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AT&T & Apple's 'Loveless Marriage'
At least they have their billions to fall asleep cuddling
by Karl Bode Tuesday 20-Jul-2010 tags: business · wireless · hardware
Tipped by Gbcue See Profile
Though it doesn't cover on any new history we haven't addressed here ad nauseam, Wired had a very interesting read about AT&T and Apple's relationship and how it has devolved over the last few years. From AT&T's initial problems with handling iPhone traffic to their effort to tackle the problem using Seth Bloom "the blogger guy" from PR firm Fleishman-Hillard (covered here) -- AT&T's had a busy few years from the network and public relations perspective. At this point, according to Wired, Apple and AT&T's relationship has degraded into a "loveless marriage":

The two corporations have argued about almost everything. Jobs has been apoplectic about the state of AT&T's network and what he views as its slow-footed upgrade efforts almost since launch day three years ago. One Apple source says that Jobs has discussed dropping AT&T at least half a dozen times. AT&T executives aren't so crazy about Jobs, either. They complain that Apple hasn't accepted its fair share of the blame. They say - and Apple sources confirm - that the software running the iPhone's main radio, known as the baseband, was full of bugs and contributed to the much-decried dropped calls.

Of course the Wired article almost makes you feel bad for both companies -- and it shouldn't. Millions of iPhones have been sold, and AT&T's network has seen a 40% jump in subscribers -- with the lowest subscriber churn in the industry thanks largely to the iPhone (though ETFs and long-term contracts help that too). If Apple and AT&T's marriage gets too stressful, they can always comfort themselves sipping mojitos and lounging about on massive sacks of money.

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ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
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Jobs sitting on money before losing weight

If Apple and AT&T's marriage gets too stressful, they can always comfort themselves sipping mojitos and lounging about on massive sacks of money

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pandora
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Re: Jobs sitting on money before losing weight

While Apple and AT&T make tons of cash, even with stress between them, it's hard to imagine either giving up a golden goose.

Does Verizon (or even Sprint) need Apple with the success of the Android?
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
acoustix

join:2004-01-30
Fort Dodge, IA

Apple's fault

Apple is at fault for pretty much everything at this point. Granted, they didn't know that AT&T's network was going to suck this bad. However, they never should have renewed the exclusivity contract with AT&T. Apple deserves every bit of negative press with their piss-poor decision of staying with AT&T. I'm not saying that Verizon is the holy grail, but their network is far better (in terms of coverage and uniform performance) than AT&T.

Apple could have a much larger share of the smartphone market if they wouldn't have tied the phone to AT&T's network. I know many people who want an iPhone (I don't) but they don't want to deal with AT&T's crappy network.
calibax

join:2000-12-08
Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Apple's fault

You say Apple is at fault for "everything", although I'm not certain what you mean by that.

Two points come to mind:

You say that Apple should not have renewed their exclusive contract with ATT. I don't know the period specified in the Apple-ATT exclusive contract. I've seen several journalists say it's was originally 5 years. I've also heard there was a renegotiation, but I've not seen any report that the contract length was reduced. If 5 years is the correct length of time, then the original contract made before Apple released their first iPhone is still running.

As I recall, Verizon was Apple's first choice as a partner but Verizon turned them down. Remember, this was when Apple had not made any cell phones, and the company was an unknown quantity in the wireless phone business.

I feel sure that when the contract with ATT expires, Apple will explore all their available options. I don't know when that will happen, and I don't think you do either. Clearly, Apple would sell more phones if they were partnered with multiple cell networks, as they have done in other countries.

So what, exactly, is the "everything" that is Apple's fault and why could "everything" have been fixed by partnering with Verizon instead of ATT?

Vamp9190
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Just IMPROVE the service, stop yammering

We have an AT&T Family Plan. I have a Blackberry (Bold), and we just upgraded my wife to a iPhone 3GS (she had a BB Curve). We are not heavy data users, but the service *seems* ok, no worse than other carriers I have used in the past.

I just wish they would stop screwing around blaming each other and FIX the network, and FIX the iPhone too.

Honestly it's insane (not in a good way either) that two multi-billion dollar companies are crying like kids trying to gain sympathy, while charging customers a lot of money each month, and making huge profits.

Bellhead

@sprintlink.net

Re: Just IMPROVE the service, stop yammering

Companies are not crying like babies, the customers and the media are.

