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AT&T Launches Wireless POTS Replacement Service
AT&T Wireless Home Phone: $20 a Month
Telecompetitor directs our attention to the fact that AT&T rather quietly this week launched a new wireless-based landline replacement service rather-creatively named "AT&T Wireless Home Phone." The service simply plugs into an electrical outlet, and allows users to plug in a standard phone -- which will then get voice service via the AT&T mobile network. The device itself is $130, or free with a two-year contract. Service costs $20 a month for unlimited domestic calls, or $10 a month if you want it to pull from your existing AT&T service. The limited market launch comes as AT&T and Verizon shift their attention away from wireline to wireless. With the recent Nextwave acquisition, it seems likely that AT&T will eventually offer a wireless DSL-replacement service akin to Verizon's Home Fusion.
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en103
join:2011-05-02

1 edit

en103

Member

I was wondering

When AT&T / Verizon would do that.
They've been selling off POTS like rats sinking a fleeing ship.

The price is decent - $20/month unlimited or $10/month 'add a line' to existing wireless.

Only caveat gotta be somewhere where AT&T doesn't have POTS.
quote:
The offering, dubbed A&T Wireless Home Phone, became available in late July in “select domestic markets where we do not offer traditional landline service,” an AT&T spokesman told Telecompetitor today.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: I was wondering

ATT really hasn't sold anything. They're last buyout netted them a HUGE footprint.

VZ has been selling off their Potslines as they don't want them. instead their other company CellCo Partnership is actually bringing in the $$$$.

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

rebus9 to en103

Member

to en103
said by en103:

When AT&T / Verizon would do that.
They've been selling off POTS like rats sinking a fleeing ship.

The price is decent - $20/month unlimited or $10/month 'add a line' to existing wireless.

Only caveat gotta be somewhere where AT&T doesn't have POTS.

quote:
The offering, dubbed A&T Wireless Home Phone, became available in late July in "select domestic markets where we do not offer traditional landline service,"; an AT&T spokesman told Telecompetitor today.

Just give it time. Wherever they can replace regulated copper services with unregulated substitutes, it will happen.

Just follow the trail of money. (and regulatory loopholes)
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: I was wondering

asa they should be able to get away with dumping pots and moving it to a new technology. the copper lines are 60+ years old in most areas, and need to be replaced anyway. So why spend the $$$ and replace them when you can move those customrs to a wireless technology? I've been saying for YEARS that smart companies would get rid of the last mile networks and move to wireless. ITS CHEAPER and easier to maintain.

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

rebus9

Member

Re: I was wondering

said by 25139889:

get rid of the last mile networks and move to wireless. ITS CHEAPER and easier to maintain.

And UNREGULATED.

As an aside... I find it telling, that they claim to have a capacity crisis to justify putting caps on their "unlimited" data plans, yet turn around and try to push everything onto their wireless network.

Hmmm. As I said, follow the money.


25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: I was wondering

Nothing new. Ohio already has UNregulated voice services once its bundled with LD or anything else- and bundled means ON the SAME bill. VZ and AT&T asked the PUC that over a year ago and got it. It's the issue in other states as well. The same as they can pull their wireline services with a 90 day notice to the state PUC.
93388818 (banned)
It's cool, I'm takin it back
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

93388818 (banned) to rebus9

Member

to rebus9
There's no data in use with this device, it's voice only.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: I was wondering

the same as with Cellco's- it only powers Voice. And Sprint has one that is similar.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven to 25139889

Member

to 25139889
said by 25139889:

asa they should be able to get away with dumping pots and moving it to a new technology. the copper lines are 60+ years old in most areas, and need to be replaced anyway. So why spend the $$$ and replace them when you can move those customrs to a wireless technology? I've been saying for YEARS that smart companies would get rid of the last mile networks and move to wireless. ITS CHEAPER and easier to maintain.

BAD IDEA. I can easily see multiple cell towers getting overloaded if everyone switched to this.

Sure, replacing copper is a no brainer.. But we need to replace copper with.. FIBER! Having everything wireless is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the spectrum needed to handle this endeavor would be enormous.
ncbill
Premium Member
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC

ncbill

Premium Member

Re: I was wondering

Voice-only.

Plus I'm sure it's a compressed, low-quality codec.

