options will be pure profit. Digital distribution costs him next to nothing, and he's adding $6.99 to the physical deliveries... enough to cover the cost of the media and shipping.

If he unloads a million units he's seeing revenue of at least $5M, and probably much more with the upgraded versions. That's mostly profit, and not one cent to a record company.

How many albums would he have to sell under regular distribution methods through a record company to net $5M?

I think the genius is getting the music out there cheaply and making money on "upgrades" and touring. BTW, if you've never seen a NIN show, it is WELL worth the price of admission.

Ahpuch
@verizon.net

Ahpuch

Anon

Money to the Artists

When Tupac Shakur died, his holdings in his estate were about $200,000. But, to this day the Labels are still making money off his works, New remixed album here, new cut and missing tracks there... Never ends. He made what 3 real albums but has like 10 published. His estate, now don't quote me I don't know for sure, has probably not seen anything from those other 7 or so albums that were released posthumously. Kudos to Trent (local boy and all) Hope others will follow. That's a bands dream anyway is it not. Touring and selling Tee's with their likeness to everybody anyway. How much did the Stones make off their Wheels of Steel tour, like 145 million or so.
madrhino
join:2004-07-03

madrhino

Member

Re: Money to the Artists

said by Ahpuch :

When Tupac Shakur died, his holdings in his estate were about $200,000.
Even the most devout fanatic can't call any of that crap music.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

1 edit

TheMG

Premium Member

The way of the future.

Sooner or later, the record industry will have to drop their current (outdated) business model, or suffer inevitable doom.

This hit the nail on the head right there (no pun intended):

The labels may not like this because it turns their previous cash-cow business model on its head (and they don't profit as much from touring and merchandising), but if broadband music piracy cannot be stopped, it's not like they'll have much of a choice.

ARGONAUT
Have a nice day.
Premium Member
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN

ARGONAUT

Premium Member

"Turn Up The Torrent"

Torrent is the new radio!

NIN would have never got this played on any public broadcasting radio station. Torrent proves that if the public has a chance to hear something other than a list the public will buy it.

Ultimately the actions of the RIAA work against artists and the music industry.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Hard Time

I am having a hard time (at 1AM) even accessing the NIN site.

•••

cheapbastid9
@dslextreme.com

cheapbastid9

Anon

If downloaders

complain that they can't afford to pay a buck for a download, how is it they can afford the broadband connection or that computer connected to it?
BigMattock
join:2003-02-01
Woodruff, SC

BigMattock

Member

Re: If downloaders

Because they are stealing bandwidth from their neighbor's wireless AP.
page: 1 · 2 · next