T-Mobile Invisible Caps Return While company continues to advertise 'unlimited' broadband If you recall, when T-Mobile first launched the new HTC G1 smart phone with Google's Android OS, we were the first to note that buried in the fine print was a provision saying that users who used more than 1GB per month would be throttled back to 50kbps or less. Even for more constrained wireless networks that's a little sad, especially considering the G1 touted as a next-gen broadband-powered smart phone running on a next-gen wireless broadband network. When brought to T-Mobile's attention they told us it was simply a "soft" cap, and, in order to keep it from overshadowing the G1's launch, quickly removed the limit from their policy statement. "The specific terms for our new data plans are still being reviewed and once they are final we will be certain to share this broadly with all customers," the company told me at the time. I recently noticed the language had returned, though with no mention of a 50kbps throttle -- and a new 10GB cap: ...if your total usage exceeds 10GB (amount is subject to change; please periodically check T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. We may also suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, Plan, or service if you use your Data Plan in a manner that interferes with other customers service, our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or that otherwise may degrade service quality for other customers. Some tipsters over at Android Community (via Gizmodo) indicate T-Mobile employees are being trained on new limits, and that the 10GB enforced cap will soon be applied to all HSDPA-powered T-Mobile smart phones: employees are being trained on these policies, but there is no definite date for them to take place and they have a slight chance of changing. He reports that the 10GB data cap is coming, but its not just for G1 owners, this cap will cover all phones including the SideKick line. Half of the calls that user receives are customers with over 50GB of data already used. He also went on to say, "when you reach the 10GB cap we will strike the mighty throttle upon your line to 50kb or less." 10GB is certainly more generous, and is double the invisi-cap of carriers like Verizon or Sprint. Still, it's probably a good idea for T-Mobile to stop advertising a limited service as unlimited lest, like Verizon, they get a phone call from an annoyed State Attorney General. T-Mobile offers "unlimited" broadband service for $34.99, but given they say they won't block third party tethering programs, they may be dealing with a lot of phone calls from people wondering why a next-generation phone on a next-generation network is running at 50kbps.
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| 10GB? Damn They're Generous! What a bargain! Twice the data of the other big boys! And we won't disconnect you, just throttle you back. Sounds like something for the advertising department to roll with. It's sad that the U.S. Wireless industry has gone downhill so far. All this cap and throttle nonsense... | |
|  |  | | Re: 10GB? Damn They're Generous! other carriers dont cap yo ask on handhelds.... | |
|  |  |  60127178K.U. Sweet 16Premium join:2001-02-15 Wichita, KS kudos:1 | Re: 10GB? Damn They're Generous! said by ninjatutle:other carriers dont cap yo ask on handhelds.... They just charge dollars per meg...  | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: 10GB? Damn They're Generous! Darn. How much capage is on the iphone? How much is it per mb? | |
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 |  | | Well the plan is not limited. That's true. They just have tiers of usage. In all respect, you are unlimited at high speeds until you reach 10GB. After that, you are confined to 50 kilobits / 7KB/S for the remainder of your whoring. Sounds like customers still get their unlimited, just not as fast. I see no problem here.. They are not being deceptive, as long as they make clear this arrangement. | |
|  |  81399672Premium join:2006-05-17 Los Angeles, CA kudos:2 | I have unlimited with sprint. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: 10GB? Damn They're Generous! said by 81399672:I have unlimited with sprint. Not sure following Sprint's lead is something other businesses would agree is a smart thing to do.
»finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=S | |
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 | | Cricket Too Cricket is doing the same "Unlimited" nonsense.
»Ingenious indeed
Not that anyone is going to be happy about caps, but jeesh, is lying about it the answer? Seems it would stand to piss off a lot of people. | |
|  |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA kudos:5 | Re: Cricket Too Cricket's ad running in Portland offends me as deceptive.
By the way, I noticed that when I visit Washington, the ads there are a lot less "bait-and-switch" than the ads that run outside of the DC broadcast area.
I'm thinking we should start YouTube-ing these local ads -- completely legal to do as long as you also provide commentary and critique about them -- and make some examples of the more egregious ones. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...