Very little bandwidth to worry about.

My questions are : taxes, and can it back-feed a house's regular phone lines?

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David

Premium Member

Re: I was wondering

said by ncbill:

My questions are : taxes, and can it back-feed a house's regular phone lines?

if they made it the same as verizon's home connect box, it should be able to. Their home connect box looked no different than a ooma telo with an antenna on it.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus
join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Oh_No to SimbaSeven

Member

to SimbaSeven
said by SimbaSeven:

said by 25139889:

asa they should be able to get away with dumping pots and moving it to a new technology. the copper lines are 60+ years old in most areas, and need to be replaced anyway. So why spend the $$$ and replace them when you can move those customrs to a wireless technology? I've been saying for YEARS that smart companies would get rid of the last mile networks and move to wireless. ITS CHEAPER and easier to maintain.

BAD IDEA. I can easily see multiple cell towers getting overloaded if everyone switched to this.

Sure, replacing copper is a no brainer.. But we need to replace copper with.. FIBER! Having everything wireless is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the spectrum needed to handle this endeavor would be enormous.

Good idea.
It is cheaper to add another transmitter than to run copper wires.

I am sure this device will have a GPS lock just like with the cell repeater, or it will be locked into one cell tower only.
The whole point is they dont have to build up their entire mobile network to handle more mobile phones.
These will be fixed in one point, so they only have to expand 1 cell tower to service them. This is fixed point wireless not mobile.
I would not be surprised if the cost to run these wireless lines will be well under $1 a month over a 5 year period. They will get at least $19 profit per month per line.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

TheMG to SimbaSeven

Premium Member

to SimbaSeven
said by SimbaSeven:

Sure, replacing copper is a no brainer.. But we need to replace copper with.. FIBER! Having everything wireless is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention the spectrum needed to handle this endeavor would be enormous.

Agreed. Especially once you start talking about replacing DSL. The amount of wireless bandwidth (spectrum) required would be enormous unless they were to put cell sites at every city block. Might as well just run fiber everywhere.

Fiber is a high initial cost to build the infrastructure, but once it's in place the bandwidth is plentiful and dirt cheap.

Ralph63
@bellaliant.net

Ralph63 to SimbaSeven

Anon

to SimbaSeven
Theres going to be too much maintenance in fibre optics and they will probably be the hardest to find the defects. If you shine a light down a fibre optic and the light doesn't come out the other end it is broken. How do you replace it. They are far too tiny to take out mixed in a cable with possibly hundreds or even thousand of these fiber lines. better ways of transmitting across airways is better. You just need better towers and no operators and all. Think of air ways as walkie talkie systems. You go from person to simply by a dial or digital readout. If you dial the number 544-4103 a computer built in your phone or your own pc will look for this satellite say the 544 is the satellite then in will transmit to the person on this network. It's more complicated I know that this but it can be as simple as that. There really is no need for operators or telephone companies. We just need the government to put up a few satellites and we do the rest. No need for any telephone companies who fleece us like we are just born losers.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: I was wondering

Um.. Are you familiar with recent fiber technology? If there's a break in the line (or defect), they can find it rather quickly and can usually trace it to inches or less. Repairing it is easy too since most of the fibers in a fiber bundle have a color-coded jacket.

The main issue is spectrum. They want it all and the intelligent ones tell them to piss off. Would you like the entire spectrum to be utilized for phone service? Heck no. I like my OTA broadcasts, thank you.

As for "Walkie Talkie" systems, that's one particular frequency that's shared between everyone. If you get a few hundred on the same frequency, it's damn near impossible to talk *and* you get to hear everyone's conversation.

Wireless is *NOT* the future, as everyone thinks it is. Sure, it's convenient, but in the long run it won't be able to handle the traffic. As for satellite, are you at all familiar with technology? Do you realize the latency satellite has? I hope you like a 1-2 second delay in your conversation.

Replying to this post has given me a migraine. Better get some caffeine to ward it off.

alltechs
@ameritech.net

alltechs to 25139889

Anon

to 25139889
forget about wireline tech jobs......
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to rebus9

Premium Member

to rebus9
True. I wonder if they will start forcing people to the unregulated service like Verizon is doing.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: I was wondering

will only force in areas where they don't have minm. standards on POTs or give deals to switch.

