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Debating an ISP Piracy Tax
One man's ingenious new idea is another man's protection racket...
by Karl Bode Wednesday 10-Dec-2008 tags: legal · competition · Fileswapping · business · content
Last March the music industry announced they'd created a new organization tasked with trying to implement a music "piracy tax." In essence, users would pay their ISP $5-$10 a month for the right to download, copy and share as much music as they'd like without restrictions. Or at least that's the sales pitch; it's hard to believe the music industry's implementation of such a plan wouldn't have serious flaws -- the least of which being that the industry would probably have everyone paying a piracy tax, whether they pirated or not.

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The idea of collective licensing is obviously not new. The EFF proposed just such a system back in 2004, but the music industry instead decided that "suing the hell out of everyone" (TM) made better business sense. In light of the group's creation, the EFF penned a guide on the right and wrong way to go about collective licensing.

The EFF believes a good system would be voluntary for users, artists and ISPs. A bad system would be little more than a Capone-esque protection racket, where you either "voluntarily" adopt the system, or get knee-capped. Knowing what you know about the music industry's tactics, which would you guess will be their approach?

To get their version of collective licensing approved by lawmakers and the public, the industry has hired former Geffen Records boss Jim Griffin to sell the idea over the next few years. According to Techdirt, the opening salvo in the sales pitch for the industry's version of collective licensing is to convince college universities that if they adopt such a system, the industry will stop suing students (maybe). Mike Masnick at Techdirt isn't particularly impressed:

There's obviously something appealing about ending the lawsuits and letting people file share freely. But, it's quite problematic to add an effective "tax" when none is necessary. Plenty of other business models, such as those we've outlined here and elsewhere can suffice to fund the creation of music. On top of that, giving the proceeds of this tax to the very industry that has so badly mismanaged musicians for so many years is a travesty -- sort of like bailing out the failed auto industry or banking industry.

But not everybody dislikes the idea. Ars Technica's Nate Anderson this week penned a somewhat vitriolic post in support of the industry's new endeavor, proclaiming that Techdirt was engaged in "knee-jerk churliness" (sic) while "jackboot(ing) the music industry in the proverbial groin" for trying something new old. The Ars post mirrors complaints by Warner Music sent to Techdirt, suggesting that inherent skepticism of an industry that's shown no limit to their dysfunction and greed is an act of high treason:

At this early stage, many ideas may be discussed and discarded, but efforts to prematurely label or criticize the process only hinder achievement of constructive solutions.

Of course Ars fails to note that Griffin and Warner Music aren't crafting the new system transparently with public input, and have thus far kept it under wraps. However, early leaks don't look promising. Indications are the system won't really be voluntary, and is -- in fact -- somewhat of a protection racket where those who pay don't get sued. In the industry's dream scenario, ISPs jump on board out of a fear of liability, tacking the $5-$10 piracy tax onto consumer bills already filled with annoying fees.

Even if done right the system has the potential to be a nightmare. In a follow up post responding to Ars's indignation, Masnick offers an interesting expanded post (be sure to read the entire thing) on why a music tax is a bad idea. Not only would the music industry's version of collective licensing not be mandatory, it would involve the creation of a massive new payment bureaucracy system they'd be sure to game.

What you're doing is setting up a big, centrally planned and operated bureau of music, that officially determines the business model of the recording industry, figures out who gets paid, collects the money and pays some money out. The same record industry that has fought so hard against any innovation remains in charge and will have tremendous sway in setting the "rules." The plan leaves no room for creativity. It leaves no room for innovation. It's basically picking the only business model and encoding it in stone.

After watching the industry for the last decade, who wouldn't be skeptical of Griffin and Warner's plan to craft an entire new pricing model behind closed doors? A $20 billion kitty, managed by the music industry once filtered through ISPs, using the U.S. justice system for enforcement? What could possibly go wrong. Once in place, do broadband users see similar fees from the porn, gaming, comic, books, and movie industries?

Artists seem to be figuring out on their own that while piracy is killing traditional label album sales, there are creative new ways to make money, using the music as a promotional tool for touring and merchandising. Masnick argues that traditional labels are properly being punished by the market for failure to adapt to broadband and piracy, and rewarding them by letting them craft a new taxation system designed to keep them in control makes little sense.

