  powerhogStinkin' up the jointPremium
join:2000-12-14
Owasso, OK | money I think it has less to do with being able to find intelligent Americans and more to do with finding intelligent Americans who are willing to work for $1/day. | |
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 | | | Re: money said by powerhog:I think it has less to do with being able to find intelligent Americans and more to do with finding intelligent Americans who are willing to work for $1/day. This is the correct answer. 
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"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." | |
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| |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: money I wonder if they plan to use some of the new presidents money that is earmarked as a tax deduction for 'new jobs' to do this.
I could see many companies (already) doing layoffs so that they can get tax deductions to hire them back.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: money said by en102:I wonder if they plan to use some of the new presidents money that is earmarked as a tax deduction for 'new jobs' to do this. I could see many companies (already) doing layoffs so that they can get tax deductions to hire them back. So could I, however, that died a long time ago and was scrapped.
To be honest, I think they are moving jobs back due to the weakening dollar. Its becoming more expensive to buy outside this country than it is to use that $1 bill that's worth about $0.50 cents here. | |
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| | | |  Old_GrouchDon't just sit there silly DO somethingPremium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: money They are moving jobs back because public irritation with the "quality" of support they got from off-shore agents and a union demand to bring the work back during the last contract negotiation provided them a two-fer.
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At Team Discovery we know how to get more outta that danged 'puter of yours! | |
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| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: money Do you really think that public irritation had ANYTHING to do with this...? ...at all? | |
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| |  Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
 ·Embarq Now Centu..
| said by burgermeister:said by powerhog:I think it has less to do with being able to find intelligent Americans and more to do with finding intelligent Americans who are willing to work for $1/day. This is the correct answer. This particular economic situation is serendipity for business due to middle class economic correction. I replied to another poster blaming teachers for the problem, and it reminded me of a phone call with a CC company phone rep not long ago trying to sell me services when I called to activate a new CC. This person was a teacher who could not find work in Missouri due to downsizing and consolidating school districts. She has a graduate degree in education, but was a new hire and therefore one of the first to go.
Long to short, she was glad to have a job; so many of her friends were not so fortunate. Grad students handling phones for $8 to $10 - the American dream, no?
I'd advise people to become at least acquainted with economic shock and flattening the middle class standard of living around the globe. Conspiracy theory? Perhaps. But I don't believe every unfortunate incident is an accident, either. Naomi Klein's book, "The Shock Doctrine," would be a very good start.
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| | | Too bad that $1/day gets them a bunch of crap. There's something to be said for buying the right tool for the job, and buying a bunch of $1/day tools out of India isn't doing a very good job. I would rather speak to a barely literate American to help me with my support problems than a completely unintelligible Indian half a world away. | |
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| | | Then after getting the mexicans they will claim later they are IN AMERICA..... | |
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|  borvOnemhz On Aim
join:2000-10-06
Astoria, NY | ha! if it werent for those scumbags outsourcing jobs, many indians would have not even HEARD of a telephone. | |
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 DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Blame the system... ...that defends teacher interests before student interests. | |
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| | | Re: Blame the system... Wrong answer. The real problem is that few people with enough education to handle tech support are willing to work for $8.00/hr.
If AT&T wants quality employees, they have to be willing to pay for them. | |
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| | | | Re: Blame the system... The answer lies in-between. The educational system needs to be overhauled to allow for more real world OS and Application training, and keep up with what Corporate America is looking for like familiarity with basic windows/msoffice/outlook, basic troubleshooting skills, basic network and pc skills. At the same time, AT&T needs to understand, that helpdesk technicians need more support like empowering them with ability to tap accounting/provision while the customer is on the line, so whatever issue he has (billing/technical) it can be solved right away. Also allow the tech to do this unscripted and without pressure of meeting some person's metrics. Quality support should not have useless metrics (time spent on call/etc) other than satisfaction survey given to customers at the end of the support call. | |
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| | | Reviews:
 ·Comcast
 ·Comcast Digital ..
