dslreports logo
 story category
Piracy Puts People in Prison
Copyright infringement doesn't pay
A pair of brothers have recently been sentenced to multiple years in prison as a result of their online sales of pirated software. They sold software through online sites valued at a total of over $6 million. Together, they made about $1 million in profit which they are required to forfeit as a result of their copyright infringement convictions.
quote:
"’People who steal the intellectual property of others for their personal financial gain, while defrauding consumers who think they are buying legitimate products, will be punished for their crimes, as today's sentences prove,’ Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher said in a statement."
Two additional defendants who conspired with the brothers were also sentenced to prison in an earlier case.
view:
topics flat nest 

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium Member
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD

newview

Premium Member

Dual Identity

These software pirates are usually also spammers. I have no problem with seeing spammers go to jail.

Leem
join:2003-11-01
Nanticoke, PA

Leem

Member

Re: Dual Identity

Not just 'spammers' there also usually scammers too, which are far worse.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense when the gov't wants to bother to prosecute it.
»news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld ··· d/143252
On Nov. 7, Maurice Robberson pled guilty to conspiracy and felony copyright infringement, while Thomas Robberson pled guilty to a single count of felony copyright infringement.
It isn't just a civil offense as many people think.
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by FFH5:

Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense when the gov't wants to bother to prosecute it.
Probably what makes this different is that these guys didn't just copy for the personal use, or give copies away for free to friends (or anyone who connected to their machine). They were counterfeiting, selling it as real retail versions, and confusing the public.

Maybe people should know that Photoshop for $20 isn't legitimate. But, it still seems different to me. It's amazing they thought they could be so public and get away with it (when people quietly letting strangers grab copies for free via P2P are being discovered).

Mark

james16
join:2001-02-26

1 edit

1 recommendation

james16 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Actually, the definition for them to pursue criminal charges it must be "willful and for monetary gain".

*edit* correction, in the U.S. you are guilty of a felony if you even download a single song, movie or program without the consent of the copyright owner. As Yakov Smirnoff would say: "what a country!"

On a side note, I think this is the first time I've seen the term software "pirate" applied to actual software pirates. Free distribution isn't piracy, piracy is when people sell copies for money and take actual sales away from the owner.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by james16:

Free distribution isn't piracy, piracy is when people sell copies for money and take actual sales away from the owner.
If I give out a million version of some piece of software for FREE instead I'm not taking away actual sales away from the owner? I beg to differ.

And to say "well those people never would have bought that real thing anyways" isn't an exucse. You could use that to justify any theft. People that spend their hard earned money on software have to pay and people too cheap to pay get it for FREE and somehow there is nothing wrong with this? Of course there is. If something is not worth paying for then it's not worth having then, now is it?
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

The difference is you are certain that someone had the money if they paid for it... when I was in high school/college I knew plenty of downloaders, now that everyone I know has money, nobody pirates
81399672 (banned)
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

81399672 (banned)

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by axus:

The difference is you are certain that someone had the money if they paid for it... when I was in high school/college I knew plenty of downloaders, now that everyone I know has money, nobody pirates
Are you sure no one pirates? You might think they don't pirate but they like do. If you know what you're doing, their is no reason of why you would not continue doing it.

james16
join:2001-02-26

james16

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

Interestingly, I've found that since I've had more money, and Steam and my Wii allow me to instantly get any game I want without leaving the couch, my downloading of "warez" has dropped severely. I've even bought games that I downloaded back in the old days, like doom 3, deus ex, super mario, and many more.

In order for people to want to pay for something, it has to be easier to pay than to download it for free. It's especially hurtful for the companies when their copy protection limits the people who actually purchase their music (as an example), while those who download the mp3s are getting a superior product for free.
averagedude
join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA

2 edits

1 recommendation

averagedude

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by james1 :

In order for people to want to pay for something, it has to be easier to pay than to download it for free. It's especially hurtful for the companies when their copy protection limits the people who actually purchase their music (as an example), while those who download the mp3s are getting a superior product for free.