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 jgkoltPremium join:2004-02-21 Lakewood, OH | 2g/3g I would like to mention the 2g edge network and 3g network are the same price. but i doubt an edge device would hit 10 gig often. | |
|  ScottMoOnce in a LifetimePremium,MVM join:2000-12-15 Stony Brook, NY | But its not limited. If I read this right, once a user hits 10GB, they get throttled back. But they can still use the connection to continue passing data, albeit at a much slower rate. Ipso facto: unlimited. A "limited" plan would be "hit 10GB and we shut you off". A no point does T-Mobile shut you off.
It may not be your interpretation of what "unlimited" means, but its certain AN interpretation that holds up. | |
|  |  Pv8man join:2008-07-24 Hammond, IN | Re: But its not limited. True scottmo, true
but 24.99 a month for 10GB sounds sorta like a rip off, but then again the new 3g networks are costly to install and operate so I guess the price is about right.
Besides, that's why the G1 has Wi-Fi So you are not FORCED to use the network to use the phone.
yes, I'm looking at you Blackberry Storm | |
|  |  |  | | Re: But its not limited. said by Pv8man:yes, I'm looking at you Blackberry Storm Hello. | |
|  |  |  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | Re: But its not limited. LOL | |
|  |  |  |  |  thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium join:2004-10-14 Irving, TX | Re: But its not limited. hahahaha.
that's too beautiful.
speaking of storms.
i have one.
it sucks. takes forever to rotate, slow to respond. laggy. reboots randomly. camera pops up randomly. lame. 1/10. | |
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 |  |  thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium join:2004-10-14 Irving, TX | even with a blackberry plan w/ vzw it's $15 extra for a data plan to use it with your computer, and it's capped at 5GB per month and is rolled in with my phone browsing.... creepy. | |
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 |  AVonGaussPremium,MVM join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL | I haven't looked at the updated language, but if it is similar to the original wording then I believe time will prove you wrong on this one. The sad part is many different companies already learned the lesson, if you say unlimited then you had better mean unlimited - most chose simply to stop using that word. Degrading or otherwise impairing a customer from using an unlimited service will not go well. | |
|  |  | | said by ScottMo: A "limited" plan would be "hit 10GB and we shut you off". A no point does T-Mobile shut you off. It may not be your interpretation of what "unlimited" means, but its certain AN interpretation that holds up. Holds up where exactly...in your head? In those who agree with you? Anyone who has the money/inclination can just as easily ennumerate a cause of action in a complaint and argue in front of a judge as to whether the intent of unlimited means what a reasonable person thinks it does vs legalese. Read some class action lawsuits sometimes. Doesn't matter what the company buries in legalese in its TOS/AUP, it's still up for a debate in front of a judge, particularly when concepts and definitions are played with fast & loose by corporate marketing departments. | |
|  |  |  AVonGaussPremium,MVM join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL | Re: But its not limited. Agreed - and many have already done just that with other companies. | |
|  |  |  ScottMoOnce in a LifetimePremium,MVM join:2000-12-15 Stony Brook, NY | "Holds up" to logic and what T-Mobile is presenting.
Look at the graphic in the story - it shows just what you get:
1) Unlimited web access - check, you always get web access all the time hence "unlimited".
2) Unlimited domestic text, picture & IM - check
3) Unlimited personal email -check
At no point does T-Mobile promise unlimited downloads or unlimited bandwidth. It promises "unlimited web + unlimited messages". This isn't "buried in legalese", its right out front in the advertising, right on T-Mobile's site. I'm sorry, I see nothing "fast & loose" about that. | |
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 beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH | 10GB What could you do to use up more than 10GB on the G1? seriously, what would you download? The TOS expressly prohibits tethering (regardless of whether TMO blocks it or not)...so what would once download to exceed the 10GB?
I have an iphone 3G and use it HEAVILY and went through only 340MB of cell data last month. I'm just trying to understand how people would use more than that in one day??? | |
|  |  | | Re: 10GB said by beaups:What could you do to use up more than 10GB on the G1? seriously, what would you download? The TOS expressly prohibits tethering (regardless of whether TMO blocks it or not)...so what would once download to exceed the 10GB? I have an iphone 3G and use it HEAVILY and went through only 340MB of cell data last month. I'm just trying to understand how people would use more than that in one day??? You do some FTP downloads of videos to your iphone via cellular/Edge instead of using your computer, then easily transfer them via FTP/WiFi to your PC.
