AT&T Hints At End Of iPhone Exclusivity Hopes network quality will be enough to keep users on board As we noted yesterday, AT&T had an explosive quarter, activating 3.2 million new iPhones, 40% of which were purchased by customers new to AT&T. While AT&T has been working to extend their exclusive iPhone distribution agreement with Apple, there's hints that AT&T is preparing for the deal to end. AT&T has traditionally believed it's network quality, not long term contracts, ETFs and iPhone fanaticism and exclusivity that's kept people using their network despite dropped calls and coverage issues. That theory may soon be tested. "Even if we lose the iPhone exclusivity, we're going to probably be the only ones that have a speed of 7.2 (Mbps) that these phones can work on," says AT&T's Ralph de la Vega, the word "probably" a reference to T-Mobile's 21 Mbps HSPA+ plans and the vague possibility of a T-Mobile-friendly iPhone. Fixing inconsistent 3G coverage, dropped call and congestion issues will probably be more important than being the fastest carrier for the time being, and AT&T continues to insist they're working on upgrading the network as quickly as possible. De La Vega insists dropped calls are down 12%.
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 | | In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphone | |
|  |  jtudorXm 60's On 6 FreakPremium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon said by Joe12345678:In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphone True, but you can place a sure bet that if exclusivity is gone, there will quickly be a CDMA iPhone on the market for Verizon, and others. That is one of the safest bets around.
The only spoiler is the upcoming Droid for Verizon.
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 ·Acanac
| Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon said by jtudor:said by Joe12345678:In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphone True, but you can place a sure bet that if exclusivity is gone, there will quickly be a CDMA iPhone on the market for Verizon, and others. That is one of the safest bets around. The only spoiler is the upcoming Droid for Verizon. No there won't. There is a reason why Verizon is pushing Android so hard right now : they know there is no way in hell Apple will ever make a CDMA iPhone.
As far as an LTE iPhone goes, it won't happen next year. Most likely is 2011 when there will be more then just 1 carrier with an LTE network around. Apple wants to SELL the iPhone, not produce a small number for an insignificant market.
Adi | |
| | | | | | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon said by adisor19:No there won't. There is a reason why Verizon is pushing Android so hard right now : they know there is no way in hell Apple will ever make a CDMA iPhone. As far as an LTE iPhone goes, it won't happen next year. Most likely is 2011 when there will be more then just 1 carrier with an LTE network around. Apple wants to SELL the iPhone, not produce a small number for an insignificant market. Adi Exactly, there is no reason for them to make a CDMA iPhone specifically for 1 carrier. CDMA is dead anyway, if anything the phone will come to T-Mobile in the US.
T-Mobile is really pushing there 3G, and they are going to have the fastest wireless network, faster then Verizon's LTE at launch. (21 Mbps vs. 6 - 8 Mbps).
Altho if T-Mobile wont give apple what it wants, then I think the phone would just stay on AT&T till someone comes around with a LTE network that has a high % of coverage. | |
| | | | | | | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon The major issue with Tmo 3g, it runs on an odd frequency band in the US. So apple would have to make a separate device just to work on Tmobile in the US.
Also, in the end, LTE has a much higher bandwidth rate (if memory serves me, up to about 300ish mbit down, 100ish mbit up), UMTS will never reach those speeds. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon said by jvanbrecht:The major issue with Tmo 3g, it runs on an odd frequency band in the US. So apple would have to make a separate device just to work on Tmobile in the US. Also, in the end, LTE has a much higher bandwidth rate (if memory serves me, up to about 300ish mbit down, 100ish mbit up), UMTS will never reach those speeds. Maybe, maybe not, a firmware change for T-mobile might be all thats needed. And I think they are having to some funky thing with the iPhone in china to get it to work on there 3G but i'm not 100% sure on that.
LTE does have a much higher bandwidth rate then HSPA, but the question is, how fast are carries going to let it get there.