| Re: Blame the system... said by inbeetweeeen :
The answer lies in-between. The educational system needs to be overhauled to allow for more real world OS and Application training, and keep up with what Corporate America is looking for like familiarity with basic windows/msoffice/outlook, basic troubleshooting skills, basic network and pc skills. At the same time, AT&T needs to understand, that helpdesk technicians need more support like empowering them with ability to tap accounting/provision while the customer is on the line, so whatever issue he has (billing/technical) it can be solved right away. Also allow the tech to do this unscripted and without pressure of meeting some person's metrics. Quality support should not have useless metrics (time spent on call/etc) other than satisfaction survey given to customers at the end of the support call.
I was in help desk at a major corporation and it was a pressure cooker. Even if I knew how to resolve the issue, my manager would not allow us to be on the phone for more than 10 minutes. If it went over 10 minutes, we had to escalate the issue to the next level (Desktop Support).
I believe metrics have their place but when quality is sacrificed just so you could meet metrics numbers, problems become rampant.
Corporate America itself is generally screwed up.
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Satan is always busy. He makes bad things look good and good things look bad! Watch that Devil. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Blame the system... When I worked in ISP support, we didn't live and die by the numbers, but they were there, and I knew techs who loved to get their names at the top of the list each day. Yes, some were good enough and fast enough to really earn those numbers, but others did it by offering "fixes" that they knew good and well wouldn't work just to be able to get the customer off the phone so they could close the ticket. I knew this because I'd be getting that customer the next day and fixing the problem the other tech knew damn well how to fix but didn't because it would take too much time and lower their numbers. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Comcast
·Comcast Digital ..
| said by ISurfTooMuch:If AT&T wants quality employees, they have to be willing to pay for them. Oh no, you can't do that because companies will then say "in order to pay them better wages, we have to lower executive compensation and better manage our greed increase the cost to the consumers and decrease the quality of our products.
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Satan is always busy. He makes bad things look good and good things look bad! Watch that Devil. | |
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| | | | | Re: Blame the system... The most amusing part is that..well...they did that. They cut all management raises for the year, and Stephenson rejected his own compensation as well. Now, I'm not claiming the company I work for is a saint..I have to talk to these people on a daily basis....but I just found your comment amusing. | |
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| | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Kernersville, NC Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | said by ISurfTooMuch:Wrong answer. The real problem is that few people with enough education to handle tech support are willing to work for $8.00/hr. If AT&T wants quality employees, they have to be willing to pay for them. Nice assumption. The call center employees make roughly twice your mythical $8/hr figure at AT&T (plus health insurance, pension & 401k). | |
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| | | | | Re: Blame the system... If that's the case, then they could open a call center in Alabama and get it staffed almost immediately. Cost of living here is low, so a $30k salary would be fine for many young people just getting out of college.
But my guess is that AT&T wouldn't want to pay that much; otherwise, they wouldn't have outsourced those jobs in the first place. I've seen plenty of other companies offering much less for CSR's, so my guess is that AT&T is having trouble filling positions because they want to lowball salaries and/or hire workers from temp agencies with no benefits. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Blame the system... said by ISurfTooMuch:If that's the case, then they could open a call center in Alabama and get it staffed almost immediately. They did. It's here in downtown Birmingham | |
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| | | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by Cod:said by ISurfTooMuch:Wrong answer. The real problem is that few people with enough education to handle tech support are willing to work for $8.00/hr. If AT&T wants quality employees, they have to be willing to pay for them. Nice assumption. The call center employees make roughly twice your mythical $8/hr figure at AT&T (plus health insurance, pension & 401k). Show me that help wanted ad, and I'll show you well over 200,000 people who just got laid off whom are probably even overqualified for that job at $16/hr. Many times these human resource people who do the hiring want putty employees they can mold to do the worst job in the least amount of time as said in other replies. If you are seriously a graduate with an IT degree.. you will not work (and they will NOT HIRE) as a help desk rep for AT&T, plain and simple. More than likely, your job will be much lower down the food chain like best buy, or a cashier at the local grocery store (The completing a degree to be a movie producer only to get a job ripping ticket stubs the local cinema syndrome). Employers have a jaded sense of hiring inadequate staff who do a terrible job and wonder why those trained for the job don't apply and aren't hired.. maybe they stopped looking for those kinds of jobs which they are emminently qualified for, but just can't get because the hiring managers are such scumbags taking orders from even more incompetent scumbags on how to do their job. Micromanagement bureaucracy at it's finest. Though I will give AT&T a partial pass on this one, this is not just the workforce hiring process for them, this is EVERYWHERE-- government, education, military, corporate america, both large and small businesses. Until our worforce culture changes, expect the worst.. don't even think about hoping for the best.
