A Very Merry Christmas For AT&T, Comcast CEOsIt's good to be the king... ( old news - 12:58PM Monday Dec 24 2007) tags: business · Comcast · AT&T DSL ServiceAppScout directs your attention to a new database that's part of a SEC effort to transparently track executive compensation. According to the database, Comcast CEO Brian Roberts takes home a $2.5 yearly million salary--but with bonuses, stock awards and other assorted perks, that number jumps to $26 million annually. Departed AT&T CEO Ed Whitacre last year netted a nifty yearly compensation package of $60.7 million. Echostar boss Carl E. Vogel is forced to slum it with yearly compensation of $2.8 million. Some additional names and numbers: •Alltel: Scott T. Ford, president and CEO, $14.1 million •DirecTV: Chase Carey, president and CEO, $12.4 million •Intel: Paul Otellini, president and CEO, $9.8 million •Level 3 Communications: James Q. Crowe, CEO, $8.7 million •Qwest: Richard Notebaert, chairman and CEO, $16.5 million •Sirius Satellite Radio: Mel Karmazin, CEO, $31.1 million •Sprint Nextel: Gary D. Forsee, chairman, CEO, and president, $21.3 million •Verizon: Ivan Seidenberg, chairman and CEO, $21.2 million
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19 | Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! And Howard Stern is making over three times that per year. At least the talent is making more than the suit in this case. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by MadMANN  :And Howard Stern is making over three times that per year. At least the talent is making more than the suit in this case. Stern is worth every penny and then some. If he had not single-handedly increase Sirius' subscribership by at least 4x, Sirius would have gone under by now.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by pnh102 :said by MadMANN :And Howard Stern is making over three times that per year. At least the talent is making more than the suit in this case. Stern is worth every penny and then some. If he had not single-handedly increase Sirius' subscribership by at least 4x, Sirius would have gone under by now. I agree 100%. | |
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onebadmofo
Repost These Nuts In Your Mouth.
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA | Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! But if he's bringing in so much more customers, why are their stocks are nothing but shit? | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19 | Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! If you think they are shit now, you should have seen them before he showed up and pulled the sub numbers up. They would be out of business completely if not for him. | |
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onebadmofo
Repost These Nuts In Your Mouth.
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by MadMANN : If you think they are shit now, you should have seen them before he showed up and pulled the sub numbers up. They would be out of business completely if not for him. Oh yeah I seen them. That's why I bought into them. I though he'd bring that business up and I thought I'd make some money off of them. Turns out...I'm losing money. | |
| | | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by onebadmofo :said by MadMANN : If you think they are shit now, you should have seen them before he showed up and pulled the sub numbers up. They would be out of business completely if not for him. Oh yeah I seen them. That's why I bought into them. I though he'd bring that business up and I thought I'd make some money off of them. Turns out...I'm losing money. I made a nice chunk. I owned their stock when it was at the low low price of 1.76 a share, needless to say I sat on it and watched XM climb thanks to clearchannels advertising infusion and kept holding , once that sucker hit almost $10 a share i dumped it faster then I could type.
Laughed all the way to the bank.
Right now owning Sirius is a good looking gamble if they merge it's a gold mine.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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onebadmofo
Repost These Nuts In Your Mouth.
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by BosstonesOwn :said by onebadmofo :said by MadMANN : If you think they are shit now, you should have seen them before he showed up and pulled the sub numbers up. They would be out of business completely if not for him. Oh yeah I seen them. That's why I bought into them. I though he'd bring that business up and I thought I'd make some money off of them. Turns out...I'm losing money. I made a nice chunk. I owned their stock when it was at the low low price of 1.76 a share, needless to say I sat on it and watched XM climb thanks to clearchannels advertising infusion and kept holding , once that sucker hit almost $10 a share i dumped it faster then I could type. Laughed all the way to the bank. Right now owning Sirius is a good looking gamble if they merge it's a gold mine. I heard that if they merge, stocks on the Sirius side won't much of anything. But the XM side of things could see a big increase.
How could that be true? | |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! Obviously because they would now have access to the great Bababooey. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
 ·Embarq
| said by pnh102 :said by MadMANN :And Howard Stern is making over three times that per year. Stern is worth every penny and then some. Let's quantify to whom: Stern is worth three times that much to Sirius; he's worth nothing to me, and hasn't been since I outgrew him 20 years ago. Same tired old shtick still working its magic on the young or developmentally challenged.
