  jt7
@comcast.net | services are out att and verizon service are not working in morgan hill or gilory cali. internet home phone and cell phone not workign at all for hours. | |
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 |  Greg_ZPremium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: services are out That would be because someone cut a Fiber line as the story states. "The outage is impacting not only AT&T customers, but wireless and DSL customers with Verizon and other competitors such as Sonic.net, which also offered a tweet on the outage." | |
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| c4junkPremium
join:2004-05-08
Orlando, FL | I wonder what happened to diverse fiber routes and ring switch on the mux's, I think there is more to the story than we will ever know. | |
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| |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: services are out said by c4junk: I wonder what happened to diverse fiber routes and ring switch on the mux's, I think there is more to the story than we will ever know. Many more rings are collapsed than they want you to know! While they still might be 'protected', one cut and everyone is out of luck. 
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| |  elbm
join:2000-08-03
Reisterstown, MD
1 edit | Diversity usually follows these kind outages. As another poster said most rings are collapsed rings e.g. all 4 fibers under one sheath. Gives the carriers some redundancy but no diversity.
Diverse entrance/route/pop/co builds are very expensive and end users (not individual users-- wireless providers, isps, big business...) often don't realize how vulnerable they are until a failure happens. I have spent the last several years on diversity projects for wireless carriers, large brokerage firms, back haul providers-- all of which are reacting to major outages because of fiber failures. | |
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| | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: services are out said by elbm:Diversity usually follows these kind outages. As another poster said most rings are collapsed rings e.g. all 4 fibers under one sheath. Gives the carriers some redundancy but no diversity. Diverse entrance/route/pop/co builds are very expensive and end users (not individual users-- wireless providers, isps, big business...) often don't realize how vulnerable they are until a failure happens. I have spent the last several years on diversity projects for wireless carriers, large brokerage firms, back haul providers-- all of which are reacting to major outages because of fiber failures. Thats absolutely correct. I think many people would be shocked to know that there are a lot of tier 1 backbone links that are 4 fiber unprotected between cities. You cut those links and a lot of people are SOL....
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 Backhoe wins again. | |
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| | | Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. I don't know what the heck they were digging for but there was a layer of rocks in the ditch as well. Rocks went shooting up then rained back down. Those guys had to make a run for it. Finally the guy in the back hoe covered the burst with the bucket and water didn't shoot up as much.
They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. | |
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| |  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 said by ninjatutle:They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. Nice solution. The utility mis-marks the location of lines and you want the 3rd party backhoe operator to be killed. 
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | | | Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 said by Linklist:said by ninjatutle:They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. Nice solution. The utility mis-marks the location of lines and you want the 3rd party backhoe operator to be killed. Depends on what you do after hitting it. If touch backhoe while getting off and it is still energized could be a problem.
However a backhoe will usually just have a quick flash boom since the bucket is metal and shorts and blows the fuse on the electric. May get a tooth or two fried off the bucket but the operator will most likely be fine. Except for a scare. Now when you get to the way higher voltages then may be a problem. Some places put oil cooled 50,000 plus lines in the ground as mains.
Now of course there are those nice relays that sometimes try to automatically put the power back on. The boom and off again. So always assume it is still live or can become live again until the power company shows up. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
 ·ProLog
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·voip.ms
| Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 Most primary power distribution systems will to reclose 3 times before giving up on a fault.
That can throw a tree branch off the lines or clear light metal, like a balloon.
Tim
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. | |
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| | | | said by ninjatutle:He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. Even a water main is nothing. Try hitting a gas main. | |
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| | |  birdfeedrPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:8 | Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 said by fifty nine:Even a water main is nothing. Try hitting a gas main. A low pressure gas main is hazardous enough. But before you break the ground, locate the high pressure gas main.
»www.eastforkfire.org/Training/GasMain.html | |
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| | |  Frankis chillingPremium
join:2000-11-03
somewhere | said by fifty nine:said by ninjatutle:He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. Even a water main is nothing. Try hitting a gas main. gas main is nothing, try hitting a sewer main.... you'll wind up having a real crappy day 
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At first I thought everyone on the highway was drunk but then I realized I was driving in Florida | |
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| | | | said by ninjatutle:He was lucky it was just fibre. One time I saw a guy hit a water main. I don't know what the heck they were digging for but there was a layer of rocks in the ditch as well. Rocks went shooting up then rained back down. Those guys had to make a run for it. Finally the guy in the back hoe covered the burst with the bucket and water didn't shoot up as much. They should add some voltage to these fibre lines. When anyone breaks one, they'll get a nice shock and won't do that again. That sounds great except fiber doesnt transmit electricity. It only sends a beam of light. | |
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| | | | | Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 I didn't know that it didnt' transmit electricity. But I was implying they piggyback a small cable to fibre cable 
I thought that part would have been obvious mr anonburge. | |
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| |  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | I bet they were pirates! | |
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| | | At 2am? Possible but unlikely.