And that is human nature/behavior that many companies fail to understand.

james16
join:2001-02-26

james16 to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

If I give out a million version of some piece of software for FREE instead I'm not taking away actual sales away from the owner? I beg to differ.
Most of my point was that it isnt accurate to call it Piracy, which used to imply that profit was being made.

If someone pays for pirated software it's 100% verifiable that it's a lost sale to the company. Downloading for free, on the other hand, wouldn't be 100% lost sales, and could in fact boost revenue in some situations (ie Photoshop).
81399672 (banned)
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

81399672 (banned) to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
here is big differences that you seem not never understand. They were selling pirated stuff as such as that is illegal and as you correctly posted will put you in jail. Downloading pirate software is not against any criminal law and such will not put you in jail. Technically it's not even illegal to download pirated stuff and not illegal to upload it as that is the only people riaa ever goes after. Sorry tk junk mail i know you really try to scare people but it's not working

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by 81399672:

here is big differences that you seem not never understand. They were selling pirated stuff as such as that is illegal and as you correctly posted will put you in jail. Downloading pirate software is not against any criminal law and such will not put you in jail. Technically it's not even illegal to download pirated stuff and not illegal to upload it as that is the only people riaa ever goes after. Sorry tk junk mail i know you really try to scare people but it's not working
Wrong!!

»www.unc.edu/~unclng/copy ··· er66.htm
There are four essential elements required to prove felony copyright infringement: (1) that a registered copyright exists, (2) that the defendant infringed by reproduction or distribution of the copyrighted work, (3) that the defendant acted willfully and (4) that the works infringed were at least 10 copies of one or more copyrighted works with a total value of $2,500 within a 180-day period. Willfulness continues to be a very illusive concept, but the statute provides no definition.
»www.usdoj.gov/criminal/c ··· 01_5.htm
Until recently, the prosecution was required to prove that copyright infringement was done willfully and for commercial advantage or private financial gain. Now the law provides for prosecution in the absence of these monetary considerations. Specifically, the current statute, as codified at 17 U.S.C. § 506(a)(2), allows for prosecution in cases involving large scale illegal reproduction or distribution of copyrighted works where the infringers act willfully, but without a discernible profit motive.

Cases alleging illegal distribution of copyrighted materials without commercial gain have been charged all over the country. In August 1999, the first person was convicted for illegally posting computer software programs, musical recordings, and digitally-recorded movies on his Web site, and allowing the general public to download and copy these products free of charge. The Oregon defendant pleaded guilty to a felony.

Prosecutors should not hesitate to utilize this avenue of enforcement. In many cases the damage to the victim may be enormous although the infringer is not profiting financially. In fact, because the copyrighted materials are provided without charge to the entire Internet-using public, the demand for the infringing goods provided for free may increase dramatically and result in great potential loss to the rights holder.
»www.cybercrime.gov/thoma ··· Plea.htm
»www.cybercrime.gov/mccau ··· Plea.htm
81399672 (banned)
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

1 recommendation

81399672 (banned)

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

Sorry mistyped. i meant to say it's not illegal to download it and only illegal to upload it. You can't post any example of anyone being criminally convicted for just downloading pirated stuff and not selling it
Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA

2 edits

Devistater

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

I thought there might be a case but I didn't see it so guess not.
Expand your moderator at work

anon97312y5
@pacbell.net

anon97312y5 to Devistater

Anon

to Devistater

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

Its not nessasary to do either. The way a new law is written, even the PRESENCE of copyrighted files in a shared folder (even if its not connected to the internet) is a violation. I don't recall which law, but a quick google should reveal it, I think it may be connected to this other..

As well, there's another even better example.

"Family Entertainment and Copyright Act of 2005"
You may have heard of this but may not have known what they put into it.