Anyhow, AT&T is notorious for cutting costs the old fashioned Walmart way.. that is treat your employees at the bottom like crap and get away with anything and everything even if it means a fine/penalties down the road or lost revenue. Save less now to spend more later.
If you buy services from AT&T knowing this is what there is when you pull the curtain up.. you may want to reconsider buying that Iphone knowing who does the wireless... or U-Verse, or anything else AT&T sells or puts their branding on.
Some others to consider:
Sprint
Comcast
Qwest
Allstate
Chase
Bank of America
Walmart
Circuit City(cross this one out, they're gone!)
Time Warner
General Motors
Ford
Chrysler
DHL
All airline carriers
Target
Sears
Sleepys
Dish Network | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by ISurfTooMuch:If AT&T wants quality employees, they have to be willing to pay for them. And how much are you willing to pay for the service, in addition to what you do now, so that those few times you call for support, you'll get these employees that are better educated?
To be honest, the CEO of AT&T was absolutely correct, yet many American's don't like to hear it. For one, we are NOT better than those in other countries.. we're not more educated, we're not harder workers, and we don't always turn out a better product. American's like to be told that we're the best becuase it's a patriotic thing to do. The cold hard fact is that there are many Americans in this country that have a HS diploma that is worth about as much as the paper its printed on, and that's it. For some of these workers, $8.00 is being nice.
Before people jump on me.. for one, be realistic and not quick to jump becuase, well.. there are a lot of idiots out there. And two.. I never said EVERYONE was stupid.. | |
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| Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Embarq Now Centu..
| said by Dogfather:...that defends teacher interests before student interests. Please offer examples of how the system defends the interests of teachers over that of students.
I'd argue that the system is so broken that neither are having their interests adequately addressed.
I think too many people fall victim to ideology myopia, and that's just what the people who are supposed to care and fix prefer.
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| | Reviews:
·Comcast
·RCN CABLE
| Re: Blame the system... The real problem isn't the teachers. The real problem is the parents. It doesn't matter what a teacher does, if the parents have no interest in their child's education, neither will the child. Unfortunately, we live in a society that no longer values education. What chance does a teacher have against that? | |
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| | | Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Embarq Now Centu..
| Re: Blame the system... said by puck0114:The real problem isn't the teachers. The real problem is the parents. It doesn't matter what a teacher does, if the parents have no interest in their child's education, neither will the child. Unfortunately, we live in a society that no longer values education. What chance does a teacher have against that? Oh, I agree. There's plenty of blame to go around. My objection is when ideology propels people in one knee-jerk direction for every problem.
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| | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
·RCN CABLE
| Re: Blame the system... Unfortunately, the two parties in the US have pretty well trained everyone to react that way. People who have the ability to think for themselves and not just blindly accept what someone with an (R) or (D) behind their names tells them to accept are a rare breed. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Blame the system... additionally if one is of the "question everything while still doing what is required" mindset they will likely be fired in short order.
Indepence is now treated as a negative in the typical AmeriCorp. Either march in lock-step or work for $8/hr or off the grid.