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netwire
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Shelby, NC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast

Hmm

I'm not sure about this. On one hand, sure for $5 to $10/mo unlimited downloading and sharing does not seem bad. But on the other hand, so many people would opt in for this that connections would become even more bogged down and the networks overloaded.
--
Visit my homepage »thinkequality.net
BigVe

join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI

Re: Hmm

Maybe it would be better to have a higher price tag like $10+ as long as the money goes to the artists and not the pockets of RIAA & MPAA etc.

TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ

Re: Hmm

Trust me when I tell you that the artists will see some of this money right about the same time a formation of pigs takes to the air down the street in front of my apartment.

I worked 27 years in the music biz and I know that in formulating this genius idea, the thought of the artist's compensation rarely or never crossed their minds.

The lawyers are just interested in their billable hours, the executives their compensation and stock prices and the music biz dweebs, getting their expense account budgets back up to what they once were.

Note: There is very little facetiousness in this post.

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
said by BigVe:

Maybe it would be better to have a higher price tag like $10+ as long as the money goes to the artists and not the pockets of RIAA & MPAA etc.
Doesn't matter to a lot of artists since they don't receive any money after a certian time period. This is all about the record companies. That said I don't think this is such a bad idea.

It would kill Itunes I would think.

Hmmmm, got to be some horrible catch somewhere. ????
severach

join:2002-09-12
Jackson, MI

Re: Hmm

Sure there's a catch. Who wants to be the first to sign up?

Me: "Hello, I'd like to add the Piracy Plan to my service."

Cable: "Let's see, your address is... OK, wait right there. Someone will be with you in a moment."

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
What they are really trying to do is sell an insurance policy against being sued by the **AAs. If the $10/mo allowed me to down load any music or any tv show I would consider paying for it.
d25m03p
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Abbotsford, BC
said by netwire:

I'm not sure about this. On one hand, sure for $5 to $10/mo unlimited downloading and sharing does not seem bad. But on the other hand, so many people would opt in for this that connections would become even more bogged down and the networks overloaded.
Bad, bad, bad! Once it starts, it will never stop. Today $5. Tomorrow, OOOPS, [CEO] my pension plans needs a fill up by $200M. Inflate the "voluntary" $5 by 200%.

Then of course, there are the other players that will now feel left out;
1. The electronic games people.
2. The software people (like Microsoft and SCO - they want their license fees even though you are using Linux!)
3. The movie industry
4. The porn industry
5. The telco's (you are using VoIP, aren't you?)
6. The NSA, CIA, FBI, MI5/6, XYZ police (you are using VPN, aren't you?)
7. The government revenue bottom feeders (fees for collecting the collections of "taxes")
8. The newspapers
9. The book and magazine publishers
10. The electricity industry

Where will it end once the gate has been opened for the muckraking music industry?

No thanks. I won't be paying any tax to any damn music or movie industry. The idea is BAD, BAD, BAD! I puke whenever I read news about so called voluntary taxes, because like all taxes, it doesn't remain voluntary - it becomes compulsory.
jdjbuffalo

join:2004-01-17
Denver, CO

Re: Hmm

^
|
This. It opens Pandora's box if we allow it to proceed. Your $50* internet bill will look like this.

*Taxes not included in this price.

15/2 Internet Package...$50.00
Local Taxes.................$2.00
State Taxes................$3.00
Music Tax....................$7.00
Games Tax...................$12.00
Movie Tax....................$15.00
Porn Tax.....................$5.00
Microsoft Tax...............$10.00
Other Software Tax.......$20.00

Total: $124.00

(Note all numbers are made up but realistic given this scenario)

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:33

Re: Hmm

Plus per-byte billing, and the assorted regulatory recovery fees...

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Insulting

Why does BBR see the need to insult Al Capone by comparing him to the content industry?

