jt7 @comcast.net |
jt7
Anon
2009-Apr-9 12:46 pm
services are outatt and verizon service are not working in morgan hill or gilory cali. internet home phone and cell phone not workign at all for hours. | |
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| Greg_Z Premium Member join:2001-08-08 Springfield, IL |
Greg_Z
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 12:52 pm
Re: services are outThat would be because someone cut a Fiber line as the story states. "The outage is impacting not only AT&T customers, but wireless and DSL customers with Verizon and other competitors such as Sonic.net, which also offered a tweet on the outage." | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5 to jt7
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 1:01 pm
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| c4junk Premium Member join:2004-05-08 Orlando, FL
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c4junk to jt7
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 2:02 pm
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I wonder what happened to diverse fiber routes and ring switch on the mux's, I think there is more to the story than we will ever know. | |
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| | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY |
Re: services are outsaid by c4junk: I wonder what happened to diverse fiber routes and ring switch on the mux's, I think there is more to the story than we will ever know. Many more rings are collapsed than they want you to know! While they still might be 'protected', one cut and everyone is out of luck. | |
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| | elbm join:2000-08-03 Reisterstown, MD 1 edit |
to c4junk
Diversity usually follows these kind outages. As another poster said most rings are collapsed rings e.g. all 4 fibers under one sheath. Gives the carriers some redundancy but no diversity.
Diverse entrance/route/pop/co builds are very expensive and end users (not individual users-- wireless providers, isps, big business...) often don't realize how vulnerable they are until a failure happens. I have spent the last several years on diversity projects for wireless carriers, large brokerage firms, back haul providers-- all of which are reacting to major outages because of fiber failures. | |
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| | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY |
Re: services are outsaid by elbm:Diversity usually follows these kind outages. As another poster said most rings are collapsed rings e.g. all 4 fibers under one sheath. Gives the carriers some redundancy but no diversity. Diverse entrance/route/pop/co builds are very expensive and end users (not individual users-- wireless providers, isps, big business...) often don't realize how vulnerable they are until a failure happens. I have spent the last several years on diversity projects for wireless carriers, large brokerage firms, back haul providers-- all of which are reacting to major outages because of fiber failures. Thats absolutely correct. I think many people would be shocked to know that there are a lot of tier 1 backbone links that are 4 fiber unprotected between cities. You cut those links and a lot of people are SOL.... | |
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pende_tim Premium Member join:2004-01-04 Selbyville, DE |
Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0Backhoe wins again. | |
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Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. I don't know what the heck they were digging for but there was a layer of rocks in the ditch as well. Rocks went shooting up then rained back down. Those guys had to make a run for it. Finally the guy in the back hoe covered the burst with the bucket and water didn't shoot up as much.
They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. | |
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| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 1:40 pm
Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0said by ninjatutle:They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. Nice solution. The utility mis-marks the location of lines and you want the 3rd party backhoe operator to be killed. | |
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no_one
Anon
2009-Apr-9 3:10 pm
Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0said by FFH5:said by ninjatutle:They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. Nice solution. The utility mis-marks the location of lines and you want the 3rd party backhoe operator to be killed. Depends on what you do after hitting it. If touch backhoe while getting off and it is still energized could be a problem. However a backhoe will usually just have a quick flash boom since the bucket is metal and shorts and blows the fuse on the electric. May get a tooth or two fried off the bucket but the operator will most likely be fine. Except for a scare. Now when you get to the way higher voltages then may be a problem. Some places put oil cooled 50,000 plus lines in the ground as mains. Now of course there are those nice relays that sometimes try to automatically put the power back on. The boom and off again. So always assume it is still live or can become live again until the power company shows up. | |
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| | | | pende_tim Premium Member join:2004-01-04 Selbyville, DE |
Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0Most primary power distribution systems will to reclose 3 times before giving up on a fault.
That can throw a tree branch off the lines or clear light metal, like a balloon.
Tim | |
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said by ninjatutle:He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. Even a water main is nothing. Try hitting a gas main. | |
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Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0said by fifty nine:Even a water main is nothing. Try hitting a gas main. A low pressure gas main is hazardous enough. But before you break the ground, locate the high pressure gas main. » www.eastforkfire.org/Tra ··· ain.html | |
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| | | Frank Premium Member join:2000-11-03 somewhere |
to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:said by ninjatutle:He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. Even a water main is nothing. Try hitting a gas main. gas main is nothing, try hitting a sewer main.... you'll wind up having a real crappy day | |
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to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle:He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. I don't know what the heck they were digging for but there was a layer of rocks in the ditch as well. Rocks went shooting up then rained back down. Those guys had to make a run for it. Finally the guy in the back hoe covered the burst with the bucket and water didn't shoot up as much. They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. That sounds great except fiber doesnt transmit electricity. It only sends a beam of light. | |
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Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0I didn't know that it didnt' transmit electricity. But I was implying they piggyback a small cable to fibre cable I thought that part would have been obvious mr anonburge. | |
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| | SLD Premium Member join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA |
to ninjatutle
I bet they were pirates! | |
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| GemSnake Premium Member join:2000-10-19 3rd layer |
to pende_tim
At 2am? Possible but unlikely. | |
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| | pende_tim Premium Member join:2004-01-04 Selbyville, DE |
Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0They do a LOT of road work here in NJ at night. Less traffic. Safer for the workers and less traffic jams.
