AT&T Front Group Claims Internet End Is Nigh Expect Internet brownouts unless AT&T lobbyists get what they want... As a rule, most warnings of Internet capacity armageddon come from traffic shaping companies looking to sell hardware, or industry lobbyists trying to shape policy through think tanks. The term "exaflood," created by the same think tank who crafted the term "intelligent design," is part of a sophisticated campaign aimed at convincing the press, public and lawmakers that without giving carriers what they want (less regulation, no net neutrality laws, no price controls, huge subsidies and tax credits, less consumer protection), the world will simply run out of bandwidth and we'll all be weeping over our clogged tubes. Andrew Odlyzko, one of the nation's top experts on global Internet traffic, repeatedly notes that while growth is strong, it doesn't necessitate drastic new pricing model shifts (metered billing), and is entirely manageable with just modest capacity upgrades. According to Odlyzko, the current Internet growth rate of about 50% per year "can be accommodated with essentially the current level of capital investment." If anything, Odlyzko predicts a slow down (something Cogent confirms). But carriers are better served having the public worry that we're running out of capacity and need to take drastic steps to avoid problems. That's why a think tank named the Discovery Institute (who also crafted the phrase "intelligent design" used to help push creationism into U.S. classrooms) cooked up the term "exaflood" in a 2007 Wall Street Journal editorial. The term is part of a campaign aimed at convincing the public and lawmakers that an industry that has always managed to adapt to bandwidth demand, will suddenly fail to do so without drastic action. What action? In addition to favorable policy, carriers throughout North America are using the non-existent crunch to argue for new metered pricing models, and increased throttling of competitors' traffic. Carriers like AT&T can't very well propose new caps on usage if you're out there believing that they already make a healthy profit and can consistently meet capacity demands. One of the biggest pushers of the exaflood myth is the Internet Innovation Alliance, an industry trade group spearheaded largely by AT&T. With AT&T funding, the IIA likes to selectively pluck data that supports their exaflood concept from a research firm named Nemertes research about once a year. The IIA is back again this week with a press release proclaiming that by 2012, apparently incompetent engineers won't be able to manage capacity, and we will begin seeing brownouts. Fixing this incompetence will require Uncle Sam doing what AT&T wants them to: "The exponential explosion of content will persist during challenging economic times, but a prolonged global recession could starve networks of the necessary capital investment," said Bruce Mehlman, co-chair of Internet Innovation Alliance. "It's more important than ever to develop a National Broadband Strategy that will encourage investment and innovations that accelerate America's global competitiveness and address major national challenges, such as energy efficiency, health care cost and quality educational opportunity." What the IIA doesn't tell you in their release is how they hope to accommodate this mythical spending shortfall to address their mythical bandwidth crisis, or what their version of a national broadband strategy (which they're pushing this week in DC) is. Traditionally, the IIA's solution involves the government giving the biggest carriers huge deployment subsidies, while also reducing taxes on carriers. Given the government's history of failed accountability on this front, the IIA is simply asking for no-strings money. That's all the exaflood myth has ever been about. If you're not afraid yet, the IIA recently offered up this video aimed at convincing you the end is near. They don't make their sales pitch until 4:20, where they hint that "wise public policy" can save us all from the bandwidth bogeyman. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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 baineschile2600 ways to livePremium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | Solution ipv6 | |
|  |  | | Re: Solution lol? how does ipv6 have anything to do with this... | |
|  |  | | They want to control it is obvious. If they do not get what they want they will fire more workers so armagedon can eventully happen itself. It is so obvious f... morons from IIA | |
|  |  |  Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA | Re: Solution The solution is to regulate AT&T as a "dumb pipe" provider! | |
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 amungusPremium join:2004-11-26 America Reviews:
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·AT&T DSL Service
| think it's time for more coffee because this is insane.
not surprising at all that it's these people behind the fun hogwash here...
How they got from "intelligent" design proponents, to "very unintelligent" network design proponents, makes no sense. Maybe somebody likes to fund them, and they like to produce propaganda in return. | |
|  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Linksys! Reboot that MFer! | |
|  |  | | Re: Linksys! u give me the lulz | |
|  |  | | lulz  -- Are you part of the cattle? | |
|  |  knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN | LOL, what south park episode is that from, since all of them are online now?  | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Linksys! thanks Simba!
That was the funniest episode I've ever seen! | |
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2 edits | The whole thing is a scam The whole thing is a scam to get taxpayer money. Look at the automakers-who flew from Detroit to D.C. yesterday on THREE corporate jets-to ask for taxpayer money to bail them out from their own bad decisions.
The PERFECT example of how truly CLUELESS the heads of big business are. These IDIOTS didn't even learn from the AIG PR fiasco 'holiday' last month!
