Frontier Plans To Enforce 5GB Cap In 'December Or January'Technician hints that Frontier's own services won't count against cap.... ( old news - 05:32PM Wednesday Aug 13 2008) tags: business · caps · FrontierNet Internet AccessMy conversations with Frontier insiders indicate that company executives really hadn't fully cooked their cap plans before burying a reference to a 5GB monthly usage cap into their customer acceptable use policy, and the company's website and support seem to confirm this. Customers concerned about the cap get a different answer from company support depending who they talk to. One Frontier support rep has informed a customer that the current plan is to begin enforcing the cap sometime in December or January. From a Frontier technician to a user in an e-mail: we are not currently enforcing this policy and we have been informed that, at the present, the plan is to start the enforcement part of the policy in December or January. . . I do know that we have been made aware that certain activities such as carbonite backup and other services we offer can be excluded from the bandwidth usage. In other words, bandwidth used by Frontier's online storage services won't count against your cap, but similar competing services will. That's obviously going to raise problems for Frontier on the network neutrality front. As an aside, I notice that Frontier has updated the website tasked with convincing customers how reasonable a 5GB monthly limit is (it isn't). The site remains, well, a little contradictory: We all love the Internet, and Frontier is committed to offering you all the bandwidth you need and want to take full advantage of the Web! Our basic residential Internet packages offers 5GB usage -- that's the equivalent of 500,000 basic text e-mails, 2,500 Photos, 40,000 Web Pages, over 300 Hours of Online Game Time, 1,250 downloaded songs, or a mixture of the above! So you can get all the bandwidth you need or want, just don't use more than 5GB? It's pretty clear at this point that Frontier execs were so dizzy with lust at the idea of caps and overage fees they hadn't fully hashed the idea out, and may not have expected users to actually read their terms of service. It's generally a good idea to actually know what you're doing before tasking your marketing and support departments with explaining the change to customers. Related:- Frontier Imposes 5 GB Cap For DSL
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 |  |   DaMaGeINC The Lan Man Premium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC clubs: | Re: 5GB? Ive done 15GB this week. I would never be able to use their service. Forget downloading anything. You wont be able to. I think my mother uses more than 5GB a month, and she well, hahahaha. Get it. | |
|  |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| Re: 5GB? said by DaMaGeINC :Forget downloading anything. That's the whole point. As this story illustrates, they plan to offer services for sale over their pipe, by the Byte (or by the GB), and they don't want sales of those services cannabalized by their unmetered (but capped) internet access offering.
Those that don't like it can move to an area served by a different DSL proviver. | |
|  |  |  |   guitarzan Premium join:2004-05-04 Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: 5GB? said by PDXPLT :said by DaMaGeINC :Forget downloading anything. That's the whole point. As this story illustrates, they plan to offer services for sale over their pipe, by the Byte (or by the GB), and they don't want sales of those services cannabalized by their unmetered (but capped) internet access offering. Those that don't like it can move to an area served by a different DSL proviver Exactly, moving to cable service to ditch this 5GB bullshit !!!!
frontier can stick their pipe up their azz, after they pull their head out of it, unless they have enough capacity for both. Then by all means frontier, enjoy the experience of both options at once, your greedy executives certainly earned it.
frontier, you may want to carefully examine that same cavity to discover methods to attract new & retain current subscribers, who will not find 5GB 30 day BS limit attractive.
Goodbye Jackflush, Dishnet work and landline. Hello faster cheaper Comcast internet & cable service. Time to move over to Verizon cell.
Hey frontier executives BYTE my pipe you greedy bastid smart imbeciles. -- It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism? With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
|  |  |  |   yodacallmesome
@frontiernet.net
| "Those that don't like it can move to an area served by a different DSL provider."
So what about areas where there is no alternative? I live in an area where there are no cable companies, no other DSL provider choices. Frontier has a monopoly here. | |
|  |  |  |  |   guitarzan Premium join:2004-05-04 Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: 5GB? said by yodacallmesome : "Those that don't like it can move to an area served by a different DSL provider."
