Small ISP Will Play Cop, But Wants RIAA To Pay 'We don't work for free...' Tipped by ThrowDemsOut 
Last week we noted that the RIAA's new anti-piracy plan comes with a slew of serious questions, not least of which is how smaller carriers are supposed to pay for implementing and supporting this new warning system. A small Louisiana ISP by the name of Bayou Internet and Communications tells the RIAA that if they want ISPs to play content nanny, they need to bring their checkbook. "They have the right to protect their songs or music or pictures," Bayou owner Jerry Scroggin says. "But they don't have the right to tell me I have to be the one protecting it. I don't want anyone doing anything illegal on my network, but we don't work for free."
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  Jafo232You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY
1 edit | Sure I would be interested to see the bill on this one. I mean, with no real regulation on it, the ISP could say, sure, 5 million a year and we will monitor what you want. Sounds like a new revenue stream. :P | |
|  |  DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Re: Sure As well it should. Good for the ISPs! | |
| |  braynesPremium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME
 ·Great Works Inte..
1 edit | So If the isps get a check from the from the "AAs" what bullshit will they be able to use to raise the bill?
Sorry I forgot they do not need a reason so is this going to be double dipping with us paying the tab twice once to buy music and dvds, and then to the isp to police the fact we buy them and just do not have any big compulsion to steal there crap? | |
| | | | | Re: Sure The same bullshit excuse that you want to raise your pay every year. Its called inflation. | |
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 ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Losing small ISPs may not matter .... .... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. | |
| |  hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. ohh, that would just elate you, would it?
But u know it will never happen. | |
| | |  maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·DIRECTV
| Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by hopeflicker:said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. ohh, that would just elate you, would it? But u know it will never happen. I know TWC users have already begun receiving notices from Time Warner. (See RoadRunner topic, someone that got caught opened a topic).
What makes you think that Comcast, AT&T and Verizon won't do the same? | |
| | | |  CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by maartena:said by hopeflicker:said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. ohh, that would just elate you, would it? But u know it will never happen. I know TWC users have already begun receiving notices from Time Warner. (See RoadRunner topic, someone that got caught opened a topic). What makes you think that Comcast, AT&T and Verizon won't do the same? Um, people have been getting notices from these guys for a while now? These letters are not something new, and currently, all they do is just send the letter out, the RIAA wants them to enforce the letters they are sending out now.... | |
| | | | | | | | | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by maartena:Actually, they have already disconnected a TWC user (or so he claims), read here: » [TWC] OMG I Feel so violated! What if someone got KILLED?Yeah the guy is really making a big fuss.  But it looks like his internet got disconnected by TWC because of downloading copyrighted materials. And although Time Warner Corp and Time Warner Cable are now separate companies/entities, I wouldn't be surprised that TWC will gladly work with the RIAA when it comes to Time Warner produced materials. And if he was disconnected, this was more than likely not his first letter. | |
| | | | | | | maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·DIRECTV
| Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by Cheese:And if he was disconnected, this was more than likely not his first letter. Probably. But this is what the RIAA wants.... disconnect users.
If TWC is willing to lose customers over this (if you forcefully disconnect them they will go find a different ISP), I wouldn't be at all surprised if the other big ISP's do the same thing. | |
| | | | | | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by maartena:said by Cheese:And if he was disconnected, this was more than likely not his first letter. Probably. But this is what the RIAA wants.... disconnect users. If TWC is willing to lose customers over this (if you forcefully disconnect them they will go find a different ISP), I wouldn't be at all surprised if the other big ISP's do the same thing. They are doing the same thing, and they aren't willing to lose customers, they warned this person, and we assume multiple times being he got cut off, but if he/she/it wasn't willing to comply with the notices, that's HIS fault, not the ISP. | |
| | | | | | | | | MrHappy316Wish I had my tankPremium
join:2003-01-02
Summerville, SC Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... You know why they want them to disconnect customers...So they can bring back the physical media economy they so desperately need to make money. If you cannot connect to the internet then you have to buy the physical media to continue to music or video your way to entertainment bliss. Of course this is not going to work but were at the next battlefield of the war, like to see how this plays out. | |
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| | | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by maartena:I know TWC users have already begun receiving notices from Time Warner. (See RoadRunner topic, someone that got caught opened a topic). What makes you think that Comcast, AT&T and Verizon won't do the same? Comcast already sends "cease and desist" letters. I've heard AT&T does, but not actually seen one, as I have a Comcast letter (and I am an "at&t Yahoo! HSI" subscriber; never had Comcast Service. Ever.)