Tim | |
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| N10Cities Premium Member join:2002-05-07 0000000 Asus RT-AC87
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to pende_tim
No backhoe involved....someone climbed down the manhole and INTENTIONALLY cut the cables according to Mercury News.... | |
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| NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P
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to pende_tim
Except that the reports are that the fiber was accessed in subterranean communication vaults, accessed through manholes. One in San Carlos, California, and the other in San José, California. I know the S.J. intersection; not a very heavily traveled route at 0200 hrs. on most days. | |
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Test99 Premium Member join:2003-04-24 San Jose, CA |
Test99
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 1:23 pm
Everything Is OK HereWhen I woke up this morning my computer had lost its Internet connection. Disabling and re-enabling the local network connection fixed it. Don't know if that was related.
No problems with DSLExtreme and T-Mobile now. | |
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Sprint
Anon
2009-Apr-9 1:40 pm
sprint is out as wellSPRINT is out as well. | |
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cghh join:2001-01-15 Milpitas, CA 1 edit |
cghh
Member
2009-Apr-9 2:46 pm
Not a backhoeThe press is reporting that this appears to be sabotage, not an errant backhoe, since a manhole cover was removed and the fiber cut. And they knew exactly what to cut. | |
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Re: Not a backhoeIf true, I hope the individual was alone and doesn't talk about it. There could be a significant reward. | |
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to cghh
said by cghh:The press is reporting that this appears to be sabotage, not an errant backhoe, since a manhole cover was removed and the fiber cut. And they knew exactly what to cut. If that's true, this could be related to the CWA-AT&T bargaining going on right now. We always seem to get a few of these dumbasses who think sabotaging company assets will "help the cause". Last contract some people entered a garage in Michigan (i think) and played demolition derby with all the company vehicles. If someone intentionally cut that fiber they could be facing federal prison... not to bright. | |
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Re: Not a backhoeI believe that it was Chicago where the demolition derby occurred. | |
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| | | Lazlow join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO |
Lazlow
Member
2009-Apr-9 6:07 pm
Re: Not a backhoeBeing that a lot of security is run over the phone with backup over cell (cell service was also effected by this), one has to wonder if this might not be robbery related. | |
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Re: Not a backhoeIt would have to be an extremely astute robber to do it this way. The robber would have to know which cable protected his target and whether it was copper or fiber fed and have the knowledge of any diverse ring applications. In short, I doubt the robbery theory since the damage was in a manhole and the robber would have had to have knowledge which sheath held both the protection circuit, as well as the cell sites for the entire area. | |
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| | | | | David Premium Member join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL |
David
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 6:20 pm
Re: Not a backhoeMy guess is copper thieves. | |
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toplevelpotUnlucky in women and cards join:2008-04-19 Los Angeles, CA |
msnbc says CWA denies involvement | |
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KentheSoldier
Anon
2009-Apr-9 3:12 pm
AT&T Fiber Cut - SaboutageAll, in case you were not aware, AT&T is going through contract negotiations with the Communications Workers of America. Here is a post at the CWA Website. I think it most likely is the saboutage of an overly active CWA member. So, the question is "Is it terrorism?" This is a definition, "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons." So, decide for yourselves.
AT&T "Legacy T" Bargaining Report #25 April 9, 2009
During the last two days, the Union has been questioning the Company on every change in every Article in the "final" proposal the Company dumped on the bargaining table at 2:30 a.m. Sunday (after the Contract expired). This has been a very lengthy process as the Company scrambles to try to justify their unjustifiable proposals.
We have also been slamming them on why they rejected Union proposals that were still being discussed on the final day. From our demand to stop forced overtime for our members in Article 36 to our comprehensive proposal to bring Articles 45 and 46 into line with the rest of the Contract, the Company mindlessly repeats over and over, "We don't want to increase our costs"; "We don't want to limit our flexibility." While they demand "consistency" in the agreement when it takes our rights and benefits away from us, they NEVER want consistency when it means our members will see improvements. We also hammered away at the Company attack on job security in Article 43, where they are attempting to take away our watermark of jobs and the language that requires them to replace full-time contractors with regular full-time employees.