And I am not talking about not doing the job correctly but rather today in these corps, as well as the US in general, anyone who dares question what is going on is treated as a malcontent. In a coportation today, that person has zero chance to advance. In the general population they are attacked for daring to speak out at all. Rational dialog is no longer even attempted by the PTB (powers that be) as they have so many "laws" on their side an employee can be dismissed for mere speculation or something in their personal life.
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Using Millenicom? Come visit the Unofficial Millenicom forum here on BBR »Millenicom | |
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| | | | Indeed. I know several teachers, and if anyone thinks they have it easy, then they must not know anyone in that profession. There are some school districts where money is so tight, teachers have to pay out of their own pockets for classroom materials. My sister-in-law is a teacher, and it isn't uncommon for her to work 12-hour days. A good friend of mine also teaches, and she told me about one of her first jobs, where she taught elementary school to a class made up primarily of children born to drug addicts. It was bad enough that these kids had almost every kind of learning disability under the sun, but she got zero support from the parents, who were often more messed up than the kids.
So I'd love to see one of these cushy teaching jobs. I bet I could find a few folks who'd love to apply for such a position. | |
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| | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | You obviously haven't seen the CTA in action out here on the left coast. | |
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| | | Obviously, you've never been a teacher. Teachers have to deal with students who don't do the work required of them, parents who obviously shouldn't have children and a school system that doesn't side with them. So, before you open your mouth, be a teacher. | |
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| | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Re: Blame the system... Oh please, I don't have to join the CTA to see that they are a huge part of the problem in California just as I didn't have to be on the 1st OJ jury to see that they were idiots or a member of Congress to see that they're corrupt and inept. | |
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 kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | It's called GREED... ...and it's not an accident that they are finding people NOW, after depression is on us - people are more willing to work for slave wages in these times. | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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| | Customer service skills? OK, there's reading... and what else? | |
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| Reviews:
·Insight Communic..
·WOW Internet and..
1 edit | Re: Customer service skills? said by meh37 :
OK, there's reading... and what else?
being able to dumb down what we're reading for the majority of the customers without making it seem like we're dumbing it down and being extremely couteous, atleast where I work. | |
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|  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by meh37 :
OK, there's reading... and what else?
That is my thought too. If you can read a script and can say "no we cannot help you" or "please hold" you are pretty much covered for a job in frontline customer service.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| | | Along with customer service skills, I hope they hire people who speak English. I'm tired of calling into places and people speak ghetto to me. Had some country folks before and thats a little strange as well. Had some Canadians before. They are ok. | |
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| |  KakalakyPremium
join:2003-04-04
Broken Arrow, OK
kudos:1 | Re: Customer service skills? Country folks think you're strange too. | |
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| | | | | Re: Customer service skills? I reckon they do. | |
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 winsyrstrifeRiver City BouncePremium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY
·Verizon FiOS
·Cablevision
| Coincidence? Maybe this explains the call I received last year, asking me if I would like a position as a senior tech...a job I had with AT&T several years ago as a contractor. After 3 years AT&T had to take you on as an employee (which included benefits, etc.) or cut you loose. AT&T chose the cheap route, and let me go.
I laughed when I realized it was the exact same job they were offering me, explained that I had been formerly employed in the position, then politely declined.
Your loss AT&T.
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"Suddenly everything is fainting, falling from a broken ladder's rung. There's a jolt exhilarating from the phone I'm holding...I hear the words of what I'll become, how eager the hands that reach for love." - Blind Melon - New Life | |
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| | I wonder if AT&T, this joker called those orignal 5,000 employees )that were laid off) & asked them if they wanted their old job back,at a lower pay rate and those 5,000 employees told him what he could do with his job & his pay scale | |
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| | Customer Perception In this economy, people are especially perceptive about the person on the other end of the phone. Knowing that a company is using people overseas may cause people to cancel their service. Outsourcing effects more than just the tech sector.
