ISP Sale Of User Browsing Data May Soon Explode Hitwise, flood of others getting into clickstream/behavioral ad biz Thursday Oct 02 2008 14:01 EDT Long before there were fights over NebuAD or Phorm, ISPs were selling your browsing data to traffic-ranking websites like Compete and Hitwise. This was only really clarified last year, when Compete's CEO said the sale of such data was a big business, and that ISPs were making around $5 per user, per month. This never really got much attention because users are generally privacy clueless, and ISPs either don't talk about it, or deny they're doing it. But while the sale of clickstream data has never gotten the same Congressional attention recently bestowed on behavioral advertising (despite no consumer opt-out functionality), that may soon change. While Hitwise has traditionally only used your data for website traffic analysis, the Register notes that a recent patent dispute revealed that they're developing an advertising technology based on that data. The Times Online says the project is being spearheaded by credit-checking firm Experian, which purchased Hitwise last year for $240 million: quote: Observers expect it to compete in part with Phorm, an AIM-listed company that has stirred controversy after being recruited by BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media to track their 10m customers� behaviour so they can be sent advertising messages on the websites they are looking at.
Hitwise denies they're working on such a project, and the fact that Congress is pondering opt-in only privacy legislation means many U.S. behavioral advertising pushes are on hold at the moment. But it's very likely that once marketing industry lobbyists get done with Congress, you'll see a flood of new Phorm and Nebuad-esque targeted advertising. Maybe you'll have a say in the matter -- and maybe you won't. |
funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA 1 edit |
Hmmm... AT&T's On-Ramp?From the Times article » business.timesonline.co. ··· 8387.ece ... Through Hitwise, the web-site company it acquired for £120m a year ago, Experian has held talks with internet service providers to sell its monitoring technology.
...The company has recruited a heavyweight board, including David Dorman, the former boss of AT&T... This involves software a 3rd-party is installing inside your ISP to collect information from your data. It doesn't matter to me that Hitwise isn't an advertiser. It's not the ads that are so offensive, it's the non-optional spying! Related Topic: » Experian (the credit reporting agency) to track net users | |
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Sick of this carpIt's one thing to be spying for national security but for financial gain.... | |
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1 recommendation |
Why should we care?If it's not attached to anyone personally...than who cares. If it's just "anon user 1554623 did this, this, and this" than who cares. Really..why should anyone care?
I could be wrong here but that's how I read it. | |
| | ctggzg Premium Member join:2005-02-11 USA |
ctggzg
Premium Member
2008-Oct-2 3:00 pm
Re: Why should we care?said by DSLdewd:If it's not attached to anyone personally...than who cares. If it's just "anon user 1554623 did this, this, and this" than who cares. Really..why should anyone care? I could be wrong here but that's how I read it. Yeah, but a lot of people fear what they don't understand. Just look at all the alleged computer experts who use NoScript or software firewalls. Paranoia is rampant. | |
| | | knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN
1 recommendation |
Re: Why should we care?said by ctggzg:Yeah, but a lot of people fear what they don't understand. Just look at all the alleged computer experts who use NoScript or software firewalls. Paranoia is rampant. I'm certain that the NoScript or Software Firewalls people are probably trying to avoid virus and spyware more than someone getting anonymous click data that they have no control over anyway. | |
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| DataDocMy avatar looks like me, if I was 2D. Premium Member join:2000-05-14 Hedgesville, WV ·StarLink ·HughesNet
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to DSLdewd
said by DSLdewd:If it's not attached to anyone personally...than who cares. If it's just "anon user 1554623 did this, this, and this" than who cares. Really..why should anyone care? I could be wrong here but that's how I read it. The thing is they have to make it anonymous by removing an way to link back to a user. And it's just annoying to be tracked without permission. What if every time you left home, your every move was watched, and they tracked every stop you made, what you looked at, etc. But they said "We'll erase your name from the report, so it's anonymous. But we won't stop doing it, even if you ask." Still ok with it? | |
| | | Wills9 join:2001-01-03 Port Charlotte, FL |
Wills9
Member
2008-Oct-2 3:18 pm
Re: Why should we care?Of course they are. As long as people keep acting like sheep, there will always be wolves. | |
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Sandy Cosser to DataDoc
Anon
2008-Oct-3 9:46 am
to DataDoc
Having your movements monitored online is nothing like having them monitored offline. For one, companies like Phorm aren't interested in using your information against you, and their kind of monitoring certainly won't put your life at risk.
And for another, you maintain an element of control over the information that you give out and over the information that is tracked/collected/monitored.