A good part of yesterday was spent going over their health care proposal, which we will continue today.
We agreed to recess for the weekend. The next report will be on Monday.
For those of you working this weekend, remember NO BUSINESS AS USUAL | |
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Ben Premium Member join:2007-06-17 Fort Worth, TX |
Ben
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 3:18 pm
Redundant Connections?This is what I'm wondering about.
Why wasn't there any redundancy? | |
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| DarkflightStitch 626 LTE join:2001-03-03 Rowland Heights, CA |
Re: Redundant Connections?Someone with some knowledge of the fiber infrastructure in the area must have know that the line handles a significant amount of traffic that didn't have redundancy. Usually redundancy works from city to city but within city, some areas due to existing infrastruture, there may be only on way for wiring to go in or out... | |
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| | wierdo join:2001-02-16 Miami, FL
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wierdo
Member
2009-Apr-9 5:30 pm
Re: Redundant Connections?There's not nearly as much redundancy as you think there is. Additionally, in many areas, the fiber is easy to identify by the call before you dig signs running along its path. | |
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CWAMEMBER
Anon
2009-Apr-9 4:21 pm
fiber cutI'm a CWA member and believe me, only a nut would do this. We would never condone such a thing and hope that whomever did it gets caught and punished. I work in fiber optic protection and we take an ownership attitude in our route as well as pride ourselves in keeping the fiber from being cut.
Of course it could be just some vandals that are using the negotiations as an excuse to create some damage.
In fact it could be someone who wants it to look like a CWA member. Thumper999 | |
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David Premium Member join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL |
David
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 5:04 pm
.From the way this video looks, looks like someone went "cutting" looking for copper. It's a pretty clean cut, from what I have seen it's more than one. Guy holds the end of the cable right up. » cbs5.com/video/?id=48654 ··· port.comMy guess is someone was looking for copper. | |
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atuarreHere come the drums Premium Member join:2004-02-14 EC/SETX SWLA |
atuarre
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 6:51 pm
REHas this been repaired; do we know yet? | |
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Re: REWell, I can safely say that down here in lower Santa Cruz Co. service has apparently been restored (since around 7:30pm). My Verizon service is up as well as my AT&T DSL line (which was also down). I don't know about other parts of the affected areas though. | |
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SoJoI'll Sleep when I am Dead Premium Member join:2002-05-07 Gilroy, CA |
SoJo
Premium Member
2009-Apr-9 7:26 pm
Inside JobThis is an inside Job if there ever was one. The perps that did this knew what cables to cut to take out the service they did.
The scary part in all of this is Emergency Services in South Santa Clara (911) are affected by this.
The other impact of this is anyone trying to make a purchase with an ATM or Credit Card can't.
If hope this is not tied to the contract talks that are going on between the Union and AT&T. If it is the Union lost a lot of sympathy from the people. | |
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phxmarkWhat Country Are We Living In? join:2000-12-27 Glendale, AZ |
phxmark
Member
2009-Apr-10 12:45 am
Is it fixed yet?Having trouble accessing Hotmail tonight. Is this cause? | |
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OPT 777
Anon
2009-Apr-10 8:40 pm
Re: Is it fixed yet?said by phxmark:Having trouble accessing Hotmail tonight. Is this cause? said by phxmark:Having trouble accessing Hotmail tonight. Is this cause? My whole take on this is: as a lot of you wrote, it took someone with knowlege to create the catastrophy that happened, who better to know is AT&T itself... It would help them win sympathy from John Q public, Against CWA... Notice the reward went to $250,000.. As reported today that is the largest reward AT&T has ever offered... They sure have gotten a lot of FREE publicity out of this event... And a lot of Pissed off Scared people in the South Bay... Making people believe that they need At&t... And it makes it very easy to jump to conclusions! After all what did it cost them extra? All the Lineman,C Splicers, are on the payrole 40 hours a week anyway...Some usage over those cables and whatever footage of fiber to replace, which is NOT all that expensive, and they have stock on hand anyway.. I Think this was a very good attempt from Att management to have the public jump to conclusions and put blame on CWA.... | |
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Patriot
Anon
2009-Apr-11 7:38 am
Re: Is it fixed yet?After AT&T's shameless and illegal wiretapping of most Internet and voice traffic and spending 1.5 million to bribe congress to give them immunity for their criminal actions I don't trust ANYTHING said by AT&T.
Until FULL discloser of AT&T's illegal activities and criminal prosecution of all involved parties is commenced I wouldn't lift a finger to help AT&T even for $250,000.00
My conscience is worth more than that.
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