The actual text of the law shown here: »thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/q ··· fs:e732:
says:
"(2) AUDIOVISUAL RECORDING DEVICE- The term `audiovisual recording device' means a digital or analog photographic or video camera..."

So digital cameras and cell phone cameras count because it says photographic OR video camera. Someone could be prosecuted under that law for an instant 3 year jail sentnance just for taking a cell phone snapshot of a film playing in theatres.
No need to upload or download. Insta jail.
I'm pretty sure 3 years in jail is a felony.

BTW, the law also permits and indemnifies theatre operators from any civil/criminal lawsuits and if they want to detain and interrogate you.

"(1) may detain, in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time, any person suspected of a violation of this section with respect to that motion picture or audiovisual work for the purpose of questioning..."
"(2) shall not be held liable in any civil or criminal action arising out of a detention under paragraph (1)"

Bush signed this law saying it would let people get those devices that let you skip or mute sex/violence, profanity (movie studios were arguing that those devices violated thier copyright).
But its loaded with a lot of other nasty stuff. I wonder if he even bothers to read even a summary of what he signs, or just lets the RIAA/MPAA tell him.

And don't give me any nonsense about it not being used in this way. Remember the girl who used her cellphone or camera to film a few seconds of transformers to show her brother and got arrested for it?
»www.switched.com/2007/08 ··· cording/

So these kinda laws ARE being used, just not very much yet, probably because they don't want to create an outcry until they get a few proscecutions behind them.

And everyone just lets this happen, because none of you bother to check out the law either.
Radioman991
join:2001-09-24
Dayton, OH

Radioman991

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

----
"Its not nessasary to do either. The way a new law is written, even the PRESENCE of copyrighted files in a shared folder (even if its not connected to the internet) is a violation."
----

If thats true, then good old Winders and the C$ admin share makes everyone guilty?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to 81399672

Premium Member

to 81399672
The laws have gotten very fascist lately. If they find a small amount of copied files, songs, or movies, they have multiple ways to come at you and try and bury you and claim you're a dangerous felon.

The punishments massively outweigh the "crime" but even so, that's the way it is. They really don't give a damn about "silly" clauses in some old piece of paper....
81399672 (banned)
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

81399672 (banned)

Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by KrK:

The laws have gotten very fascist lately. If they find a small amount of copied files, songs, or movies, they have multiple ways to come at you and try and bury you and claim you're a dangerous felon.

The punishments massively outweigh the "crime" but even so, that's the way it is. They really don't give a damn about "silly" clauses in some old piece of paper....
I have yet to see a single case in which a person is being sued for downloading files. I only seen people getting caught for uploading the files and letting other people download from them

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by 81399672:
said by KrK:

The laws have gotten very fascist lately. If they find a small amount of copied files, songs, or movies, they have multiple ways to come at you and try and bury you and claim you're a dangerous felon.

The punishments massively outweigh the "crime" but even so, that's the way it is. They really don't give a damn about "silly" clauses in some old piece of paper....
I have yet to see a single case in which a person is being sued for downloading files. I only seen people getting caught for uploading the files and letting other people download from them
One small problem. 95% of the people downloading are using software(bittorrent & other P2P) that also uploads while they download. So, as a practical matter, most downloaders are also uploaders too.

FiL25
Premium Member
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD

FiL25

Premium Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

but how do you prove that without spying on U.S. Citizens? You surely aren't implying a spy program aimed at data mining millions of people, are you?

Thought you were that "less gubmint" type of guy...
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
these are the pirates worth spending resources on. people uploading and downloading dont hurt any media or software industry. People selling pirate material do cause harm as for one thing they tend to get their stuff from mass pirate press shops.
floydb1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA

floydb1982 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
If all your doing is checking out audio CD's for your local library and copy them to your computer without sharing the music files over the internet are you aloud to do that or is it a copyright infringement?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by floydb1982:

If all your doing is checking out audio CD's for your local library and copy them to your computer without sharing the music files over the internet are you aloud to do that or is it a copyright infringement?
It is copyright infringement. But your chance of getting caught is virtually zero.
Expand your moderator at work

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

Camelot One to floydb1982

MVM

to floydb1982

Re: Copyright infringement is ALSO a criminal offense

said by floydb1982:

If all your doing is checking out audio CD's for your local library and copy them to your computer without sharing the music files over the internet are you aloud to do that or is it a copyright infringement?
It is not a criminal offense, so long as you don't share your copy in any way. (one of the requirements for a criminal case is the distribution)

p92460
@verizon.net

p92460

Anon

Priorities much?

