The 95 Dish Network HD Channels That Weren'tCompany brags about new HD total hours before pulling 15 channels... ( old news - 06:26PM Thursday May 15 2008) tags: competition · business · Oddities · HDTV · Dish NetworkI'm generally entertained by TV marketing battles, from companies including everything but the blue setup screen in their total channel counts, to companies attacking others for false advertising while engaging in false advertising. This week it's Dish Network playing PR patty cake. In an announcement this week, the carrier informed customers that Dish was increasing their HD channel count by 22 to a total of 95 channels: The satcaster issued a press release on Monday saying it would add 22 High-Definition channels this week. The announcement appeared to put Dish on par with high-def programming leader DIRECTV, which carries 95 national HD channels. And if you weren't clear about that, Dish underscored the point in the release by including this quote from Eric Sahl, the company's senior vice president of programming: "We are excited to extend our competitiveness in HD by enhancing our already comprehensive HD lineup with these 22 channels, bringing our total HD lineup to over 95 channels," Sahl said. The company didn't tell customers they would be pulling 15 HD channels from their lineup later in the day. The night of the announcement, Dish dropped their HD channel count to 80. Dish customers had 95 HD channels for about eight hours, so technically Dish never lied. Yeah, I can barely watch the HD channels I have either, and I think worrying about total channel counts is lame. But not quite as lame as HD marketing. There's some additional discussion in our cable & satellite TV forum.
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 zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
1 edit | hd bandwith i think a more accurate way to view this hd war is in total amount of bandwidth dedicated to hd | |
|  | whiteyonenh
join:2004-08-09
Keene, NH
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: hd bandwith said by zed260  :i think a more accurate way to view this hd war is in total amount of bandwidth dedicated to hd Ok viewed that way, bandwidth could be construed as a big difference than amount of channels. Have you ever seen an over-compressed hd channel on cable or sattelite?
Bandwidth is only 1/2 the equation, but if they're claiming HD based on the resolution, and compressing it so much that it is only slightly better than SD, is it really HD?
My point is this, while you could count the amount of bandwidth being dedicated to HD it wouldn't make sense, as the general consumer is going to look at the amount of channels over the bitrate, as the consumer has no idea what a bitrate means. One company could offer 200 HD channels, and the other only offer 20 HD channels, assuming they use the same codecs for that video signal, and that the same amount of overall bandwidth is being used, the one with only 20 HD channels will look better, as bitrate on the system with 200 HD channels will be much lower with less detail, similar to how you can download a 32kbps MP3 and then listen to a 256kbit MP3 and tell the difference, the same is true with HD. | |
| | | zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN | Re: hd bandwith true
maybe a better comparision could be amde by deviding total hd abndwith by number of channels | |
| | | | Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: hd bandwith Still doesn't work because you have to discuss whether you're using MPEG2 or MPEG4 compression...and by the time you get to that point, consumers' eyes begin to glaze over....
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My opinions are my own. No-one else would want them! | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by whiteyonenh :said by zed260 :i think a more accurate way to view this hd war is in total amount of bandwidth dedicated to hd Bandwidth is only 1/2 the equation, but if they're claiming HD based on the resolution, and compressing it so much that it is only slightly better than SD, is it really HD? No it isn't. its HD-LITE.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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Bobcat
Cablevision sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | No sympathy from me Cablevision is pulling almost 10% of my channels with no decrease in rates. In fact, if I want to keep those channels, I have to pay 50% more than I pay now. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: No sympathy from me Its reason's like this that I'm going OTA HD.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA | Re: No sympathy from me Can we get OTA HD here in SCV? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: No sympathy from me Depending on where you live, yes
Best areas appear to be an area where you have a clear view of the mountains (San Gabriel?). Canyon country to Castiac along Soledad/Newhall Ranch is supposed to be the best areas.