And why does the content industry need even more government help? There are numerous existing civil and criminal remedies available to this industry to combat copyright infringement. I don't see why yet another industry that works against my behalf needs more of my money to do its job.
--
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Insulting

yea the content industry is lower then Capone, that said they still do hold their MAFIAA name.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Insulting

maybe this pic would be more appropriate

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Insulting

That's just bleepin' priceless!
--
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Nah, he's way too stupid when compared to Capone. He might make a good RIAA exec though....
JimF
Premium
join:2003-06-15
Allentown, PA

Re: Insulting

It is enough to give Chicago a bad name. That is a shame, I like the place.

asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net
"And why does the content industry need even more government help? "

From what we know of jim griffin's approach and from what we have heard so far the government isn't involved in this.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Insulting

said by asdfdfdfdfdfdf :

From what we know of jim griffin's approach and from what we have heard so far the government isn't involved in this.
This plan would require a change in copyright law. That is the exclusive domain of the federal government.

While I hate the content industry, I see this as being unfair to other copyright holders as well. The whole point of copyright law is to ensure that owners of copyrights can distribute those works in a manner that they see fit. Compulsory licensing detracts from those rights. Another way to look at is to consider open source software licenses. A license like GPL2 allows for copying and distribution of a work provided that certain conditions are met. It would not be right for the government to arbitrarily change that license just because someone else is having trouble making money.
--
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty

asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

Re: Insulting

"This plan would require a change in copyright law."

I don't see this and I don't see anyone talking about this. There is already a collective licensing system in place for things like radio play.

"The whole point of copyright law is to ensure that owners of copyrights can distribute those works in a manner that they see fit. "

Aren't the companies that are looking into this and negotiating this collective licensing scheme the owners of the copyright? The government isn't forcing this on these companies. These companies are looking into the possibility of reaching agreements with the isp. They hold the copyright and have the right to license the material. The government isn't involved and I don't think any changes to copyright law would be required given that this sort of licensing already takes place.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Insulting

said by asdfdfdfdfdfdf :

I don't see this and I don't see anyone talking about this. There is already a collective licensing system in place for things like radio play.
It would take a law because THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL all the ISP's and their customers would agree to this unless *forced* to do it by law. Before a collective licensing system could come into being WITHOUT requiring new copyright oppression law would mean we'd all have to agree to it or opt in.

Fat chance.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

Re: Insulting

"It would take a law because THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL all the ISP's and their customers would agree to this unless *forced* to do it by law."

Who is saying that every isp has to opt in?

"Before a collective licensing system could come into being ... we'd all have to agree to it or opt in."

I don't see this either. If it is a voluntary collective license it doesn't require that every isp opt in before the licensing moves forward.
It sounds like the isp would have the choice of whether to opt in or not. If the isp chose to opt in then their customers would pay the fee and would be licensed to share files legally. If the isp chose not to opt in then their customers would not be licensed and any customers engaging in file sharing of copyrighted material with an opt out isp would be considered to be infringing as they are now.
Desdinova
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD

Re: Insulting

Okay, and who decides how much each artist receives? I'm an independent musician, I release an indy album. It gets pirated. How would I collect? How would I determine how much I'm owed? Or even better: what's to prevent an artist from freely sharing a track millions of times and then screaming "PIRACY!!" and getting paid?

The only way I see this plan working is if each and every music file that moves across any network is tagged and monitored ACCURATELY for description of content and number of copies made, number of copies distributed, etc. in a way that prevents any hint of fraud. Yeah, THAT'LL happen.

Besides, this tax is already in place. The tax that's STILL in place on every music-only CD-R that gets sold. AND YET...the RIAA still sues and prosecutes the "pirates" who manufacture duplicates of protected works (using this medium) that the "pirates" already paid a compulsory tax for. So methinks the RIAA won't let people slide on this one, either.

No, there's an even easier solution than a Piracy Tax: the RIAA and the MPAA need to adapt their organizations to fit in with the rest of the 21st century. They need to accept that there's going to be a certain amount of inventory shrinkage and then get over it. They need to start treating their own artists with respect and integrity and start honoring their contractual obligations to same.

In other words, they need to start acting like responsible businessmen before most of us will start treating them as such.

Nanoprobe
Looking for cures in memory of Mom
Premium
join:2003-05-11
Crab Nebula
kudos:2
Cuz I'm the taxman.
Yeaaaah I'm the taxman.