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"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka | |
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| | | | Re: Back Hoe 1 / Fiber 0 They do a LOT of road work here in NJ at night. Less traffic. Safer for the workers and less traffic jams.
Tim
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. | |
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| Reviews:
·World Lynx
·Cox HSI
| No backhoe involved....someone climbed down the manhole and INTENTIONALLY cut the cables according to Mercury News.... | |
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Test99Premium
join:2003-04-24
San Jose, CA
kudos:1 | Everything Is OK Here When I woke up this morning my computer had lost its Internet connection. Disabling and re-enabling the local network connection fixed it. Don't know if that was related.
No problems with DSLExtreme and T-Mobile now. | |
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| | sprint is out as well SPRINT is out as well. | |
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cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA
1 edit | Not a backhoe The press is reporting that this appears to be sabotage, not an errant backhoe, since a manhole cover was removed and the fiber cut. And they knew exactly what to cut. | |
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| | | Re: Not a backhoe If true, I hope the individual was alone and doesn't talk about it. There could be a significant reward. | |
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| | | said by cghh:The press is reporting that this appears to be sabotage, not an errant backhoe, since a manhole cover was removed and the fiber cut. And they knew exactly what to cut. If that's true, this could be related to the CWA-AT&T bargaining going on right now. We always seem to get a few of these dumbasses who think sabotaging company assets will "help the cause". Last contract some people entered a garage in Michigan (i think) and played demolition derby with all the company vehicles.
If someone intentionally cut that fiber they could be facing federal prison... not to bright.
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"Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now." | |
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| | | | Re: Not a backhoe I believe that it was Chicago where the demolition derby occurred. | |
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| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Not a backhoe Being that a lot of security is run over the phone with backup over cell (cell service was also effected by this), one has to wonder if this might not be robbery related. | |
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 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: Not a backhoe It would have to be an extremely astute robber to do it this way. The robber would have to know which cable protected his target and whether it was copper or fiber fed and have the knowledge of any diverse ring applications. In short, I doubt the robbery theory since the damage was in a manhole and the robber would have had to have knowledge which sheath held both the protection circuit, as well as the cell sites for the entire area. | |
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| | | | |  DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:78 | Re: Not a backhoe My guess is copper thieves. | |
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| | AT&T Fiber Cut - Saboutage All, in case you were not aware, AT&T is going through contract negotiations with the Communications Workers of America. Here is a post at the CWA Website. I think it most likely is the saboutage of an overly active CWA member. So, the question is "Is it terrorism?" This is a definition, "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons." So, decide for yourselves.
AT&T "Legacy T" Bargaining Report #25
April 9, 2009
During the last two days, the Union has been questioning the Company on every change in every Article in the "final" proposal the Company dumped on the bargaining table at 2:30 a.m. Sunday (after the Contract expired). This has been a very lengthy process as the Company scrambles to try to justify their unjustifiable proposals.
We have also been slamming them on why they rejected Union proposals that were still being discussed on the final day. From our demand to stop forced overtime for our members in Article 36 to our comprehensive proposal to bring Articles 45 and 46 into line with the rest of the Contract, the Company mindlessly repeats over and over, "We don't want to increase our costs"; "We don't want to limit our flexibility." While they demand "consistency" in the agreement when it takes our rights and benefits away from us, they NEVER want consistency when it means our members will see improvements. We also hammered away at the Company attack on job security in Article 43, where they are attempting to take away our watermark of jobs and the language that requires them to replace full-time contractors with regular full-time employees.
A good part of yesterday was spent going over their health care proposal, which we will continue today.
We agreed to recess for the weekend. The next report will be on Monday.
For those of you working this weekend, remember – NO BUSINESS AS USUAL | |
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 BenPremium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL | Redundant Connections? This is what I'm wondering about.
Why wasn't there any redundancy? | |
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|  Darkflight4G Stitch626
join:2001-03-03
Rowland Heights, CA | Re: Redundant Connections? Someone with some knowledge of the fiber infrastructure in the area must have know that the line handles a significant amount of traffic that didn't have redundancy. Usually redundancy works from city to city but within city, some areas due to existing infrastruture, there may be only on way for wiring to go in or out... | |
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| | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK | Re: Redundant Connections? There's not nearly as much redundancy as you think there is. Additionally, in many areas, the fiber is easy to identify by the call before you dig signs running along its path.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | fiber cut I'm a CWA member and believe me, only a nut would do this. We would never condone such a thing and hope that whomever did it gets caught and punished. I work in fiber optic protection and we take an ownership attitude in our route as well as pride ourselves in keeping the fiber from being cut.