Verizon said 6 - 8 Mbps at LTE launch, are they going to keep it that speed for 5 years? no one knows, Going by what T-Mobile said, there 3G will be faster then Verizons LTE, at least for a little bit. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |  GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| said by dlewis23:said by jvanbrecht:The major issue with Tmo 3g, it runs on an odd frequency band in the US. So apple would have to make a separate device just to work on Tmobile in the US. Also, in the end, LTE has a much higher bandwidth rate (if memory serves me, up to about 300ish mbit down, 100ish mbit up), UMTS will never reach those speeds. Maybe, maybe not, a firmware change for T-mobile might be all thats needed. And I think they are having to some funky thing with the iPhone in china to get it to work on there 3G but i'm not 100% sure on that. LTE does have a much higher bandwidth rate then HSPA, but the question is, how fast are carries going to let it get there. Verizon said 6 - 8 Mbps at LTE launch, are they going to keep it that speed for 5 years? no one knows, Going by what T-Mobile said, there 3G will be faster then Verizons LTE, at least for a little bit. To work with T-Mobile's 3G, a new radio would have to be installed, but that wouldn't be that hard.
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| | | | | | | | | A firmware change will do nothing, the radio unit inside the iphone is a hardware unit that only supports specific frequency ranges. For 3g to work on Tmobile, it would require a completely new radio. | |
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| | | | |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Wind Mobile up in canada (nationwide 3g) will be AWS. If they want an iphone and TMO wants an iphone, apple may be more likely to make an AWS version of the iphone. | |
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| | | | | | There is a reason when that carrier is the biggest in the nation, and they have by far the best network. If other phone makers can easily make a CDMA version of their phones I’m sure Apple is capable of doing it! | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
2 edits | Where do you guys come up with this notion that "there is no way in hell" that apple would make a CDMA phone?
Seriously... what is hard to understand? dead or not.., which it's not, CDMA has a VERY large customer base of users and they are in the millions.. millions x that many customers equates to large chunks of revenue.
It's been proven that customers don't always defect a carrier for a phone, and this site also proves that daily.
Further, there is not just 1 carrier that uses CDMA.. Sprint, Verizon, US Cellular.. shall I go on? Even with verizon shifting away, they will still have a few years in CDMA and customers that would be willing to stay for a CDMA phone at this time, which would outlast their upgrade and phase out plans as they migrate, eventually, to another technology. Verizon isn't going to turn on a dime just becuase of the iPhone; an already saturated market. (Many of those new iPhones are upgrades, by the way)
And, its not like it's some HUGE deal to develop a CDMA iPhone.. many phone makers have versions in various technologies.. anyone heard of the Blackberry? .. and it has a FAR larger share than the iPhone does in the market.
So really - ask yourselves, all, why you guys think that iPhone is some exception to the rule when it comes to having a phone that works on more than one single system.. if they invested just a small amount of money, I believe that apple knows they'd make their money back even with the CDMA market in this country.. so why don't you guys?
I know it's fun to sit here on BBR and act like an expert and that you all have the answers to everything, but the point is that regularly, many people here are proven wrong.. time and time again.
For the record, apple has been recruiting CDMA engineers.
... oh yea.. and I could care less if it's 7.5 or 21 mb, does anyone think the current iPhone can really take advantage of those speeds? ... hardly. I have 50 meg in my house and through WiFi it's still slow as a pig... Those nifty fast speeds they keep talking about are going to be more useful for mobile computers and POSSIBLY tether plans than they are the phone itself.. and, too, when they start pushing out more traditional VoIP based calling on their handsets..
oh yea again.. one more last thing.. don't forget that the iPhone was originally targeted to Verizon - a CDMA carrier.. so it's most likely they are pretty far ahead on the "planning" of a CDMA based iPhone. | |
| | | | | | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon 1. Yes, please continue listing your list of CDMA carriers.
2. Most are not upgrades, if you read the article earlier in the week, millions were new subscribers to AT&T's horrible network just for the iPhone.
3. Apple has recruited CDMA engineers for their upcoming projects (probably tablet/UMPC related).
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| | | | | | | | I never said there was no way in hell.. I said it was unlikely.
Sure, all that is really needed is a different radio and a driver change in the iphone for cdma to work..