So what about areas where there is no alternative? I live in an area where there are no cable companies, no other DSL provider choices. Frontier has a monopoly here. I do not like it, however I ain't about to move to get silly broadband, that's a totally stupid idea suggested. All broadband in the home is, is just a want, a luxury item.
To Telcos offering dsl & dish TV or other services, it's the life or death of a corporation. Go with the alternative and let them sink, as I will be doing come the end of September. Refuse to be ripped off. Chit can Frontiers dsl service, do not buy their dial up service. Frontier can go choke on the big one and their dsl for all I care. They need me more to buy their service(s), more than I need or them or their bottle-necked, restricted internet service.
Life will improve, no CSR headaches, no service outages, no losing $40.+ dollars a month which can be better invested or enjoyed elsewhere. -- It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism? With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
|  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| If I were a customer, I'd call them up and say since I am billed based upon usage, do I get the money back for the parts I don't consume. Seeing full well if I pay for 10 gallons of gas, and use 5, they credit back my credit card. 5GB is bare bottom for anyone beyond the basics. Still, I am sure there's a good percentage who probably wont hit 1GB a month. Do they see an 80 percent refund? I'd seriously like to see someone challenge these plans in court on this very basis. If you are going to give a fixed price for a cap, and charge overage, then those who go under should see their money returned. I'd bet this would put a quick end to this shit. | |
|  |  |   guitarzan Premium join:2004-05-04 Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: 5GB? said by jc100 :If I were a customer, I'd call them up and say since I am billed based upon usage, do I get the money back for the parts I don't consume. Seeing full well if I pay for 10 gallons of gas, and use 5, they credit back my credit card. 5GB is bare bottom for anyone beyond the basics. Still, I am sure there's a good percentage who probably wont hit 1GB a month. Do they see an 80 percent refund? I'd seriously like to see someone challenge these plans in court on this very basis. If you are going to give a fixed price for a cap, and charge overage, then those who go under should see their money returned. I'd bet this would put a quick end to this shit. Either that or customers should demand exactly what frontiers TOS offers its customers. I want the 5GB free service no more. 
»www.frontieronline.com/5GB/ quote: Home » FREE 5GB of Internet Usage
Why pay $40.++ per month for FREE service?
In my area, frontier, did not invest $$$ into network infrastructure. Commonwealth telephone/Epix, already made the investment of installing RT's. frontier upgraded nothing. Corporate greed putting its best face forward. -- It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism? With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
|  |  |  |  jc100
join:2002-04-10 | Re: 5GB? HAH. If I were you and that remains in the TOS, I'd sign a couple year contract then let them know you won't be paying your bill. After all, you are guaranteed 5GB free a month. Since thats the cap, there is no need to send them anything. | |
|  |  |   big jake
| I don't think they should get money back. I think they should have set tiers like cell companies use. You get to pick what you think you will use and if you constantly use under then maybe you should switch to a smaller plan. | |
|  |  |  |   dellsweig Extreme Aerobatics Premium,MVM join:2003-12-10 Campbell Hall, NY
·Time Warner VOIP
| Wow - Never really thought too much about this.
We are a typical household - VoIP for phone, work from home a few days a week - not too much in the way of downloads (no P2P)
Well - Look at my monthloy usage graph for July - June was worse
This is not going to be good...... | |
|  |   Anon Coward
@verizon.net
| said by exocet_cm :Actually this week I've hit 11GB. week! WEEK! I hit that daily on a regular basis. Arrrrrrggghhh! | |
|  |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| 300hrs of online gaming, of course they leave out the patching of said online gaming. World of Warcraft for example moves several gigs for a fresh install to come up to date. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|   DaMaGeINC The Lan Man Premium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC clubs: | LSD This is what happens when the entire country was on LSD in the 60's. | |
|  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: LSD said by DaMaGeINC :This is what happens when the entire country was on LSD in the 60's. Actually I think it's more likely they didn't have enough LSD and are way too far into the "Greed is Good" mentality.