Now AT&T wants their share-and is threatenng to have 'rolling Internet blackouts' if they don't get it.
Who's next- Comcast? Time Warner? Verizon?
How much do you want to bet that if we had COMPETITION that all of this would be a red herring?
Unfortunately, the FCC under the Republicans made sure that THERE IS NO REAL INTERNET COMPETITION!
One MORE Bush mess for Obama to clean up! | |
|  |  | | Re: The whole thing is a scam Just look how well deregulation has worked on Wall Street and the banks. | |
|  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 | Man, no competition? Damn, then who are these NuVox, XO, Deltacom, Cavalier, Cox, TW Telecom, cBeyond, and Cogent guys I have customers telling they are getting quotes from daily. Must be imaginary! | |
|  |  |  nitzanPremium,VIP join:2008-02-27 kudos:2 | Re: The whole thing is a scam The US has no residential broadband competition. You typically have a choice between Comcast or AT&T. Which one is worse I'm not entirely sure.
There is no way for a new player to enter the game since the telco's and cable companies own the pipes. -- Nitzan Kon, CEO Future Nine Corporation | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: The whole thing is a scam I live in Denver and my only options are expensive Comcast or crummy Qwest for broadband internet. | |
|  |  |  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 | said by nitzan:The US has no residential broadband competition. You typically have a choice between Comcast or AT&T. Which one is worse I'm not entirely sure. There is no way for a new player to enter the game since the telco's and cable companies own the pipes. I'll agree with that, it is rather limited on residential Internet side. Though, while it is a huge money maker, it is only one part of the business, and basically only one product. | |
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1 edit | said by Mizzat:Man, no competition? Damn, then who are these NuVox, XO, Deltacom, Cavalier, Cox, TW Telecom, cBeyond, and Cogent guys I have customers telling they are getting quotes from daily. Must be imaginary! Yeah, there's competition-IF you want to shell out over 3 grand a month to buy an OC3! The average consumer, if they are lucky has TWO choices for broadband: Cable or DSL Even here, in the heart of Los Angeles, I have TWO broadband choices, Time Warner or AT&T. See, AT&T maintains a MONOPOLY on dry line DSL in their California operating area. | |
|  |  |  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 | Re: The whole thing is a scam OC3 cost a lot more than 3 grand, and I was refering to business services, lots of competition. Not enough profit for residential services for providers to come in, I guess. | |
|  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | Re: The whole thing is a scam said by Mizzat:OC3 cost a lot more than 3 grand, and I was refering to business services, lots of competition. Not enough profit for residential services for providers to come in, I guess. What a load of nonsensical BS. There MAGNITUDES more residential customers than OC3 ones so it would make a LOT MORE sense to invest - only if areas weren't held hostage by incumbent monopolies like Time Warner. -- [BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them. [/BQUOTE] | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 | Re: The whole thing is a scam said by kamm:said by Mizzat:OC3 cost a lot more than 3 grand, and I was refering to business services, lots of competition. Not enough profit for residential services for providers to come in, I guess. What a load of nonsensical BS. There MAGNITUDES more residential customers than OC3 ones so it would make a LOT MORE sense to invest - only if areas weren't held hostage by incumbent monopolies like Time Warner. Exactly, magnitude of customers, but low profit margin. That is what we call a barrier of entry into a market. It would take huge capital to cover enough customers to start making a decent profit, ergo, less competition. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | Re: The whole thing is a scam Another nonsese. It takes a lot LESS in fact, provided you're wiring up densely populated areas - but, of course, that would assume you are willing to compete.
Which is clearly NOT the case here, in the US.
CABLE INDUSTRY = DISGUSTING, PIECE OF SHIT MONOPOLIES, ANTI-EVOLUTION, GREEDY, USELESS CRAP COMPANIES -- [BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them. [/BQUOTE] | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 | Re: The whole thing is a scam said by kamm:Another nonsese. It takes a lot LESS in fact, provided you're wiring up densely populated areas - but, of course, that would assume you are willing to compete. Which is clearly NOT the case here, in the US. CABLE INDUSTRY = DISGUSTING, PIECE OF SHIT MONOPOLIES, ANTI-EVOLUTION, GREEDY, USELESS CRAP COMPANIES You clearly have no idea of the capital cost it takes to wire each house, even densely populated. Especially for a service that bills maybe $40. Unless you can right off the bat offer TV, phone, and other features, which add tremendously to the capital cost. Compared to business where you can make 3-8 times more off a single customer, and it is even more densely populated, i.e. buildings with multiple tenants, shopping centers, etc. where you'll sometimes have residential buildings, but not as many as those that are commercial. This is why there is plenty of competition for business, and mot much for residential. | |
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 |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY 1 edit | said by Mizzat:Man, no competition? Damn, then who are these NuVox, XO, Deltacom, Cavalier, Cox, TW Telecom, cBeyond, and Cogent guys I have customers telling they are getting quotes from daily. Must be imaginary! Have you born like this? There's no competition whatsoever in most big cities, not matter where you live when you are ordering cable tv, internet service etc.