There has been an extreme dumbing down of America over the past few decades, but with all the people than have been laid off, especially in tech, there are more than enough qualified candidates to fill those positions. But we all know maximizing profit rules all. | |
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Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN | AT&T reminds me of When I was 16 (in 2001) , there was a medium sized steel redistribution company in South Chicago that used to pay me 20-40 bucks to fix their buildings network when it went down randomly. It was a company of about 40-50 employees and PC's, and 2 file servers . They did not want to hire a technician because of the cost.
for almost 6 years, I kept coming back to fix their network for cheap when it went down. Hoping to get hired from them some day, their CEO kept praising me and leading me on when I would fix his laptop for him.
then one day they called me and said they had a job for me.
But it was a labor job out in the yard for $9/per hour, I needed the money so I took the job.
and of course, when I was working their, they would call me in to fix things all the time. Then they would not pay me the 20-40 bucks anymore, and tried to say that I was already being paid on the clock ($9/hour).
At that point I told them.
"Sorry, my job description is a union laborer, if you want me to keep fixing things you are going to have to pay separately for it at a minimum of $20/hour" (Which I thought was fair)
They did not want to pay that, so they PAID A TECHNICIAN TO MOVE TO THE USA FROM CANADA!! AND HIRED HIM AS AN OFFICIAL TECHNICIAN.
I've never felt more disgruntled...
Moral of this story...well don't fix things for cheap to try to get hired. | |
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 jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:1 | Lowering the bar The India cs lowered the bar so much that it's now easier to find equally qualified cs here.
And, with the economy so crappy, they'll be happy to work for $8/hr. | |
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deadzonedPremium
join:2005-04-13
Baton Rouge, LA | Good It's nice to see some jobs appearing rather than disappearing for a change. At this point, I think our economy needs anything it can get. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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| | jobs back to the us how long will they stay in the us i bet you not for long | |
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| | | Re: jobs back to the us They take away jobs and people gripe. They bring back jobs and people gripe  | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| Need Workers We have all the skilled workers AT&T need, it called a high school education with job training. The problem is AT7T was too nearsighted and lazy to train skilled workers and expect the Universities to do the job for them to the point of absurdity of have a person spend four yeas at a college to become a cube dwelling phone jockey. It only worked in India because working phones paid better then working the uncles’ farm. I know High School educated SMT machine operators, Solder rework technicians who have more responsibility and better paid than the University trained call center workers. Let’s not forget who jobs were outsourced, how many Bell South call center works had a college degree? I bet very few and they did the job.
If AT&T wants skilled workers it called Apprenticeships, IF AT&T want professionals trains in the disciplines of Arts, Sciences, Engineering and Business then do go to the Universities. | |
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| | please.... $11/hour at top pay is considered good paying job??? If that is the case why is Mr Stephenson making 10million+ year.(actually I believe it is closer to 30M) which is over 5k/hour. If they worked 40hrs a week. which i doubt...... | |
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| kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: please.... If you do the math you can see why I call this typical corporate BS - it's due to PURE GREED. | |
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 quetwoThat VoIP GuyPremium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI | Sneaky move... (T) just finished closing up two call centers in Michigan, and massive lay-offs for all their tech support. Now they are opening up new call centers... I'm sure we as the tax payers are going to be happy to pay for that!! | |
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1 edit | Re: Sneaky move... I don't blame them for wanting to run away from Michigan. Everyone else is doing it. | |
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| | But did they mention..... how they are also cutting many of the people they have under contract?
I would be willing to bet this is probably a wash when all is said and done. | |
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| | The real Reason The real reason is that Indian are quitting these dead end jobs in droves. Even in india people are refusing to do these highly stressful job dealing with majority of americans many of whom who even dont know even how to type their name with loweset IQ.
Link - »www.citizensugar.com/2132468
Politicians constantly talk about how US jobs have been shipped over seas. But something else travels with the jobs — stress. While 70 percent of outsourced American jobs go to India's call centers, stressed-out Indian youth want to ditch their unhealthy posts for more fulfilling careers.