Z80A
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Great for me, sucks to be them

While many area have AT&T service that makes you want to slit your wrists, it's great where I am. 3000/1500 3G, no dropped calls and unlike VZW I have no endless billing errors.

But you throw 15M data consuming users (15X more than other smartphone users) on any network and who knows what would happen. There is nothing to say VZW would have handled it any better.
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amarryat
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Re: Great for me, sucks to be them

said by Z80A:

But you throw 15M data consuming users (15X more than other smartphone users) on any network and who knows what would happen. There is nothing to say VZW would have handled it any better.
But Verizon's (and Sprint's) network carried more data than AT&T last year. And Verizon didn't have any problems with that did it?

Z80A
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Re: Great for me, sucks to be them

Put 15 million more that use 15X the data usage of the average smartphone customer (according to the article) and who knows if they could have handled it.

Looks to me it was the sudden growth that put the hurt on AT&T and I think that kind of huge growth would have put the hurt on any US carrier.
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"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008.

amarryat
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Re: Great for me, sucks to be them

said by Z80A:

Put 15 million more that use 15X the data usage of the average smartphone customer (according to the article) and who knows if they could have handled it.

Looks to me it was the sudden growth that put the hurt on AT&T and I think that kind of huge growth would have put the hurt on any US carrier.
Bottom line is that AT&T was not equipped to handle it. And even after the addition of the 15 million more customers that use 15X the data, AT&T still wasn't moving as much data as even Sprint. And no one is complaining about data on Sprint.

Z80A
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2 edits

Re: Great for me, sucks to be them

Put 15M users using 15X the average and you would see complaints on Sprint or any other carrier. Given Sprint is losing nearly a billion dollars per quarter they would have no money to fix it resulting in even more customer losses than they are already experiencing.

amarryat
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Re: Great for me, sucks to be them

said by Z80A:

Put 15M users using 15X the average and you would see complaints on Sprint or any other carrier. Given Sprint is losing nearly a billion dollars per quarter they would have no money to fix it resulting in even more customer losses than they are already experiencing.
Are you not understanding? Verizon and Sprint already have the heavy data users, more than AT&T. And both Verizon and Sprint handled the data without as many problems as AT&T.

If you were to suddenly add 15M heavy data users to Verizon or Sprint, that would not be a fair comparison since they are both moving more data than AT&T before adding them. AT&T must not have been moving squat prior to the iPhone which further shows how woefully bad their preparation was.

Z80A
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Re: Great for me, sucks to be them

That is what I'm saying. I think if VZW was the company who got the iPhone, they would be having network problems like AT&T did because it represented rapid growth.

And according to the news item, iPhone users use 15X the data that average smartphone users use so 15M new iPhone users would be the equivalent of FAR more than 15M other smartphone users. If the article is correct in user data consumption, those 15M iPhone users would consumer the same data as 225M typical smartphone users which is more than double the total number of current VZW subscribers.

It isn't about being fair. It's about whether ANY network could have handled 15M iPhone users without trouble and I am saying NO US carrier could have handled 15M iPhone users in such a short time without problems. It is simply too much growth too fast.
--
"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008.

N3OGH
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But how do they sleep at night?


Rainer Wolfcastle
And just HOW do you sleep at night?

Ohn taahp oof ahh pile of mohney whith mahny bootiful laie-dees

Just askin', Yeesh!
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obeythelaw
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Yea...

The whole thing of "why doesn't Apple just move to Verizon or T-Mobile, etc." doesn't hold much weight when you have to wonder if Verizon's network would be able to handle it. Even more so now with all of their Android devices, if they got the iPhone too, I think there network would come to a halt. And if it didn't, then I think AT&T should get out of the wireless business!!

John McClane
yippee ki yay
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Re: Yea...

does iphone use more data than android?

djrobx

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Re: Yea...

said by John McClane:

does iphone use more data than android?
Doesn't really matter - Android's acceptance into the mainstream has come years later than iPhone. That's given Verizon much more time to prepare their network for the increased usage.

AT&T's 3G network also came into play about a year LATER than Verizon and Sprint. It got hammered with iPhone usage when it was relatively new, which didn't help matters at all. There were definitely bugs in their 3G network (especially with regards to hand-offs) when the first iPhone 3G came out.

All that said, I think AT&T has bigger problems with tower deployment than its 3G service. When I have a good signal the 3G service usually works pretty well. It's getting signal that's been a bigger problem for us (on any AT&T 3G phone).
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Gbcue
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Re: Yea...

said by djrobx:

said by John McClane:

does iphone use more data than android?
Doesn't really matter - Android's acceptance into the mainstream has come years later than iPhone. That's given Verizon much more time to prepare their network for the increased usage.