I don't trade in MPAA/RIAA stuff, so, if I ever get a letter, there will be an accounting.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
|
| | | And then folks will migrate to the 15% of intelligent ISP's that remained independent.
And the bought off scum will perish.... 
--
All trolls are equal, but A troll is more equal than others. | |
| | | Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... LOL, we can only dream "Davebo"...we can only dream...
That karma sounds about right, seems like this is what SHOULD have happened along time ago | |
| | |  mocyclerPremium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
·AT&T U-Verse
| said by 33591094:And then folks will migrate to the 15% of intelligent ISP's that remained independent. And the bought off scum will perish.... The problem with that is it's unlikely many customers will dump their ISP over this. Sure, a few will be mad enough to go with an independent provider, but don't expect some mass exodus.
mocycler
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| | | | | | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... said by mocycler:The problem with that is it's unlikely many customers will dump their ISP over this. Sure, a few will be mad enough to go with an independent provider, but don't expect some mass exodus. mocycler Yeah, considering many parts there is a duopoly. In some places, the individual is either stuck with DSL (AT&T or Verizon) or cable with no other competition  .
--
Yo te digo, el mundo esta jodido | |
| | | | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by mocycler:The problem with that is it's unlikely many customers will dump their ISP over this. Sure, a few will be mad enough to go with an independent provider, but don't expect some mass exodus. While I am not inclined to dump my ISP over this; if they dump me, I will find an independent which scoffs at the MPAA/RIAA.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO | said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. Hmm...then what happens next? People who download a lot of movies and music figure out which ISPs are participating and which aren't (the Internet is a wonderful thing). Those smaller ISPs get a bump from those people, and the problem is still there for the **AAs while the rest of us either lose access to the legit functions of P2P (doubtful given the new administration) or the **AAs still have a problem as more torrents move to being encrypted.
Could this be a headache for smaller ISPs too? If they get a lot of people flooding in who use a lot of bandwidth, they'll need bigger pipes to keep everyone happy (or some kind of metering arrangement).
Long story short, the **AAs are still fighting a losing battle.
--
"2 Strangers + 1 20 minute ceremony + $50 + 10 shots of tequila = Holy Matrimony and 1st Class Protections Under the Law… now that’s crazy!" | |
| | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. can the RIAA afford it? The impression I get is that the only reason they have pursued this to the extent they have is they have been able to shift costs to the ISPs.
reports are starting to appear that the costs of their lawsuits are starting to be a burden, with member companies reducing their payments to the RIAA.
I'm guessing when the RIAA sees the bill from one of these major ISPs, they may think twice about paying it. | |
| | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | the RIAA couldnt afford to upgrade the comcast network. however the ISPs should bill the RIAA $10,000 per request for a name related to an IP unless there is a court order signed by a judge local to the offender.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | | Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... Then RIAA will just sue the user user's mom for an extra $10,000 of costs. | |
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| | | |
approval from:
ThrowDemsOut
| Re: Losing small ISPs may not matter .... Don't be naive fatness, it's a numbers game. Pursuing every last bit of the long tail is expensive. %85 would be a heck of a start. | |
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| | | Who's to say that the large ISPs will charge RIAA for the privilege of monitoring their content like this small ISP says they should? | |
| |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. But they won't and the writing is on the wall.
Comcast, AT&T and Time Warner are *ALL* moving to usage based tiers. They don't want to play copyright cops so they'll just shut down the big offenders or charge them out the wazoo and be done with it. | |
| | nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | said by ThrowDemsOut:.... if the RIAA can sign up Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, TWC, and the few other large ISPs. They could then have deals covering 85% of the US market. I agree. The broadband competition state in the US is that, well, there is no competition. Get the major players to participate and it really doesn't matter what the smalls ISPs do or don't.
If this happens then I doubt people will stop file sharing. VPNs will just become a whole lot more popular.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation | |
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| | RIAA will buy a law. The RIAA will buy a few politicians through lobbyists and get laws passed that make it the ISP's problem. The ISP's will pass the cost on to us. I bet this is exactly what is going to happen. | |
| | Core0000Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY | Re: RIAA will buy a law. You know what? That is unfortunately the current truth.... | |
|
 ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23 |  Right on the money
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|  fcislerPremium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY | Sounds fair Is this akin to the software that would check for "illegal files" on your computer and offer to delete them? The software that did a blanket search for .mp3, .avi, etc etc and blanket flagged them as "illegal"?
