 Lenagainster
join:2005-01-07
Silver Spring, MD
 ·VoicePulse
 ·DIRECTV
·magicjack.com
| Not surprising Most folks are not that technically astute when it comes to VoIP. Most folks don't even know what VoIP means. Tell them to plug in the TA to the router and you'll get a blank stare. So when Commiecast says we will give you unlimited calling for $25 and throw in a few features with it, and let you keep your precious phone number, and Commiecast does all the work to set it up, sure they will go for it. It's less than the $50 plus they were paying to the landline company. Relatively few are technically saavy enough and brave enough to venture into the world of independent VoIP providers and get a much better deal for even less $$. | |
|  | lengyelc
join:2005-12-11
Alpharetta, GA
·AT&T CallVantage
 ·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | Re: Not surprising Agree 100%, and so will just about everyone reading this thread. People don't have the time to mess with home wiring, QoS routers and/or firmware flashing, and all those other hardware/software tricks that are required to get a nice stable voip connection through a third party provider.
Comcast certainly preys on customer stupidity. Have you seen their commercials? Those alone were enough to make me puke and change providers! | |
| | | ftth_freak
join:2005-06-17
Ballwin, MO
| Re: YOUR WRONG Obviously you are technically lacking in VoIP knowledge. Cable Co's like Comcast, Time Warner, Charter, Cox and others use an entirely separate CMTS and separate return and forward signal than their cable modem system. This insures the QoS for the cable co's VoIP/phone service. For all of you P2P defenders, this mean when you are sucking up all of the upload and downoad capacity in your neighborhood with your cable modem, the VoIP/phone CMTS will not be affected. When using a third party VoIP like Vonage, Vonage piggy backs off of the same bandwidth as your cable modem and thus will be affected by the users bandwidth habits.
For instance, a user who pays for the lowest level of modem speed and uses Vonage will hear a degraded quality of voice and could also experiance dropped call if the down/up load a large file at the same time.
FYI...all things are not created equal in reality...only in your mind. | |
| | | | 
fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering | Re: YOUR WRONG That was a great post. Thanks for educating me. I sure as hell didn't know that!
--
The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary. | |
| | | | 
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
2 edits | said by ftth_freak  : Cable Co's like Comcast, Time Warner, Charter, Cox and others use an entirely separate CMTS and separate return and forward signal than their cable modem system. Cable co's COULD do that, but the most don't.
Most setup separate service flows over the same upstream/downstream channels the cable modems use. Phone services are given higher priority and guaranteed bandwidth so general internet use doesn't impact phone service.
If the cable companies were using separate CMTSs or even just separate upstream/downstream channels they couldn't provision eMTAs to allow for both internet access and phone service from the same unit as current DOCSIS 1 and 2 modems can't tune to more than 1 upstream and 1 downstream channel at a time.
Companies that REQUIRE seperate phone and internet modems may be using separate channels or CMTSs but that's pretty rare.
The nice thing about cable co's VOIP implementations is that they DON'T route voice traffic over the internet like 3rd party VOIP providers HAVE to. Cable can keep the traffic on their own private network (on it's own VLAN) until they hand it off to PSTN providers if needed for an off-net call. Some cable providers also have agreements and links with others so they can directly hand off traffic to each other without 3rd party network involvement. If both ends of the call are on cable VOIP, the call traffic may not even leave the cable providers' networks.
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Don't mind me, I'm just trying to help...
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Not only it has dedicated bandwidth it's also a lot more secure.
Cable co in my area charges $29.99/mo if you bundle all three services so it's worth $5 extra just to have these benefits. | |
| | | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| Re: YOUR WRONG said by Anonymous :Cable co in my area charges $29.99/mo if you bundle all three services so it's worth $5 extra just to have these benefits. But what about next year when the promotion ends and they jack up the rates? | |
| | | | | |
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Re: YOUR WRONG I've had it for almost 3 years now. Also this is regular pricing. | |
| | | | | | | DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| Re: YOUR WRONG said by Anonymous :I've had it for almost 3 years now. Also this is regular pricing. Please identify the cable company to which you are referring, preferably with a website that posts the rates so we can all see them. | |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
1 edit | Re: YOUR WRONG said by DonLibes :said by Anonymous :I've had it for almost 3 years now. Also this is regular pricing. Please identify the cable company to which you are referring, preferably with a website that posts the rates so we can all see them. Try here:
»www.mediacomcable.com/phone.html | |
| | | | 
Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Additionally, the MSOs VoIP product never touches the internet. It flows over their own network to the facility where they have their PSTN connectivity. They can control the quality end-to-end, whereas an Indie VoIP provider is subject to the delays of the internet.