The communism crap argument is too old to entertain. The salaries of CEOs are obscene in comparison to labor. Period.
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.sig murdered by teh Grease Man | |
| | | | | gswonsn
join:2000-11-03
Atlanta, GA
·Comcast
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! They will continue to lose money as long as they offer the inferior content that they do and over pay those that don't deserve that much money. I am only worried that if and/or when their merger with the much netter XM radio that they will change it. I got a free subscription to Sirius with a new car and it has been the biggest disappointment of that purchase. They are not the best radio on radio, but merely a non-commercial subscription radio that is no better than listening to free over the air broadcast. Why is Stern worth that much money when XM was able to get Oprah for much less than $1 million? Seems that they are much better bargainers and would some day some be profitable since they are paying talent and executives all the money that their subscribers pay each month. | |
| | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! Because Oprah is just a brand , she doesn't develop content for their system , just rehashed shit from her show.
Oprah took the money and ran , just like she does from her followers.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | | | | | Reese1972
join:2003-03-08
Hazel Park, MI | Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! The sound is not that good either. | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA
·CableOne
1 edit | Yes, the first thing I thought when I read this post was "Sirius is losing boat-loads of money and they're paying this asshole $31M a year?!?" Like, WTF, M8?!?
Either get someone in there who can change some things and help the annual reports, or give this asshat a 95% pay cut.
Edit: there != they're - doh! | |
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redhat1968
join:2000-10-17
Appleton, WI
clubs: | I wouldn't roll out of bed for that chump change.... | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by pnh102 : quote:
Sirius Satellite Radio: Mel Karmazin, CEO, $31.1 million
"Gordon Gekko" was right. I love my Sirius service but paying any executive this kind of salary when the company is losing money hand over fist is insane. I'll make an offer to Sirius... Hire me to be the CEO. I will continue losing money, but take only $1 million a year. Doesn't seeing that pay day make you sick ? I think he is a good ceo but not that good.
Seeing at&t and the comcast ones make me sick as well. These drops add a lot to the bucket when it comes to price increases.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by BosstonesOwn :Doesn't seeing that pay day make you sick ? I think he is a good ceo but not that good. Well just to clarify, I would have no problem with Karmazin making infinity dollars an hour if Sirius was also making that kind of money.
said by BosstonesOwn :Seeing at&t and the comcast ones make me sick as well. These drops add a lot to the bucket when it comes to price increases. I'm not familiar with AT&T or Comcast's financial details so I can't really comment on their executive pay. However, I do know that AT&T Wireless still seems to have the same dead zones in the same places as it has had for many years, and has yet to fix them. You'd think with all the money spent on trashing the Cingular brand that they could have put up a few new cell towers instead.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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onebadmofo
Repost These Nuts In Your Mouth.
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by pnh102 :said by BosstonesOwn :Doesn't seeing that pay day make you sick ? I think he is a good ceo but not that good. Well just to clarify, I would have no problem with Karmazin making infinity dollars an hour if Sirius was also making that kind of money. said by BosstonesOwn :Seeing at&t and the comcast ones make me sick as well. These drops add a lot to the bucket when it comes to price increases. I'm not familiar with AT&T or Comcast's financial details so I can't really comment on their executive pay. However, I do know that AT&T Wireless still seems to have the same dead zones in the same places as it has had for many years, and has yet to fix them. You'd think with all the money spent on trashing the Cingular brand that they could have put up a few new cell towers instead. AT&T is now Cingular. After acquiring those other towers...they're STILL shitty? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by onebadmofo :AT&T is now Cingular. After acquiring those other towers...they're STILL shitty? Well prior to the original merger, in which Cingular bought out the old AT&T Wireless (2003ish I think?), they had roamed on each other's networks. I had noticed the same dead zones we ran into near my relatives' houses back at that time are still there now.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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onebadmofo
Repost These Nuts In Your Mouth.
