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story category New Comcast Throttling System From Sandvine?
New 'protocol agnostic' solution simply software update for existing hardware...
(old news - 09:32AM Monday Aug 25 2008)
tags: Fileswapping · hardware · bandwidth · networking
Sandvine Corporation, whose traffic shaping hardware sits at the heart of the Comcast P2P throttling controversy, was considered one of the tech-sector's hottest companies just last year. But the network neutrality fight, credit crunch and slowed earnings have beaten down the company's stock. With Comcast moving to a "protocol agnostic" solution (aka caps and over-use fees), is Sandvine's future in doubt? Probably not. They've already developed a new "protocol agnostic" software update for the exiting hardware:

Introduced in May, FairShare, which can be added to existing Sandvine deployments via software, "is oriented toward identifying the sources of congestion in a non-application-specific way, and applies policies to address that congestion to ensure fair use and fair access to network resources by a broad mix of users," Donnelly explains.
That obviously sounds very similar to the new system Comcast is testing called "fair share" that will throttle excessive users back to "DSL like speeds" for between ten and twenty minutes.

Related:
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  3. New Docs Show FCC Glossed Over BPL Flaws
  4. Google Starts Discussion About Speeding Things Up
  5. Netgear To Make Consumption Meters 'Standard'
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  8. Metrocast Offers Fiber To The Home
Forums » New Comcast Throttling System From Sandvine?
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DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
Metairie, LA
clubs:

Stupid...

I wonder how much bandwidth could have been added to the network with the cost of these boxes?
permalink · 2008-08-25 09:45:11 · Reply to this

hairspring

join:2007-11-23
Oakville, ON

Re: Stupid...

Obviously not as much as these boxes save. ISP's are all about money. If it didn't make financial sense, they wouldn't be doing it.
permalink · 2008-08-25 09:56:08 · Reply to this

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Stupid...

said by hairspring See Profile :

Obviously not as much as these boxes save. ISP's are all about money. If it didn't make financial sense, they wouldn't be doing it.
Yeah. after all those yacht payments aren't cheap. can't be letting the yachts go to hell by spending money on network upgrades.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
permalink · 2008-08-25 20:49:49 · Print · Reply to this

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

Comcast presented details on protocol agnostic plans

Look at slides 13-15 from this technical presentation that Comcast made at an IETF(Internet Engineering Task Force) workshop back in May.

»downloads.comcast.net/docs/Comca···0528.pdf

Slide 13


Slide 14


Slide 15
permalink · 2008-08-25 09:57:04 · Print · Reply to this

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:

Re: Comcast presented details on protocol agnostic plans

Interesting.....
Slide 13 really caught my eye as the mention competing services as real-time apps, and will "attempt" to not affect them.
permalink · 2008-08-25 10:09:08 · Reply to this

avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ

these slides

These slides deserve a topic to themselves
permalink · 2008-08-25 10:11:33 · Reply to this

GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

3 edits

Re: these slides

said by avd706 See Profile :

These slides deserve a topic to themselves
Comcast also keeps updating info on this topic at this web page:
»www.comcast.net/terms/network/

Especially check out the section of this page with downloads of presentations made on the topic in PDF format.

Also check out links about "traffic optimization" that the IETF is evaluating here:

Application-Layer Traffic Optimization (ALTO) Birds of a Feather (BoF) meetings. Comcast is participating in IETF 72.
»www3.tools.ietf.org/agenda/72/alto.html

And there is a multi-page discussion of Comcast's new technique of throttling here at BBR:
»[Speed] Comcast to throttle individual users; all protocols
permalink · 2008-08-25 10:13:55 · Print · Reply to this

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

Re: these slides

This is very common sense what comcast is doing rather then messing with protocols. Throttling connections down temporarily is the answer, to bandwidth hogs. Voip, etc should always be protected. Eventually comcast gets it.
permalink · 2008-08-25 13:04:41 · Reply to this

jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
said by GOLFnSUN See Profile :

Also check out links about "traffic optimization" that the IETF is evaluating here:

Application-Layer Traffic Optimization (ALTO) Birds of a Feather (BoF) meetings. Comcast is participating in IETF 72.
»www3.tools.ietf.org/agenda/72/alto.html
There were two good relevant BoFs at IETF 72 a few weeks ago. One was ALTO, as you noted. That did not become a working group yet - there will be a 2nd BoF. ALTO is focused on how to standardize P4P-style optimizations of P2P, such as P4P iTrackers. I'd expect some good content at IETF 73 at the ALTO BoF. The agenda from the 72nd meeting is at »www3.tools.ietf.org/agenda/72/alto.html and you will note we contributed to the requirements document at »www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dra···s-00.txt .

The other relevant BoF was TANA, see agenda at »www3.tools.ietf.org/agenda/72/tana.html, where we presented (see »downloads.comcast.net/docs/IETF%···cast.pdf). TANA is expected to become an official working group before the 73rd meeting. This is very focused on congestion notification mechanisms, as well as bulk data classes.

JL
permalink · 2008-08-25 22:23:21 · Print · Reply to this

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP

1 edit

Fine, so long as there is truth in advertising

Let them put the same FAP disclosures that sat providers have, including what in detail triggers a FAP, so people know what they're buying before hand.

But FAPs & caps still don't make much sense. If it's about network management the FAP system alone would handle it. If there is no congestion within a particular cable system, there is no need to hammer uses with draconian network management.
permalink · 2008-08-25 10:08:27 · Reply to this
deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA
·Cox HSI

Too bad

It's too bad they can't just be honest. They should just admit that they are doing this because they desire more control over their networks due to all of the impending competition.

Network congestion is a made up problem that they are using to hide their true intentions. P2P and Piracy are the 2 boogeymen that they use to scare us and try and reinforce their position on controlling "Network Congestion".
permalink · 2008-08-25 10:44:50 · Reply to this
AstroBoy

join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD

Will the new system Throttle or forge packets?

Will the new system Throttle or forge packets?
permalink · 2008-08-25 12:58:32 · Reply to this

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

Re: Will the new system Throttle or forge packets?

said by AstroBoy See Profile :

Will the new system Throttle or forge packets?
No.
permalink · 2008-08-25 17:51:15 · Reply to this
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime

join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

isn't tiered speeds enough?

I don't understand why this is even an issue for the ISP's, because as it is, we're not using the full speed potential of our modems, so what's the worry? If we purchase a 10/1 tier, or a 5/384 tier, or even a 15/2 tier, we're already being limited by our level of service we pay for, so shouldn't that be enough? If ISP's no longer want to provide speed upgrades, which they use to not mind doing, then hell open the line wide up, and let us experience the full potential of our cable/DSL lines when not congested, and throttle back when we truly are. If they're obsessed with throttling even with speed limits already set, it makes no sense! If you get a T1 line, you know you're going to get 1.5/1.5Mbit/sec, so if you're getting a specific speed tier, that's what you should get, regardless of what protocol you may be using! If ISP's must throttle, they better tel you to what speeds, and for how long, but like I said, we're already throttled in a sense based on what package we get, so why can't that be enough?
permalink · 2008-08-25 13:59:00 · Print · Reply to this
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Re: isn't tiered speeds enough?

Some times you need to have a DSL limit set lower then plan level as the line can't hit the full speed with out going out.
permalink · 2008-08-25 14:30:37 · Reply to this
Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet

 Because in America people have been spoiled. I'm not taking up for ISP's who work around rather than act up front (Doing what they claim the customer is doing).

But, they do sell speed, they don't sell bulk bandwidth usage. This would never have happened if the mighty few had curbed abuse of residential lines. Normal 'Joe' is probably going to use 1-10G a month; not 300G.

There are two culprits in this scenario, Cable and customers and only one has control.
permalink · 2008-08-27 08:33:01 · Reply to this

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

"Fair share" huh

sounds alot like FAP to me.
permalink · 2008-08-25 20:54:04 · Reply to this
Forums » New Comcast Throttling System From Sandvine?

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