I just can't understand this. I want to actually SEE software/hardware which ISP's can implement which has a X% of accuracy and Y% of false positives.
Oh wait...that doesn't exist? Well hell, someone tell RIAA and MPAA.
Once the software/hardware is available, independently tested, X is >= 80% and Y <= 10% then I could see asking/forcing an ISP to utilize the technology. Until then, I haven't seen any technology that is that "advanced". | |
| | | | Re: Sounds fair said by fcisler:Is this akin to the software that would check for "illegal files" on your computer and offer to delete them? The software that did a blanket search for .mp3, .avi, etc etc and blanket flagged them as "illegal"?I just can't understand this. I want to actually SEE software/hardware which ISP's can implement which has a X% of accuracy and Y% of false positives. Oh wait...that doesn't exist? Well hell, someone tell RIAA and MPAA. Once the software/hardware is available, independently tested, X is >= 80% and Y <= 10% then I could see asking/forcing an ISP to utilize the technology. Until then, I haven't seen any technology that is that "advanced". Don't give them ideas! The intertubes have ears!
This is the same thing as a "content filter". It never works 100%, and only hurts the people who have valid reasons to visit "blocked" pages. My high school put a content filter into high gear, so much that it blocked video game console news sites, but yet they didn't block google videos or youtube. In fact I did an academic paper back then, and basically any filter that says that it works x% of the time, doesn't. This should be an opt-out system, you will get x% of people to go with the system (just like sheep! Bahhh!) because they are scared of the **AA, personally they can shove the system where the sun don't shine . If they implement this system, I'm buying a T1 and starting my own ISP; I'm taking pre-signups, anyone live in the Homer Glen area? . All I know is I wont bend over for some guy in a suit telling me how I need to run my network or what I need to put in it. | |
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1 edit | they will never learn when napster first came out riaa sales were up till they start complaning about the downloading | |
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1 edit | just dont buy cd if the isp play cops just dont buy cd anymore | |
| | maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 | Re: just dont buy cd I rarely buy CD's anyways. I buy the MP3's and burn my own. | |
| | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: just dont buy cd said by maartena:I rarely buy CD's anyways. I buy the MP3's and burn my own. Same, I get mine from Amazon usually. | |
| | | |  trparkyApple... YUMPremium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1 | Re: just dont buy cd said by Cheese:Same, I get mine from Amazon usually. Same thing I do.
--
Tom | |
|
| | Lets take our privacy back with encryption Alright it seems like these guys wont leave our personal rights alone, this is the invasion of privacy and we need to start developing more encrypted protocols to keep these nosy people out of our business. Start encrypting EVERY BIT. | |
| | | | Re: Lets take our privacy back with encryption said by Underplay:Alright it seems like these guys wont leave our personal rights alone, this is the invasion of privacy and we need to start developing more encrypted protocols to keep these nosy people out of our business. Start encrypting EVERY BIT. I wish. But, for whatever reason we created SSL to be 'vulnerable'. Even though I don't see it as such, every browser maker makes self signed certs as a virus.
Until we can embrace self-signed SSL or make 'ESSL' (enhanced SSL), our data wont be encrypted. There are papers written on how insecure self-signed SSL certs are, but what is SSL's real purpose? To provide an encryption between 2 parties.
SSL is 'broken', any bad guy can buy a certificate pretending to be from a certain domain. So, even CA signed certs are vulnerable from MITM attacks. | |
| | | | | Re: Lets take our privacy back with encryption What we need is a standardized encryption protocol for all protocol's. It should be as easy as cake to just include a library and not have to worry about different encryptions being used...Although it would be hard. | |
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|  jsz0Premium
join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT | It won't really help much. You can presently encrypt just about any traffic (including BitTorrent) but ultimately in the case of BT you need peers to exchange data with and those peers need a way of finding each other. As long as that is the case the RIAA/MPAA/etc can simply signup for the site just like anyone else and get the data they need. | |
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| | finally! Hooray! Someone finally "gets" it.
I can't believe the balls these lawyers have.
They'll charge for time and services, but think that they have the rights to that info (about the crime) even though a third party must use their own resources (time and money) to supply it.
Charge them say $10K/per hour, and document everything.
Say what, Mr RIAA/MPAA lawyer?