Ooppss. I just pirated a Beatles lyric.
I'm expecting a knock on the door any time now.
--
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

really its ment for pure profit.

take an ISP like comcast with 16mil(i think) HSI subs, now i bet the majority of them dont even know what P2P is. so lets say subtract(making up numbers here) 2 million for people who pirate daily leaving us with 14 million or at 10 per sub that is 140mil in nothing but profit each month, basicly from one ISP alone its like they released a box office smash each month.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

Re: really its ment for pure profit.

You are assuming that those who don't pirate wouldn't engage in p2p if it was legal. If people could legally exchange material I think there would be many more people involved in it. The vast majority of americans participate in some way with the music market, either buying cds, listening to radio, etc. so I see no reason to believe that the vast majority wouldn't want to exchange music if they could.

anon33

@csolve.net

do it but .....

sure, do it, but remove the download cap and throttle
Taget

join:2004-07-29

Way too much...

...include the movie industry on the $5 to $10 and then we might have a deal.

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

Re: Way too much...

said by Taget:

...include the movie industry on the $5 to $10 and then we might have a deal.
You're getting greedy now. Movies won't be part of the deal.

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ViaTalk
·Vonage

Re: Way too much...

said by Corehhi:

said by Taget:

...include the movie industry on the $5 to $10 and then we might have a deal.
You're getting greedy now. Movies won't be part of the deal.
And this isnt a example of the recording industry getting greedy. Hmm how about a tax on profits of all music to pay for the bailouts. We need the bailouts right...
--
You better not pout, you better not cry, I am telling you why Jesus Christ is coming to town..


MarkAW
Barry White
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
kudos:16

2 edits

Sounds good to me...

.....as long as the ISP's lift the caps and throtting allow us to download at top speed, sure I'm willing to pay $5 to $10 a month and as long as the money goes to were it should.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Sounds good to me...

And what about the recording industry's current practices lead you to believe that the money would go where it was supposed to go? Assuming the fee was $5 a month, $4.90 would probably be taken out in various "fees" and "administrative costs." The remaining dime would then be divided amongst the hundred or so big label musicians (freezing out indie label musicians) and placed in a bank account (controlled by the big labels) to be paid out when they feel like it.

MarkAW
Barry White
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
kudos:16

Re: Sounds good to me...

Hey i never said it would be easy, as long as i get what i want from my ISP which is no caps and no throttling if i pay this so called tax then it's up to the music industry to figure out what they are going to do with the money if they get it that is.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Sounds good to me...

And what happens when the movie industry wants to add an additional $5-10 a month? And the software industry? And the book industry? And the TV industry? And so on. Suddenly, your monthly ISP bill increases by $25-50.

MarkAW
Barry White
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
kudos:16

Re: Sounds good to me...

You work for the industry don't you? The only reason i say this is because you seem to have a hard on for what the industry wants. Personally i don't give a shit what the industry wants, if my ISP has a set rate of $5 or $10 and i am getting what i want which is no caps or throttling then i don't give a fuck what the industry wants after that. Now do you understand.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Sounds good to me...

I think it is you who isn't understanding. I don't *WANT* the industry -- any industry -- to be able to put a tax on my Internet connection because they think I'm going to pirate their work. If one industry gets the chance, more will pile on until our ISP costs will skyrocket. Meanwhile, the major players in the industries will make sure the fund dispersion rules are set to maximize their profits and minimize payouts to the artists.

If the tax is voluntary, that might be fine because I would never sign up for a tax like that. I'd prefer to keep my $60-$120 per year and use it as I see fit. I don't think that the record industry wants it to be voluntary, though.
corinthos

join:2007-10-09

Meh

What keeps the movie, pornography, games, comic, and other industries for getting in on the action since their stuff is pirated also. So we going to see tons of add on taxes for each?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Meh

said by corinthos:

What keeps the movie, pornography, games, comic, and other industries for getting in on the action since their stuff is pirated also. So we going to see tons of add on taxes for each?
Of course.