You may get frustrated when you have to call another country for customer service, but the combination of odd hours and overwork caused one 23-year-old Indian recent college graduate to have a heart attack! As you can imagine, the call center workers are getting ready to trade the higher-paying jobs for less stress and better hours. BBC interviewed workers who explained, "they quit because it was frustrating to continue to answer calls day after day, year after year. No creativity, no use of mind required. Some say their minds have become cabbage."
A recent satirical video from the Onion tracked how "Obama Promises to Stop American's Sh*tty Jobs From Going Overseas." Do you think the quality of lost jobs should be included in a discussion about outsourcing? | |
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| | | Re: The real Reason No kidding? You think only people in India feel that way? Talk to some of the people here in the good old USA that work for the Evil Empire directly. | |
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 Duramax08A Challenger AppearsPremium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | im glad just got off the phone with att in india, can barely hear what they are saying....
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | AT&T Having trouble filling Jobs... that pay $7.00 an hour ....
Simply put, it costs more to live here, and AT&T doesn't want to pay a living wage. | |
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| | H1B's I worked for an AT&T call center as a contractor once. 90% of the workers there were foreign contractors in a state with the highest unemployment in the country. Why outsource to another country when you can bring the same people here? I wonder how many of the 1400 jobs were actually filled by American citizens. | |
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| | I agree with that.. After shipping these jobs off to places like India where a call center rep makes about 60 dollars a week they bring the jobs back and hire H1B's at 8.50 per hour rather than a native english speaking American at 13.00 dollars an hour. The results are similar.
I worked at Cisco back in 97 to 2001 in San Jose Ca. and there were more indian people on H1B status than any other nationality.
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|  kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: H1B's said by memeiiioweyoutwo :
I agree with that.. After shipping these jobs off to places like India where a call center rep makes about 60 dollars a week they bring the jobs back and hire H1B's at 8.50 per hour rather than a native english speaking American at 13.00 dollars an hour. The results are similar.
I worked at Cisco back in 97 to 2001 in San Jose Ca. and there were more indian people on H1B status than any other nationality.
LOL. What a fool you are. Those H1B people don't work in a call center...they are engineers and developers and scientists.
this country doesn't produce people with skill and good work ethics any more...so we import them from a country that has plenty of them, but few opportunities.
A company can't just hire H1B people because it feels like it...it has to prove that the need cannot be met with workers already in this country. | |
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| | | | Re: H1B's said by kapil:LOL. What a fool you are. Those H1B people don't work in a call center...they are engineers and developers and scientists. . . . A company can't just hire H1B people because it feels like it...it has to prove that the need cannot be met with workers already in this country. Sorry but you're wrong. AT&T regularly hires H1B's for tier1 networking support in its call centers. I worked in one. They could have trained any US citizen to do this work but didn't. They use Indian contract agencies as preferred vendors and hired H1B's for a maximum of 2 years (normally 1 year with 1 year extention) and then would have to let them go for 6 mo's before they could hire them back. I think the gap was there so that weren't required by their own HR rules to hire them as full-time AT&T employees.
I think all of their positions would be Indian H1b's but there's the occasional client that does not want to hear an Indian accent on the other end of the phone that they must appease to keep the support contract.
If there's still a requirement to prove that the need cannot be met with American worker's -- there are ways around it. One of them is to simply increase the "requirements" to way beyond what they need to be but not the pay -- the H1B says he has whatever is needed whether he has them or not. There's no good way of verifying an H1b's qualifications and the client generally doesn't care since they weren't real requirements anyway. The contracting company gets a pre-negotiated rate for each person they place and has no incentive to pay the contractor anything but the minimum and H1B's are the easiest target. I've seen cases where the H1B is getting about a third of the contract agency's cut. | |
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| | | kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | Re: H1B's Yes, but in this case, AT&T is not hiring an individual with a H1 visa...it's the company to which AT&T is outsourcing the work.
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»www.Digium.com | |
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If I had a business that half the product we turned out was defective or you couldn't put into the marketplace, I would shut that business down.