You feel that this is an unjustly large fee for this service?
I'm so sorry, please feel free to take it up with our customer complaint department in Mumbai.
Ask for Elvis, he will be most helpful to you in providing this info, once we have obtained the signed contract negotiating the services that you wish us to perform for you.
In other words, people in Hell want ice water.
They obviously cannot get it for "free", and neither can you. | |
|  fatnesssubtleJanitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:13
Bright House Netwo..
Earthlink DSL
TekSavvy
Forum Feature Requ..
Need Site Help
| chat session RIAA: This isn't working.
RIAA: Lawsuits cost us too much time and money to collect too little money.
RIAA: Need another plan.
RIAA: Get someone else to do the work for us.
RIAA: ISP's are chickenshit, they'll do it.
**********************************************
RIAA: Hello.
Small ISP: Hello.
RIAA: I am contacting you on behalf of the Recording Industry Association of America, Inc. (RIAA) and its member music companies. The RIAA is a trade association whose member companies create, manufacture, and distribute approximately ninety (90) percent of all legitimate music sold in the United States.
We believe a user on your network is offering an infringing sound recording for download through a peer to peer application. We have attached below the details of the infringing activity.
We have a good faith belief that this activity is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law. We are asking for your immediate assistance in stopping this illegal activity. Specifically, we respectfully request that you remove or disable access to the unauthorized music.
Small ISP: LOL
RIAA: Thank you in advance for your prompt assistance in this matter.
Small ISP: Where do I send the bill?
RIAA: WTF?
*************************************************
RIAA: This isn't working. | |
|  jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:1 | Still the wrong answer ISPs should refuse to play cop. They are under no such obligation. | |
| | | | Re: Still the wrong answer said by jjoshua:ISPs should refuse to play cop. They are under no such obligation. ISPs who play cop should lose their common carrier status and be liable for EVERYTHING that goes through their network. | |
| | | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 | Re: Still the wrong answer Which ISPs have this "common carrier" status? Common carrier applies to telephone services, that I know of; but when it it ever apply to ISPs?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
|
| | Theres a Better Way Forward The RIAA has this wrong they should be offering ISPs a revue share agreement where the ISPs continue to Allow filesharing to continue and integrate a subscription type fee for music shared across thier network .
In the UK one innovate ISP has agreements with several of the record labels and part of the montly service fee pays royalites to the content owners for unlimited "sharing" they do this via digital fingerprinting and deep packet inspection within the IPSs network
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayLouder
The EFF has also been proposing such a scheme for the past 5 years and we already know that the technology is available where ISPs can filter certain traffic like P2P so why not try and monetize that same traffic and turn the "illegal" file sharing into legal file sharing without frivolous lawsuits and threats to shut off peoples acess to the internet.
»www.eff.org/wp/better-way-forwar···-sharing | |
| | | | Re: Theres a Better Way Forward I agree. Thumbs up. | |
| | | | Who would pay the subscription fee? The customers? Would it be required or optional? If optional, how would the RIAA tell that User A who is sharing files has subscribed while User B hasn't? If required, what about deaf people or folks (like myself) who have no intention of sharing music files illegally. Why should we be charged to share music when we don't plan on doing so (or, in the case of deaf people, physically can't hear the songs that the RIAA is assuming we'll pirate)? | |
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approval from:
Core0000
| ISPs will get stuck with the crap end of the stick. If they start going this route, you will soon see lawsuits from users. And if the ISP's take money to do this, they will be stuck taking the heat verses the RIAA.
The only reason the RIAA is going this route is because they are being forced to start proving their cases to the courts, and they can't do it.
If service it getting shut off without proper proof, Sooner or later, it will come down to laws, and peoples rights that are being violated.
It would be almost like your neighbor calling the police, tell them that you speed by there hose at 80mph... the police sending you a letter, stop, or you will lose your license, or better yet, your car. ... 3rd time, they come down and take your car away. Yet, no proof, or court hearing, anything.. due process has been removed, and that is illegal. | |
| | jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: ISPs will get stuck with the crap end of the stick. said by NWRMidnight :
It would be almost like your neighbor calling the police, tell them that you speed by there hose at 80mph... the police sending you a letter, stop, or you will lose your license, or better yet, your car. ... 3rd time, they come down and take your car away. Yet, no proof, or court hearing, anything.. due process has been removed, and that is illegal.
Bad analogy.