Yes, we've got those "vicious" pirates behind bars. Now, how about all of those violent criminals who are still out on the streets killing people?

I guess if you're not a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation that's losing a few dollars in software sales, then you just don't get enough attention as a "victim". (Yeah, I exaggerate... a little.)

Boy... do I feel safer now!
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

1 recommendation

smcallah

Member

Re: Priorities much?

These people were actually SELLING pirated material.

That is much different than someone downloading at home, or providing copyrighted material through torrents.

These are exactly the type of people that should be fined significantly or sent to jail.

And do you really think they're not also trying to track down murderers just because they happen to make a bust like this? Don't be ridiculous.

•••••••••••••••
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy to p92460

Member

to p92460
said by p92460 :

Yes, we've got those "vicious" pirates behind bars. Now, how about all of those violent criminals who are still out on the streets killing people
One rationale might be that it takes taxes to pay for the infrastructure to catch, try and imprison violent criminals. Stealing the property of others, depriving them of sales and resulting taxes harms the rest of the system.

Mark

rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY

rit56 to p92460

Member

to p92460
Living in a big city I can say law enforcement does what it can. It's not like violent criminals post a notice prior to doing a crime. a crime is committed and police work begins to find the criminal. Sometimes there are no witnesses, other times witnesses are reluctant to come forward. The police do what they can, or at the very least you hope they do because if you have no trust in the police society will break down and criminals will take over. The crime here isn't out of control. the police do a decent job.
This was 2 people illegally coping software and selling it as new. A bit easier to track once they began to advertise. As far as a corporation putting law enforcement on to it. maybe so but for the local community there is a loss of revenue from sales tax and maybe job loss.. so there seems to be a valid reason for local law to enforce this.

FiL25
Premium Member
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD

FiL25

Premium Member

Re: Priorities much?

"because if you have no trust in the police society will break down and criminals will take over"

That one gave me a chuckle... it should be the other way around. Like the good ole day, when the cops knew your name.

"Hey, Mr. Fit the Description"

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer to p92460

Premium Member

to p92460
said by p92460 :

Yes, we've got those "vicious" pirates behind bars. Now, how about all of those violent criminals who are still out on the streets killing people?

So it's your insertion that the lesser of crimes should not be prosecuted?
The way I see it is that these are the easy crimes to prosecute. These morons have a digital trial leading straight to them. Just look at how fast criminals are caught once they do something stupid and post it online. This boggles my mind. This is truly a generational gap. The youth of this generation feel obligated to self-incriminate themselves in front of a world wide audience.
The world wide web has become the red carpet for the darwin awards with the ignorant!

••••••••••••••

javaMan
The Dude abides.
MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

javaMan to p92460

MVM

to p92460
said by p92460 :

Yes, we've got those "vicious" pirates behind bars. Now, how about all of those violent criminals who are still out on the streets killing people?

I guess if you're not a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation that's losing a few dollars in software sales, then you just don't get enough attention as a "victim". (Yeah, I exaggerate... a little.)

Boy... do I feel safer now!
What makes you think violent criminals aren't being investigated, charged and convicted too. Are you saying that because one type of criminal is apprehended and convicted that others are being neglected? It's always amusing to see this fallacy used because it simply doesn't make any sense. But then, you really weren't trying to make sense were you?

