 NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| I CALL BS I've never seen that fee on my parents/grandparents phone bills nor is it on my phone bill.
Just another money grabbing attempt. If there's any local fee's it's called city tax.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: I CALL BS I don't think a company has a right to pass on every cost of doing business to a customer because there are some costs that a customer doesn't incur on the business that they should be responsible for.
Businesses are supposed to have expenses, yes, but if they have more expenses than they have income from customers, either they need to get more customers for more income, or they need to cut expenses. Customers shouldn't have to pay for corporate mismanagement or abuse or flat out stupid decisions made by management that didn't pan out. Or corporate fleecing.
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"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | Re: I CALL BS Why not? Customers are a flock to profit from. A company has every right to pass whatever charges it wants to the customer.
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kustomerservice.net | |
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| | | matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT
edit:
January 10th, @01:36PM
| Re: I CALL BS Yes, and customers also have the right to tell the company to shove it and take their business elsewhere. Unless, of course, that company is the only choice for service in that area. Hm... | |
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Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari
join:2005-05-17
·Comcast
| Yep, they sure can. So let them make it part of the advertised cost.
This is NOT about whether companies have the right to make money and charge what they want. AT&T is completely within its rights. The issue here, and what makes it -wrong- (NOT illegal, just -wrong-) is this surfeit of "fees" as distinguished from "cost". What is argued by many (and I happen to agree with it) is, charge what you want. But SAY that's what you're charging. Go ahead and break it out on the bill, if you want. But DON'T try to create the farce that you're "charging" some amount of dollars for the service you're providing, and then tack on fee after fee to push the price higher.
Telcos do it. Airlines do it. Mail-order companies do it. It's not an AT&T thing. It's still wrong, whoever's doing it. Charge us an amount, say it up front, and be honest about it. That's all I ask for. If it costs me $57.23 per month, $89.10 per month, whatever, just say it. But if you tell me I'll pay $10.95 or whatever, then that should be what's on my bill.
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With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
Save American Soccer - Stop the MLS! | |
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| | | | justgold79
join:2008-01-13 | Re: I CALL BS okay, but I __highly__ doubt this is advertised, it was most likely hidden and probably can be taken off if you raise all kinds of hell with them. | |
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| | hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by DHRacer  :I don't think a company has a right to pass on every cost of doing business to a customer because there are some costs that a customer doesn't incur on the business that they should be responsible for. Businesses are supposed to have expenses, yes, but if they have more expenses than they have income from customers, either they need to get more customers for more income, or they need to cut expenses. Customers shouldn't have to pay for corporate mismanagement or abuse or flat out stupid decisions made by management that didn't pan out. Or corporate fleecing. try running your own company before spouting off like this. | |
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| | | stunod2002
join:2003-11-07
Carol Stream, IL
| Re: I CALL BS said by hescominsoon :said by DHRacer :I don't think a company has a right to pass on every cost of doing business to a customer because there are some costs that a customer doesn't incur on the business that they should be responsible for. Businesses are supposed to have expenses, yes, but if they have more expenses than they have income from customers, either they need to get more customers for more income, or they need to cut expenses. Customers shouldn't have to pay for corporate mismanagement or abuse or flat out stupid decisions made by management that didn't pan out. Or corporate fleecing. try running your own company before spouting off like this. I don't disagree with him in this.. It's not necessarily the best approach but when you are basically a monopoly and have very little fear of loosing your customers to competitors you can get away with it..
Now if burger king decided to charge a fee for cooking your burgers (a charge that they have been absorbing for decades) they would have every right to do so but because we have mc donalds they wouldn't get away with it.. | |
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| | | | quatrix
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL | Re: I CALL BS What monopoly? Alternatives to an AT&T landline include multiple cell providers, VoIP, and others. | |
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annonn
@lamrc.com | Re: I CALL BS Yeah lets see you rely on 911 service from a cell or a dead VIOP connection during a power outage. | |
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| | | | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: I CALL BS Lots of people choose to. If you don't choose to, then pay up.
