 
Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs: | good nothing new every one is doing it anyways
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Global warming did not eat my homework. | |
|  | ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
| Re: good said by Anonymous_  :nothing new every one is doing it anyways I'm not sure what you mean by that statement, this is very new, and is very good news. For anyone with an ounce of brain matter to understand the threat to the IT industry and to the United States in general by outsourcing of tech-related jobs, this is very good news. | |
| | | whocares
Premium
join:2003-07-26
..
1 edit | Re: Saving Face AT&T Bringing Outsourced Jobs Back
Don't think its just the exect's doing a CYA,
but with the "overseas" tech help there are many problems, and i am sure SBC/ATT has been getting a lot of complaints
1 Problem with trying to be understood & understanding what the phone help is reading from a book,
2.Problemmany of the overseas help, have very little no working knowledage of a computer or programs.
3.PROBLEMWhen the phone help dosen't know what to do,or the computer problem still exist,the phone help is going to start instructing you (and expecting you) to start doing things to/with your computer, that HAVE NOTHING AT ALL to do with the orignal problem
4.Problem Finally WHEN the phone help turns over the problem to a 2nd level tech, the orignal problem is so messed up (along with other problems,following the phone help instructions)that the 2nd level support has to start all over again & have you correct all the problems that the phone help cased, befor being able to fix the orignal problem....
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I've learned....
That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: Saving Face Regarding creating new problems and 2nd level fixes:
I had exactly that experience. A friend of mine called me. She had spent 90 minutes on the phone with AT&T tech support(in that "I" word country). She was losing her connection regularly and, of course, the problem was in her computer. The TSR had her create 3(count 'em, 3) network connections. None worked.
I had all of those connections out of there, a new one created and the connection working in 15 minutes.
Country of origin be damned, the most clueless tech support people on the face of the planet. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| I totally agree with what you're saying.
Trouble is, the way most accountants look at this issue is that you could have the worst support possible, but as long as it doesn't impact your bottom line, then it is OK.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Saving Face said by pnh102 :I totally agree with what you're saying. Trouble is, the way most accountants look at this issue is that you could have the worst support possible, but as long as it doesn't impact your bottom line, then it is OK. But the accountants don't realize penny short, pound foolish. I ended alot of business because really bad "outsourced" service. So they may be saving on CS, but losing customers in the process.
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Go courageously to do whatever you are called to do. fear nothing. - St. Francis de Sales
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| | | | | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Saving Face said by DaveNJ :said by pnh102 :I totally agree with what you're saying. Trouble is, the way most accountants look at this issue is that you could have the worst support possible, but as long as it doesn't impact your bottom line, then it is OK. But the accountants don't realize penny short, pound foolish. I ended alot of business because really bad "outsourced" service. So they may be saving on CS, but losing customers in the process. Problem is, in some areas they're the only choice other than dialup. In most areas, the only other choice would be one cable provider. Even if there's a CLEC providing DSL, it's going to be over AT&T's lines. We need telephone overbuilders (like WOW did with cable) to get any real competition. | |
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rirwin
Premium
join:2005-11-29
Columbus, OH
| Re: Saving Face u do realise was at&t's first cable attempt in columbs, back when they was called ameritech, and it was called americast. the reason it was "overbuild" was bc they wanted it to be available everywhere their pohone service was in columbus. when sbc bought ameritech, they sold it off to wideopenwest. now shortened to wow! | |
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oh yeah
@cox.net | Re: Saving Face all true..but at least I'll be able to communicate with the level 1 tech. As it is right now, I can't understand them, and they can't understand me. | |
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MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| outsourcing is the worst! I hate having to talk to any customer service that I can't understand. Oursourcing sucks and I will be happy when it finally goes away.
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One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie | |
| | | | amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs: | Re: outsourcing is the worst! Actually, when it comes back it'll probably still be "outsourced" (it was before...) but at least it'll be in country help... | |
|
formertech
@qwest.net
| As someone who was laid off by AT&T... ... I find it kind of annoying that someone's job is taken away and sent to another country, only to have it returned a few years later. Here's why:
- first, you lose your job because some exec finds out he can save money if he has some indian kid do your job at well below what he pays you,
- second, when you find out your job is coming back it's no guarantee that you're coming back. most employees have call back rights, usually withing 3 years of separation, and if it's been longer than that you go back to the normal applicant pool.
I know quite a few of my fellow employees who were laid off from jobs paying in the 50-60k range who are nowhere near that level of income now. Imagine having to sell your house because you lost your job and can no longer afford the mortgage only to find out that your former position is now available again.
There's a reason their logo is the Deathstar. | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: As someone who was laid off by AT&T... Which I have lived through 2 times now. And at the end of this week it will be the 3rd time.
You can't blame them for it. You have to pick yourself up and do what it takes to get back in the game.