Premium
join:2002-03-30
Reading, PA
| Re: No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money! said by pnh102 :said by onebadmofo :AT&T is now Cingular. After acquiring those other towers...they're STILL shitty? Well prior to the original merger, in which Cingular bought out the old AT&T Wireless (2003ish I think?), they had roamed on each other's networks. I had noticed the same dead zones we ran into near my relatives' houses back at that time are still there now. Yeah I have those dead zones with Nextel. You go into my mother in laws house and there goes your reception. | |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA
| Sure, if they make profit A Steve Jobs or Brian Roberts make the money do they do because the companies they run are insanely successful with great margins. But some of these companies are losing their ass and these dopes still pull down millions and millions. Hell, put me in there. I can have a company losing millions too and I'll do it for beer money. | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA
·CableOne
| Re: Sure, if they make profit said by DotMac :and I'll do it for beer money. Hey now, don't forget a good mid-life crisis car (regardless of your age).  | |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | Re: Sure, if they make profit I gotta car but I'm always runnin' low on beer | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA | Re: Sure, if they make profit Amen, brother  | |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| RE:Good to be King These obscene bonuses, and salaries for these people are some of the reasons why I am in favor of a MAXIMUM job compensation, wage, salary, whatever you want to call it. Any compensation over a given amount, should be taxed at 110%. Then they would have no incentive to get these platinum parachutes, and obscene bonuses, stock options, and other percs. These should be illegal. Especially when they are sending jobs overseas, and for the jobs that stay in the US, they pay people garbage!
If we taxed these obscene amounts of money given to these bass turds, than we could pay off the debt that the current administration has put us into, in virtually no time flat. We might even be able to develop alternative fuels, and grant healthcare for all citizens as well.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: RE:Good to be King said by roc5955 :These obscene bonuses, and salaries for these people are some of the reasons why I am in favor of a MAXIMUM job compensation, wage, salary, whatever you want to call it. That's called communism. There are plenty of communist countries that still exist if you prefer. | |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: RE:Good to be King Actually it's called a progressive tax rate and we had it at 70% Federal (plus put State and localities on top of that) up until the early 80's. Lowering those rates resulted in a substantial revenue increase to the Treasury. Unfortunately Congress spent it all plus more.
Raising the tax rate won't do anything but kill investment. Cutting executive salaries won't do sh!t as even these seemingly high numbers are nothing compared to what is spent on labor by these titanic corporations.
In Sirius' case, $31 million is nothing compared to the $1 billion they lose a year. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| said by MadMANN :said by roc5955 :These obscene bonuses, and salaries for these people are some of the reasons why I am in favor of a MAXIMUM job compensation, wage, salary, whatever you want to call it. That's called communism. There are plenty of communist countries that still exist if you prefer. yeah? and there are many things in this country that could be considered communism.
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People pray to God because they're told to. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19 | Re: RE:Good to be King such as? | |
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| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
3 edits | Yep more than plenty. (regards to Communism / Socialism)
Enjoy your police force, firefighters, and EMS? Well guess what. It's socialized by the federal government. Your taxes pay but so do everyone else's. To make this even more communist based, say X city has a fire, they will go and help out another city. IE exactly what communism is, collective actions. So say Chicago has a major fire, another district will expend their citizens tax dollars to go help fight it. DOH.
Enjoy the roads you drive on. Thank the 1950's socialized program to build federal highways. States could have never afforded these on their own budgets. Hence, everyone paying taxes back then had their money collectively dolled out to the states so this could be done. It's still happening a matter of fact when highways are redone via construction.
Love sending your kids to school? Socialism / Communism again. Schools are partly funded by levis. However, federal, state, and local governments socialize their income as it's never enough. So unless you want your kids learning in a one room log cabin, I guess you favor communism.
Best of all, love electricity? I know I do. Got to love how the Northern States (Those paying the MOST TAXES) subsidized / socialized the southern states so places like the Tennessee Valley Authority could bring in electricity in the 30s and 40's.
The list goes on and on. So people who scream socialism will ruin this country simply don't have 2 bits of common sense. Unless you want every city to run independently on the money it collects and receive no other help, then it's a common place ritual in our everyday lives. You might wish to mask it under the guise of "capitalism". However, it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its simply communism / socialism. Everyone helping everyone for the benefit of all. | |
| | | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| said by MadMANN :That's called communism. There are plenty of communist countries that still exist if you prefer. That's an odd assertion... when business owners/officers seek out a *socially* created legal entity (the corporation) to make their business goals less risky, less subject to the truly raw market forces they would face without that artificially-created entity.
See: »Re: Blah blah blah...