They claim it's about network management, but then they say "but only everybody else's traffic..."
Uh huh. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|   insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN
1 edit | Way out of touch They are offering 12 days of online gaming. Last time I heard people buy those subscriptions by the month, so they are only allowing you to use half of your WoW or other 24/7 game subscription. I also wouldn't doubt their 300 hour estimation uses a conservative bandwidth figure. I think it would make the most sense to leave gaming off the list if you are going to implement a 5gb cap. At least they left VoIP off the list. I would also like to know how youTube fits into their 40,000 web page figure. They either have to lower that web page figure a lot or specify that number does not include webpages with videos or pictures. | |
|  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Dollar Signs Get in Their Eyes It's generally a good idea to actually know what you're doing before tasking your marketing and support departments with explaining the change to customers. One would think that would be the way it's done, Karl, but, as evidenced by clueless executives running companies like Frontier & Comcrap, it is the exception rather than the rule. | |
|   IamtheBatman
@covad.net
| Or ... "We all love the Internet, and Frontier is committed to offering you all the bandwidth you need and want to take full advantage of the Web! Our basic residential Internet packages offers 5GB usage -- that's the equivalent of 500,000 basic text e-mails, 2,500 Photos, 40,000 Web Pages, over 300 Hours of Online Game Time, 1,250 downloaded songs, or a mixture of the above!"
one 720p Xbox Live movie rental.  | |
|   Xizer
join:2004-02-05 New York, NY
| Who is paying these morons? I could take a shit and it would be a better CEO than whoever is running these companies.
This lowball cap is going to kill off this puny little company's already tiny subscriber base. I guess whoever's in charge here wants their company to go bankrupt. | |
|  |  voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27 Kalispell, MT
4 edits | Re: Who is paying these morons? This isn't a puny little company. They're a nationwide RLEC. Unfortunately, they're not the only ones planning on implementing low caps. Clearly, the first word on TW's proposed caps is that it'll be the same--5 GB. (Maybe Frontier is waiting to see if TW goes through with a nationwide implementation of their cap.) Even Comcast's proposed cap, although clearly very generous when compared with TW and Frontier, is being lowered and could drop again, if they decide that TW, Frontier and others can get by with this level of greed. (I still say these CEOs' greed will kill their companies. They just don't get it--"It's the economy, stupid!"--broadband access isn't essential like food, shelter and energy. People will drop expensive broadband when their budgets get stretched to the hilt (and we're almost there). Caps are an under handed way that may enable them to get rate hikes without drawing as much scrutiny from state and local regulators (the only ones who've ever seemed remotely concerned about consumers). The other big issue is net neutrality, since so many of these companies are dual or triple-hatted. If they want to implement caps, then I think they need to spin off those portions of their companies that provide content or services and clog their own pipes. Make those companies play on a level field and have their content count towards caps (then let them take multiple revenue hits as they lose customers both as ISPs and content/value-added service providers.) | |
|  |  |  |   aw3dhg
join:2001-09-05 Middletown, NY
·EarthLink
| said by Xizer :I could take a shit and it would be a better CEO than whoever is running these companies. This lowball cap is going to kill off this puny little company's already tiny subscriber base. I guess whoever's in charge here wants their company to go bankrupt. I can only hope they go under as soon as humanly possible .. they (because of small company protectionism) are the single reason I will never see fios in my area .. die frontier ... die .... -- [img]»www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg[/img] | |
|   funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Memo to Frontier Give it up. You were caught. Reverse course and admit it.
The best way to kill a scandal is to admit you were wrong.
Signed,
...the good people at...