Now Apple has to have 2 different devices made for them (by foxxcon I believe). The potential result may be an over production in CDMA phones which have limited use outside the US (yes there are millions of CMDA users, but thats the possibility is there).
There is of course the cost of paying someone to maintain 2 different lines of products.
Why, why bother spending all that additional money, when they can wait a few months longer, produce a single device that will work on all current and most likely future wireless network topologies... and not have to deal with a third device (the LTE one assuming they actually do start making gsm and cdma variants) in a year or 2 when everyone is pushing LTE. (Verizon already has 2 small test areas).
No one really knows at the moment, everyone is speculating, except people inside apple.
But from a cost/production standpoint over the long term, does it really make sense to produce 3 different devices, when they could produce a single device that works on all networks, and will most definitely maximize their profits | |
| | | | | | |  jsz0Premium
join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon Apple has about $30B in the bank. Whatever money they spend developing a CDMA iPhone to sell for a couple years is nothing compared to how much profit they will make. It also gets more customers onto the iPhone platform -- in a few years when LTE is widespread they will converge the devices again. | |
| | | | | | | Eek2121Lovin Verizon FIOS
join:2002-10-12
Newton, NJ Reviews:
 ·Service Electric..
| Actually, if Apple developed a phone that worked on both GSM and CDMA networks (similar to my Blackberry tour), then they could sell to any carrier they please. There aren't any large technical hurdles, and despite what you may think, CDMA is far from dead. Even as LTE rolls out in the next couple of years CDMA will not go away. CDMA EASILY has another 5 years left before any major carrier pulls the plug. Verizon and Sprint both have tens of millions of subscribers, which is a very large potential market base for apple, and one it can't afford to ignore forever. | |
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| | | | |  TweakPremium
join:2002-06-08
Oklahoma City, OK | I bet its not very hard to do at all . I bet apple even has a working prototype that could quickly be turned into a production model. | |
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| | | | | I disagree with that slightly, while they do not want to make a product for a small niche market, they probably do want to release an LTE based phone.
LTE is backwards compatable with GSM, UMTS, and CDMA2000.
What that means for Apple, is that they can sell an iphone that will work on any network in the US. In fact, It would work on any network on the planet (except for NTT Docomo in Japan, and probably a few others).
That makes good business sense for Apple, single device, works anywhere. My guess would be that you are right about the time frame, though it probably has more to do with tweaking the combination of the LTE hardware and battery life. Figure late 2010 early 2011 is my guess. | |
| | | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon I agree... it won't be until an LTE platform is developed and sold by Apple. On a global scale, I think that it may be at least until 2011 before they have enough, or they'll have to sell existing and an LTE model as they do with iPhone 3G + iPhone 3GS. | |
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| | | | | no way apple will make an cdma iphone??? Then why is Bell canada showing this?
»www.bell.ca/home/ | |
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| | | | | 2011, 4G/LTE iPhone on VZW...
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| | | | said by jtudor:said by Joe12345678:In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphone True, but you can place a sure bet that if exclusivity is gone, there will quickly be a CDMA iPhone on the market for Verizon, and others. That is one of the safest bets around. The only spoiler is the upcoming Droid for Verizon. I'd tend to agree. It's hard to imagine that Apple has that much of a problem with CDMA if one subscribes to the notion that they approached Verizon first with the idea of the iPhone.
It's certainly not a stretch to think that Apple already has protypes of a CDMA or more likely a CDMA/GSM/WCDMA version of the iPhone made up already. After all, despite being committed to the PowerPC architecture at least in public, they had OS X running on x86 years before switching over to Intel.