I think the main point of your argument is that you find being tracked annoying. So opt out, and have done with. | |
| | | | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
Re: Why should we care?Again, you can't "opt out" of this other than choosing not to use the broadband ISP -- and at most US and Canada addresses, you have 1-2 broadband ISPs, none of which are respecting your privacy. | |
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| funchords 1 edit |
to DSLdewd
said by DSLdewd:If it's not attached to anyone personally...than who cares. If it's just "anon user 1554623 did this, this, and this" than who cares. Really..why should anyone care? Because, if it's click-stream data, it's anon user 1554623 2008-10-02 193307.324 GMT - hXXp://www.dslreports.com/speak/remark,21204812;cc83n8293rn89hhfch9ehnf278hnc9hgu7hgfshurh9283h9vbvr2978yr9b23ycbr92yb923ycbr923yc b8923rybc9y which ISPs have already been selling. Now, with their spying box inside the network, they possibly can also see what you're seeing on that page in real time! Every word you type. So "anon user 1554623" doesn't anonymize me, since they can just look at who posted a reply into Topic 21204812 at that time and date and see that it's me. | |
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Re: Why should we care?said by funchords:said by DSLdewd:If it's not attached to anyone personally...than who cares. If it's just "anon user 1554623 did this, this, and this" than who cares. Really..why should anyone care? Because, if it's click-stream data, it's anon user 1554623 2008-10-02 193307.324 GMT - hXXp://www.dslreports.com/speak/remark,21204812;cc83n8293rn89hhfch9ehnf278hnc9hgu7hgfshurh9283h9vbvr2978yr9b23ycbr92yb923ycbr923yc b8923rybc9y So "anon user 1554623" doesn't anonymize me, since they can just look at who posted a reply into Topic 21204812 at that time and date and see that it's me. Man, that couldn't have been crafted any better. Here's a nail and a hammer To make matters worse, substitute the URL for any sort of service: torrent, google search queries, usenet, ect... (this includes porn BTW . Even if it's on SSL, URLs could still give you away. What was that individual that got discovered from what was supposed to be anonymous data that was collected? I think this was last year maybe? A lady? | |
| | | | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
Re: Why should we care?said by DabberDan:What was that individual that got discovered from what was supposed to be anonymous data that was collected? I think this was last year maybe? A lady? Thelma Arnold? Or User 927? AOL Scandal ... and that was just search engine data, not click stream or DPI. This needs to stop. | |
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Re: Why should we care?said by funchords:said by DabberDan:What was that individual that got discovered from what was supposed to be anonymous data that was collected? I think this was last year maybe? A lady? Thelma Arnold? Or User 927? AOL Scandal ... and that was just search engine data, not click stream or DPI. This needs to stop. Thanks! | |
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to DSLdewd
We care because it isn't much of a jump for Experian to NOT make it anonymous.
These people *do* have your social security number, your address, your income, your debts...
Then what? | |
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Experian Sux
Anon
2008-Oct-2 7:09 pm
Re: Why should we care?These people are scumbags. | |
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drjp81
Member
2008-Oct-2 3:17 pm
You just know this is going nowhere.I don't know why industry leaders just don't get it. Having a sane business model is based on the idea that customers are getting what they want and that consumers are in line with the general desires of the market.
If I make a distinction between customers and consumers, it is that in this case, the ad marketers are the customers and the average internet browsing joe, is the consumer.
These "Browsing data sales for better ads" seemingly goes squarely against this idea.
And what this means is, some wiseguy, such as myself, will simply devise a way to mask your identity (using a proxy that filters cookies from targeting ad sponsors and only provides a few repeating IP's, for instance) and will be reaping the profits from users that won't be happy with the crap pushed by ISP/Browsing data sellers.
Basically, with even existing low level technology, (and still having others options like DPI tech to fallback on) their business model is already threatened. I for one would never invest in it.
Besides, in my opinion, every other ad will become an ad for porn... just watch.
You want to push more ads? Make them less intrusive and more prevalent. Discreet and effective. Banners, pop-ups and SPAM are not nearly as cost effective as one thinks. | |
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Do phone companies sell call history?Do phone companies sell call history? | |
| | MTU Premium Member join:2005-02-15 San Luis Obispo, CA |
MTU
Premium Member
2008-Oct-2 4:06 pm
Re: Do phone companies sell call history?Better to ask the cellular providers. It's a hot topic since, in addition to numbers dialed, it often includes 'web' browsing info and your lat/lon. | |
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anony101
Anon
2008-Oct-2 4:50 pm
Immagine your company's website modified by 3rd party | |
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meh37
Anon
2008-Oct-2 4:43 pm
Money wastedThe people with products/services to sell would do just as well to take their ad budget and throw 90% of it in the trash bin (or, better yet, remove that 90% from their product pricing)--I ignore ads completely (when I ever see them) whether on web pages or TV or wherever (except for certain magazines). I'd no more buy something based on some ad (should I ever see it) than I would as a result of some spam I received. Advertising is based on the faulty premise that enough people care enough to pay attention and follow-up, which might happen 10% of the time. | |
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Re: Money wastedUnfortunately - it works for well on a LOT of people - marketing created the SUV and the 'need' for it. If they gain 10% more sales then what they spend is good. If marketing did NOT make them more money - they would stop the advertising and frequently do when the ads do not spark sales. | |
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Lone WolfRetired Premium Member join:2001-12-30 USA |
Time For TOR ?I think a lot of folks will opt for » www.torproject.org/ or one of the many free anonymous proxies to keep their browsing private. | |
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Re: Time For TOR ?said by Lone Wolf:I think a lot of folks will opt for » www.torproject.org/ or one of the many free anonymous proxies to keep their browsing private. That would mask your IP, but what about the actual URL you are trying to access? This is what they are after, it's what gives them something to sell... | |
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disgusted
Anon
2008-Oct-2 7:10 pm
forget moral or ethical...How in the world can this be legal? | |
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Data Guy
Anon
2008-Oct-3 10:32 am
$5 per userThat's a big number. If hitwise tracks 20 million users, their costs would be $100 million a month just for data. I'm guessing it's probably less than a dollar. There are also data exchanges coming out where websites submit their session data for auction to advertisers to monetize their traffic, which is no different. » www.bluekai.com/ Clickstream data will be made available one way or the other as new business models keep emerging. | |
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