FYI, I have an Indie VoIP phone. (Nuvio nPBX w/ a Polycom 501) | |
| | | | | 
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: YOUR WRONG said by Matt :Additionally, the MSOs VoIP product never touches the internet. Except on Comcast, where it does -- albeit it never leaves Comcast's network but where it does ride on Comcast's network, that network is part of the Internet.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: YOUR WRONG said by funchords :said by Matt :Additionally, the MSOs VoIP product never touches the internet. Except on Comcast, where it does -- albeit it never leaves Comcast's network but where it does ride on Comcast's network, that network is part of the Internet. Comcast controls the QoS on "their" network. Who cares if their network is attached to the internet or not, it never leaves their backbone so no, it never traverses the internet. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: YOUR WRONG said by Matt :Comcast controls the QoS on "their" network. Who cares if their network is attached to the internet or not, it never leaves their backbone so no, it never traverses the internet. I didn't mince the words in that way, I said that the VOIP upstream of Comcast Digital Voice does ride on the Internet. It's not like Time Warner, which uses a dedicated chanell, Comcast uses the same uplink as HSI.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
| |
| | | | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | :boggle: | |
| | | | 
bsr64000
@rcn.com
| no youre wrong!
cable co's use the SAME frequency and cmts as cable modem. but the voice packets are prioritized over data packets.
said by ftth_freak :Obviously you are technically lacking in VoIP knowledge. Cable Co's like Comcast, Time Warner, Charter, Cox and others use an entirely separate CMTS and separate return and forward signal than their cable modem system. This insures the QoS for the cable co's VoIP/phone service. For all of you P2P defenders, this mean when you are sucking up all of the upload and downoad capacity in your neighborhood with your cable modem, the VoIP/phone CMTS will not be affected. When using a third party VoIP like Vonage, Vonage piggy backs off of the same bandwidth as your cable modem and thus will be affected by the users bandwidth habits. For instance, a user who pays for the lowest level of modem speed and uses Vonage will hear a degraded quality of voice and could also experiance dropped call if the down/up load a large file at the same time. FYI...all things are not created equal in reality...only in your mind. | |
| | | | | | | | | baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA
·Future Nine Corpor..
| Re: YOUR WRONG Network Guy,
Are you saying that a $15 price mark-up is justified because choppy calls via CLEC VoIP are rare and far between? If so, I guess that depends how choppy the alternatives are. The difference in voice quality between my previous ILEC landlines and my Magicjack and Future Nine VOIP lines is almost nil. Clearly not worth spending $15 more for a slight possible improvement. | |
| | | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: YOUR WRONG You read that wrong.
I prefer the cheaper CLEC alternative both because in my experience the difference is negligible and because of price.
And I just personally prefer not to give the evil local MSO one more penny for anything. | |
| | | | | | | baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA | Re: YOUR WRONG Network Guy,
I wondered if I was reading it wrong.  | |
| | | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | Re: Not surprising said by lengyelc :Comcast certainly preys on customer stupidity. Have you seen their commercials? Those alone were enough to make me puke and change providers! Then do the forum a favor and do that.
Comcast 'preys'... that's stretching it. Considering that Americans have been accustomed to paying $70+ phone bills for years, $50 isn't that bad.
It's clear you are either are too young to have ever experienced real hardship and real phone service, or you(and the others - to be fair) don't find that utilities and other necessities are priorities and would rather have your money to spend on music, over priced clothing, high end TV's and, here's one... OVER PRICED CELLULAR SERVICE. ANYONE here with a cell phone should rethink about bitching at even a $50 unlimited wire-line phone service when cellular service is THE most expensive way to place a call. (Not to mention, about 95% of the people in this site have no real reason to say they "need" a cellular phone.
I think I'd certainly call cell and satellite tv companies that lock customers into inescapable contracts (High EFTs) and no recourse to pour service 'preying' on customers... simply marketing a $50 phone service is not preying. And, simply because Vonage and the likes offer a $25 phone service doesn't devalue the cable offering.