Cable companies are the most disgusting PoS business monopolies, they should be squashed like a bug.
--
said by bicker:Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them. | |
|  |  |  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 | Re: The whole thing is a scam said by kamm:said by Mizzat:Man, no competition? Damn, then who are these NuVox, XO, Deltacom, Cavalier, Cox, TW Telecom, cBeyond, and Cogent guys I have customers telling they are getting quotes from daily. Must be imaginary! Have you born like this? There's no competition whatsoever in most big cities, not matter where you live when you are ordering cable tv, internet service etc. Cable companies are the most disgusting PoS business monopolies, they should be squashed like a bug. Not sure what "Have you born like this?" means, but I think you have mistaken what I was writing about. I was writing of business services. There is plenty of competition there. Services cost more per customer, thus bigger profits to be made with your investment. | |
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 koma3504AdvocatePremium join:2004-06-22 North Richland Hills, TX | Att Well if Att had lived up to its origanal deal with the F.C.C. they would be laying more Fiber to the house FTTH. And this would be a nonissue. | |
|  |  | | Geez
Maybe if all you freeloaders would stop using your internets so much, the pipes wouldn't clog and we wouldn't have to worry about the exaflood in the first place. -- OASAASLLS | |
|  |  fireflierCoffee. . .Need CoffeePremium join:2001-05-25 Limbo | Re: Geez Indeed. If we are to stop the pending bandwidth apocalypse, we should all significantly reduce our internet usage and increase our tithes to the great and benevolent network operators.
I suggest we stop processes for downloading software/firmware patches immediately and competely eliminate audio and video streaming. We should return to the days of feature light web pages and plain text email. -- Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | someone has way to much time on there hands | |
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 1 edit | immunity wasnt enough? Maybe if they didnt get immunity they wouldnt of rose back up to the surface like the turds they are, and come demanding things. I wonder if i block att ip address ranges how limited i would be? | |
|  LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Longport, NJ kudos:5 | Past may not be prelude
A lot of these predictions that the internet WON'T face much higher bandwidth demand is based on past statistics. But a paradigm break is in process. The past statistics can't recognize the tremendous growth of online high def video that is coming. Those predicting drastic growth may be more prescient than the statisticians looking backward. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|  |  IgnitePremium,VIP join:2004-03-18 UK 2 edits | Re: Past may not be prelude Likewise online streaming HD may be dramatically less than people predict, and in any case if AT&T cannot deal with it they should look at their residential offerings and amend them accordingly, rather than predicting some nonsense bandwidth apocalypse on the wider internet. Contrary to the apparent beliefs of AT&T there is an internet beyond their access and core network which is doing just fine.
I'd point to the growth of AmsIX - »www.ams-ix.net/technical/stats/ - between July and November of this year they saw a growth in utilisation of over 50%, and this was accomplished just fine. In the AT&T world such growth is unimaginable, yet there they are supplying this interconnection bandwidth. | |
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 AVonGaussPremium join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL 2 edits | Dumb... This is just dumb and unfortunately at the moment I can't even seem to formulate a polite response - which is a bit rare for me. Like an old CEO of mine once said about someone, AT&T just don't get it.
The proverbial "last mile" and the servers interfacing with the content will fail long before the backbone itself fails due to capacity issues. The US national backbone is the easiest portion to upgrade (comparatively) and a problem that even just blindly throwing money at will solve for many years to come. Finding efficient technology and means to deal with the amount of content (data), now that's a bit harder but manageable. Getting the majority of residential customer up to the "sweet spot" for connectivity (100 Mbps IMO), thats a bit harder and costlier.
Verizon seems to have figured this out, hell, even Comcast seems to have figured this out - maybe it's time for another new AT&T? This one seems a lot like the previous incarnation. | |
|  |  | | Re: Dumb... sounds like a great time to split them up. PacBell, SNET, NV bell, Ameritech, Southwestern Bell. and dont' forget we'd have to spin AT&T back into AT&T. and this time demand they are NOT the ISP they use instead use 3rd parties. They become the dumb pipe. | |
|  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: Dumb... agreed. AT&T needs to understand that their future is dumb pipe provider.
nationalize the infrastructure and pay AT&T nothing for their share. they owe us for pissing on the constitutional rights of every one of their customers. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Dumb... not just their customers but everyone. i'm not a customer and they pissed on mine if any of my data goes on their network.
i refuse to do business with them. | |
|  |  |  |  Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA | said by morbo:AT&T needs to understand that their future is dumb pipe provider. That's what they keep asking for so let them have it! | |
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 fireflierCoffee. . .Need CoffeePremium join:2001-05-25 Limbo | Math concept review? "According to Odlyzko, the current Internet growth rate of about 50% per year"
"The exponential explosion of content will persist"
50% growth per year is not exponential. . .
