FCC Finally Realizes 200kbps is Not BroadbandVotes to reform long-flawed broadband data collection, albeit after-the-fact 04:02PM Wednesday Mar 19 2008 by Karl Bodetags: fcc · OdditiesWe've been complaining about the way the FCC tracks broadband penetration in this country for years. The agency has long considered 200kbps to be a broadband connection, and believes that if one person in a zip code has broadband, that entire zip-code is wired for service. That's a fairly big deal, given they've made massive, sweeping changes to the industry over the last decade based on completely inaccurate data. Given that more accurate data would highlight a lack of competition and coverage in many markets, the largest broadband providers have fought tooth and nail to prevent any change in this fairly convenient political scenario. While the FCC did release another rose-colored-glasses analysis (pdf) of the nation's broadband infrastructure today, they also voted to finally change the way they track broadband after a decade of criticism. The FCC has finally shifted the definition of broadband from 200kbps to 768kbps, probably not as high as it should be, but a vast improvement. The agency says they'll also start tracking both downstream and upstream speeds and will scrap the zip code tracking methodology for more substantive census-track level reporting. Carriers still won't be required to release data on the prices they charge for different speeds. Consumer Group Public Knowledge says the FCC is sending a "mixed message" to the public. "It is a mystery why the Commission chose to issue this report when, mere moments later, the Commission admitted the inadequacy of the information by starting the process to update the data collection on broadband," says PK founder Gigi B. Sohn. While the change actually arrived, it arrived after industry lobbyists convinced the Congress and the FCC to engage in sweeping deregulation of the industry, using flawed FCC data as a cornerstone. Perhaps the next time the FCC makes a decision on the market, they might actually know something about it. Related:- FCC Crackdown on Comcast Doesn’t Even Include Fine
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 |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
edit: March 19th, @03:42PM
| No credit Karl? Submitted this link and news item. But no tip credit?
Details of new methodology:
The FCC, as is typical, won't release the full text of the changes it adopted for a few weeks, but here's a rundown of major components described at Wednesday's meeting:
• 200Kbps speeds are no longer considered "broadband." Until this point, the FCC has considered any service that produces 200Kbps speeds in the upload or download direction to be "high speed." With Wednesday's vote, that methodology is no more. Now, 768Kbps, which is the entry-level speed offered by major DSL providers like Verizon, will be considered the low end of "basic broadband," a range that extends to under 1.5Mbps. • Broadband service speeds will have to be reported both for uploads and downloads. Previously the FCC had six big categories of broadband speeds, and they effectively only tracked download speeds. Now the agency says it will require reporting on upload speeds. Pro-regulatory advocacy groups like Free Press say that's a necessary step in part because of particularly in light of Comcast's admitted throttling of peer-to-peer filesharing uploads. • Upload and download speeds will have to be reported in a more specific way. At the moment, the broadband speeds most commonly offered by cable and telephone companies are lumped into two major categories: those between 200Kbps and 2.5Mbps, and those between 2.5 and 10Mbps. The FCC's new rules would require them to be broken down further, in an attempt to address charges that the current buckets have the potential to overstate the number of high-end subscriptions and understate the number of low-end subscriptions. Those new tiers will be: 1) 200 to 768Kbps ("first generation data"), 2) 768Kbps to 1.5Mbps ("basic broadband"), 3) 1.5-3Mbps, 4) 3-6Mbps, and 5) 6Mbps and above. • ISPs will be required to report numbers of subscribers, and at the census-block level. Under the current methodology, ISPs report only the number of zip codes in which they have at least one subscriber, and they report numbers of lines nationwide. Now they'll have to report the number of subscribers in each census tract they serve, broken down by speed tier. The FCC decided to use census tracts because researchers may be able to use other demographic statistics collected by the U.S. Census, such as age and income level, to gain insight about what drives broadband penetration rates. • ISPs will not have to report the prices they charge....yet. Democratic commissioners and liberal consumer advocacy groups had argued such a step is necessary in order to give consumers an idea of the value they're getting for their money--and to compare U.S. prices to those for comparable services abroad. Democratic Commissioner Michael Copps said on Wednesday that he continues to believe it's a "mistake" to omit that requirement, and Adelstein also voiced concern. But a majority of the commissioners opted to push that decision off until another time and gather more comments. | |
|  |  DV0407
join:2007-02-10 Orlando, FL | Satellite Well i guess the 256 tiers offered by Satellite isnt broadband anymore LMAO!! | |
|  |  |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Satellite said by DV0407 :Well i guess the 256 tiers offered by Satellite isnt broadband anymore LMAO!! Also what hasn't changed is that the tiers are still based on download speeds.