And YES, in this message, I am 100% defending cable/comcast on this point.. because you're simply wrong. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Not surprising said by fiberguy :OVER PRICED CELLULAR SERVICE. ANYONE here with a cell phone should rethink about bitching at even a $50 unlimited wire-line phone service when cellular service is THE most expensive way to place a call. (Not to mention, about 95% of the people in this site have no real reason to say they "need" a cellular phone. While I agree with overpriced, I think the rest of your rant is completely unfounded. To me it's worth twice as much to be able to take my phone with me. Even if I'm 8 miles into a long run in the middle of nowhere I can make a call or people can reach me with emergencies. I have TWO phones actually, a main one, and one I run with that I use only for emergencies. | |
| | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Not surprising My main issue, still , over any voip is that there is no accountability for them to have. When ever there are problems, and I'm sure many of us have had them (I'm a vonage sub too) they will always blame your ISP.
It's worth, to me, and many others, to have a company to nail to the wall.
Comcast was accused of failing on a 911 call. At least you can go after them with some luck. If Vonage failed, how are you going to go after them? Your ISP has no accountability for your voice service.
I don't think, in our life time, we will ever see an ISP be help liable for any 3rd party voip service.
Safety is just too important to me, and many others, among other things, to put their full faith in vonage or call vantage.
Does it work? SURE! Is it great? I love mine.. would I put my life in it? NO.. that's why I still have service with other providers.  | |
| | | | | | baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA
·Future Nine Corpor..
| Re: Not surprising fiberguy,
For toys my Magicjacks work pretty well as phones! 
Why should I care who, if anyone, is overseeing MagicJack? Yes I have read the TOS. If I lease a car, I do not own it but that does not mean I do not have the exclusive right to use it. Why do I need rights to my Magicjack phone numbers? Is there a market for used phone numbers? Why do you think I need someone to protect me from Magicjack? If Magicjack does not perform to my satisfaction they loose me as a customer. This is all the protection I need or want, since I have already saved more than what they cost me. If MagicJack folded tomorrow I would care, but only because I would no longer be saving $50/mo.
I think you are referring to nitzan. If so, he is in Georgia. His company is Future Nine. While I disagreed with nitzan about how long Magicjack will be around, this should not be taken as an adverse personal reflection on him. In addition to my two Magicjacks, I have two Future Nine VOIP lines and can say that nitzan is very knowledgeable and provides excellent service. While a bargain, his service costs more than Magicjack's but provides things Magicjack's does not. Future Nine provided local phone numbers which are not yet available in my area from Magicjack and I can turn my computers off, since my ATA (Linsksy PAP2T) connecting me to Future Nine's servers plugs directly into my router.
We will just have to agree to disagree on whether Magicjack provides real phone service. To me it is real because I can do anything with them that I was doing with my AT&T land lines. If Vonage is not a real phone service under your definition, then I guess that the only thing that would qualify would be an ILEC land line and even those lines can go out in storms and fires.
Wanting to have a company to nail to the wall makes you sound litigious.
Not that safety is not important but you seem paranoid over potential but unlikely safety issues. I never suggested that having an alternative was not a good idea. While my phone service is dependent upon my internet connection, that will not prevent me from using my cell phone. I just do not see 911 service or the ability to yak on the phone whenever the mood strikes me as critical.
With respect to your comment about not having 911 service when the grid goes out, that is not likely to happen, because power to my lights, coffee pot, microwave, computers, modem and router is backed up by battery powered inverters. I do not see that AT&T's telephone lines hanging from poles are any safer from errant motorist than Comcast's cables. Accordingly, I do not think I have given up anything with regard to 911 service and/or safety by relying solely on VOIP. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Not surprising Our difference is most likely generational, for one, and the fact that I, like so many others, still hold telephone as a life-line service. (as does the government) If Magic Jack works for you, great. For almost the rest of Americans, including myself, it doesn't, and that's cool.
But, in my eyes, it's not phone service. Phone in this country has a reliability factor which MJ doesn't have. And to call me litigious is not accurate. I am realistic. Since phone is a life line, I, again, like so many, have an expectation for a level of service and for it to be there when you need it. Telephone has five 9's in order to be qualified by just about any PUC in the U.S.. Again, MJ doesn't have that, nor does the likes of Vonage and others.
While you and people like you are ok with having monkey rigged phone service, I'm not looking to have alternatives. Again, people want and expect phone service to be there. Paranoid? Use all those terms you want, but the bottom line, it is you who is out of touch on this subject, not me. If I or others weren't worried about having a phone service available for emergencies, why do we have a 911 system in the first place?