You seem to be of the thinking that if someone has a lot of money they, or we, shouldn't care when they are robbed. I suppose as long as it isn't your business that is losing money that it is fine to say that a corporation should be exempt from the protection of the law. The weakness in that argument, of course, is that I own stock in Adobe Systems and Microsoft and when they get ripped off, it isn't them, it's me that gets ripped off. Now I'm not a wealthy man so when someone steals from me it makes a difference. I suppose I could always set up business selling pirated software and become a wealthy man but I was taught there are ethical ways to accumulate wealth and there are those that aren't. No, you didn't exaggerate a little, you are simply ignorant about how things work. I'm sure you would sing a different tune if you yourself held any copyrights. But I suppose when you don't have anything to loose you can sound as high-minded as you like. But don't think you're being egalitarian when you do so.

p92460
@verizon.net

p92460 to p92460

Anon

to p92460
If anyone thinks my statements were an indictment against law enforcement personnel, then you don't quite understand what I was saying. Given the structure under which the police are forced to work, I think they do a good job. For the most part, the only "government" employees that I respect almost unconditionally are firemen (and women) and policemen (and, again , women). (Sure, some cops are actually criminals who are only posing... but I'm not talking about that very small fraction of a percent here.)

However, some prosecutor crowing about putting a couple software pirates behind bars is mildly offensive. Do these guys belong is jail? Sure. Did they commit fraud against the people who bought their "wares"? Absolutely, so send them to jail and let 'em rot. (Of course, my idea of "jail" is a room with four walls and no windows where you get your meals through a slot in the door, and you don't get to see, hear, or talk to anyone until you show some sign that you can actually function in society with some respect for others [as opposed to the typical jail nowadays where you get to eat all you want, go out and work out in the yard to become an even bigger and more violent criminal when you get out after only 3 of the 10 years you were sentenced to... etc. blah blah blah.)

If I'm asserting anything, it's that our legal system is totally screwed up because we have too many laws, and our police are overworked trying to enforce laws that shouldn't even be laws at all. Any law that tries to enforce how you live your own life or what to do with your own body or property that doesn't infringe on the right of others to do the same and isn't some threat to someone else's health and safety shouldn't even be a law. I assert that politicians are to blame; most of them are lawyers, after all, so what do you expect. Lawyers should never even be allowed to enact laws--talk about a conflict of interest.

Will anything change any time soon? I seriously doubt it. Ever? I doubt it, but at least I have some small modicum of hope that eventually people will wise up... but not in my lifetime.

•••

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl to p92460

Member

to p92460
said by p92460 :

Yes, we've got those "vicious" pirates behind bars. Now, how about all of those violent criminals who are still out on the streets killing people?

I guess if you're not a multi-million (billion?) dollar corporation that's losing a few dollars in software sales, then you just don't get enough attention as a "victim". (Yeah, I exaggerate... a little.)

Boy... do I feel safer now!
I just like to know why child molesters get probation or don't even get remand before a trial. That's just absurd.

PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium Member
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY

1 recommendation

PhoenixDown

Premium Member

good!

Maybe its hypocritical on my part, but I see a world of difference between folks sharing music, movies and programs via bittorrent and those who who are creating copies with the intention of selling for their own profit.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

1 recommendation

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: good!

I don't think it's hypocritical.

There's a big difference between downloading something for personal use, and making money off of it.

I don't download copyrighted material unless I've paid for it, IE iTunes. But there is a huge difference between listening to a song, or watching a movie, and making money off it..

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Glaice

Premium Member

Yep

Only people who physically pirate and make profit off the copies are worth putting in jail, not the teenie boppers sharing songs through P2P.
BoMarty
join:2001-02-01
Ballwin, MO

BoMarty

Member

Web site still up and running

Funny think is, in the yahoo.com article it mentioned several web sites linked to the "bad guys". One of those links are still up and running. too funny!
Px
join:2005-04-30

Px

Member

Serves them right

Its these people the deserve to get the wrath of the MPAA and the RIAA not your average john doe.

you_wants_dvd

Anon

hey mistar you wanna dvd movies, prada bag ?

wow 3 people ... impressive, great work fbi cia ag doj riaa mpaa copyright holders et al

what about the 100s of scum in chinatowns and on the streets selling cds, dvds right in your face?
oh wait, how long has this been going on? ...