Comcast Martha Stewart Balco Worldcom Arthur Anderson Qwest Tyco Countrywide, and the Office of Sen. John Edwards -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon More fun, more features, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
| |
|  moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD | How are they going to accurately track usage? Seriously, how accurately can they track usage if certain stuff is free and outside stuff is not?
 | |
|  |   insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN | Re: How are they going to accurately track usage? Very easily. They can separately count traffic meant for the internet vs traffic on their own network. And exempt any internet IP addresses they want. Basically it's a class action lawsuit waiting to happen. | |
|  IanR
join:2001-03-22 Madison, NJ
| Frontier managment? One has to wonder at the abilities of the Frontier management's thinking that they could sneak these "unrealistic" and "uncompetitive" and "unreasonable" caps on their customers. Do they seriously believe they can charge "unresonable" "overusage" fees on their customers without major and proactive opposition developing? Any savings, they are computing, will most certainly be eaten up in legal fees and management fees, fighting customers and organizations promoting neutrality and fairness?
The end results: 0 Loss of good customers. 0 High legal fees 0 An ultimate climb down 0 Regulatory reviews I could go on, but I think the message is clear. Frontier appear to have extremely poor management who are unlikely to be in place thru 2009. | |
|  |  voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27 Kalispell, MT
| Re: Frontier managment? It's not just Frontier--the Baby Bells and the 2 largest cable providers have announced caps. Heck the major cellular carriers all now have caps for cellular data. Unless consumers complain loudly about all the issues raised by these proposals, expect to see the majority of broadband capped within the next 6-12 months. We all need to complain loudly and frequently to local, state and federal officials about the implicatons of these caps--unreasonable rates as well as killing net neutrality (all these big players don't just provide the pipes--they want to glut their pipes with their content--making multiple dollars off each customer while closing their pipes to competitors, through the use of caps for anyone else's content). The squeaky wheel truly gets the oil. If we only talk on forums like this but don't contact officials involved in regulating these industries, no one, especially the executives of these companies, will listen to us. | |
|   logcabinboy
join:2001-07-23 Whitmore, CA clubs:
·FrontierNet Intern..
| I will cancel I won't use their broadband connection with only a 5 gig cap. I already pay 3 times the price opposed to AT&T for their most basic connection. I'll go back to dialup or Sat, since I don't game anymore. I can create a VPN tunnel to my mothers DSL and download the crap I want. | |
|  |   winterforge Premium join:2000-07-23 Roanoke, TX clubs:  | 5GB?! 5GB?! You wouldn't even be able to download a few game demos or even download one decent sized game from Direct2Drive.com or similar websites. 5GB a week would even be too harsh, but monthly is beyond belief and completely infeasible. | |
|   Bagnon Snoogans
join:2000-11-19 St Catharines, ON | Brutal. It will be very interesting to see the backlash once this is implemented. I can guarantee there will be a large amount of customers with red faces. -- ----gg's and happy gaming---- | |
|   pog Premium join:2004-06-03 Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| They have their stats... Well, I assume they have usage stats and know, in advance, who'll be affected.
However, I have to think their demographics are more than a little off... if they think they'll only be driving out belligerent, pimply-faced, file-sharing bandwidth hogs that is.
I know quite a few folks streaming audio/video from places like bluebeat or netflix that easily do 25-50GB per month... many of these were the stereotypical grandma-types that used to just stick to email, occasionally wandering off to cnn, etc.
I suppose the old stereotype will still exist but why cater to a dwindling marketshare? Why alienate the rest? -- My Site | |
|   mrchris We don't miss you Bush Premium join:2002-10-01 North Babylon, NY | Hah Good luck retaining customers who leave! | |
|  |  older dog Premium join:2005-06-09 Norwich, NY
| Re: Hah said by mrchris :Good luck retaining customers who leave! Frontier specializes in providing telephone and internet in areas that have no competition. They have customers from coast to coast affecting customers in New York to Calif and many areas in between | |
|  |  |   jmoz2989
join:2008-02-01 Moscow, PA
·Adams CATV
| Re: Hah I wonder what Frontier was thinking when they purchased Commonwealth Telephone Company in northeast PA. Their main competition is Comcast and all Comcast has to do is get its CDV going and the people will start coming over from Frontier. Central New York however may have a problem, b/c TWC hasn't covered all areas of NY yet. | |
|  |  |  |  older dog Premium join:2005-06-09 Norwich, NY
| Re: Hah Just guessing it was the same out of touch executives or consultants who proposed that 5 gig was enough.