I'm sorry to say this, but I'm going to 'go there' on this next subject. You ARE out of line here. Some things, in life, are deemed so by the greater good of society. In this country, 911 IS critical. Just because you don't doesn't make it right for everyone else, OR, even yourself. In this case, society rules you on this. If you don't think 911 is critical, sorry to say, I'm sure you have family that will. If something major happened to you that put you in a bad spot, or made you a veg and you became a burden on your family because of faulty phone service or lack of 911 in the time of need, I'm CERTAIN your family would try to sue FOR you..
So again, sorry to say this, I don't care if it's "not for you" or not.. this is a case where I can stand back and tell you that you are wrong even for you on your own end. Some things are larger than even one's self and this is one of them.
No matter how many inverters you have/use, or how ever you've "set yourself up".. I still remain on my side that telephone is not designed to need this amount of effort. You're still not convincing me to your side. MJ still isn't "phone service" in my eyes, and others.. it's simply a techs' tool, and a company for someone to make a bunch of money off people before running. I DO still, however, agree that it's a good money savings for as long as you can use it and it's around.. but a phone service..? No. you won't convince me. | |
| | | | | | | | baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA
·Future Nine Corpor..
| Re: Not surprising fiberguy,
Generational? Just how old or young do you think I am?
I do not think it is generational unless you are either so young as to be a whippersnapper or so old to be nearly senile and you do not sound like either. If you recall, I originally asked you for your definition of phone service because it was obviously different than mine. You can define the term phone service anyway you want. The important thing is that we understand that we are ascribing different definitions.
I do not think I called you litigious. What I said is that some of your words made you sound that way. However, one offhand remark is not enough to know if you are truly litigious, so I will accept your representation that you are not.
Monkey rigged? I am out of touch? How? I fully understand the limitations of VOIP. To me those limitations are not critical or even of much importance. To you they are. From my prospective you are excessively worried about minimal possibilities. From your prospective I probably appear naive. If you are not comfortable with what I am that is fine. That is your choice. I am not suggesting that you are out of touch only that we have different priorities and different opinions on how reliable a phone systems needs to be to satisfy our respective needs. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Not surprising In all honesty, regarding giving the likes of Vonage priority and all, I think Vonage would be just as good as say Comcast or Cox. I have both CDV and Vonage. My CDV runs on Comcast, obviously, and my Vonage runs on a Qwest 1.5/896 line. The Vonage in MY home has been FAR superior to that of Comcast. CDV goes down every time the internet connection goes down. I think the CDV service would work better if I ran it over a Qwest DSL connection (which it won't ) but if I had to give an overall rating of CDV over Vonage in MY experience with the product taking MY application to play, the quality of Vonage is superior to that of Comcast CDV.
What does this tell me? The service is still only as strong as the connection running it.
To date, I've yet had a CDV only outage. It's always been CDV and HSI together.
I don't think I could support ISPs having to be required to prioritize Voip. (And I am not assuming you are or are not either) I say this only because I believe the internet is a compilation of all traffic. The moment you give VoIP any priority, then other video providers will want it, and then others, and others.. etc. I still believe that Video already has a delivery system(s) as does phone.
personally, I'd like to see the internet (last mile plants) be capable of handling at LEAST 10 times more (if not more) traffic than it does now. While I don't think that internet is ready for everything tossed at it now, I DO think that in the somewhat near future it's going to have to evolve. I also believe they know this too (the ISPs) and since so much is coming on the horizon, it's a waiting game to see what the best way to upgrade is in order to save capital. So far, no ISP has been immune to that - even Fios has already performed an upgrade to some of it's fiber networks.
I think it will be inevitable that we're going to pay more for the internet in the near future for the mere fact that we're calling for it to do much much more. As revenue lags from one profit center, another will have to pick up the slack to compensate. I think we're slowly seeing this now. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Look at the cell phone this way. I used to pay sprint 59.99 for a 1500 minute plan. BUT, add in the taxes and fees, and the real price was about $82.00 a month. I dumped that when I left, and when I came back I bought a t-mobile prepaid. 10 cents a minute. I am using about 300 minutes a month, and I pay, bingo. $30.00. Period. No taxes, no fees, no early termination fees. The way I see it, if you're not a heavy phone users (i.e. less than 20 minutes a day), then prepay is definitely the way to go. Charge up $100.00, and get a free $50.00 upgrade.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Not surprising said by karlmarx :Look at the cell phone this way. I used to pay sprint 59.99 for a 1500 minute plan. BUT, add in the taxes and fees, and the real price was about $82.00 a month. I dumped that when I left, and when I came back I bought a t-mobile prepaid. 10 cents a minute. I am using about 300 minutes a month, and I pay, bingo. $30.00. Period. No taxes, no fees, no early termination fees. The way I see it, if you're not a heavy phone users (i.e. less than 20 minutes a day), then prepay is definitely the way to go. Charge up $100.00, and get a free $50.00 upgrade. Plus the $1 fee for the days you use your phone. Because they don't offer the .10 per minute plan without it. That's the pay as you go plan, which doesn't even have a 300 minute plan.