I'm near Wiley Canyon/Orchard Village, and I hit 36 channels with a Philips MANT510 on my roof (yeah - its not an outdoor, and I plan to replace it). NOTE: All OTA HD are on UHF right now, but 7, 9, 11, 13 will be back on VHF after Feb 2009.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA | Re: No sympathy from me Won't work for me. I'm up Bouquet just past Central Park. So I'm surrounded by mountains. Now if I could put up a big juicy tower without pissing off my neighbors.... | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: No sympathy from me Yup - you'd have to be 'up' on the hill in that area (I.e. top of Copper Hill). I did an 'easy' test, and went to Walmart and bought some gear. If it didn't work, return it.
I tried a few different types - Philips plain rabbit ears gave me 4-9 channels indoors. RCA indoor/outdoor antenna didn't give me anything in or outdoors (POS). Philips MANT510 with 50dB gain gave me ~13 channels indoor, and now 36-40 on the roof.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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Bobcat
Cablevision sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by bigunk :Won't work for me. I'm up Bouquet just past Central Park. So I'm surrounded by mountains. Now if I could put up a big juicy tower without pissing off my neighbors.... The FCC says you can erect any type of tower necessary to receive the TV/satellite signals you want, and your neighbors can't stop you. (The FAA may have concerns, however).
From »www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders···2132.pdf
quote:
Petitioners have installed six masts in the rear of their lot which are secured to the ground by guy wires. There are five masts approximately 30 feet in height which are roughly even with Petitioners' roofline, two of which simply provide support to another mast, and one ten foot mast. Petitioners have affixed five television antennas and three satellite dish antennas to these masts. The antennas provide reception for ten television sets, nine video cassette recorders, and seven satellite receivers.
The neighborhood association complained, but the FCC says it's all legal. | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: No sympathy from me Very true. I was fighting those battles back in the day when I was installing dishes from 10 to 15 feet wide for clients. I went up against cities and associations routinely. Won every time. But now it's MY property, and I have to deal with my wife. In other words, I can do what I choose, but the bitching will be so loud and incessant, I won't have a chance to enjoy the fruits of my labors.
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There is not a man in the country that can't make a living for himself and family. But he can't make a living for them AND his government, the way his government is living. What the government has got to do is live as cheap as the people.
- Will Rogers | |
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Bobcat
Cablevision sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | Re: No sympathy from me The Wife is a higher authority than the FCC.
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We messed-up, but we looked great doing it! | |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA | I don't get a single channel near where Copperhill meets McBean Parkway. It's VERY hit and miss around here.
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Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams. | |
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cothrom
join:2005-12-01
Greer, SC
·Charter Pipeline
| I have been doing OTA HD for almost 2 years here in the upstate of SC. I have the choice of about 18 actual HD channels (1080i) and a load of 480i and 1 that runs 720i (Fox Network) I have used and seen DirecTV HD which is for the most part very nice, and have had first had experience with Charter Cable HD, which it a big way is very lacking, and their customer service is a joke. I am not a "TV fanatic" anyway, but OTA broadcasting does it for me
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Some people should'nt | |
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Bobcat
Cablevision sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | Re: No sympathy from me They're moving Animal Planet, SciFi, E!, TLC, and a couple others to digital. Since I don't have any boxes, I'd have to pay an extra $25 per month to get them on all three TVs. | |
| | whiteyonenh
join:2004-08-09
Keene, NH
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Bobcat :Cablevision is pulling almost 10% of my channels with no decrease in rates. In fact, if I want to keep those channels, I have to pay 50% more than I pay now. I've found at least in my opinion that it's easier just to do without in that situation, I no longer subscribe to TV and just use online video services to watch the shows i want to watch, while it may be slightly less convenient, I'm happy with saving the $50 a month, plus I have the option of watching when I want without having to record it.
The only thing that I miss about not having TV is the local news. I'm currently looking into getting a newspaper subscription. National/International news is easily gathered online on various free services.