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
Premium Member
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

firephoto to en103

Premium Member

to en103
Verizon probably made this secret deal with AT&T to come out first on this plan so they don't seem as scumbag themselves for deploying in all the areas they used to serve with landlines.

Also their price will be the same with different words to describe the level of service. And not collusion. Never. Not even close. Competition!
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: I was wondering

The real question is will Verizon and ATT compete with similar products in the same markets or will they simply target their 1996 breakup wired regions?
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: I was wondering

its national.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: I was wondering

Currently this product is only available for select areas. For availability, ordering and pricing information, please locate a store near you.

Their web site says different. Where did you get your information?
93388818 (banned)
It's cool, I'm takin it back
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

93388818 (banned) to en103

Member

to en103
I'd love one of these for the house. It would be very convenient.
chuckkk
join:2001-11-10
Warner Robins, GA

chuckkk to en103

Member

to en103
A decade or so ago, AT&T started replacing POTS service in parts of Napierville Ill with some sort of RF carrier link. Claimed that it would "improve service" The only thing I noticed was that the voice quality dropped. They refused to allow unhappy customers to switch back.

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David to en103

Premium Member

to en103
said by en103:

When AT&T / Verizon would do that.
They've been selling off POTS like rats sinking a fleeing ship.

The price is decent - $20/month unlimited or $10/month 'add a line' to existing wireless.

Only caveat gotta be somewhere where AT&T doesn't have POTS.

quote:
The offering, dubbed A&T Wireless Home Phone, became available in late July in “select domestic markets where we do not offer traditional landline service,” an AT&T spokesman told Telecompetitor today.

Verizon started out the same way with their home connect box. Karl even did the news article about it so he should know plenty about it. As time went on verizon expanded into other territories now anyone can get one in or outside of territory.
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

hmm

Thats actually not bad for say a senior or something. For me its not worth it because i already have something like 7k in roll over minutes. I very rarely call anybody.

JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

JimThePCGuy

MVM

Re: hmm

said by majortom1029:

Thats actually not bad for say a senior or something. For me its not worth it because i already have something like 7k in roll over minutes. I very rarely call anybody.

Provided the senior never needs reliable 911. Yea seniors probably don't want reliable 911. Drink some more of that AT&T Kool-Aid.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: hmm

I cry foul. There are certainly fringe wireless areas but with the exception of a dead cell phone battery, I don't see any reason why wireless 911 wouldn't be as reliable as wired. Perhaps the location information might not be as good but there's also the possibility that the wired database is wrong (it happens).

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

This is old news

They have been selling wireless home phone at the AT&T store at Holyoke Mall (Holyoke MA) for about 5-6 months now.

I had the home phone connect from VZW and I broke the contract as I got an alarm system and wireless home phones will not work with alarm dialers.

I went with Verizon landline for a few months and it was costing me $65 per month so I went back to Comcast for home phone since the alarm company said it did not make a difference (just as long as it is wired properly) and since Comcast offered a sweet deal on a triple play.

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

I would not trust my family's safety on a cheesy VoIP or landline replacement service like Vonage or Magic Jack. Either traditional phone service or a facilities based VoIP service fits the bill because they have Quality of Service standards and have battery backup.

They should have a warning on any VoIP or home phone replacement plan that it should not be relied on for emergency communications.

What really bothers me is that my neighbor has kids, has an inflatable swimming pool, and no home phone (cell only household). Imagine if one of the kids drowned (hope it does not happen) and they found their cell battery was dead or try telling a 911 dispatcher where they are located. 911 calls in this area are answered by the state police and transferred to the local jurisdiction. 911 calls from a wireline phone are answered by the responding jurisdiction.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: This is old news

alarms still dial out?

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Re: This is old news

Alarms do dial out unless you want to pay 3x as much for the hardware and 2x as much for the monitoring. My alarm company quoted me $545 to install a radio box (monitoring fees would still be the same as the alarm company uses it's own mesh network) but I decided just to go the Comcast Digital Voice route as they offered my a triple play bundle for about $25 more than my double play (internet and phone) vs $140 for the double play and another $65 per month for home phone with Verizon.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: This is old news

ADT quoted us only a few dollars more per month for wireless monitoring. I don't remember what the equipment charge was though.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned) to IowaCowboy

Member

to IowaCowboy
$199 install by ADT, and $45-49.99 per month depending on your area. All wireless and SIM based. can be reprogrammed by othe companies.