Mark | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: RE:Good to be King How is that an odd assertion. In communist countries, you make the same amount of money no matter what you do. The idea of having a maximum compensation is pretty much against the idea of free enterprise. So, maybe communism would be an extreme description, but it certainly is not completely off mark. | |
| | | | | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: RE:Good to be King said by MadMANN :The idea of having a maximum compensation is pretty much against the idea of free enterprise. So is the SEC, food and drug quality laws, or going to Society to receive a socially-created entity (the corporation) to stand as the fall guy if things go wrong. It's just a matter of degrees isn't it? In each case it's a desire to make the market more predictable, eliminating caveat emptor, etc.
said by MadMANN :So, maybe communism would be an extreme description, but it certainly is not completely off mark. As I mentioned in a previous post, whether it's intended or not, those who invoke the 'ism word (facism, communism, socialism) usually do so in order to invoke an automatic reflex among other Americans. It's like invoking "nazi or hitler". We've all been raised to reflexivly recoil against these things.
But, if you objectively consider our system (socialized capitalism?), we're really talking about matters of degrees. Invoking the 'isms is only intended to close off any rational discussion (IMO).
Mark | |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by MadMANN :said by roc5955 :These obscene bonuses, and salaries for these people are some of the reasons why I am in favor of a MAXIMUM job compensation, wage, salary, whatever you want to call it. That's called communism. There are plenty of communist countries that still exist if you prefer. Oh, so I guess that when Eisenhower was president, and people in the highest income bracket were taxed at a 90% rate we lived in a communist country.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | There is nothing more portable than rich people and money. They'll find a way around any legal cap you would place on them. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by roc5955 :We might even be able to develop alternative fuels, and grant healthcare for all citizens as well. Where's the financial incentive for anyone to do that if those who do it are taxed at 110%?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Mrq5
The Fab Four
join:1999-08-21
Warren, MI
1 edit | Double-post, I intended to post in this thread. I fully understand how the OP feels.
What we see here is 1 serious side affect caused by the tech boom, over the last 20 years. Technology has allowed corps to produce more goods and services far cheaper. Tech advances also created a global shrinking, where it is easier and cheaper to produce goods/services farther (cheap labor). What this has left us with are fewer US middle-class workers required to produce the same goods/services. Tech and Manufacturing (ex. Cars) companies are producing far more than 20-50 years ago since there are far more potential consumers(6 Billion). Also the same companies were making profits with far more employees needed 20-50 years ago. The big diff now are the executive salaries. TECHNOLOGY HAS SHIFTED MORE LOOT TO THE EXECS/RICH. 20-50 years ago an exec salary would be 3-10X more than the employee. Now that all the US workers are no longer required exec salaries have skyrocketed 100X++ more than the employee.
For me this is an irony since I am employeed as a mid-level tech manager. Even still I can not ignore this obvious side affect of tech. | |
| | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Tit for tat, this country is was founded off the backs of hard working Americans. Unfortunately, it's this same concept that has proven to be our downfall. The shrinking middle class is stuck paying more for the services, while the rich often find ways to avoid helping. It's not to say corporations do not do a lot of good. Many donate and help rebuild communities. It's simply to say that many people within them find loopholes, that others are not privy to. It certainly has to be nice to have an offshore account to hide one's funds, while the rest of us cover the cost. As I said, this country is socialistic with a capitalistic undertone. IE, we have a free market (in some ways) but our actions are that of communism / socialism. No cities run independently upon their own funds and nothing else. If that were the case, we'd have true capitalism. IE your city goes broke, tough sh*t. It cannot afford services then residents go elsewhere to ones that can. Fortunately, we live in a country that looks out for one another in some respects. Still, this does not mean some within it would rather not take part and dodge their responsibilities. Personally, I think welfare is overused. There should be limits. Yet, there also needs to be opportunity. My feeling is that welfare should be 2 years maximum with mandatory job training and daycare provided. This job training could include going to school via student loans and obtaining an education at the person's own expense (as we all have to do) or learning a skill or trade. Likewise, those who take in big bucks also need to be held accountable. We need to close those holes that let them live scott free while the rest of us shell the burden. It's a two way street, and unfortunately, those with money often have the ability to decide the policies the rest of us must adhere to. | |
| jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk
| Blah blah blah... The typical parade begins... same as the "I'll take $10 million to go 3 minutes with Mike Tyson (back in the day)" or "I'll take $600k to play an NFL football game..." It's not the 3 minutes or the single fiscal year that earns these people their money -- it's the lifetime of experience, work, long hours, etc.