Soon only the people on welfare (Government paid broadband) would be able to afford it due to all the Piracy penalties.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

No thanks

I'll keep my 10 bucks and they can keep their sh!t music.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

Re: No thanks

said by Dogfather:

I'll keep my 10 bucks and they can keep their sh!t music.
Damn Right!
Make it for movies and we may have something - fuck the music!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Re: No thanks

said by dadkins:

said by Dogfather:

I'll keep my 10 bucks and they can keep their sh!t music.
Damn Right!
Make it for movies and we may have something - fuck the music!
they need to start making more good movies first

swhitney2003
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
said by Dogfather:

I'll keep my 10 bucks and they can keep their sh!t music.
I'll keep my 10 bucks and I'll take their shit music.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·KCH Cable
·AT&T DSL Service

question

Why doesn't Rhapsody (and iTunes and all the others) have access to "everything" already?

Why do they constantly take things away?

Why don't these labels already give the existing legal services access to everything? Sure, some artists don't want their tunes online (the Beatles come to mind), but it's already too late - I'm sure their music is "shared" anyway.

What would the "music industry" do about such cases?

I'd bet they still sue people, even with this proposed system in place...

They missed this opportunity years ago when they decided to fight Napster. They could easily have compromised somehow with those people and I'd bet MOST users of that service would gladly have signed up for a small fee. Sure, some would not go along with it, but I'd venture to say a vast majority of "ordinary" users (who then jumped to Kazaa, Limewire, bit-torrent, etc. etc. etc.) would have simply punched their VISA numbers in and kept downloading away and sharing all their tunes.

At this stage, what would be the benefit of going with such a system like this when the legal services are already being shafted?

Also, what about other such systems? Are we to expect a proposal for video too? When would it stop? How many extra fees would there be? Internet bill - $45, music bill $15 (already paying for Rhapsody!) - movie bill $10 (already paying for Netflix) = $70/month that I'm currently paying... add another $10 here, another $10 there, wtf?

Again, why doesn't Netflix, or iTunes, or whoever already have everything online? Why can't I log into Netflix and push play on anything I want? Why the crappy selection?

If anything online movies are far worse off now compared to music as far as selection goes.

Would such services proposed really let you do anything you wanted?

What about independent artists? Would I be able to opt-in to such a service as easily or more easily than the current system if I wanted my cut from buyers?

Heck, if this is really to be proposed, are we talking about knocking out ALL currently existing legal services for one big mountain of peer-to-peer sharing that would then become the de-facto standard for all internet media?

Who would control such a thing? How could they? What assurances would anyone have that any of that money would ever go directly to the original creator(s)?

Currently, I can sign up to have music sold with a variety of services that guarantee me a very large chunk, if not all monies paid for my music. Would this system do the same thing? Would an indie movie maker, for example, be able to do the same thing?
voipdabbler

join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT

Bad timing.

Given the grim state of the economy and the fact that economic experts are predicting continued job losses, this isn't the best time for the entertainment industry to be lining up for public largess. And make no mistake about it--this will be nothing but public largess; music downloads will not suddenly be free nor will copyright laws be amended to make downloading without paying legal. This is simply the music industry (and movies and tv will be right behind them, believe me) stepping up asking the government to make every citizen who has any kind of access to the Internet (even if it's only as a taxpayer in a community with a wired public library) pay them a monthly fee, just because. You will still see enforcement of copyright infringement provisions, both civilly and criminally. If music gets this, expect to see tv and movie execs step up to the bat. So, if you own cell phone (regardless of whether it's data capable; I just don't see the cellular carriers objecting to levying more fees on all their users) or have an Internet connection of any kind, you'll end up paying somewhere around $20-$30 month more for fees to the music industry (not artists, mind you), tv and movie execs. Before you know it, other industries will try to get in on the act, say publishing. By the time it ends, you may pay more in fees to compensate industries for "pirating" even if you've never violated the copyright act than you pay for the Internet service. On top of that, anyone who wants to download music legally is still going to have to pay for it and those who continue to pirate aren't going to get a free ride--if they get caught they'll still be subjet to criminal and civil legal action.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

sounds tempting

a set $5 doesn't sound that bad, assuming it stay thay way.

if this does go through, bandwidth consumption may sky rocket, possible destroying of the current entertainment buying (why send ~$50 for 50 songs, when you can just thousands on bit torrent for free? you pay the piracy tax either way, why not make use of it?), and if the MAFIAA start sinking more, it is a safe bet that the tax will go up.
Methadras

join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

This makes a lot of assumptions...

one of them being that everyone is a pirate and instituting a piracy tax is nothing more than punishing everyone for the people who do pirate. This is wrong because if people are made to pay this, then everyone will become what the **AA's don't want because they will be entitled to do it based on this tax they will pay.