Of course it could be just some vandals that are using the negotiations as an excuse to create some damage.
In fact it could be someone who wants it to look like a CWA member.
Thumper999 | |
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|  calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: fiber cut Who but a CWA member would know where and which cables to cut?
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| | LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 |  Re: fiber cut
said by calvoiper:Who but a CWA member would know where and which cables to cut? Potential terrorist walk thru for more widespread damage planned against US infrastructure?
There are a few dozen choke points in the fiber backbones in the US that are only marginally protected. Those knowing where they are(and many people in the industry and also large national customers know that info) could wreak havoc on the internet and also landline phone systems in the US.
So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that was just pure vandalism.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | | I live in the affected area about 20 miles south of where the cable was cut. With a little knowledge of how the phone system works it's VERY clear in this area that the telecom cables are by the railroad tracks. They follow them from San Jose all the way to Gilroy (about 30 miles.)
I'm not speculating on who did it or why, but i just want to put it out there that it wouldn't take a knowledgeable employee to cut the right line to knock out a bunch of customers. I am a little shocked that there was no redundancy though. | |
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| | | | said by calvoiper:Who but a CWA member would know where and which cables to cut? A Manager that thinks that they are above the law as most who work at AT&T. Anyone that would do something like this at a time like this is "nuts" to me that would only piss the company off more | |
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| Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: . Well, David, if the guy was looking for copper, he sure wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I noticed a couple of good sized copper cables on each side of the manhole entrance. One, in a waffle case which will leak air pressure like a big dog, given half a chance, my knowledge of waffle cases comes for being involved with cable repair for 20 years or so. | |
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| | OBT
join:2003-02-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: . Waffle cases leak?That's stupid.No more than armadillos or hard cases | |
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| wev567
join:2006-02-25
Pittsburgh, PA | said by David:My guess is someone was looking for copper. Doubt it. A lot of copper cables are difficult, almost impossible, to pull out of those ducts and you'd have to know where the other man hole is to cut off that end to even consider it. | |
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| | | | Re: . Your average copper is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so nothing they do would surprise me. | |
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 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | RE Has this been repaired; do we know yet? | |
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| | | Re: RE Well, I can safely say that down here in lower Santa Cruz Co. service has apparently been restored (since around 7:30pm). My Verizon service is up as well as my AT&T DSL line (which was also down). I don't know about other parts of the affected areas though. | |
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 SoJoI'll Sleep when I am DeadPremium
join:2002-05-07
Gilroy, CA | Inside Job This is an inside Job if there ever was one. The perps that did this knew what cables to cut to take out the service they did.
The scary part in all of this is Emergency Services in South Santa Clara (911) are affected by this.
The other impact of this is anyone trying to make a purchase with an ATM or Credit Card can't.
If hope this is not tied to the contract talks that are going on between the Union and AT&T. If it is the Union lost a lot of sympathy from the people.
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"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"- Bluto- Animal House | |
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 phxmarkWhat Country Are We Living In?
join:2000-12-27
Glendale, AZ | Is it fixed yet? Having trouble accessing Hotmail tonight. Is this cause? | |
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| | | Re: Is it fixed yet? said by phxmark:Having trouble accessing Hotmail tonight. Is this cause? said by phxmark:Having trouble accessing Hotmail tonight. Is this cause? My whole take on this is: as a lot of you wrote, it took someone with knowlege to create the catastrophy that happened, who better to know is AT&T itself... It would help them win sympathy from John Q public, Against CWA... Notice the reward went to $250,000.. As reported today that is the largest reward AT&T has ever offered... They sure have gotten a lot of FREE publicity out of this event... And a lot of Pissed off Scared people in the South Bay... Making people believe that they need At&t... And it makes it very easy to jump to conclusions! After all what did it cost them extra? All the Lineman,C Splicers, are on the payrole 40 hours a week anyway...Some usage over those cables and whatever footage of fiber to replace, which is NOT all that expensive, and they have stock on hand anyway.. I Think this was a very good attempt from Att management to have the public jump to conclusions and put blame on CWA.... | |
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| | | | Re: Is it fixed yet? After AT&T's shameless and illegal wiretapping of most Internet and voice traffic and spending 1.5 million to bribe congress to give them immunity for their criminal actions I don't trust ANYTHING said by AT&T.
Until FULL discloser of AT&T's illegal activities and criminal prosecution of all involved parties is commenced I wouldn't lift a finger to help AT&T even for $250,000.00
My conscience is worth more than that.
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