The judicial system and your ISP are very different. | |
|
MrHappy316Wish I had my tankPremium
join:2003-01-02
Summerville, SC Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Other Repercussions The couple of high profile "Cyberbulling" cases could make this whole idea bad for ISP's. For civil matters if these ISP's are supposed to keep "illegal material" from traversing their networks they could also be held responsible for other non P2P stuff going on, like message board postings causing people to commit crimes. If they are held responsible for this they should be responsible to make sure no illegal stuff happens over their connection. A couple of lawsuits should straighten it out to make ISP seek shelter in the dump pipe theory. | |
| | jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Other Repercussions said by MrHappy316:A couple of lawsuits should straighten it out to make ISP seek shelter in the dump pipe theory. Good answer. If ISPs are filtering my connection for illegal material, then they are responsible if a virus infects my computer. If they let it through, then it must be ok, right? | |
| | | MrHappy316Wish I had my tankPremium
join:2003-01-02
Summerville, SC | Re: Other Repercussions Never thought about the good old virus, spam and email scams. ISP's could really be hosed with this idea. | |
| | |  Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
 ·Comcast
 ·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | said by jjoshua:said by MrHappy316:A couple of lawsuits should straighten it out to make ISP seek shelter in the dump pipe theory. Good answer. If ISPs are filtering my connection for illegal material, then they are responsible if a virus infects my computer. If they let it through, then it must be ok, right? man they would get sued so fast
as far as i know it's illegal to impersonate a cop
Deep packet inspection is also illegal as as it volates (The Fourth Amendment)
The Fourth Amendment specifies that any warrant must be judicially sanctioned for a search or an arrest, in order for such a warrant to be considered reasonable. Warrants must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a peace officer ) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court. | |
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kd6caeP2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Palmdale, CA Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
·AT&T U-Verse
| Here's a crazy thought Why not just allow file sharing and make it legal? I mean after all if I'm backing up my purchased content to an off site location, as I often do, I don't want my internet to be disconnected just because I happen to be sending music or movies over my internet link.
Plus, maybe just maybe we can finally get faster upload if these industries would realize that sharing content isn't such a horrible thing. I mean why do you think only 2 providers out of all the providers in the U.S. offer speeds greater than 2Mbit/sec up? If cablevision can do it, why aren't TWC and other providers offering same speeds over the exact same technology? I personally believe if Napster like file sharing were to be made legal, we could finally see internet technology improve as it should in both up and download directions! | |
| |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5
1 edit | Re: Here's a crazy thought said by kd6cae:Why not just allow file sharing and make it legal? I mean after all if I'm backing up my purchased content to an off site location, as I often do, I don't want my internet to be disconnected just because I happen to be sending music or movies over my internet link. Write your congress-critters -- but describe the whole model of how artists ought to be paid.
Free music on radio DID NOT HURT THE RECORD INDUSTRY. I think that's an important point. It drove demand for concerts, t-shirts, hats, fan magazines, and -- yes -- recordings. We're essentially asking for recordings to be free, now.
And what about movies, books, comics, software, and etc.?
If you're suggesting a new model -- which we definitely do need, it needs to be complete.
said by kd6cae: Plus, maybe just maybe we can finally get faster upload if these industries would realize that sharing content isn't such a horrible thing. I mean why do you think only 2 providers out of all the providers in the U.S. offer speeds greater than 2Mbit/sec up? A handful of ISPs understand this -- the rest are kidding themselves. The dummys think that if 33% of their bandwidth is file-sharing, that if they kill file-sharing that 33% turns to 0%. They fail to recognize that demand will be there for the high-bandwidth songs and videos -- legal or not.
The ISPs actually have no role in what's inside your communications. When you subscribe, they are providing communications services FOR YOU. It is wholly inappropriate for them to act secretly against your interests and I'm just waiting for the user-vs-ISP lawsuits that are bound to come up.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through. | |
| | | Reviews:
·Charter
| If they aren't performing as dumb pipes... If they are examining some of your traffic, then they have the chance to identify all of your traffic.
As such, they are no longer performing as a dumb pipe and could possibly be held responsible for anything that travels through their connections.
This would mean that someone could try for a class action suit for all the spam, trojans, spyware and viruses sent along. They could also try to declare themselves an interested party and sue on behalf of all the content owners, music, programs, pictures, etc.
Moving away from the protections of common carrier/dumb pipe would open them to all sorts of trouble.