Ain't freedom wonderful? | |
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johnqpublic
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Xanadu
| Re: I CALL BS said by EGeezer :No problem. I have the police chief's cellphone number and the EMT guys all know us. We are all impressed. 
Now, in the real world, how many people in the country do you think have that option? The poster's response is a very real concern to many individuals when it comes to the shortcomings VOIP and 911 services. | |
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EGeezer
Spring is here
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T CallVantage
edit:
January 13th, @08:05PM
| What the POTS companies don't tell you How well does POTS 911 work when the baddies cut the phone company lines? Around here they run the lines where anybody with a pair of dikes can whack them. The Demark is a plastic box at my house that anybody with a screwdriver can pop open. A lady's foot, hand drill and a hack saw can compromise the distribution boxes in the alleys and the plastic box at my property line is falling apart as I write this. Of course the POTS folks who worry so much about power failures didn't seem to care about that when I brought it up with my land line carrier. Having burglars or home invaders cut lines should be a very real concern to many people.
Don't count on the land line providers to solve problems quickly or cooperate with othervendors if you do have a problem. They'll stall, deny and finger point at anyplace from their demark out to you, which in some subdivisions and condos may cross several pieces controlled by several companies. It make take days or weeks just to get them to verify their own stuff. Then you also have to deal with everybody else along the line. Heaven only knows how many companies may be involved with bringing that POTS dial tone to your phone, but you can be sure none of them will talk to any others. With the one issue I had with VoIP voice quality early on, my ISP and ATT CV were very cooperative and worked together to solve the issue.
These are a few reasons why we have cell phones as well as VoIP and a land line. Our POTS has been down more times than my internet in the last five years. My longest ISP outage was 2 1/2 hours form outage to online. My longest landline outage was over three days from when I called. The local phone company balked and threatened to bill us even though we still had line guard service and a phone company owned phone. It took a day just to get them to schedule a service call, which ultimately proved to be bad connections in the box in the alley.
As for the VoIP service itself, I've never had VoIP out unless the ISP was down. Power was no problem as I have a UPS that'll hold the necessary equipment up for hours. My power outages have never outlasted my backup. IF my VoIP or ISP is down, my VoIP number automatically switches incoming calls to my cell phone (ATT CV Safe Forward). My land line service doesn't.
BTW I periodically test my 911 service. They have my address when I call from Land Line or VoIP and my general location from cell phone. At home, my cell will ring in to our 911 center.
I recommend periodic testing to all who may want to be sure their 911 service works. Just call your local 911 center's administrative number and ask them if you can test your phones. The folks at the 911 center here don't mind testing at all as long as people don't abuse it.
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BBR's Shooting for a Cause! | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs:
| Yeah, most businesses do pass along the "cost of doing business". However, it is normally included in the cost of the product. So you are saying that they should charge $23.95 for their phone line and then add in the electric charge, worker's salary fee, trah fee, landscape fee, etc, etc...
I think it is more of the way they are tacking on fees on top of the normal cost of the plan. So in essence, they are lying to the consumer about the true cost of their service.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| said by hescominsoon :try running your own company before spouting off like this. How stupid are you? Here are the salient points:
AT&T has a monopoly on telephone service in most areas it does business in. Historically, AT&T helped write the tariff structure for telephone service, which cost of service INCLUDES the ROW fees it pays to governmental authorities. They base their charge for basic service on the minimum requirements necessary to provide service and guarantee a return on their shareholders investments. They provide additional "extra" services, like Caller ID, Call Forwarding, etc. at package prices that return ENORMOUS profit on top of the profits they make on basic service. They should be PROHIBITED from unilaterally charging more than the tariff rates for service because all costs of service are accounted for therein, including a reasonable ROI.
There is NO WAY they can justify breaking out ROW fees as an additional line item expense to pass along to customers who are already paying for these costs in the basic fees and tariff rates for telephone services.