Not the most efficient usage, but possible. I did it and worked fine, was just curious to see if the FTP plug in for Safari worked well and it did. -- Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. | |
|  |  | | I need to stream live security webcam feeds to my G1 24/7, or at least I was hoping to... T-Mobile, is my phone order going to be canceled? Your move. | |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA kudos:5 | Does this smell wrong? Does anyone work in the mobile industry that can comment on this? | |
|  | | Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? I mean, when I got to a buffet that promotes itself as "all-you-can-eat", it better mean that I can stay there all day long, morning, noon, and night.. Heck maybe even a few days.
The truth is that these terms are simply used for "simplicity". To the average consumer, the term "Unlimited" makes more sense than "3G Services up to 10GB of Downloads a Month".
And for 99% of subscribers, 10GB is really "unlimited" because they will never use that much. It's the people using their phones as modems and downloading movies, mp3s, and hi-res porn that are affected. -- "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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|  |  | | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? said by biggbrother:I mean, when I got to a buffet that promotes itself as "all-you-can-eat", it better mean that I can stay there all day long, morning, noon, and night.. Heck maybe even a few days. Don't be obtuse, man. You're comparing apples to rocks. An all you can buffet is vastly different from a mobile phone plan that is advertised as unlimited but really isn't. It isn't reasonable for anyone to expect he can set up camp for a few days inside of a Chinese buffett.  | |
|  |  |  beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? I think it's an excellent comparison. But seriously what application is going to cause a cell user to go over 10gb?? | |
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| Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? said by beaups:I think it's an excellent comparison. But seriously what application is going to cause a cell user to go over 10gb?? let's see..pandora.com..you tube...nfl live..nba live..all of these video sites especially sports can add up in a hurry.. | |
|  |  |  |  |  beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? try again. none of those applications would touch 10gb. seriously you'd have to listen to pandora over 8 hours per day EVERY day to go over 10GB in a month. I use pandora somewhat frequently and don't come near that usage. | |
|  |  |  |  |  sapoCruising Down Memory LanePremium join:2002-09-16 Sacramento, CA kudos:1 | Yeah, if you actually use 10GB with active material that you USE not just store because you like to have every song downloaded then I think it's time to get a job or a girlfriend. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? said by sapo:Yeah, if you actually use 10GB with active material that you USE not just store because you like to have every song downloaded then I think it's time to get a job or a girlfriend. I use maybe 3GB tops per month on my cell phone AND I do download things (no alot obviously). For those who say that 10GB isn't enough due to online based services...you wouldn't want to use them anyways on the go because 3G eats battery life like water. I will only get about 10min of *actual* web surfing on my AT&T Tilt before the phone cries out for power. I know it sucks, but its the price you pay I guess. And if you are at home with a charger, why wouldn't you just your computer anyways? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:I guess. And if you are at home with a charger, why wouldn't you just your computer anyways? Good point. However, I will admit that since I purchased the G1, I tend to use it on WiFi at home because it's more convenient than firing up the laptop. -- "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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 |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by SilverSurfer1:It isn't reasonable for anyone to expect he can set up camp for a few days inside of a Chinese buffett. Your comparing apples to oranges. A Chinese buffet closes for the night. A Cellphone company doesn't have calling curfews, perhaps in Utah (only sin and fornification (nightlife) can happen at night, proper Christians sleep at night, only evil do-ers call people at night) or an Islamic country (I'll make a guess and say no phones can dial out, and no phones can ring, and unless you get an exception from the govt/telco, your phone call is disconnected and replaced by a call to prayer, why wouldn't someone pray? its grounds for execution, we are all Muslims right?). | |
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 |  | | Everyone knows all you can eat buffey is really for one sitting. Just as everyone expects unlimited internet access to be unlimited access. If it's not going to be unlimited, then don't label it so. | |
|  |  |  beaups join:2003-08-11 Hilliard, OH | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? I agree that it is misleading...but TMO is the only one that really is unlimited...except you'll get throttled if you use too much.