Harry Potter

@verizon.net

My thoughts

NO WAY!! If I want music I will get it from iTunes. I don't need my ISP to add more taxes to my bill.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

I don't Think So

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV8boXLV0ik


You mean pay $5-$10 bucks a month for stuff like this......
I don't think so.

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

Re: I don't Think So

This more your thing??

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGBOHXYQ-jI

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: I don't Think So

Awesome tune from the 80's

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
A least it the music is good

Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

...

I wonder if the music industry is pitting themselves against some rather large opponents - AT&T, Verizon, Time Warner, Comcast.... They may not appreciate having to add more cost to their service, money that goes to someone else. Perhaps they'll get enticed with a little collection fee kick-back. The RIAA charges $10. The ISP keeps $1.00.

Still, I think the strongest argument against this is every industry in electronic format has just as much reason for the same system, as Karl mentions - movies, books, games, etc. By the time they all get done lining up behind the RIAA's precedent, broadband will be $50 plus $100 in racketeering fees.

Rather than imposing such a system, every company interested should offer what amounts to the same thing - an unlimited subscription to their material for a monthly fee. Sony music for $2. Warner for $2. Universal Studios for $10. Each company could cut out all the middle men and media costs. They could market and sell subscriptions. "Hey, we have the best movies/music/games all for only $3.00 per month." Several companies could even get together and offer content under a single subscription.

IM1811

join:2001-08-20
Haverstraw, NY

1 edit

Give me a break........

How in the hell could I have "Unlimited" downloads and "Sharing" if you limit my data to 10 gigs a month?
How in the hell could I download anything when the ISP's already throttle, interrupt, and otherwise degrade data exchange (read Ruku issues) in an asinine attempt to improve QOS?
You can't tell me all of these problems would just go away if everybody paid $10? This is just another example of the Money Grubbing Music Industry hooking up with the Money Grubbing ISP's in a mindless attempt to monetize the Internet, with no discernable benefit to the consumer. I'd rather just pay Apple $.99 a song and take my chances.
--
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BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

1 edit

There is no debate

A)If this happens look for the TV/Movie industry to look for their piracy tax. Then look for software makers look for thier piracy tax. all these piracy taxes would be more than what you are paying for internet service.

B)I'm sure companies like Wal-Mart, Amazon, Apple etc would be against this because whn you can legally download all the music movies etc you want for "free" then why buy it? I think those companies have enough money in their pockets to pay off congressmen.

C) and most important, I DON'T PIRATE. Why should I pay a piracy tax?
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
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More BS from the Copyright Control agencies.

This is not the first time the copyright control agencies have shaken down all American Citizens. The first shakedown was the fee sent to the copyright control agencies for Cassette Tapes, that were considered high enough quality for recording music. Next there was the second shakedown which was fee sent to the copyright control agencies for Music CD ROM's that could be used to make recordings with Consumer Music CD Recorders. Consumer CD Recorders also included an early type of digital rights management called the Serial Copy Management System. The Serial Copy Management System prevented a consumer from copying a copy or copying an original marked do not copy. I do not engage in P2P Music sharing and resent being shaken down by the RIAA, ASCAP, MPAA or any other copyright fee collection agency when I do not share music. I also believe that I have the right to make a copy of any song that I purchase in any format for personal use, under Fair Use. What really angers me is the recent advertisements inviting consumers to purchase a new movie. The way it is worded is misleading and fraudulent. The advertisement says: "Buy XYZ movie, own it today". That is totally unacceptable. The consumer owns the media and pays a single pay right to use fee for whatever is recorded on the media. The copyright owner retains all rights to whatever is recorded on the media. If you read the fine print the license entitles the consumer to use whatever is recorded on the media for personal use, listening or viewing. I believe the only fair and ethical arrangement is an opt in arrangement where anyone wanting to trade music pays a reasonable monthly fee.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: More BS from the Copyright Control agencies.