It truly is amazing, I am sure that the last thing Frontier wants is to have the Government regulate the broadband industry. Yet being the one to impose a cap so low that it is deemed absurd by all even the cooperate shills. They have moved us further down that road then any interest group could ever have dreamed of at this point in time.
Maybe the forthcoming regulation should be named after Frontier, say the "Frontier equal access and usage bill"  | |
|   Smith6612 Premium join:2008-02-01 united state
·FrontierNet Intern..
·Verizon Online DSL
·Dish Network
3 edits | 5GB is low... It seems like this month, even though it's only the 13th of August my Verizon connection has already felt the burn of 13GB of downloaded data just because of reinstalling Steam and all of my games, game patches (about 2GB of them for only 3 games), updates for Windows, AND Youtubing, gaming, and forum'ing. Steam itself on my 768k connection, just to download all of my games along with the game SDKs, and some extra games like TrackMania: Nations United and the Empires 2.1 mod took the connection 2 days to download it. Not to mention, the last 3 days I spent time uploading 1.6GB worth of backups to xDrive, going at 128kbps. Doesn't take me long to burn through rediculus caps.
So yeah, Frontier should consider not placing caps. Usage is only going to go up, and some day or another they'll end up like Comcast, getting lawsuits and everything for capping. Honestly, while I like Frontier as a company, they're just digging themself a hole.
EDIT: I've been downloading soo much, the modem finally decided to reboot itself earlier today. | |
|   Xizer
join:2004-02-05 New York, NY | You can download more than 5 GB in a month with DIAL-UP
Assuming you run a dial-up connection 24/7, you can download around 15 GB a month.
That is pathetic. FrontierNet is planning on offering 1/3 the capability of a dial-up connection. | |
|  |  |   KC9FOI
join:2007-06-25 Cypress, TX | Re: Contacted Frontier to cancel If they made this change to the TOS really recently and you just learned of it, you should be let out with no termination fees. It is a change of terms/contract that you don't accept. | |
|  Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22 Des Plaines, IL | monthly windows updates + office alone can hit 100mb + per s monthly windows updates + office alone can hit 100mb + per system.
adding other app updates / dirvers will push that even higher. | |
|  ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23 Tuscaloosa, AL
| We know about this... ...but how many normal, everyday users do? Not many, I'd wager. Remember, the folks here are knowledgeable power users, very much unlike the majority of Internet users out there.
My point is that Frontier and the other ISP's will move forward with things like this as long as they feel they can get away with it. The very same thing happened with the NebuAD fiasco. Once the shit hit the fan, the participating ISP's couldn't get away from that scheme fast enough.
Fortunately, I don't live anywhere near Frontier's service area, but if you happen to, make a very noisy, very public issue of it. If you have service, call and inquire whether your ETF will be waived due to this change in service. Do it whether you plan to cancel or not. And, if you manage Internet access for a parent or grandparent, call in on their behalf. And contact your local media outlets to let them know about this. And, if you happen to know several other folks in your area who oppose this, organize yourselves into a grass-roots group and send out a press release to the media about this issue. Make these scumbags stay awake at night wondering how many customers are about to bail on them when this goes into effect. | |
|  |   ftrain
@telenetwork.com
| god I work for frontier, and no one is more pissed off about it then us reps. we are the ones who have to deal with it, not upper admins. The only way to stop them is to drop service.
i work for frontier, yet i dont use their service for a reason. My DSL has gone down 1 time in 4 years. Thanks much. | |
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