If you ran your own, unprotected, non-monopoly business with the same malfeasant, grifting attitude that AT&T does their well-protected featherbedding money machine, you would be out of business due to competitors taking advantage of your customers dissatisfaction at the screwing you were giving them. Of course, AT&T doesn't have to worry too much about competitive pressure, but when they do, they usually just try wringing a few more dollars out of their customers by just this type of bogus, double-dipping bullshit.
I don't give a damn if you support your telephone monopoly with unwavering, non-thinking bullheadedness, but don't pretend that AT&T has an ethical leg to stand on with these thuggish rip-offs. | |
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| | | | RogerADSL
join:2004-12-10
Lawrenceville, GA | Re: I CALL BS get a cell phone or VoIP service and let the monopoly die. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by hescominsoon :try running your own company before spouting off like this. Try not mismanaging a company before spouting off like this.
In a REAL competitive environment, moves like this by at&t would kill them. Luckily for them, it's not really a competitive environment, and they can bend people over at will. Consumers suffer. at&t needs to find ways to prop up their stock.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Mishawaka, IN
·Comcast
| First rule when attempting to understand business: all expenses get passed to the customer in one way or another, otherwise there is no profit. If your expense/customer is greater than your income/customer, you will never make a profit no matter how many additional customers you get and it may not always be possible to cut expenses in the ways necessary to make a profit.
If you don't like "stupid decisions" or "corporate mismanagement" then the way you tell a company is by not doing business with them. Also, if you're paying too much and there is a competitor that can offer the same service for less, opt for the competitor. Capitalism: try it. | |
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seven001
join:2002-07-24
Richmond, KY
clubs:
| Re: I CALL BS As if AT&T practices capitalism. More like fascism.
Telcos generally have no competition. Hard to do business with another company when there isn't another company to do business with. And before you even bother spitting out some lame answer like "use VoIP," as you obviously are a reader here you know what kinds of problems the VoIP providers are running into (with the telcos I might add). | |
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| | | | mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Mishawaka, IN
·Comcast
| Re: I CALL BS AT&T is in business to make money for their shareholders, not to altrustically give away services. It isn't in AT&T's best interest to do anything but try to make the most profit that they can - it's just business. Furthermore, no one ever guaranteed you the right to phone service at any level, much less the level that AT&T provides. If you don't like your options (i.e. VoIP, mobile, etc.) and aren't willing to drop AT&T in favor of them, then it sounds like AT&T isn't offering you too bad a deal. There are ALWAYS options, including dropping the service. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they don't exist. | |
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| | | | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
edit:
January 10th, @03:25PM
| Re: I CALL BS NO AT&T is in the business of providing service to their customers, and then the money that they make goes to the secondary shareholders. If AT&T was in the business of just making money for their shareholders, then we might as well skip the middle man and just give away our hard earned money to people who trade imaginary commodities (stocks) all day and call it a real job. This is not a jab at stockholders, but a jab at the day traders who aren't there to make investments, but are just there to parasite off of small fluctuations in the quarter to quarter market.
Oh and for the record, AT&T is only in its market position because of the government, so anyone who says that AT&T is the only one providing service because they were the only ones to step up and capitalize is completely mistaken. Cellular is a good competitor though. | |
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seven001
join:2002-07-24
Richmond, KY
clubs:
| I knew that would be the best argument you could come up with; to use some kind of competitor. What if you live in a location that doesn't get cell phone reception? That's not all that uncommon in this state. Places with landline service but no cell reception and no cable. So no, there are NOT 'always' other options. Your argument is weak, just like your mind, you corporate pawn.
And for the record, I use a T-Mobile cell phone, not a landline. I'd sooner burn my money than give it to AT&T. | |
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bobjohnson
join:2007-02-03
Titusville, FL
edit:
January 10th, @03:17PM
| wrong post  | |
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| | | | mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Mishawaka, IN
·Comcast
| Re: I CALL BS See my above reply to seven00.
"Some way to run a business."
They're making money, and that's the goal. You could always get in on the action by buying some stock. One thing that isn't going to help you or hurt them: your bitching about it, because you're still paying the bill. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: I CALL BS No company altruistically gives away services. The problem is, we already pay for the service. It's these fees that we don't like that should not exist. Either the price of the service goes up, or it doesn't but the below-the-line items should absolutely be outlawed, and advertising should reflect the total price, not just the "base service" price you can't even actually only pay for.