So if you use your 20 minutes a day, your bill is now $60. | |
| | | | | | lvrdad_45
join:2001-09-18
Fort Worth, TX
·magicjack.com
| Re: Not surprising Suggest you check your facts....you do not have to pay $1 a day for access with T-mobile...that is ATT. I use a pre paid T mobile phone...purchase 1000 minutes for $100, last me for a year....if I can calculate right, that is 10 cents a minute, with no access charge per day. | |
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Medic63
join:2004-02-15
Butler, PA
| Re: Not surprising T Mobile has a newer plan that does cost $1 a day on days you use the phone, in addition to the pay-as-you-go plan that you have.
»www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/defa···OnsiteAd
There is a whole forum dedicated to it over at Howard forums. | |
| | | | | baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA
·Future Nine Corpor..
| Re: what about 911 service having phone when the power goes out. Chris,
My Magicjacks and Future-Nine lines have 911 or E911 service and since my router, ATA and computers are backed up by a UPS, I have phone service if the electric utility's service goes out.
While I have Comcast HSI, their Digital Voice is not even in the ball park compared to what I pay for my Magicjacks and Future-Nine lines. | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: what about 911 service having phone when the power goes out. You don't even have real phone service and you're trying to compare?? sad. | |
| | | | | baj475
join:2004-11-02
Chico, CA | Re: what about 911 service having phone when the power goes out. fiberguy,
What do you mean I do not have real phone service? What is your definition of real phone service? | |
| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: what about 911 service having phone when the power goes out. MagicJack, sorry to say, is a toy, not phone. Phone is something that is a utility and has a level of protection over seeing it. Have you read the MagicJack terms of service? You basically don't own a thing at all.. no guarantees either.. look close, you don't even have rights to the phone number. And, if anything happens, who is out to protect you?
At least with Telco, there are regulators, with cable, there are franchises and other bodies watching out for your service,with Vonage and other indie voips, even the ones that went under, there was a presence, warnings, and you were able to get out.
MagicJack could fold tomorrow and who's going to care?
As much as I was debating (I forget his screen name, he argues MJ all the time and has his own VOIP, TINY, voip service in CA) I agree with him.. the model is un-sustainable. MJ won't be around long.
What's ok about it simple.. enjoy it while you can. DO we know the model? No.. no one does. Will you save some money for a while? ABSOLUTELY! So it's a good thing to have.. but.. a real phone service? No... it's not.
Not only do you need the ISP.. you have to have a computer running 24/7 and hope IT too doesn't crash.
So come on... you can't pass off Magic Jack as real phone service. I have Comcast, Qwest, and even two vonage lines. I love Vonage.. it works great.. has for a few years... do I put full faith and trust in it? No.. has it been good for me? Sure. Have I worried about them? yes.. do I call doom and gloom on them? no.. Vonage is too big and strong right now. Is it real phone service? Not really... it's not backed by anything, has no transport of its own, is dependent on another service to operate - BUT AT LEAST it has a stand alone piece of hardware that operates it. MagicJack has WAY too many things in its way to go wrong, and we ALL know how stable and reliable windows is, right? (And people, yes, XP has been good, and I know there are people, such as much self, that have had good luck with windows, so spare me the "but my system is stable" BS.. Windows has issues and I'd never trust my home, or family's safety to it and MJ) | |
| | | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Vonage also cant roll a truck for no Dialtone and your ISP has zero obligation for rapid repair service to your broadband just because its your Vonage. to the ISP Vonage is just another data source and your "HSI out" will be worked in when there is time.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| There's also the fact that Comcast's VoIP offering is technically superior to the 3rd-party vendors because they segregate and ensure the bandwidth for you.
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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meh37
@verizon.net | Re: Not surprising Which would matter not at all if they weren't throttling your connection. | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
 ·Comcast
| Ya think? Hmm, I can get "Triple Play" from one provider or I can song and dance with 3 different providers. Most people are going to go for the one-stop deal. I did Comcast Digital Voice because it is $19.99 a month for one year and I have everything unlimited (except internet downloads, lol!).