Cable has lost me for the reason that they remove channels and/or transition the channels to the digital tier, without a reduction in service fees. For someone like me that is on a budget, once the few channels that exist that I actually watch gets moved to digital, theres no real benefit to keeping cable, as I cannot afford the digital tiers. I cannot get dish where I'm living so that is not a real option to me, and this area is so hilly/mountainous I would have to put up a 1000' mast to receive the "local" OTA HD channels, so I don't bother. | |
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SLD
join:2002-04-17
Los Angeles, CA | Re: No sympathy from me Just curious, what video service do you use? | |
| | | | | | | | | whiteyonenh
join:2004-08-09
Keene, NH
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: No sympathy from me said by Nightfall :said by SLD :Just curious, what video service do you use? $10 says its a illegal P2P service. I have a friend who uses a variety of P2P torrent sites to download what he wants when he wants to watch it. Saves him the huge cable bill, and he in turn donates some cash to the site. None of the video services I use are P2P, and this only works because I watch a very limited amount of shows. ABC has their own video service that streams their shows, and then theres also Hulu, which is also quite interesting »www.hulu.com/
Oh, and BTW... You owe me $10.   | |
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wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | Voom So is Voom officially dead now? Or does anyone else carry it?
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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 | |
| | MySay
join:2008-04-08
Mansfield, TX
1 edit | Re: Voom RANT:
"09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0"
According to our laws, even posting that number can land you in prison! Now, how f'd up is that?
"Ignorance of the law is not an excuse", we hear time and time again! However, the PROFESSIONALS of the law themselves (Judges, Lawyers, & Law Enforcement Agents) have to resort to "looking them up" in a book! Uh, anybody else see the problem here? The PROFESSIONALS who spend YEARS studying the law can't even keep up w/ them!
Call your local PD, and ask them the minimum age a child can be left alone at home in your jurisdiction, or the requirements your kids have to meet in order to sit in the front seat of your car! If they don't take down your information and request to call you back (to look the information up), I'll send that department a box of donuts!
People complain all the time about the direction our nation is heading! I for one, am one of those people! Besides the tax system... the legal system as well needs a complete overhaul! We currently have a system that benefits the politicians and corporations of the nation, and where the criminals have more rights than the victims!
TO THE TOPIC (to keep post legit): Does anybody actually find this suprising? Cable / Satellite, Phone / Internet, Electric companies... they're all the same. Each extending their arms for more of your money, while cutting back their services. Their other hand is busy playing w/ their political puppet. | |
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koolman2
Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK
·GCI.net
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: Voom said by MySay :RANT: "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" According to our laws, even posting that number can land you in prison! Now, how f'd up is that? No it can't. A number can't be copyrighted or considered intellectual property. Supposed DMCA rules may be able to be interpreted otherwise, but it has yet to have been tested in court.
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Now typed solely on DSK (Dvorak Simplified Keyboard). | |
| 
Schmoozer
| Dish Acted w/ Clear Unquestionable Deception Truth be said, Dish never made an official announcement, and can be sighted to a lack of notification given they preempted their cancelation less than 24 hrs prior with a false and misleading statement of, "95 HD Channels". They had complete knowledge of their intent and that would be indisputable. Echostar was quoted after the ruling (Voom vs Echostar), "It was their intent to shut down Voom service," prior to the action (premeditative deception). Once the new HD channels were established they pulled Voom down.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see complicity in these matters.
I chewed out an executive at corp Dish and they were oblivious to the news.
You have the absolute right to terminate an agreement, especially given the inequitable pricing structures. All Dish network customers who are playing the same for less HD have the absolute right to terminate and/or demand change without penalties. Depending on the state you're residing in, you may also be entitled to damages. | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | FTC needs to start cracking down... Whether it's speed claims of ISPs, calling their over compressed dog poo HD, or these channel counts, it's time the FTC step in and put a stop to all the BS. | |
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Oh Please
@rr.com
| Re: FTC needs to start cracking down... said by Dogfather :Whether it's speed claims of ISPs, calling their over compressed dog poo HD, or these channel counts, it's time the FTC step in and put a stop to all the BS. Whatcha smoking???? Must be the good stuff. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| I got an idea To be considered a HD channel in counts a channels programming MUST be a least 1080i 50% of the time[im talking TRUE 1080i, not stretch - o - vision or zoom - o - vision]
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I can make any channel i want 'pseudo HD' by using stretch on the TV then HD zoom on the cable remote.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
| Re: I got an idea said by dvd536 :To be considered a HD channel in counts a channels programming MUST be a least 1080i 50% of the time[im talking TRUE 1080i, not stretch - o - vision or zoom - o - vision] - I can make any channel i want 'pseudo HD' by using stretch on the TV then HD zoom on the cable remote. Actually the 15 pulled VOOM channels were 100% HD content running at 16:9 1080i.