It's akin to advertising prices without tax/shipping (what makes informercial products apparently so tempting to so many: it's only a $10 product! followed by a very small statement under their breath: plus $15 shipping and handling, which we won't refund you if you don't like the $10 product you bought).
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"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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| | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| When you are a (near) monopoly as AT&T you can do what you want. They have no real competition to keep them honest. Fact is, AT&T could never survive in a truly competitive market.
Because of their abuse of the system it's time that the telco's were nationalized. Even the government could run them better than they are being run... and I hate government intervention in business. But then telco's are not really a business but a sanctioned entity that needs the FCC to cover their backs or they would go under. | |
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fiber_man
Things Happen For A Reason
Premium
join:2001-01-27
Port Saint Lucie, FL
| Re: remember before 1984 At one time not long ago AT&T was regulated heavily by the government and was required to provide service to everyone. Then that same government cost the taxpayers over one TRILLION DOLLARS to break up that arrangement with the phone company. So now here we are asking that same government to get involved again after 20+ years. What did the government and taxpayers gain in those 20+ years of unregulated services? LESS customer services, not to many options as for different providers and many years behind deployment of facilities.
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GO NOLES!! | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: remember before 1984 said by fiber_man :At one time not long ago AT&T was regulated heavily by the government and was required to provide service to everyone. Then that same government cost the taxpayers over one TRILLION DOLLARS to break up that arrangement with the phone company. So now here we are asking that same government to get involved again after 20+ years. What did the government and taxpayers gain in those 20+ years of unregulated services? LESS customer services, not to many options as for different providers and many years behind deployment of facilities. I disagree. We had a myriad of choices, especially after the Telecom Act of 1996. The Baby Bells just thought the long distance cash cow would offset any land line losses. Oops. No true innovation happened until Cable jumped into the Internet game and the CLECs started offering service over Bell's own lines that the Bells said was "unpossible!". If it were up to AT&T, we'd still be poking along on $50/month POTS lines using dial-up modems while they charge businesses $3,000/month for a T-Carrier, not include the internet charge.
AT&T has been ripping people off for decades. Charging long distance rates to call a city that is located IN THE SAME COUNTY I live and is also served by AT&T.
I have no problem with a company making money, but when they do it on the backs of the monopoly they've been granted and by purposefully trying to make it difficult for their own customers to understand their bill .... that's just wrong. | |
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| | emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX
edit:
January 10th, @12:30PM
| ALL of my expenses are passed on to my customers through my pricing. When I price a job, its going to pay for everything that is required to complete that job, plus my profit. All of that is included in the price I set. There is no business, anywhere, that does not pass the cost of its expenses through to its customers.
The difference in the case of these "fees" is that the companies are cynically itemizing them instead of simply raising the price of phone service itself.
wig | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: I CALL BS Yeah but when you (company, not you individual) made a mistake in the course of providing a service for the customer, did you have to absorb the cost of correcting the mistake (from your profit margin) or do you pass that on to the customer (to protect your profit margin), which then has to pay twice (or basically fund your incompetence, or your employee "training")?
That's the difference. You run a tight ship, make sure your employees are competent and well trained, and they therefore make few mistakes. Any employees that do are re-trained, disciplined (at your cost), etc so that they don't require you to have to set mistakes right, which takes more time and money than doing it right the first time.
These companies hire incompetent dolts, make mistakes left and right, have no idea what policy is, are poorly trained, etc. The company decides to line item fee you to death because they can't be bothered to hire competent employees or train them to be competent and therefore the customer suffers TWICE (or more) to get a service done right. They lose time to allow the company to come back and get the job done again, have to take time off to troubleshoot, etc. That loses the customer money because they can't do their job, and then the other company is "cost recovering through fees" the customer pays for.
I agree that a customer should pay for a competent company's cost of providing services, but not because the company can't be bothered to provide good service because the customer has no other choice as a form of punishment for being incompetent.