I save over $50 a month. Being that my wife is still unemployed (and looking as hard as ever!), we have to save and cut spending where ever we can.
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The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary. | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Ya think? said by morbo :cost after 1 year is? $25-39 a month but as I recently learned, Comcast Digital Phone is not tied into the internet like other VOIP providers. That makes a great difference to me!
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Addicted to Broadband Reports. | |
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tmh
@comcast.net
| said by morbo :said by fatmanskinny :Comcast Digital Voice because it is $19.99 a month for one year and I have everything unlimited (except internet downloads, lol!). cost after 1 year is? Unless you make a large volume of calls, unlimited pricing is actually more expensive. I use Callcentric pay-as-you-go and my bill rarely goes over $15. That includes about 400+ minutes of international calling a month. This is our everyday rate, not introductory.
It's cheap only relative to what Verizon charges.
TMH | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| Re: Ya think? I checked how many minutes I use on average and it is over 1100 minutes a month (I have a wife who loves to gab!). So an unlimited plan works for me.
I may actually move from Comcast Digital Voice to Vonage or another VOIP provider. I hear Comcast's phone service is not dependent on the internet and it is separate from the internet but with 2 cell phones, the home phone going out is not that much of a big deal.
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Addicted to Broadband Reports. | |
| 
Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Not shocked at all With the HORRIBLE service I had with Vonage, to the failure of Sunrocket and the dismal performance of ViaTalk, it's certainly not shocking that the indy VoIP providers are bleeding customers. | |
| | 
ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: Not shocked at all Actually, once I went away from a cable provider and moved to DSL my VoIP quality increased greatly. I got two years of service from Viatalk for $198. Hard to beat that. | |
| | | 
BlueMagic
join:2008-03-30
| Re: Not shocked at all said by ptrowski :Actually, once I went away from a cable provider and moved to DSL my VoIP quality increased greatly. I got two years of service from Viatalk for $198. Hard to beat that. I can beat that since I only pay $19.95 per year for magicJack service. Like my beloved former SunRocket service, magicJack is perfect. | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: Not shocked at all Don't jinx it! | |
| 
Gandalf1315
Freelance Philosopher
join:2001-05-23
Indianapolis, IN
·RoadRunner Cable
·Vonage
| This is only taking into account the U.S. market. The article only talks about the United States based VOIP subscribers. Unlike Comcast and the other cable companies, Vonage is not limited to the U.S. market. So the over all growth of Vonage mentioned in this article is inaccurate to say the least. They are not taking into account all of the Canadian and United Kingdom based subscribers that Vonage has overall and have added in the last year.
I am not denying that their growth rate has slowed in the last year here in the United States, but that dont mean they have not made up for it in the Canadian and U.K. markets.
At any rate, we know they have roughly 2.5 million U.S customers. At $20 a month per customer they are still grossing $50 million a month. Between having access to International markets that the cable companies dont, and still seeing growth of 200,000 last year during a recession, I dont think Vonage will be leaving the playing field any time soon unless they are bought out for BIG DOLLARS.
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No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session.--- Benjamin Franklin | |
| 
NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| I'll stick with my small VoIP carrier I've been with a small, independent VoIP carrier and have been VERY happy with the price, the quality and the reliability of the service I get from them. I could use the VoIP product from the cable company, but unlimited long-distance is $20 more than what I'm paying now. As long as my family is spread out all over the nation, I'll stick with my VoIP carrier.
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Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat... | |
| 
SuperCPA
Premium
join:2002-11-28
Dayton, OH | Let's All Forget About The Cable vs. Broadband Connection It does not matter. It all VoIP.
Amen | |
| 
Scree
In the pipe 5 by 5
join:2001-04-24
Mount Laurel, NJ | heh Well at least for folks who know what they're doing, Vonage is a LOT CHEAPER than the cable company's offering (which continues to rise no matter how many new subscribers they claim to be adding). | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Premium for Cable Voip vs 3rd party Voip. Let's keep in mind, cable companies have a SMALL advantage due to the nature of how they allocate bandwidth for their voip service, prioritizing it as separate bandwidth (in most cases) than regular internet data. 3rd party carriers have no such luxury, so in that sense Cable voip is closer to a POTS line as you might get with VOIP. Another thing to know is that while there are new players such as skype & magicjack trying to claim a niche with ultra-low yearly unlimited pricing... carriers such as Vonage have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot by advertising head-to-head with big phone & cable companies! This put them in the line of fire with patent lawsuits and poor financial decisions which have forced them to raise prices. They also add account termination fees/unfees to be greedier than the average Voip company making them barely any value compared to other Voip offerings. This coupled with the fact that many of these companies are barely a decade old (most of them) there were bound to be those that got handed their hats for one reason or another. | |
| pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom
| 'Triple Play' VoIP isn't always better Mediacom, for example, offers voice. And it sucks, big time. I much prefer Vonage, even though it costs a few dollars more.