Meaning 768/128 would be considered in the broadband tier. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
|  |  |  |   synic
join:2002-03-30 Reno, NV
| Re: Satellite said by TK Junk Mail :Also what hasn't changed is that the tiers are still based on download speeds. Meaning 768/128 would be considered in the broadband tier. That's seriously unfortunate. They need to rate upload speeds, as it's the only way to get anyone to pay attention to them. | |
|  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Navarre, FL | Re: Satellite Upload offerings will be tracked and the only way anyone will pay attention to them, is when enough consumers (not DSLR posters) start asking for increased upload capacity. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Satellite said by openbox9 :Upload offerings will be tracked and the only way anyone will pay attention to them, is when enough consumers (not DSLR posters) start asking for increased upload capacity. START??? We've been asking for more upload for 10+ years, only the providers aren't listening! -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Satellite You may have, but the majority (and don't kid yourself, the majority matters in marketing) didn't even know what upload meant 10 years ago. In fact, I'm willing to lay odds that a majority of people today truly don't have a concept of what upload means. Do not confuse the typical ISP customer (the ones that ISPs want as their customers) for the types that hang out in forums like this. | |
|  |   wilbilt Pronto Resurrected Premium join:2004-01-11 Oroville, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
edit: March 20th, @07:56AM
| Re: No credit Karl? "ISPs will be required to report numbers of subscribers, and at the census-block level. Under the current methodology, ISPs report only the number of zip codes in which they have at least one subscriber, and they report numbers of lines nationwide. Now they'll have to report the number of subscribers in each census tract they serve, broken down by speed tier. The FCC decided to use census tracts because researchers may be able to use other demographic statistics collected by the U.S. Census, such as age and income level, to gain insight about what drives broadband penetration rates."
Great...so now an ISP will report that it has zero subscribers in an area (because they don't offer service there), and the FCC will announce that nobody subscribes in that area because they can't afford it.
The FCC should send out a simple questionnaire to every address in the country if they really want to find out the extent of broadband deployment.
Of course, they really don't want to know, so it will never happen. -- We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us. | |
|  |   Steve SAS-70 is extortion Consultant join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA
| said by TK Junk Mail :Submitted this link and news item. But no tip credit? Do you submit news because you want to be helpful, or because you want to be credited? | |
|  |  |   digitalfreak Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09 Blacklick, OH
| Re: No credit Karl? said by Steve :said by TK Junk Mail :Submitted this link and news item. But no tip credit? Do you submit news because you want to be helpful, or because you want to be credited? He craves attention. | |
|  |  |  |   Steve SAS-70 is extortion Consultant join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA
| Re: No credit Karl? said by digitalfreak :He craves attention. Good thing you pointed that out or I might have missed this  | |
|   Raptor Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21 London, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bell Sympatico
| A start.... Should've been at least 1.5Mbit, but it's a start. Sadly, this standard will probably last a long while.
I'd be interested to see the new penetration rates based on this new standard. I'll bet they're a weeeee bit lower.
"I'm happy we're starting to change our benchmarks," he said, "but my goodness, how late in the day it is." My goodness, how much of an understatement that is  -- ....where's my fiber? | |
|  |   OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27 Columbus, OH clubs: | Re: A start.... Hey at least they are taking baby steps into the right direction. Thisis the US Gov't, it never moves fast unless its in their best intrest (read:political supporters and special intrest groups). Never when it would actually benefit its citizens. | |
|  nokiatech
join:2000-10-18 Jensen Beach, FL | 768 is fair Most "DSL Lite" packages are 768. I think that's what most would call minimum broadband speed. It's a night and day diffrence faster then dialup. | |
|  |  Sammer
join:2005-12-22 Pittsburgh, PA | Re: 768 is fair 768 may be just OK for the minimum (although it should have been 768/256) but 6 Mbps is obscenely low for a premium tier. | |
|  |   nklb Premium join:2000-11-17 Ypsilanti, MI clubs:
| said by nokiatech :Most "DSL Lite" packages are 768. I think that's what most would call minimum broadband speed. It's a night and day diffrence faster then dialup. My first broadband connection was 768k SDSL. To this date, that was my favorite connection ever. Lowest latency, most consistent performing.