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"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| said by emptywig :ALL of my expenses are passed on to my customers through my pricing. When I price a job, its going to pay for everything that is required to complete that job, plus my profit. All of that is included in the price I set. There is no business, anywhere, that does not pass the cost of its expenses through to its customers. The difference in the case of these "fees" is that the companies are cynically itemizing them instead of simply raising the price of phone service itself. wig More like you setting a price including the entirety of costs, and a reasonable profit, as you have said you do, agreeing to a contract to provide the service at that price, then foisting a boat-load of change-orders for spurious fees upon your customer to account for the necessity of obeying management/shareholder demands for increased revenue you may be otherwise prohibited from reaping under the contract rate structure you yourself have set. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| most industries will include the costs of operation in the final price and not added fees. you dont have an electric bill fee at the gas station to pay for pumping the gas, its part of the price per gallon and the price of the stuff in the little store part of the station.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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serge666
join:2004-06-07
Little Falls, NJ
edit:
January 10th, @10:26AM
| wiretapping fee hey wiretapping isn't free and like they said, they've been doing it for decades >_> | |
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| amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: wiretapping fee hahaha, good one. one of the few here who thought of that 
that'd be my bet as well... I can see the meeting right now...
"hey, how are we going to pay for all those new black boxes that were already mostly paid for by the gov't??? ...I know! We'll tack on another fee and make even more money!" /partial sarcasm... | |
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DivineDark
join:2001-08-30
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
| News! An at&t spokes person also said in a statement later that day, "We will soon be adding the executive overcompensation fee to your bill." The spokesperson went on to say "We have been footing the bill for this for 100 years but not passed this charge onto the consumer until now. Just look at the savings the consumer has received over the years of not having that fee. This new fee is to help at&t remain competitive in the heavily regulated industry and keep costs to the consumer low" | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia | Re: News! They probably have a meeting once in a while to make up new fee names. At happy hour. With lots of laughter. | |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA | Re: News! Or, another way to keep thier bottom line raised at the expense of the US consumer.
Weakening the country makes us ripe for the corporate pickings.
Cost of doing business + profit = domination. | |
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| bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | They will also be adding the cost of lobbying Washington to your bill. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Opportunity Here...
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA | Re: Opportunity Here... Nice! | |
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verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eatontown, NJ | you will be paying for FCC bandwidth license as well as RAN...
but more to the point, you will also be seeing morning coffee fee and private jet fee added as soon as someone calculates how much it costs the company to provide it. | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Hollywood, FL
clubs:
| Re: Opportunity Here... said by verolom :you will be paying for FCC bandwidth license as well as RAN... but more to the point, you will also be seeing morning coffee fee and private jet fee added as soon as someone calculates how much it costs the company to provide it. Nah, they will just make up a number and start charging. Wait, change that. They will sit down and calculate those fees so they can add an additional fee for the calculation of fees.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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| bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | Funny.
But I can almost envision it. | |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
·Vonage
| Didn't we just see . . . an article on here the other day where, "AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson today stated the company is seeing a slowdown in the consumer landline and broadband business."
Well, it's no wonder people are NOT ordering new services & canceling existing services with AT&T. People are only going to take so much bullshit before they leave for greener pastures.
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Ö¿Ö
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's Newest Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket? | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | creative excuse "we've been paying it for years but others pass it on"
nice attempt to make it seem like THEY are doing US a favor. | |
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Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | Re: creative excuse Atleast people were giving a reason. Would you rather an unexplained rate increase?
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kustomerservice.net | |
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| | AtlGuy
join:2000-10-17
Marietta, GA | I'd rather it not be in the form of a fee at all, with the fee(s) included into the base price. That way, the consumer would know what the real cost is when signing up. I know that's a dream that I will never see come to fruition though. | |
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nonnonynon
@sbc.com | If this was done with a rate increase and not itemized there would be just as much if not more bitching and wailing and gnashing of teeth. | |
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AT&T Adds 'Line Inspection Fee' To Landline Bills
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