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Make your Sipura/PAP2 speak. »www.voipurize.com
SouthWest Louisiana PC Users Group »www.swlapcug.com | |
| | maxpower
join:2006-10-09
Providence, RI
| said by dvd536 :To be considered a HD channel in counts a channels programming MUST be a least 1080i 50% of the time[im talking TRUE 1080i, not stretch - o - vision or zoom - o - vision] - I can make any channel i want 'pseudo HD' by using stretch on the TV then HD zoom on the cable remote. Wait so 720p doesn't count as HD anymore? | |
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Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Aurora, CO
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast
| HD Channels vs Content While I don't agree with what dish did, I am also looking at it from whats the point of having HD channels when they are not showing HD Content? I have Comcast right now and they added some channels to the HD lineup, but some of those channels don't show ANY HD content. A great example is DisneyHD and FoodHD. I have yet to see ANY HD content, not that I would actually watch it. I think when channels start filming in HD is when they should then get an HD feed out to the companies. Either that or they want their foot in the HD door and will broadcast when ready (which should be now, since they have the channel). I have seen the DirecTV HD lineup, and while they have a good channel lineup, the HD content is just not there, but thats not the providers fault, thats the channels fault. | |
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digiblur
Got Sipura?
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
| Wrong..... Actually this story is wrong on the timeline.
They released a bunch of new channels on Monday. Then Monday night they pulled 10 of the 15 VOOMs down. Then on Tuesday night they pulled the other 5.
And technically they aren't pulled...they are still up there but hidden from subscribers.
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Make your Sipura/PAP2 speak. »www.voipurize.com
SouthWest Louisiana PC Users Group »www.swlapcug.com | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: Wrong..... you are splitting hairs. | |
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justlilolemeee
@comcast.net
| Dish Sucks I been sayin it all along as a former DirecTV installer, Comcast cable modem installer and Dish installer that Dish is just worthless. From every avenue of their business they just down right suck swamp water. Customer Service, Technical Support, the Installation Department, their own installers.. they just suck suck suck.
Their equipment is way over engineered for something as simple as watching TV. Most of my service calls were about people who mucked up their DVR by pushing 50 buttons.. in otherwords, customer education. If a phone tech can't get a person on the right track they just give up and send a tech. Then we get there and find that batteries are in backwards, the modulator for TV-2 has been messed with...
The equipment is stupid.
DirecTV does it right. Easy to use remotes, no TV-2 crap.
Dish bites! | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Dish Sucks said by justlilolemeee :
I been sayin it all along as a former DirecTV installer, Comcast cable modem installer and Dish installer that Dish is just worthless. Go you were fired by Dish, eh? | |
| oisanteria
Premium
join:2005-09-25
Kearny, NJ
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Manipulative Thanks for reporting on this...
I'm really upset over losing VOOM HD channels, especially Monsters HD.
They usually get away with some of their tricks, but this 95 channels today, 80 tomorrow was quite noticable.
I've complained to the FCC, BBB, & ConsumerReports because of this.
Good luck getting out of any agreement, btw. 
»www.petitiononline.com/monsthd/petition.html | |
| | davidrose9
join:2006-08-04
Etna, ME | Re: Manipulative Makes me sooo mad they could keep the 22 new in exchange for VOOM HD that's why I switched to Dish in the first place | |
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