The problem I see if they advertised as 20 or 200 or even 10,000GB of internet per month, it will scare customers away who don't understand. Wasn't there an article on here stating that 83% of people don't know what a GB is? The fact is for probably 99% of users 10GB is the same as unlimited.
Technically no internet service on the planet is "unlimited"....you are always limited by your connection speed, etc.
To the user who compared to rental car, what do you think would happen if you rented a car and drove it, say, 30,000 miles in a month? they probably couldn't charge you but I'm sure they'd tell you to take your business elsewhere next time or make you agree to a limit next time. This is effectively what TMO is doing. | |
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 |  | | said by biggbrother:I mean, when I got to a buffet that promotes itself as "all-you-can-eat", it better mean that I can stay there all day long, morning, noon, and night.. Heck maybe even a few days. The truth is that these terms are simply used for "simplicity". To the average consumer, the term "Unlimited" makes more sense than "3G Services up to 10GB of Downloads a Month". And for 99% of subscribers, 10GB is really "unlimited" because they will never use that much. It's the people using their phones as modems and downloading movies, mp3s, and hi-res porn that are affected. Let me ask you this, if you rent a car that is advertised as unlimited mileage and the turn that car in to find out you went over a 500 mile allowance what would you do? False advertising is named false advertising for a reason and the states need to start cracking down on these deceptive practices. PERIOD. | |
|  |  |  thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium join:2004-10-14 Irving, TX | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? why are you comparing it to that?
it's not being capped.
it's being throttled.
that's like saying now that you have driven 500 miles, you can no longer drive on highways because they're riskier and more accidents are caused there than on roadways with slower speeds. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? said by thefoxbox:why are you comparing it to that? it's not being capped. it's being throttled. that's like saying now that you have driven 500 miles, you can no longer drive on highways because they're riskier and more accidents are caused there than on roadways with slower speeds. T-Mobil is throttled, where as Cricket with terminate your service | |
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 |  zhenya join:2007-04-30 Ithaca, NY | To refine your analogy - it would be more like buying an 'all-you-can-eat' meal plan for the semester in college, only to find out they really meant 'limited to 1500 calories per meal, 135,000 calories per month.'
Not at all the same thing. | |
|  |  |  sapoCruising Down Memory LanePremium join:2002-09-16 Sacramento, CA kudos:1 | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? said by zhenya:To refine your analogy - it would be more like buying an 'all-you-can-eat' meal plan for the semester in college, only to find out they really meant 'limited to 1500 calories per meal, 135,000 calories per month.' Not at all the same thing. Your analogy fails to consider that after the limit is hit the service is not cut off. | |
|  |  |  |  nickvd join:2008-02-08 Hamilton, ON | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? No it's not cut off... but you're limited to one Twinkie per meal per day. | |
|  |  |  |  |  thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium join:2004-10-14 Irving, TX 1 edit | Re: Should we Start Suing Chinese Buffets too? that would leave no room for other foods with calories ;p | |
|  |  |  |  |  sapoCruising Down Memory LanePremium join:2002-09-16 Sacramento, CA kudos:1 | said by nickvd:No it's not cut off... but you're limited to one Twinkie per meal per day. After eating 1500 calories in a meal I don't think I could bear a twinkie. | |
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 |  |  |  thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium join:2004-10-14 Irving, TX | said by sapo:said by zhenya:To refine your analogy - it would be more like buying an 'all-you-can-eat' meal plan for the semester in college, only to find out they really meant 'limited to 1500 calories per meal, 135,000 calories per month.' Not at all the same thing. Your analogy fails to consider that after the limit is hit the service is not cut off. just time to eat your food slower.
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 |  | | Ironically, T-Mobile probably the least 3G intensive apps right now. They don't have anything near Vcast right now, or similar products at other carriers.
I think they just need to put this in there to protect themselves legally. -- "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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 thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium join:2004-10-14 Irving, TX 1 edit | i wonder
er. ignore this post. i stand corrected. | |
|  | | I will be out the door so fast.... Now I might just have to return my G1 and wait for the "new" Clearwire, Sprint, or other service if T-Mobile does this. I need to stream live video from security cameras at my house 24/7 to my G1's browser and I only hope I dont hit that limit because if I do, I will be leaving what has otherwise been my favorite company. | |
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1 edit | Re: I will be out the door so fast.... You can be sure that ANY wireless internet will have caps. At least this one's a soft cap that just bumps you from 3G to EDGE speeds if you go past it.