dont forget it was the copyright control agencies that killed DAT from becoming a real format and it ended up left to back rooms of recording studios. its quality was high enough that they pretty much said that consumer devices would have to have extremely strict copy controls or no record ability which basicly killed the format from being commerical.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
said by Mr Matt:

This is not the first time the copyright control agencies have shaken down all American Citizens. The first shakedown was the fee sent to the copyright control agencies for Cassette Tapes, that were considered high enough quality for recording music. Next there was the second shakedown which was fee sent to the copyright control agencies for Music CD ROM's that could be used to make recordings with Consumer Music CD Recorders.
Exactly! You pay the tax/fee for the music CD blank, on the grounds you may share music with it. But does that music CD give you a legal right to share music with it (which is what you are supposedly paying for). No....

Which is FWIW why I never bought a music CD stereo system (which I might have otherwise done). If I was going to burn music CDs (legal, as it was my own licensed stuff, I wasn't sharing), I did it on the computer where I could use what was technically "data CDs". Sure it was more of a hassle, but the CD blanks were a lot cheaper!

No, I don't trust these guys with any sort of "tax". What I would be OK with, is for them to continue with what they are already starting to do, which is having licensed services that you could sign up for on a VOLUNTARY basis. Guess what, some of us might even consider a service if the price was right. For example, while it's movies instead of music, I happen to make extensive use of (legally licensed) movies and TV (streamed directly to my TV from a $100 "NetFlix Player" box) that come as part of my NetFlix subscription...

caesarv

join:1999-08-02
Santa Rosa, CA

No way!

By this logic, since some people will commit crimes, let's just jail everyone for a month on a rotational basis. At least this way we could then commit whatever crimes we want. I bet OJ would go for this.
This does not stand a chance in hell....everyone over the age of 40 will scream bloody murder and they are the ones that pay much of the ISP fees.

El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2

Extinction tax?

So let me see the **AA's are being put down by downloading. And now we're forced to subsidize them back into existence?

If you have a bad business model your business fails. Period, that's how it should work in the free world.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Extinction tax?

said by El Quintron:

So let me see the **AA's are being put down by downloading. And now we're forced to subsidize them back into existence?

If you have a bad business model your business fails. Period, that's how it should work in the free world.
We're doing this with the Big 3 and the banking industry after all.
--
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
said by El Quintron:

So let me see the **AA's are being put down by downloading. And now we're forced to subsidize them back into existence?

If you have a bad business model your business fails. Period, that's how it should work in the free world.
by "downloading" you mean THEFT. So if banks get robbed they should close down due to them being bad busines models?

Here's a crazy idea. How about people stop stealing, pay the fricken 99 cents( hell I was paying that for a 45 single 30 years ago ) If you can't afford that then I think having music is the least of your worries. I hear Burger King is hiring.

FBGuy
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: Extinction tax?

he said downloading. not theft. big difference.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Extinction tax?

said by FBGuy:

he said downloading. not theft. big difference.
He Einstien if people are downloading music from Amazon or Itunes or even through subscription based companies like Rhapsody the RIAA is getting their cut of that money. So that kind of downloading isn't hurting them. So what kind of downloading could he be referring too?

El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
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·voip.ms
said by BF69:

I hear Burger King is hiring.
Theft? Theft implies I am stealing one object and depriving someone else this object. Or depriving them from the ability to capitalize on this object.

Downloading is duplication of an object. It's arguable whether it's stealing or not.

said by BF69:

So that kind of downloading isn't hurting them. So what kind of downloading could he be referring too?
It is hurting them, margins are lower and blanket licenses are less profitable than CD sales.

Once again, I re-iterate my point, they're dinosaurs. They don't offer a product people want to pay for, newer artists are choosing to self publish, and like the big three they can't seem make something new people want to buy.

I'm Canadian, and these types of levies are already included on blank media and proposals are being made to include similar levies on ISPs.

I disagree for the same reason people disagree with bailing out the big 3.

Make something people will pay for or fail. Allowing companies to try and fail is what made America great in the first place. Why do you want to change that now?

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