However, these Droid ads that VZW is running complicates matters. If they had just went on air and promoted the benefits of the phone in an of itself that wouldn't be too big of a deal. However, since they chose to go offensive, who knows what may happen. Teh Steve can't be happy with the iDon't stuff and I'm sure that he has a long memory. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by Joe12345678:In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphone But no 3G with TM on the iPhone. TMUSA HSDPA runs on a proprietary band in the USA. We will see a CDMA iPhone or LTE iPhone which will have a much larger customer base before we see a 1700 HSDPA iPhone. The LTE iPhone will have 700/1700 bands, both ATT and VZ plan to run LTE on their 700 and 1700 bands. | |
| | |  lordpufferSmoke Is In The AirPremium
join:2004-09-19
Rio Rancho, NM
kudos:1 | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon For some time you could easily purchase an iPhone on eBay (or on certain cell phone sales sites) that is unlocked and will work with T-Mobile....Probably a 3G one too.
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| | | | | | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon Nope. T-Mobile uses the 1700/2100 AWS band for 3G. There is no iPhone with this band configuration. While you can get an unlocked iPhone that will run on any GSM carrier, you will not get 3G service on T-Mobile with it. | |
| | | | | lordpufferSmoke Is In The AirPremium
join:2004-09-19
Rio Rancho, NM
kudos:1 | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon Was not sure about 3G, however, someone I know has an iPhone which he uses on the T-Mobile network.
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| | | | | | | | Re: In the us only tmobile or att works with the sim based iphon He can use it, but he's only getting EDGE data. | |
| | | | | | GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| said by lordpuffer:Was not sure about 3G, however, someone I know has an iPhone which he uses on the T-Mobile network. Thousands of people already run unlocked iPhones on T-Mobile/Any GSM carrier.
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| | That's a laugh. The only (and I mean ONLY) reason I switched from T-Mobile to ATT was for an iPhone (and yes, I know about using a hacked iPhone with T-M--not wife-friendly). I will drop the Death Star like a bad habit the second my contract is up. They suck worse than anything that has ever sucked before. | |
|  gballMaster YodaPremium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN | LMFAO!!! I can't help but laugh at this. I almost fell out of my chair from laughing so hard. | |
| | | As soon as iPhone exclusivity ends, users will go bye bye The ONLY reason that ATT has been doing so well is because of the iPhone. As soon as that ends, you can bet your ass that users will flock to T-Mobile in droves !
Adi | |
| | | | Re: As soon as iPhone exclusivity ends, users will go bye bye HAHAHA, that's the ENTIRE reason we switched our family plan to AT&T, cause i wanted the iphone, so the moment my contract is up, i'm jumping boats!, no second thought! i'll gladly take an unlock EDGE iphone for t-mobile after all this | |
| | Chaldo
join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI | Only reason? Um AT&T had more subscribers before the iPhone compared to any US carrier, now Verizon does because the bought of alltel, but yeah... | |
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| | ATT is horrible Bad Service, poor customer support, & no appreciation of loyal customers! I can't wait for another provider to have access to the iPhone. I will switch my service in a heart beat. | |
| | | happy here I doubt Verizon would be able to keep up with iPhone users either. 3.2 mil per quarter is HUGE. Heck, Verizon around here started to choke at 1mil per quarter back in '04.
No issues here with AT&T. Although I've noticed dropped calls seem to be up, but I hope they are just tweaking their network.
And T-Mo has even LESS coverage than AT&T. Been there, done that, never again. | |
| cacoPremium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK | What is cool today might not be a year from now. Android seems to be dropping a news phone a month. Yes the iphone is nice but I'm guessing that at the rate that new devices are coming out there will be some other phone to make up for loss iphone sales at ATT. Of course nothing is stopping Apple from making another killer device in next year either.
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| raffy616
join:2001-01-02
Jersey City, NJ
kudos:1 | ATT's improving in NYC I've been noticing less and less dropped calls in the NYC market. If I drive from NJ to Queens, my calls usually drop around 7-8 times. Now, I can make a call while driving from NJ to Queens without a single drop.