It makes sense the cable providers would be at an advantage here. For example, I could take their VoIP and pay only about $4 more (as I'm being docked for not taking their television services.) But I still choose to stick with Vonage. Price isn't everything to me.
Naturally most folks like having their tv/phone/internet all on one bill and that $99 deal always sucks them in. | |
| | | nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| Re: Power of Marketing To be perfectly honest.. over here we are perfectly happy serving the more tech-savvy crowd. I'd much rather give you better service at half the price, than cater to Joe Average and have to charge twice as much because Mr. Average doesn't know what a router is.
There are things we can do that cable co's never will:
1. Price, price, price!
2. Mobility- you can use our service anywhere in the world, Cable co's? nope.
3. Virtual numbers- want a number in Paris, and number in New York, and a number in LA? we've got you covered. Cable co's don't do that.
4. Good pricing on international calls.
5. Calling card and callback services.
When it comes down to it, cable "VoIP" is more like a regular phone service than VoIP - it travels over a closed network, the device is locked to the same location, and you get none of the benefits that true VoIP brings.
You can have people say "cable will kill independent VoIP providers" as much as they like - but when it comes down to it we market a totally different product. They're after Joe Average and couldn't care less about tech people or people who want cheap international calls - we're the exact opposite. 
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation | |
| | |
Larry P
@optonline.net
| Re: Power of Marketing Bravo Mr. Nitzan of Future-Nine! Well said!
Clearly there will be some shakeout in the market, but even for the mass market, there IS a role for VoIP carriers who are not owned by the cable companies.
Cable VoIP looks good ONLY in comparison to the landline phone companies. It is very overpriced otherwise.
(Actually, the market could be good for the independent VoIP outfits. The population is getting more tech-savvy, after all).
But the independent VoIP providers and the manufacturers of VoIP phones and ATA's have to do a better job of making things easy to set up. The consumer should not have to worry about ring debounce, polarity, DTMF, etc.
If the companies can make things a little easier, they CAN market to "Joe Average". And T-Mobile's new plan may be one pathway. It will at least introduce people to the concept of a telephone adapter and so forth.
Sears used to be the king, then they were overtaken by K-Mart, who then fell to Wal-Mart, who now is being challenged by Target and others.
Likewise, the cable companies, with their high prices and arrogant attitudes, are in the same place where the landline phone companies were a few years ago. They can be defeated.
Just this week, I canceled an OptimumVoice (Cablevision)phone line, because the monthly rate was going up from $ 30 to $ 35.
Now, that was a lot cheaper than my former Verizon business landline, BUT still overpriced....
....Because I replaced the OptimumVoice line with a CallCentric VoIP line that will probably run me about $ 14 a month.
And at home I have a CallWithUs line that's just about $ 4 a month for outbound. Unbeatable.
Funny thing, all three VoIP-type services (Optimum cable, CallCentric, CallWithUs) have similar quality, even though Optimum cable charges so much more.
And they all sound BETTER than the former Verizon landline that was the most expensive of all!
POTS: Pricey Outdated Telephone Service.
CABLE Phone: Could Actually Be LESS Economical.
Independent VoIP: Value-Oriented Independent Providers.
Happy VoIPing. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| main issue with indie voip is that it depends on the internet. and if someone has a poor connection they get poor phone service. i know from working cable ISP support, a call in the morning for No dialtone for the cable phone and we can try and get someone out by the afternoon. if your HSI is out you get to wait till tommorrow at the earliest and if ya have Vonage then tough cookies.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA |  Vonage Installs?