AT&T's 3G network also came into play about a year LATER than Verizon and Sprint. It got hammered with iPhone usage when it was relatively new, which didn't help matters at all. There were definitely bugs in their 3G network (especially with regards to hand-offs) when the first iPhone 3G came out.

All that said, I think AT&T has bigger problems with tower deployment than its 3G service. When I have a good signal the 3G service usually works pretty well. It's getting signal that's been a bigger problem for us (on any AT&T 3G phone).
If time is the "issue", what's the excuse now?

Verizon and AT&T have the same time to 'catch up' to each other. Verizon is handling Android phones much better than AT&T is handling iPhones *today*.
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mekaleka

join:2003-01-15
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How much is Verizon paying Karl Bode?

Not enough.

DaveDude
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Re: How much is Verizon paying Karl Bode?

But you have to admit, that was one of best titles of the year.

Mike
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I get 20% so I want bigger kicks

Streetlight

join:2005-11-07
Colorado Springs, CO

How do other phones work w/ AT&T in NYC & San Fran?

One thing I haven't heard an answer to is: How do other smart phones such as Black Berry, Android, etc., work using AT&T's network in the notoriously bad AT&T cities such as New York City and San Francisco? Is access unreliable, are calls frequently dropped and is data slow or unavailable?

CaptainRR
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Re: How do other phones work w/ AT&T in NYC & San Fran?

I travel everywhere on the railroad using Verizon and a Motorola Droid. To tell the truth in most big cities the Verizon network isn't the greatest. As far as reliability it is one of the best in my travels 3g everywhere. Most cities I don't get much better than 500k during the day. Yes with all the smartphones out there it shows slowdowns even on big red.

RiseAbove
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Re: How do other phones work w/ AT&T in NYC & San Fran?

said by CaptainRR:

I travel everywhere on the railroad using Verizon and a Motorola Droid. To tell the truth in most big cities the Verizon network isn't the greatest. As far as reliability it is one of the best in my travels 3g everywhere. Most cities I don't get much better than 500k during the day. Yes with all the smartphones out there it shows slowdowns even on big red.
Honestly Big Red's data speed isn't the greatest to begin with. The CDMA EVDO pipe they are using is pretty much capped around 1.2-1.4. I've been issuing Verizon phones to my 500+ corporate users for years and no one through tethering or even on the device really ever gets over 1mb even in perfect circumstances and this was before all the smartphones came on board. the EVDO pipe is just not as good as the UMTS/HSDPA that ATT and Tmobile are throwing out currently.

CaptainRR
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Re: How do other phones work w/ AT&T in NYC & San Fran?

I really posted this fact to point out were big red stands in really populated area's. I have been in rural places on the network were I have been close to 2mg down with pings unter 100ms and they are very rare now. Actually in my home town of Zanesville, OH were Verizon is PCS only the speeds are excellent! I just hope the LTE speeds are better when they finally come around.

netius

@verizon.net

AT&T and Apple - Love and Marrige

Does is surprise you that these companies battle it out and pointing fingers at each other? This is happening with Apple and Adobe to - who is the bigger company that going to step up and fix the problem? There are many issues on all sides as Apple wants to much just because they are Apple.

No network really needs the iPhone for just open it up to all networks and then the problem will be solved as it releive stress on any one network. Apple may have made a bad decision to go exclusive to AT&T cause look what Android is doing to the market now - if Apple didn't it would be up there to rival Blackberry. It comes all down to money no one was going to give up any percentage of Service Fees beside AT&T so they all got what they deserved. If AT&T didn't give up service fees maybe their network would have been better.
txfeinbergs

join:2009-03-10
Allen, TX

Ad Nauseam

"Though it doesn't cover on any new history we haven't addressed here ad nauseam,"

So lets create yet another redundant newspost about it! This site is getting rather repetitive lately.

Totti

@qwest.net

let them get divorce

Lucky baby iphone will have more than one Dad.
Verizon
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ME
You
..........................
pkorx8

join:2003-06-19
San Francisco, CA
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ATT was only logical choice for GSM carrier

When Apple launched the iphone, they probably wanted to stick with a GSM carrier for the international market. After all, there is a world market outside the US.

The only GSM choices are ATT or Tmobile, and at that time Tmobile was not in good shape.


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