Give it some thought -- why do you think these executives earn so much? Don't you think maybe the board of directors thinks they're worth it? Clearly SOMEONE does, because corporations don't generally pay ANYONE more than they're worth -- janitors, factory workers, vice presidents, or CEOs.
Don't forget -- if you really wanted to get paid that much, I mean really wanted it, it's only your own fault that you aren't. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA | Re: deleted They are all over paid. Not even a neurosurgeon deserves that much.
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People pray to God because they're told to. | |
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downwithatt
@comcast.net | Re: Almost cracked my mouse in half when I read. I agree. Any CEO who overuses lawyers to bully the competition and local government officials to further their selfish endeavors deserves terrible things. | |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Add me to the list •Ninja Mercenaries Inc: Ninja R. Tutle , 2nd Battalion, 3rd LT, $21.5 thousand | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| OVERPAID!! no wonder everything costs so much.. 20+million a yr? insane.
perhaps a reality check is in order for these co's how about paying 'normal' wages to your exec's (+stock options) and putting the rest of that extra $$ back into the co so you can lower prices. | |
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Mrq5
The Fab Four
join:1999-08-21
Warren, MI
1 edit | Rich getting Richer What we see here is 1 serious side affect caused by the tech boom, over the last 20 years. Technology has allowed corps to produce more goods and services far cheaper. Tech advances also created a global shrinking, where it is easier and cheaper to produce goods/services farther (cheap labor). What this has left us with are fewer US middle-class workers required to produce the same goods/services. Tech and Manufacturing (ex. Cars) companies are producing far more than 20-50 years ago since there are far more potential consumers(6 Billion). Also the same companies were making profits with far more employees needed 20-50 years ago. The big diff now are the executive salaries. TECHNOLOGY HAS SHIFTED MORE LOOT TO THE EXECS/RICH. 20-50 years ago an exec salary would be 3-10X more than the employee. Now that all the US workers are no longer required exec salaries have skyrocketed 100X++ more than the employee.
For me this is an irony since I am employeed as a mid-level tech manager. Even still I can not ignore this obvious side affect of tech. | |
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tomj1225
Premium
join:2001-12-17
Allentown, PA
·RCN CABLE
| CEO Pay But they are worth that much. Like anything else, it's worth what someone else will pay for it. From Ebay items to Donovan McNabb to the Wii, it's worth what someone else will pay for it and not always the value it brings. There's value in having stability at CEO, even if the company is losing money. It's up to the board to determine what they're paid, and when he gets the boot out. If you don't like it, don't buy the product or the stock. | |
| | joeMI
join:2006-08-15
Mcmillan, MI
| Re: CEO Pay said by tomj1225 :... It's up to the board to determine what they're paid, and when he gets the boot out. ... LOL. Most CEO's sit on multiple boards. It is extremely rare for a CEO/President to be booted out unless there is a scandal or the board member(s) need to cash in a favor.
Most executive perks can be followed from company to company. It's the old vote for my pay package and I'll vote for yours.
If you list out the board members of the top 500 companies, you'll see the same names over and over.
It's this circle of people that buy Congress and often access to the White House. Most of the time, they give money to both sides because they don't care who is there as long as they have access and hopefully influence over legislation.
So don't expect any legislation to cap executive pay.
How did we get here? Mutual funds. In the old days, stockholders were directly involved. Today, we have turned it over to fund managers and it is all about short term growth and stock price.
Just my two cents,
Joe | |
| | | amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| Re: CEO Pay said by joeMI :How did we get here? Mutual funds. In the old days, stockholders were directly involved. Brilliant observation. Since the '80s (and especially '90s) the stock market has been awash in liquidity like no other time in history due to the influx of hands-off, set-it-and-forget-it 401k money. This creates greater stability and predictable upward momentum compared to the pre-401k days when investing in the market was less widespread, and normally tied to one company (not a basket of 500 or 2000 stocks).
Not only is there more money injected into the market without any interest in how companies are run, but the stability and upward momentum this regular injection of "disinterested cash" directly benefits officers of corporations whose compensation is usually in the form of stock grants. I.e., without this massive dose of predictable liquidity the value of their compensation would be less predictable.
I think we've all benefited by more money going into the stock market. But, it hasn't been without its downsides, such as (as you noted) more control over corporate governance handed to a few mutual fund managers by the disinterested "investor" (who's really just a "saver").