Now, when I search on their website I do not see anything about this service? Hmm, must just be on TV! | |
| |
Erg is anon
@cogentco.com
| Re: Vonage Installs? said by keyboard5684 :Vonage will go out to the customers home and install it for them. This has been advertised for a month or so now. Now, when I search on their website I do not see anything about this service? Hmm, must just be on TV! Try this: »www.vonage.com/features.php?feat···010003W1
Its free for new residential customers though. | |
| 
hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Cable takes over. But the price is just about the same as POTS when you add in there taxes and fees. Tw wanted 39.99 plus taxes came out to about 47.00 a month OUCH>
i will keep paying 29.99 for phone and all taxes. | |
| | ed56
join:2008-01-13
Cincinnati, OH
·Vonage
| Re: Cable takes over. said by hayabusa3303 :. . . i will keep paying 29.99 for phone and all taxes. Plus the features the stand alones provide like Vonage's Vonage Talk and Vonage Contact Book are really nice, at no exta charge. TW gets excited about caller ID on your TV. I would rather the free international service to Europe, the ability to use Vonage LD directed to a POTS line (like Grand Central), the ablity to answer my home phone from my PC or make calls from my PC (when I am at a hotel or working from my boat) without tying up my home line (like an extra line), etc. | |
|
tech25
@comcast.net
| This sucks :( Like everything else with cable, what is $30/mo this year will be $40/mo next year.
Plus I can't take my cable modem/ATA adapter with me on vacation, or to another place (what if there was a natural disaster, etc), plug into any Internet connection, and still have my phone ring.
Do you really want all your eggs in one basket? Cable provide the bandwith, someone else provide the dialtone. | |
| | pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA | Re: This sucks :( Good point. Vonage and similar VoIP have some natural advantages over cable VoIP solutions, for example. Being able to throw my Vonage adapter in my suitcase and take it on the road (along with the Vonage Talk soft phone) are real nice indeed. | |
| wphelps
join:2002-10-30
Newport News, VA
| Vonage will probably recover They have settled most of the patent lawsuits -- which were scaring away customers. And, their business plan must look pretty good, because they just got handed a wad of CASH. | |
| | | | | Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | Re: Vonage will probably recover Tech companies are all hurting now.
Vonage has a good thing going. Their service is solid, hardly something that could be said for any VoIP provider that isn't from an MSO. | |
| | | |
Larry P
@optonline.net
| Re: Vonage will probably recover I can't comment on Vonage.
But I would respectfully disagree that it's hard to find good VoIP service outside of a cable company (MSO).
Just as one example, take a look at the excellent reviews for CallCentric.
By contrast, many cable companies have poor reviews for their voice products.
With a company like CallCentric, their whole focus is on VoIP.
With a cable company, it's an afterthought after TV and internet. | |
| Iamvoip
join:2008-07-27
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
| The new revolution is here I love this article so much! There is a one and only one single solution that requires an ATA box and the same phone you currently use. It is Like Vonage but only it's on Steroids as far as service Price ease of use and Features it's business Class for $20 a month which includes E-fax voice mail and Find Me follow me, 3-way calling, an 800# and all the usual features all included never any extra charges, Plus no long distance. The coolest part of this VOIP phone service is that like a few have commented here it is a Problem at some point using VOIP due to the different Networks. This New Phone service is really not a service at all it's a Phone Company and in the coming years it is going to more than likely put the Vonages and the Bells out of business and as for the cable companies well they will continue to stick to what they know which is Cable. Due to the nature of this Site I am not a liberty to share the name of it but if you a are interested to find out more about the only true VOIP Phone company on the Planet, Feel free to Im Me or send an e-mail. | |
| radam
join:2004-02-13
Fairfax Station, VA
·Cox HSI
·Vonage
1 edit | .. Results offer insights into the consumer buying habits These results are amazing to me considering Vonage is an order of magnitude cheaper and offers more value than the service cable provides. For something around ~$18 per month I have unlimited phone calls domestically and to most European countries and the call quality is great.
Cox costs, with equivalent service, about $41 per month plus per minute charges. Verizon costs about ~$44 per month. So the I guess people do buy for convenience rather than wise shopping!
I'd be curious to know how many of the Cox Telephone customers also subscribe to HSI from Cox. | |
| kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:
| There is plenty of room for the niche providers..... Like VoIP providers that support Asterisk, offer simultaneous calling (multiple channels), and other customization of services.
While these aren't exactly tailored to the cookie-cutter mass residential VoIP offerings the cable companies provide, it's a way to differentiate their product which will have an appeal to certain users. | |
| | Blackened
Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| I'd rather not have VOIP But landlines and cell phones (Metro aside) simply gouge the crap out of you with international calling costs. It would cost an arm and leg to talk as much as I do to my fiancee in Greece, and would continue costing that much to talk to her family when our visa petition process is complete.
I'd ditch VOIP in a heartbeat, but there really is no cost-effective alternative. | |
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Independent VoIP Companies Fade as Cable Takes Over