Sure, now I am on something that is technically faster, and it is in raw throughput, but it still just isn't the same. Particularly when running large numbers of connections across it. -- for all your Linux questions | |
|  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| confusion and lack of information... ...is the incumbents friend.
another incumbent friend (well, maybe not so much for cable) is Kevin Martin.
and Kevin has been helping his incumbent friends by doing his best to see that accurate broadband statistics are not available.
as soon as we have accurate numbers on broadband speeds and deployment in this country, the charade will be over.
nothing will be done about it, but no longer will rosy pictures of broadband in the U.S. be painted. | |
|  |   RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: confusion and lack of information... said by nasadude :as soon as we have accurate numbers on broadband speeds and deployment in this country, the charade will be over. You funny boy. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  Smith6612 Premium join:2008-02-01 united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
edit: March 19th, @04:15PM
| hehe... So my 768k DSL line from Verizon is "First-Generation/ Basic Broadband." Wait until I upgrade to 3Mbps/FiOS 
But what's the upload for broadband, I never saw anything in the article. | |
|  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | Re: hehe... No upload requirements as far as I know, which would mean even those old DOCSIS 1.0 systems where your upload was via a separate dial-up connection would still be broadband if they could get their download speeds to the requisite points. | |
|  |  |  Smith6612 Premium join:2008-02-01 united state
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
| Re: hehe... That stinks then. The FCC should set upload speeds to be set for "broadband" as well, as not only does more download come with broadband, more upload comes with them as well as I'm sure we all know. The only thing is, some providers as I know provide very little upload compared to the download, so I'm sure that if the upload speeds are included as well in this FCC thing, I'm sure that broadband providers would probably boost their upload speeds for the slower plans. That's my guess... | |
|   Its madness
@saix.net
| USA lagging in speeds, big time! How come the US hasn't got 24Mbps DSL? The UK has had 24 Mbps DSL for two years already, with 1Mbps upload. Uncapped of course. How come the US is lagging? What's up with the providers??? The US has more dark fibre laying around than most other countries put together, why not put it to good use? We all know China, Japan, Korea etc have 100Mbps+, but if it wasn't for FIOS the US would look pretty backward? Even South Africa has 4Mbps! | |
|  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Navarre, FL | Re: USA lagging in speeds, big time! What is that 24/1 DSL being used for? Or a better question, is the 24/1 being used routinely for something that the US' "piddly" 6/768 DSL doesn't satisfy? | |
|  |  |  Skippy25
join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO | Re: USA lagging in speeds, big time! Are you serious?
So what does 6/768 satisfy that 768/128 doesnt?
Why does my company run 100mb and 1gb to the desktop when the user's can accomplish the same thing with a 1mb token ring system? | |
|  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Navarre, FL | Re: USA lagging in speeds, big time! Because 100 Mbps is cheaper than token ring and has become the defacto standard in a LAN. IMO, 6/768 doesn't satisfy much more than 768/128 for a lot of users. You didn't answer my question btw. | |
|  |  |  |  |  Skippy25
join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO
edit: March 21st, @03:32PM
| Re: USA lagging in speeds, big time! Companies will migrate to the products and services that make their user's the most productive which is 100% the reason why ethernet is the defacto. Cost will have a factor, but factored into cost is the return on productivity.
Everything is faster with a faster connection. The more information that can be fed in a shorter amount of time whether it is email, webpages, P2P sharing, or FTP the more a person is able to do. PERIOD. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Navarre, FL | Re: USA lagging in speeds, big time! I understand what you are saying, but my point is that you can do almost everything with a 6/768 connection that you can with a 24/1 connection. And a vast majority of consumers won't care or notice...especially if costs are a concern. | |
|  |  EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | AT&T U-Verse is 24Mbps (often higher) VDSL- the thing is, a big chunk of that is dedicated to IPTV. I believe Qwest and Embarq are also looking into ADSL2+ technologies that are capable of similar speeds. | |
|   Kfedka Premium join:2005-05-06 Spokane, WA | Old school... Yesterday's dialup is today's 200kbps. | |
|   shoe1
join:2007-09-28 Colfax, CA
edit: March 19th, @05:23PM
| SHEESE. Sheese, Im still on dial up, well WB(512k too...so thats NOT broadband anyway) but it's almost the same thing...I live in a town with 2,000(within 5 miles of town) other people why don't I have DSL? ugh, 20kbps sucks so much....makes me want to cry. What can I do Verizon just will not provide it. WTF!! AT&T provides dsl 5 miles away and that has less people. | |
|  moven
join:2008-02-25 Huntsville, TX | Must be nice Well, I am not the one in the zip code, they are just down the road. Heck, I would be more than happy at 200 vs the lousy 3 AT&T manages to provide !! | |
|  wahoospa
join:2006-03-23 Charleston, SC | That leaves me out AT&T set me at 762 (not 768)for the $10 dsl so I guess I'm still on slow speed.  | |
|   OC LINES
@sbcglobal.net
| OC-768 / STM-256x
Let's just put a federal bill in to establish a network built on OC-768 / STM-256x networks.