I've been noticing better and more stable speeds on their data service too. | |
| | glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY | Re: ATT's improving in NYC that's what he said. | |
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glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY | YES Bring the iPhone to Boost Mobile, MetroPCS, Virgin Mobile!!!!!! | |
| | | | Re: YES You _might_ see an iPhone on Virgin Mobile and MetroPCS, since they're CDMA, but it ain't gonna happen on Boost. Boost is iDEN, which is mediocre for voice and abysmal for data. To be honest, I think the only reason Boost is around is because Sprint has capacity on the iDEN network they got when they bought Nextel. That's a turkey I'm sure they'd like to be rid of. | |
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 JSYPremium
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY | Hah. I think it's probably a safe bet that whatever other carrier gets the iPhone, that carrier will be tested big time and I would expect a lot of the pitfalls and complaints that AT&T had.
That being said... what good is 7.2Mb/s when I can't even keep a steady signal? I keep seeing these speed numbers going up and being touted, but my network experience hasn't changed. It could just say 3G and run on EDGE and I probably wouldn't notice. | |
| | | I Hope Discounts Will Come Back I don't hate AT&T but I hate the way every discount I can get with AT&T has the "*except for iPhone" listed under it. I'm tired of AT&T singling out the iPhone from hardware and service discounts... so I hope if T-Moble gets it, it will drive down the cost of service..... | |
| | | app store Is verizon willing to deal with apple on appples terms though. remember apple went to verizon first and verizon said no.
Is verizon willing to let apple have its own store and let apple control what goes on the phones. | |
| | | | Re: app store I don't think this is 100% correct. If you remember with the 1st gen iPhone, Apple wanted a piece of your monthly service- something that no hardware provider has ever asked for.
I think this is what soured Verizon on the deal. Apple moved to AT&T and they said... "sure thing!".
Now it's clear that since the iPhone 3G, that is no longer the arrangement between AT&T and Apple- so I think Verizon would want some of the action, even if they did not profit from the sale of apps.
Since Verizon is touting their new Android phone as "open", I wonder how open the OS is going to be. I don't think Google would even let them have the OS for the phone if they planned to lock it down, but we will see! | |
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| | iphone iphone great. cell company. no | |
| | | | Re: iphone Based on what?
- A
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LETS GO METS! | |
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| | i'll take an iTouch and stick with my g1 for the phone
thank you. | |
| | | Secret lab... If apple had a secret lab cooking up intel macs in cupertino for the last 10 years, i'm sure they have it figured out with iPhone. I am guessing they will make a standard board & chipset, with firmware telling the phone which radio to use, or simply use "LTE".
- A
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| | | Not All AT&Ts Fault I don't think a lot of the issues surrounding the iPhone problems are AT&Ts fault. I just went to the U2 concert at the University of Phoenix stadium and my friend with an iPhone had a lot of issues. I have a Blackberry Bold and was able to text, surf the web, make calls, etc. My friend with the iPhone couldn't do anything. This doesn't point to a network issue. | |
| | | Not on VZW iPhone will never be on VZW. Ever. Period.
Why? Apple wants full control of the iPhone. VZW wants control over their phones. Thats a conflict and VZW will simply not budge. But will continue to bring out phones that are competition for the iPhone, such as HTC Imagio, Strom2, Chocolate Touch, etc. | |
| | | Interesting story I'm able to get an upgrade on my present phone and thought about going with the I-phone but Ive had ATT for almost five years and have heard about the great service and coverage of Verizon. My contract ends in Feb. So I'm holding off on an upgrade until then, I'm curious to see if the Droid can compete with the I-phone but I doubt that it will. So I'm in the decision of do I get a phone (I-phone) with great apps and so-so coverage or get a decent phone(Droid-Verizon) and have great coverage with few dropped calls. | |
| rjbied
join:2005-02-09
Chicago, IL | AT&T and iPhone in Chicago I was with AT&T when they were still Cingular. Part of my reason for having Cingular was their mobility in Europe. I live in Chicago and the AT&T service totally SUCKS here! It wasn't always this way, just the last year or so. I recently returned from Germany, Switzerland & Italy and my trusty AT&T Palm Treo GSM phone worked like a charm. But back home, I can no longer count on a signal in or near my home or in many other places in Chicago, period. I have many colleagues who also complain of the crappy service. I really wanted an iPhone, but in the end I switched to a Verizon HTC Imagio CDMA & GSM phone. I am back to making calls again. | |
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