I personally am looking forward to it. a change of space is good at times.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| 
shamrin
join:2001-01-08
Lexington, KY
clubs:
·Insight Communicat..
| Indian Support Well, I know that this isn't going to make me Mr. Popular here but as someone who works in an Indian call centre I would say that some of the complaints above are misplaced. We don't handle AT&T where I work but we do do broadband support. For outsourced tech support, all the training (including accent training), all the solutions, all the quality processes, all the specifications like numbers of staff on hand, escalation procedures, etc. would all be specified by AT&T, not by the call center they outsourced to. This means that customers have (most likely) getting exactly the level and quality of tech support that AT&T specified and was willing to pay for.
Now I've had my share of problems too with call centers, India and otherwise but quite often you find that this happens when the company that is outsourcing is focussing mainly on cost. If that happens, it's the same as anything else, quality suffers. Historically India and the Philippines (and now Latin American and soon China) have attracted their share of cost-focussed programs, ergo the (only somewhat IMO) earned reputation.
As far as staffing goes, I don't know what AT&T were doing, but we're staffing college graduates with IT and CS degrees, many with Microsoft and Cisco certifications. I guess the point I'm making is that off-shore tech support doesn't have to be rubbish.
With respect to moving jobs back to America, that's fair enough, I don't think there is anything wrong with paying a little more or directing your purchases toward companies that employ local labour. I buy milk from the local dairy cooperative here rather than paying Nestle who I don't think really need the money as much. But generally you can't have it both ways, cheaper prices and higher quality support (regardless of what part of the earth it comes from).
/sch
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I have no opinion, therefore I do not exist | |
| | satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY
| Re: Indian Support With all due respect to India, their citizens, and you...and no offense, but if American companies, who do business in America, charging American dollars, paying American taxes(hopefully), and owning American infrastructure, they should employ Americans.
This bit about outsourcing everything under the sun to save a buck is just bad juju for our country. | |
| | Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
| I second what shamrin said. India has been English-speaking (that's the Queen's English, not some redneck dialect) for nearly as long as the US has been a country. Chances are that the person in the Indian call center speaks better English than you do. Most Indian call center operators go through extensive training, so that only the best ear can detect a trace of dialect in their speech. India is also home to tech. universities that are in the same league as America's top tech. schools, like MIT, CalTech, IIT etc. Chances are that the person in the Indian call center has had a better education than you've had. I dare anyone to find a call center in the US that will give you access to a real engineer, even if you ask!
The average US call center employee doesn't hold any kind of college degree, much less one of science. Most are the product of the US public school system, which has the distinction of producing high school graduates who can't find their own state on a US map, and lack the language skills to be considered literate in many other countries.
My last call to a US call center was a answered by a person with a heavy southern drawl that I wouldn't have understood had it not been for the fact that all of my family is from the south. My call was protracted as the operator struggled with the computer. And although I had pressed a button ("press 2 for...") in the call director that was for a single request, the operator repeatedly asked me what it was that I wanted to do. That's pretty much the norm.
My last call to an Indian call center was highly technical in nature, but was completed in a fraction of the time it took for the aforementioned US call. The operator understood my engineering jargon, and never asked for me to repeat what I had just said. I honestly wouldn't have known where on earth the call center was if I hadn't asked.
I understand why protectionism does little good in today's business climate. OTOH I see that the US produces virtually no goods and services (excepting inherently local products like milk) that are profitable, and aren't connected to a DOD contract. If Americans want to continue to enjoy their current standard of living, it's going to take a profitable domestic product that someone outside of the US is willing to pay for. Idly bashing the international competition that's eating our lunch is tantamount to fiddling while Rome burns. | |
| | | satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY
| Re: Indian Support quote:
Chances are that the person in the Indian call center speaks better English than you do. Most Indian call center operators go through extensive training, so that only the best ear can detect a trace of dialect in their speech
Maybe in your experience, but not many others experience. Plus, this isn't a grammar competition-I could care less if a call center operator conjugates a verb correctly, I want to be able to understand what they are saying, completely and on the first try.
quote:
I see that the US produces virtually no goods and services (excepting inherently local products like milk) that are profitable
I don't buy this at all; there's an industrial park right down the street from my office and they're producing goods and services that are profitable enough to support the municipal government, themselves, and the county at large through jobs and taxation. You're painting the whole country with an awfully wide brush.
quote:
If Americans want to continue to enjoy their current standard of living, it's going to take a profitable domestic product that someone outside of the US is willing to pay for
I don't buy this either-it's only been we as a country decided cheap widgets made in China from WalMart were the most important (and visible) products on the market that this mindset has sprung up. There aren't giant steel mills employing 100k workers anymore, but the shift towards a service based economy has employment high, stocks even higher, and raised boats all around (with notable exceptions in urban centers and the rural poor). We're just so busy being ensconced in the affairs of (cough) certain Middle Eastern countries that we've forgotten what we're supposed to be about: one big giant circular money pool.