I'm not sure "exponential explosion" even makes grammatical sense. -- Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com | |
|  ZZink join:2002-06-16 Etobicoke | and the trend continues This is all because ISPs refuse to shell out cash to invest in new technologies and expend and upgrade infrastructure. Let them burn just like the auto sector. | |
|  1 edit | Message from the Death Star approaching sir! sdvsv | |
|  |  1 edit | Re: Message from the Death Star approaching sir! You know this picture could be right just like when comcast got caught traffic shaping and maybe they will unleash the exaflood.
You know obama has done said he will take down the group known as anonymous cough cough /b/ »blog.wired.com/defense/2008/11/u···a-3.html -- Are you part of the cattle? | |
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 Fluker join:2005-04-07 West Lafayette, IN | Is it just me or... Does it seem to anybody else that servers and not the connection are often to blame for bottlenecking? Almost every residential line is easy to max out these days but I've noticed that most pages that get overloaded respond quickly, but have back-end issues that end in a denial.
I don't claim to have the best perspective to comment on this though.. | |
|  |  | | Exaflood If your not ready BY NOW for a "exaflood", then get out of the business. If an ISP is really that "scared" about a fictions "exaflood" flood, then I believe that company should be taken out of business because they obviously can't see past their own greed. And if anyone believes in this "exaflood", then get off the internet now because your clogging the tubes!
Wait a minute, didn't people scream about the end of the world back in ancient times? Hows about the Y2K bug destroying all of our computers?....and isn't this considered terrorizing the public into thinking the internet is going to end aka being a terrorist? I really can't wait for the pro-consumers to get into the FCC to start slapping these bozo CEO's around. - "We want more money!" *slap* "We want less regulation!" *slap slap* "Can't we get a few dollars?" *slap slap slap* "I'm sorry, I'll goto my room." | |
|  | | 2012? So that's what Nostradamus was talking about when he predicted the "end of the world"... cool.
Now, who's the Anti-christ? (Some CEO perhaps?) | |
|  |  BorednessThe LurkerPremium join:2005-07-07 In Limbo 1 edit | Re: 2012? All CEO's are evil greedy little bastards so he must be one of them. The way things are going in this world today Armageddon seems like it's right around the corner.  | |
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 yuutomoThe Wonder KitterPremium join:2001-08-27 Missoula, MT | cry wolf... and in this case there are none, ever. | |
|  rolandeCertifiablePremium,Mod join:2002-05-24 Prosper, TX Reviews:
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| Broadband price wars to blame All the broadband price wars are to blame for the "so-called" bad economic condition of these providers. If they just charge a "fair" price for the access that could actually account for the required backbone capacity, then there would be no cause for alarm. There can't be an "Exaflood" if you haven't over-committed your own damn last mile networks without enough transit capacity. If you have over-committed, then the costing model to finance the required capacity is all screwed up. This is nothing but a simple economic problem.
All the broadband providers should be in the same or similar financial situation as far as funding core transit capacity is concerned as they have all slashed and burned their prices to the bone. So when performance gets shitty on Cable Company A because of an "Exaflood", customers might be willing to pay a little more to Telco B for access with better transit capacity or vice-versa.
What do you know...the free market economic model actually might work. Supply and Demand.
Now if the government in its infinite wisdom decides to regulate access to broadband services, then by all means the carriers should have the right to subsidies to implement those loss leader services. The argument that they can't afford the necessary core transit bandwidth to support their own customer base, however, is plain bullshit. They own all the contracts themselves and can set their own pricing like big boys. If they are stupid enough to provide unlimited bandwidth contracts to peering partners and content providers or broadband customers, then they deserve what they get coming to them. -- Scott, CCIE #14618 Routing & Switching Too bad those that know it all can't do it all. »www.thewaystation.com/techref/tech.shtml »blog.thewaystation.com/ | |
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| Time for another AT&T breakup Typical in AT&T fashion once they dominate they pull this crap. Consumers need to complain like they did in the past and break up AT&T again. If it wasn't for the pro business government we wouldn't have found ourselves in this mess. The day they cap me is the day I disconnect. | |
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