It always gets back to not whether socialization of the market (by influencing money into stocks, for example, through Public Law creating 401ks) is beneficial, but whether it benefits some more than others, and how to capture that fact when it comes time to pay for the cost of government (which creates these artificial, non-free market opportunities).
A progressive tax always seems to be the easiest way to do it.
Mark | |
| 
i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS
·Comcast
| person there are not many people in the world capable of doing what these people do. the vision and leading the entire corporation. this is why they are considered superstars of the business world. haha
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»www.thereligionofpeace.com/ | |
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fubar
@comcast.net | hohoho I suppose all of them expect a Christmas bonus too. | |
| ltjordan
join:2001-12-02
Hyattsville, MD | Poor Carl Vogel.... How is he going to be able to feed his family on 2.8 million annually? I hope his family doesn't freeze while waiting in line at the soup kitchen. Lol. | |
| taar
join:2000-11-21
·Charter Pipeline
2 edits | Ford's CEO takes home $14M?? This is incredible!! Ford keeps on putting out shitty products, closing plants, laying workers off and are fast losing share to the imports. Yet the CEO is taking home $14M?? For what?? If pay was linked to performance, this fool should be paying Ford $14M for all the decisions he made that is ruining the company! Dont get me wrong, i have no issues paying someone millions in salary if the company he runs is going gang busters business wise. How the hell do these guys sleep at night??
Well, now i think about it, probably on silk sheets on a soft bed in a solid gold bed frame.... | |
| 
ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
·Comcast
| typical america 31million a year?
damn.
I can only sit here and dream what i would do with that kind of cash in my wallet, it must be nice not worrying if your going to eat or make that next bill or afford gas.
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"I am the worst president in U.S history, I'm either stupid or dumb most of the time, but people still believe me." George W. Bush | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | don't like the smell? Don't buy services from these companies. Plain and simple.
It's YOUR money they goes to these scum-buckets and you WILLINGLY give it away to them. | |
| | 
Rexter
YeeHaw
join:2002-11-17
cloud 9
| Mark your perfolio. I love these listings. I think that this is all fine and great. When you make your 2008 stock pics, just remember what companies are designed by the management, for the management. When a company that's loosing money provides a multi-million dollar bonus to a CEO, whose plan is still loosing money, are they looking out for the stock holder? I think I'll move on to the next stock to research, thanks. I must admit, that I do own some sprint stock. But I was willing to pay less for it, because I know that they are not looking out for me.
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With every new wave of optimism, or pessimism, we are ready to abandon history, and time tested principles, but we cling tenaciously and unquestioningly to our prejudices. (Benjamin Graham) | |
| 
longstreet
join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX | FAKE There's a little disclosure at the bottom of the SEC site that says all of the data contained in the database is basically phony.
Ho-Hum - a good try, but it appears that these numbers are fake. | |
| | rextilleon
join:2003-12-28
Pleasantville, NY | Re: FAKE There seems to be something inherently wrong with our economic system if losers get rewarded for failure! | |
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sandnomad
@alltel.net
| Our Wonderful CEOs I found it interesting that so many are making such illusionary remarks concerning executive salaries. It is a well known fact, if you read history, that in all societies, the rich and ruling class always get richer, be it socialism, facsism, naziism, capitalism, dictatorship, or monarchy. I believe it is often referred to as "Greed". It recently cost Bhutto her life in Pakistan.(I don't know why she thought Musharif would give up his opportunity to increase the $10 billion he has gotten from the U.S. since 9/11.) As working middle-class Americans, just try to remember, "YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU DIE". In this country, it would take nothing short of a revolution to change the quagmire our politicians have ingeniously fabricated. Even those politicians have created golden parachutes for themselves. They have the best retirement plan, excellent salary, and best health insurance taxpayer dollars can buy. The real irony is that they don't even pay social security taxes on the salaries that we pay them. They exempted themselves from the system years ago. They're not STUPID, they're just GREEDY. Why would anyone want to invest their income in a system, which thanks to Richard Nixon, now resides as part of the General Fund, so politicians can steal more of your money, and you have no recourse, because you have to pay into it, but odds are pretty damned good you won't be getting your money back. Great investment, Huh.