Even trying to say they only inspect certain packets wouldn't really work because they have the means to identify those and look, what about all the other ones? | |
| | | DesdinovaPremium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD | Re: Here's a crazy thought "If you're suggesting a new model -- which we definitely do need, it needs to be complete."
I agree completely and I'm of the opinion that such a model already exists and is already firmly in place. That model is so old it's new: simply compense the creator directly for the creation. More musicians, filmmakers and other creative-types are taking control over their work and how they generate revenue streams; they're handling their own content creation, marketing and distribution. And there are more than enough distributors (of both hard copy and electronic copy) to assist them.
And in the long run this model has every thing it needs to be successful. As more artists recognize the benefits of being in charge of their careers (more artistic freedom, more money), fewer and fewer will probably sign with the majors...and suddenly one day the majors won't be so major anymore.
I suspect we're witnessing the final days of our generation's Edison Trust...and we've got a front row seat! | |
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|  devrandomI got a pot, full of random stuff herePremium
join:2003-06-28 | Unfettered file sharing, like DRM-less mp3s (which are the norm now, a la Amazon/Apple) is absolutely what we need to stop all of this ridiculousness.
It just takes an exceedingly long time for CEO/CFOs to take the sticks out of their rears, and to see that they'll continue to bleed out reputation and money fighting for the old paradigm rather than going with the newer one.
I'm sure there IS profit to be found in making file sharing completely legal, but the problem is that they'll be giving up things that they're used to, like control and cash. And faced with the prospect of lost profit/power, i'm sure they'll fight tooth and nail to keep their six digit plus paychecks flowing in.
At least one thing that has me scratching my head lately are some of the major ISPs. I understand that the DMCA is what it is now and they must reasonably stop the Bad Things That Happen On Their Network, but their vested interest in being the goons for copyright enforcement has gone a bit too far (installing hardware to interfere with connections, looking at deep packet inspection/filtering, implementing bandwidth caps (probably unrelated, but it is nod to extreme p2p usage)).
They made bags of money making 'file sharing' into something normal. Heck, a few years ago part of their advertising pitch was that you bought broadband to download music. They didn't say "P2P" outright, but if you didn't know what they meant, you probably weren't looking to buy broadband.
They should be trying to find ways to make money out of the situation like the **AAs and to provide more bandwidth so that we can innovate. Otherwise they will end up dying once small ISPs are able to take root with things like wireless which don't require incredible amounts of infrastructure and manpower. | |
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dougauPremium
join:2007-08-09
Dickson, TN | WOW! What a concept, the RIAA actually has to pay to protect their content instead of smooching off of everyone who pays taxes. | |
| jsz0Premium
join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT | Most likely scenario: IMO here's what will probably happen:
ISP charges a processing fee per incident on top of whatever monetary punishment the RIAA is requesting of the customer. Paid directly to the ISP while the RIAA charge is paid directly through the RIAA via whatever process they setup.
Assuming the average infraction takes 15-30 minutes the charge would be somewhere near $5-$10 to offset the time required by the ISP's employee(s) to deal with paper work, phone calls, etc.
This would replace the "3 strikes" rule many ISPs currently implement. If the customer is willing to pay the RIAA settlement and the ISP processing fee the ISP can make a reasonable argument that they are justified in having safe harbor protection and there would be no need to drop the customer.
Customers who refused to pay the processing fee might get a "3 strike" offer but at some point the cost of processing the consequences of the customer's action will make them unprofitable and the ISP will choose to drop them.
Ultimately I don't see it as being a question of copyright violation being right or wrong but instead a question of getting caught. The copyright holders understand they'll never stop piracy but they can push it back to the fringes of people who are technically literate enough to avoid getting caught. | |
| | zipjay
join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| True Anonynimity: Don't own the connection one thing alot of people have failed to mention is what happens when some dumb guy has an open access point and people download on his connection.. or grandma has an open access point or what about a schools AP? starbucks APs, etc. etc... you cant sue those that don't own the connection  | |
| | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: True Anonynimity: Don't own the connection one reason i keep my AP secure among the usuals lol. WPA2-PSK, sure it has been cracked but nobody is gunna sit in my driveway long enough to do it. besides if they are in my driveway i can subject their car to the Craftsman Firewall(aka Sledge Hammer) should i find them trying to hack my AP.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 uther
join:2001-12-04
Saint Louis, MO | Foreshadowing... Watch RIAA lobby government to mandate ISPs to do this. | |
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