Vivint is a little more to install but they turn your home into a smart house.

So your more expensive really isn't when you factor in the basic package for monitoring is $20+ per month then your landline fee just for that of another $20+ with taxes depending on your area.

WiFiguru
To infinity... and beyond
Premium Member
join:2005-06-21
Seattle, WA

WiFiguru to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

Actually the devices have built in GPS to support 911 on exact location of the device... just like cell phones. If you made a 911 call in your house with a cell phone, they would know exactly which part of your house you are in because of GPS.

••••••••••••

digiblur
Premium Member
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana

digiblur to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

They have been selling wireless home phone at the AT&T store at Holyoke Mall (Holyoke MA) for about 5-6 months now.

I had the home phone connect from VZW and I broke the contract as I got an alarm system and wireless home phones will not work with alarm dialers.

I went with Verizon landline for a few months and it was costing me $65 per month so I went back to Comcast for home phone since the alarm company said it did not make a difference (just as long as it is wired properly) and since Comcast offered a sweet deal on a triple play.

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

I would not trust my family's safety on a cheesy VoIP or landline replacement service like Vonage or Magic Jack. Either traditional phone service or a facilities based VoIP service fits the bill because they have Quality of Service standards and have battery backup.

They should have a warning on any VoIP or home phone replacement plan that it should not be relied on for emergency communications.

What really bothers me is that my neighbor has kids, has an inflatable swimming pool, and no home phone (cell only household). Imagine if one of the kids drowned (hope it does not happen) and they found their cell battery was dead or try telling a 911 dispatcher where they are located. 911 calls in this area are answered by the state police and transferred to the local jurisdiction. 911 calls from a wireline phone are answered by the responding jurisdiction.

No way would I trust my alarm system on a wired phone line. Cell system is the only way to go for real security needs. Too easy for the crook to cut the line. The alarm may go off but no one gets called. It wasn't really more expensive per month, and was only an up front cost of like $200 or so. I've saved way more than that by not having a telephone line.

You must not keep up to date on E911 services as it sends the GPS coordinates of the phone. VoIP sends the address assigned to the account. And actually the cell E911 is more accurate as if someone had a large property the emergency response would know the farmer was out in the back barn instead of in the front house 300 yards away.

•••

jjoshua
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ

jjoshua

Premium Member

Only $20?

Sure... What's the cost after fees and taxes?
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103

Member

Re: Only $20?

probably $60 - just like POTS
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Only $20?

$60? Exaggerate much? My POTS bill works out to ~$26, nearly half of which can be blamed on the Government:

Phone company charges:
Residence-1 Party Flat Rate: $14.93

Taxes/Government Fees:
Federal Tax: $0.78
FCC Line Charge: $7.22
USF Recovery Charge: $1.13
State Gross Receipts Tax: $0.37
Sales Tax: $0.21
Telecom Relay Service Tax: $0.08
E911 Tax: $1.50

Total Taxes: $11.29 (43%)
Total Service: $14.93 (57%)

Total Bill: $26.22

Mind you, I don't include long distance in that as I rarely make long distance calls, and I found a low cost/no-monthly free (Google 'Telna') carrier for those. Nor do I pay for unnecessary features like call waiting or caller ID. My POTS line exists solely for emergencies and for close friends/family to contact us. Nobody else has or needs the number.

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT

Member

Drop Fit Replacement?

Will it work for fax machines and dial-up modems?

••••••
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr

Member

Been there done that..

Already have a similar solution.. Cost me around $48 in hardware and ~$6.60/mo.

Tracfone w double minutes, w376g($30) + 1 yr service(800-1000minutes)($80)
Siemens Gigaset One Blue Tooth gateway. $18.. (Officemax closeout)

I have text messaging when needed, caller logs, 7 day battery backup(cell phone).
All the features listed by At&t.. caller-id(numbers only), call waiting..

Plus the Gigaset one/(Xlink BTTN) links up to three cell phones to your home phones. Long distance+60 countries calling just uses normal air time.

I use Skype on my PC to dial toll free numbers.. (no charge)..others 0.02$ min..