I also doubt that ANY provider would be happy with 24/7 streaming video to a phone. That's not what they're made for. | |
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 | | Only affects 3G If you don't live in a 3G market, you're already on EDGE speeds anyway so this wouldn't even affect you, as what actually happens is you're bumped off of 3G onto the EDGE network when you pass 10GB. | |
|  | | Called T-Mobile I called T-Mobile last night after reading this and the CS rep. insisted that there is no cap and that data is unlimited on the G1. She stated that they have some new data plans that are usage based but they are not available for the G1. | |
|  | | I seriously wonder about people sometimes..... I was reading some of the Android boards and some people just baffled me.
One guy was crying how he wanted a Bit Torrent app for his phone. WTF?!?!?!
Guys, it is a mobile phone, not a full fledged computer. 
Some of these people seem to think the bandwidth is limitless almost like their fiber, dsl or cable connections at home. You are sharing cell towers! There will be congestion if you keep the thing streaming with others doing the same thing.
I wonder when people are going to understand we can't do certain things yet because of technology. | |
|  |  | | Re: I seriously wonder about people sometimes..... said by moonpuppy:I was reading some of the Android boards and some people just baffled me. One guy was crying how he wanted a Bit Torrent app for his phone. WTF?!?!?! What's wrong with that?
Guys, it is a mobile phone, not a full fledged computer.  You don't pay $180 and get locked into a 2-year contract for 'just a phone'.
Some of these people seem to think the bandwidth is limitless almost like their fiber, dsl or cable connections at home. You are sharing cell towers! There will be congestion if you keep the thing streaming with others doing the same thing. So you are having an issue with potential abuses of the mobile network, and not with a G1 BitTorrent client. You do realize the G1 has a Wi-Fi radio? I don't care if it's BT, WoW, PhotoShop, SPSS, SQL Server or whatever people want to run on their G1s as long as they don't abuse the mobile network.
(As an aside, running a BitTorrent client on a mobile connection would likely result in suboptimal performance, because all connections are firewalled.)
And no, I don't have a G1, and am not planning to get one either. But I use T-Mobile's 3G network daily on a palmtop running XP Pro, using all sorts of apps--video streaming, web browsing, telnet, ftp, VPN, even Skype, but not P2P file sharing. So what's wrong with wanting to run any of these on a smartphone rather than a laptop? | |
|  |  |  | | Re: I seriously wonder about people sometimes..... said by broccoli:What's wrong with that? Bit Torrent is not meant for a cell network.
said by broccoli:You don't pay $180 and get locked into a 2-year contract for 'just a phone'. A cheap laptop costs $300 but is not a cell phone. Some Palm units are close to $200 as are some MP3 players.
said by broccoli:So you are having an issue with potential abuses of the mobile network, and not with a G1 BitTorrent client. You do realize the G1 has a Wi-Fi radio? I don't care if it's BT, WoW, PhotoShop, SPSS, SQL Server or whatever  people want to run on their G1s as long as they don't abuse the mobile network. (As an aside, running a BitTorrent client on a mobile connection would likely result in suboptimal performance, because all connections are firewalled.) Thanks for proving my point. Most people would try and run Bit Torrent on cell towers and forget about the WiFi.
said by broccoli:And no, I don't have a G1, and am not planning to get one either. But I use T-Mobile's 3G network daily on a palmtop running XP Pro, using all sorts of apps--video streaming, web browsing, telnet, ftp, VPN, even Skype, but not P2P file sharing. So what's wrong with wanting to run any of these on a smartphone rather than a laptop? First off, there will be network congestion. No matter how many ways you cut it, unless you have your own tower, network congestion will happen.
Secondly, people are already complaining about the batteries dying in less than 4 hours because they play on their phones all day long. A friend with an iPhone knows not to play on the net all day or he won't have a phone later. Can't be next to a charger all day long.
I do know of a case where someone played COD4 on a Verizon card and was cutoff. The bandwidth won't be there if everyone gets online and starts pulling everything under the sun. | |
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