I think we all need to understand that the stock market is grossly over-valued, but please try to remember that if it wasn't, you wouldn't be getting that good return on your 401k or mutual fund "investment". We also have to be thankful that we are paying over $3 a gallon for gasoline, which is projected to go even higher, [since our good buddies the Kuwaities now only accept Euros for their oil(By the way, the Euro has increased 40% in value in the past seven years) and other Middle Eastern exporters are expected to eventually follow suit], even though we've had the technology to produce electric cars in this country for at least 15 years. The fact that Chevron bought majority stock in both Cobasys and Ovonics and basically stopped the production of high-capacity nickel metal hydride batteries, and lobbyed good old Congress to stop their import from the only overseas manufacturer Panasonic, seems to be, I guess you would say, a Congressional Oversight. That is precisely why Tesla and other electric car manufacturers are forced to go with lithium ion batteries. The patent lawyers for the oil companies can't buy up all the lithium ion battery patents, because, strangely enough, the technology was originally licensed to thousands. Thank goodness "Corporations" didn't think lithium ion was important a few years ago.
Probably the smartest thing I've seen in Corporate America lately is GM's new contract with the UAW. They managed to dump their healthcare program, a $50-60 billion dump, which is greater than all the mentioned CEO salaries combined, and in my opinion, they will eventually dump their retirement program as well(or at least I sure hope so), because thanks to the boys and girls in Washington who federally insured GMs pension plan, the U.S. taxpayer will have to pay the retirement for GM employees if it isn't dumped on the union. You can't have a retirement program where 375,000 are retired and only 72,000 are employed (Thank God for NAFTA and OurSourcing). Damn, that sounds a lot like Social Security. I guess the government is going to have to continue to try to evenly distribute the income amongst the masses, and just remember, if it becomes a problem, just print more money. The solution is easy. It's the ramifications that are difficult.
I really cannot understand why many Americans feel that we have no socialistic, societal tendencies. Hell we alreay have "Social Security"(even though the account is empty), various "Social Service Agencies" throughout government, and most current politicians who are trying to gain admittance to the White House, are advocating "National Health Insurance". Where is capitalism in all that?
I think it is high time that we try to wake ourselves from that deep sleep that we are in and have been for the past several years(but that may take a pill from the drug companies). Just think, they could get another patent for 17 years and charge us all a small fortune for the drug, which would be manufactured in Mexico, or India, or China, or somewhere else in this global economy. Maybe the CEO of the company that developed it would get a larger salary and a few more bonuses. It's just the democratic way. I guess it would be better if we just had a strong cup of coffee, but where is the profit margin in that! Hell, Starbucks charges $2 or so for something that costs about a nickel to make at home. Damn, I forgot, lots of people no longer have a home. They have been foreclosed on by the lending institutions, ie. banks, who as it just so happened, got $20 billion from the U.S. government last week to help offset mortgage losses, (which means for the banks to buy up all the foreclosed property they can get, so they can sell it back to all those homeless people who can't afford the loans anyway, when prices are driven back up and property is further over valued). I think it's called "Constructive Financing" or something like that. I guess that is precisely why good old Ben B. has lowered interest rates twice now.
We all must realize that even now the Canadians and Mexicans are both pissed at us. The Canadians, because the U.S. dollar is now so worthless that the Canadian dollar is at an all-time high(I guess that is why Chrysler is considering ceasing their minivan production in Canada for at least a couple of years), and the Mexicans are upset, because even the peso has risen against the dollar, so that the money they are sending home is worth even less. I recently heard that a lot of them are considering returning to Mexico, but they want to get their kids in school in Mexico and that requires them to have "Mexican" citizenship, unlike to good old U.S. of A., so now we are creating a lot more dual citizens south of the border. I guess that is better though, because now they can migrate, legally or illegally, back and forth as needed when currency values vascillate.
I am certainly impressed with CEO salaries and perks these days and have tried to comment on the rationale for making those salaries justifiable. It is just called democracy. Even our leaders practice it. I am certain that everyone knows that one of the last bills that William Jefferson Clinton(our former CEO) signed into law before leaving office was to increase the President's salary from $200,000 a year to $400,000 a year, and surprisingly enough, one of the first bills that George W. Bush(our current CEO) signed into law was a Presidental Pardon for William Jefferson Clinton. Look at it this way, Mr. Clinton saved millions, and Mr. Bush got a $200,000 raise.
Don't you just love "Democracy"! It makes you feel downright patriotic.
"The Patriot"
P.S. God bless the men and women of our military, who are in Harm's Way in various countries throughout the World!!!!!!!! | |
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No Wonder Sirius is Losing Money!
More info on this here