JigglyWiggly
join:2009-07-12
Pleasanton, CA

JigglyWiggly

Member

Re: Been there done that..

but what if a nuke goes off
your phone won't work ;'(
93388818 (banned)
It's cool, I'm takin it back
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

93388818 (banned)

Member

Re: Been there done that..

telco switches are electronic now - if a nuke goes off, nobody's phone will work
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Verizon HAS been doing it

Verizon has been doing this for over a year now. I utilize it so I have a "throw away" phone number to give people.

JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

JimThePCGuy

MVM

All the disadvantages of wireless

3.5 hrs talk time during power outages? Crappy 911. Yea, sign me up. NOT!

••••••••
othas3
join:2002-07-15
Los Angeles, CA

othas3

Member

I live in an AT&T (formerly Pacific Bell) Hood....

...and I got one of those Verizon things at the beginning of the year...just to have. I still have my AT&T landline because I'm old and set in my ways and I'll never giveup my landline....and my Uverse 24x DSL...and my internet TV....and my FAX machine...and my alarm.
moes
Premium Member
join:2009-11-15
Cedar City, UT

moes

Premium Member

landline

Had my landline for 20 years now, same number and all, they think I am willing to get rid of it, nada gona happen.

•••••
decifal7
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

decifal7

Member

wish

I would like it being they have copper here already if they would offer landline pots without all the damn fee's attached.. After the initial rape, I might as well have a prepaid phone :-/

tmh
@comcastbusiness.net

tmh

Anon

Who would want this?

I can't remember the last time I actually used my landline. Come to think of it, I really should cancel it and save a few bucks.

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT

Member

And Other Features

Ok, so it will do 3-way calling and call waiting, and voicemail.

Distinctive Ring?
Call-forward Busy (to a different number if busy)?
Call-forward No-Answer (to an entirely different number)?
Terminal Hunting?
Periodic Auto-Redial?

Nah............
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Profitable

AT&T clearly isn't getting rid of copper anytime soon, but they want to offer a highly profitable service, as voice uses little network capacity, and yet brings in money. Customers should just get Ooma if they are really that tied to having a home phone.

ThatFnGuy
@sbcglobal.net

ThatFnGuy

Anon

Dang

Had I known this was news, I could have tipped you guys off to this about a month or so ago. It really seems like one of the better things AT&T is doing. This service cannot be added to the new Mobile Share plans. Speaking of which, I'm not fond of those plans.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Why is it so hard?

For people to call it POTS? It's not a plural of POT.
Falcon89
join:2012-11-03
Carlisle, PA

Falcon89

Member

Re: Why is it so hard?

Plain Old Telephone Service
PastTense
join:2011-07-06
united state

PastTense

Member

Copper is Used for DSL Too

These copper lines are used for DSL too, not just POTS.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: Copper is Used for DSL Too

not when those networks will go away as well.

toro
join:2006-01-27
Scarborough, ON

toro

Member

Use the SIM in a regular cell ?

Does the device use a SIM card ? (I assume it does)
So what's stopping a user take it out and put it in a regular cell phone to get unlimited calling for $20 a month ?
Pair Gain
join:2002-12-23
Washington

Pair Gain

Member

Re: Use the SIM in a regular cell ?

• The SIM card provided with your Wireless
Home Phone is intended for use only in your
specific Wireless Home Phone device and
can not be used in a mobile handset.

compuguybna
join:2009-06-17
Nashville, TN

compuguybna

Member

PLUS taxes and fees of about $12!

Don't forget to add the rip-off taxes of about $12.00 in addition to the service amount.

This is the main reason we dumped an AT&T land line in the first place.

$14 of taxes on a 12.50 bill. TOTALLY INSANE.

If this is coming off a cell tower, it will have the same f****** taxes a cell phone encounters.
treyatl2006
join:2012-01-26
Atlanta, GA

treyatl2006

Member

I have Verizon Wireless At Home Service

I got the Verizon Wireless version about 8 months ago.. Its cheaper the At&t phone service because it comes with everything including long distance for $20. At&t cost about $50. It works well. There are a few gripes like dialing. You have to dial the number quick or else it would dial an incomplete number prematurely. But I got around that by dialing the number first on my cordless phone and then TALK. Instead of pressing TALK, waiting for the dial tone, and then dial the number.
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