... yeah

pat yourselves on the back. piracy has been terminated.

...great ... work ...

•••
BigMattock
join:2003-02-01
Woodruff, SC

BigMattock

Member

Illegal Software

I am currently a college student, pursuing a degree in programming. My college has an MSDN agreement such that M$ software that is needed for my classes is available free of charge. I could not afford to buy Visual Studio.net However, this semester, I have a class in Adobe Dreamweaver, and had to purchase the software. I did not like having to purchase software that I am only going use for one class, then never use again! What is the legality of selling software you never use anymore? I know the local library has a pretty big software section, so why are they able to get away with giving software away?

SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

SRFireside

Member

Re: Illegal Software

Someone who profits from another person's work is just plain wrong and is why copyright law was created in the first place. The person selling the software at a cut rate is not paying royalties to the copyright owner, thus is breaking the law. You buying the cheap software because you can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars just for a class? I sympathize with you, but I don't sympathize with the seller.

r20133614
@verizon.net

r20133614 to BigMattock

Anon

to BigMattock
As long as you don't keep any copies for yourself, you can sell it for whatever price you can get for it, which usually means something less than what you paid for it... just like used textbooks. The key thing, though, is to not keep any copies.

Bradmph
join:2006-03-01
Spokane, WA

Bradmph

Member

Piracy

Sure hope they don't have access to a computer in jail, lol.
WrzWrz
join:2002-08-23
Fort Thomas, KY

1 recommendation

WrzWrz

Member

Prison is not the answer

Prison does a good job of turning non-violent felons into violent ones.

This crime should be punished: by steep fines, community service, and bans from computer access. Prison will simply turn these people into violent people after they've been victimized in prison by sexual assault and other forms of violence.

The U.S. prison system isn't about rehabilitation anymore, it's simply human warehousing. Funding is constantly slashed and is only expanded to deal with overpopulation.

These people will eventually be out in society only to commit a violent crime to be thrown back into prison at taxpayer expense.

Prison should never be used for non-violent offenders.

r20134577
@verizon.net

r20134577

Anon

Re: Prison is not the answer

Prison reform is a whole 'nother issue. The original point of prison was to remove criminals from society and not to "rehabilitate". What it's become--in this country--is just higher education and a "prep" school for criminals, violent and otherwise. Convicts are just moved from one society to another society where violence is common, and when a convict is released he/she brings that prison mentality with him/her. Every prison sentence should be solitary confinement. Period. No society, and you get only enough food to stay healthy. Violent criminals should stay in prison for life, except for those that should be executed for murder. (Obviously, I'm no "bleeding heart" reformer.)

FiL25
Premium Member
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD

1 edit

FiL25 to WrzWrz

Premium Member

to WrzWrz
I agree with you whole heartily, W. Once thrown into the ringer, there's no telling how the person's going to react. Might reform, but odds favor that person just getting more aggressive and more violent.

ramsfansam
join:2002-08-27
Springfield, MO

ramsfansam

Member

And Ken Lay gets pardoned

He stole a LOT more than these guys did. Moral of the story? Don't do anything illegal unless you have a lot of friends in high places.

jonnyz
Premium Member
join:2003-03-20
Canfield, OH

jonnyz

Premium Member

Re: And Ken Lay gets pardoned

Exactly. It's what you know that gets you there and who you know that gets you out of it...
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah to ramsfansam

Member

to ramsfansam
said by ramsfansam:

He stole a LOT more than these guys did. Moral of the story? Don't do anything illegal unless you have a lot of friends in high places.
He was pardoned after he died, it's not like it helped him out much...