We have the technology, and it's already been in physical testing periods. Let's finish it off and establish this great new technology. At this point, with every technological advancement we've made, we need to provide the means to support it.
I believe the basic broadband rate should be 100mbit
That's just me, but I think more will fall along this course as technology advances, and technology brings us to a full front, where space and speed is necessary to be part of this evolution.
As of December 2007, AT&T has deployed 50,000 wavelength-miles of OC-768 in its Internet/MPLS backbone network [1]. OC-768 SONET interfaces have been available with short-reach optical interfaces from Cisco since as early as 2006. Infinera made a field trial demonstration data transmission on a live production network involving the service transmission of a 40Gb/s OC-768/STM-256 service over a 1,969 km terrestrial network spanning Europe and the U.S. | |
|  |   bubba123
@uiuc.edu | Re: OC-768 / STM-256x I agree 100%. I'd clarify that it should be 100Mb *symmetrical* and have complete network neutrality. IE, I can run whatever I want - email server, web server, game server etc. Also be provided with 4-6 static IP addresses (IPV6 is fine). | |
|  |   Dark Fiber Premium join:2005-01-23 Boise, ID
·Clearwire
·Qwest.net
edit: March 23rd, @08:24PM
| Why stop there?
Why not OC-3072?
»www.dfs.org/digital.html
There are companies using Infinera gear on their backbones right now, although 10 Gbps cards are more likely the standard.
Assuming your 40 Gbps example, let's do the math:
Let's presume you live in the bandwidth saturated city of Megopolis where *everyone* has a 100 Mbps Internet connection to his home. How many customers will saturate a 40 Gbps backbone?
40 Gbps = 4000 Mbps 40000 Mbps / 100 Mbps = 400 customers
Do you see where I am going?
You aren't going to be seeing true 100 Mbps Internet anytime soon. Even if you had a 100 Mbps link to your house from your ISP, how much do you think you could ever actually use, even on an OC-3072 backbone based Internet?
Yes, you could build provide higher line rates on an over-subscription based model. Would it be better than what we have now? I don't know if it would be, and I certainly am not against the experiment, but you can never really utilize any bandwidth that exceeds the narrowest choke point.
Could you better offer broadcast services such as TV over IP? Probably, but only because you would rely on high bandwidth private lines to get the aggregate content to local distribution points and sustain individual connections from there, or use multicast (which I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about).
As the venerable Mr. Scott was famed to say: "Ye cannae change the laws of physics!" | |
|  nnaarrnn
join:2004-09-30 Nitro, WV | the 768k IS upload it's for 768 both ways right? wasnt the 200k for both ways? | |
|  |  CWO333
join:2005-02-24 Chicago, IL | Re: the 768k IS upload No, it was previously 200k in one direction (pretty much always download only). | |
|  |   Bell103
@rr.com
| Broadband Flag Waving Well, I was thrilled to get 256K DSL with 64K upload, after fighting GTE for a decade trying to get ISDN deployed, for less than $100 a month. The alternative at the time was buying a 64K frame relay circuit, for about $500 a month.
Today, with 768K/128K for about $15+tax and cable internet for $30, I'm not sure what the fuss is about. The higher bit-rates only seem to matter for trading copyrighted materials, working around re-regulating cable TV, or pretending to provide phone service.
If your main complaint is that VOIP doesn't work on 128K upload, well, maybe you need to re-think VOIP - after all, voice has run on 3K for over 100 years.
What is the "advantage" that Korea, Japan, et al have with their super-broadband? Tangible evidence, please. | |
|  macdude22
join:2005-09-08 Kellogg, IA
| Bump me up, buttercup Hurrah, perhaps this will force my provider to bump up speeds a bit. Our current offerings are.
512/256 - 39.99 1.0/256 - 49.99 1.5/512 - 69.99
Plus the useless phone I don't use, I want to see them require naked DSL. My bill is $102 a month for the 1.5 package and the required phone line. Seems as though thats highway robbery but they are the only game in town. | |
|  haplo2112
join:2003-05-12 Charlton, MA | New DEF is still pathetic Why do they refuse to set the standards at something reasonable given the available technology.
It should have been more like 1/1 mbps or perhaps even higher. | |
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