History proves that bashing the international competition has and will happen-just wait until the backlash against illegal immigrants occurs. (if it isn't already).
I stand by my original point; American companies, who do business in America, charging American dollars, paying American taxes(hopefully), and owning American infrastructure, they should employ Americans. | |
| 
major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
1 edit | Shareholders Need Outsourcing Personally, I'm in favor of outsourcing the help. AT&T can start with the entire executive board and their minions of middle mgt asshats. The company needs a Hindi CEO who will work for $250k/yr instead of the current Whitacre who comes in at $2.2M.
Further, I firmly believe all shareholders of every American corporation ought to implement CEO/executive board outsourcing immediately. Why continue to pay these lavish salaries when better, more educated help can be found in Bangladesh working for a fraction of the American CEO annual salary plus 24k gold-plated perks.
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The Toll
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| | sgthomas
join:2003-02-27
Santa Monica, CA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Shareholders Need Outsourcing Very well said!!! Maybe we could start a trend. Let's start with Chief of Staff.
Maybe then our country can begin to return to it's honorable roots.
(although I disagree with this statement:"...when better, more educated help can be found in Bangladesh working for a fraction of the American CEO annual salary..."
Since 1993 I can remember only two (2) 'outsourced' tech people that I've dealt with who had any knowledge of what they were talking about. (they are quite capable of reading from a scripted screen though)
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To be of words & not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds... | |
| | |
mar10
@veritas.com
| Re: Shareholders Need Outsourcing Hi. I'm a stupid liberal from Santa Monica. "Let's outsource the chief of staff". Oh wait, we're already trying by looking to model the US after failing European countries policy and cutting down our military. If you play politics with the war it's the troops that suffer regardless if you've got a "support our troops" bumper sticker (which I'd doubt anyway but...).
Anyway, I'm an IT guy and if they wanna outsource the less desirable overseas to spend money in other areas I say great. If the support sucks it'll come back here. If it works, they'll spend more $$ here on the upper tiers of support. If you can't cut it, move to an area with higher demands or better educate yourself. Just because you live in the US doesn't an employer should have to hire you. That said though, if we are sending US based company support to another country, obviously we need to make sure we tax these companies accordingly and give incentives to keep work here. The unemployment rates are about as low as they've ever been and if you think you should be entitled to a job that's almost impossible to get fired from, go work for the state or federal government where the other people that can't cut it in the competitive free world go. (I know there are some good guys there but having worked for both the state and fed govt when I was younger there was plenty of dead weight we couldn't fire cause they were a certain sex, race, status, or had the right friends running the show.) It's no different now. | |
| 
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | it's still not enough seriously. | |
| 
winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| Proactive or Reactive? I used to work tier 2 at AT&T Worldnet. After a while they started asking us to monitor the Tier 1 DSL calls.
Oh
My
God
Those poor people. They suffered so much. The techs were almost all completely clueless. When someone got through to one of the competent techs, I almost jumped out of my chair with joy.
Maybe it's gotten better since then, but I can guarantee they lost a LOT of customers over it. About 15% of the calls I monitored ended in a transfer to customer service for cancellation (where they find out about the early termination fees).
I embrace accents, as they offer cultural diversity, but a heavy accent on a tech support call is really not the place for it. 5% of that 15% of cancellations was due to miscommunication.
Also, funny enough, I got a call to work back at AT&T Worldnet Tier 2 again. Too little too late. | |
|
Disgruntled
@Level3.net
| Tech support As someone who has worked in an inbound technical call center for AT&T, I can tell you first hand it doesn't matter where or what country the call center is located. Your tech support is still most likely going to suck.
That is because all they give a damn about is metrics, which has to do with the number of calls a rep handles, the amount of time that is spent on a particular call, and whether or not the customer has to call back. And any rep who actually attempts to give decent customer service will quickly find that he/she has difficulty staying within those metrics.
Besides, the first thing that all the techs in these kind of places are taught is how to pass the buck, so that their call will stay within the metrics. For example call up with a Dell laptop that is having a problem connecting with a wireless connection, and you stand a very good chance of getting referred to either what AT&T calls Support + (prices starting at about $70) or getting referred to Dell.
When companies like AT&T prove that they actually give a damn about the customer, by throwing metrics out the window and the staff stops breathing down the neck of the tech support personnel the second a call takes more than 12 minutes then, and only then, will I believe that a company has truly started putting the customer as their number one priority. Until then it is not truly about customer service , but more about the illusion of customer service. | |
| | tpac_man
join:2007-02-27
Riverbank, CA | Re: Tech support You must have worked at SBC DSL tier 2 support in San Ramon? | |
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AT&T Bringing Outsourced Jobs Back
Saving Face