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AT&T Locks Down Android Tight
Did you expect something different?
Earlier this month, AT&T launched their first Android-based smartphone the Motorola Backflip, and many were annoyed (but unsurprised) to learn of a few Ma Bell "modifications." In addition to replacing Google with Yahoo search, the device came complete with AT&T bloatware that couldn't be removed, and couldn't run unsigned applications (running contrary to the whole point of the Android OS). Now as AT&T prepares to launch the first Android-powered Dell smartphone (the Dell Aero), Phone News confirms with Dell that the Aero also won't allow unsigned applications:
quote:
Click for full size
To Google's credit, the chief developer of Android wants no part of these restrictions, and is refusing to put the "with Google" branding on Backflip or Aero. Still, legal questions loom large for device manufacturers willing to consent to these hinderances (sic). As Android touts a gatekeeper-less universe of open application development, these changes make it questionable if users should be notified pre-purchase about said hinderances (sic).
AT&T showed off the Aero at CTIA this week but apparently wouldn't let the press play with it for longer than a few moments, lest they notice AT&T's special "enhancements" to the device. Of course AT&T-imposed restrictions on a platform designed to be (largely) open does nothing to stop the eventual migration to truly open mobile platforms, though it does act to undermine the AT&T brand. Of course you can now buy a Nexus One from Google for $529 (but not unsubsidized through AT&T), though that effectively creates a system where real application freedom becomes a luxury option.
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cp
Premium Member
join:2004-05-14
Wheaton, IL

cp

Premium Member

Poor AT&T Subscribers

I do honestly feel bad for them.

momcat1
No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY

momcat1

Member

Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers

I feel just as bad for the poor Verizon subscribers. It's really just same sad story, no matter who your provider is.
Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA

Jonbo298

Member

Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers

Actually Verizon is the opposite of at&t right now when it comes to Android. The DROID has basically no restrictiond, along with the Droid Eris, etc.

Now for dumbphones, it's a different story of course...

cp
Premium Member
join:2004-05-14
Wheaton, IL

cp

Premium Member

Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers

Not to mention, AT&T's coverage is pretty awful. Terrible here in Chicago.

momcat1
No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY

momcat1

Member

Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers

That really depends on where you need to use the service. I've personally been in enough places where either ATT or Verizon was great and the other was terrible.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx to Jonbo298

Premium Member

to Jonbo298
That's only because Verizon is desperately trying to compete with iPhone.

Previously, Verizon was the king of crippling features out of phones.

Cingular used to be the most lax. The tethering software would be available OOTB. Some phones weren't even locked.

AT&T is headed in a very bad direction. iPhone exclusivity really needs to end.

GoD of KaOs
Agent of KaOs
join:2001-01-29
Chatsworth, CA

GoD of KaOs to Jonbo298

Member

to Jonbo298
said by Jonbo298:

Actually Verizon is the opposite of at&t right now when it comes to Android. The DROID has basically no restrictiond, along with the Droid Eris, etc.

Now for dumbphones, it's a different story of course...
I was actually pretty shocked that Verizon didn't lock down their android phones.

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

1 recommendation

ropeguru

Premium Member

AT&T

Can go pack sand.....

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

Why have a cell phone again?

I hate to say it whats the point of having a phone if it SO locked down for? SHOW? .

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Why have a cell phone again?

said by hayabusa3303:

I hate to say it whats the point of having a phone if it SO locked down for? SHOW? .
So locked down?? They still have access to over 30,000 apps in the Google Android app store. Just not to Android apps not in the Android store.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Why have a cell phone again?

said by FFH5:

So locked down?? They still have access to over 30,000 apps in the Google Android app store. Just not to Android apps not in the Android store.
Had Apple dealt fairly with app developers and subscribers, I don't think people would be as upset in this case. However, there is no denying that Apple has been capricious in how it approves, denies, and even yanks previously-approved apps from its app store, often with no explanation. And there is also the feeling that AT&T has had a hand in this process, especially with the Google Voice app fiasco.

There's also the issue of fairness. It's MY device, damnit, so it should be MY choice how I use it. How would you feel if you could only install software on your computer that had been approved by your OS vendor? If Microsoft had such a setup with Windows, and if they ran it like Apple runs its app store, there would be antitrust lawsuits out the wazoo. Hell, MS has already said that Windows Phone 7 will be locked down this way, and Mozilla, apparently sensing that Firefox would never be granted approval, has stopped development of it for that platform. That is not good news for the mobile device market. Whether or not you use or even like Firefox, having a situation where one company exercises veto power over another's software is troubling.
Nightwchtr
join:2001-09-10
Centreville, VA

Nightwchtr

Member

Re: Why have a cell phone again?

Thats why I have linux on my machines
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch

Member

Re: Why have a cell phone again?

said by Nightwchtr:

Thats why I have linux on my machines
Good point. However, this brings another issue to mind. Some smartphones out there, such as the Moto Milestone, have their bootloaders locked so you can't install another OS, even another version of Android. With computers, of course, the situation is different, but there's no technical reason such a limitation couldn't be built into them as well. Fortunately, the industry hasn't gone that route, but there's nothing stopping it from happening. I could see a situation where, for example, MS partners with a PC vendor whereby the vendor sells a computer for a very low price. The catch would be that you would pay a monthly fee, say, $19.99, for the use of a full suite of MS software, including any updates that would become available. You'd be under a contract for a certain amount of time, after which time you were free to do whatever you liked with the computer. However, the OS would be set up so you could only install approved software from an app store, which MS would control, and, just in case you figured you'd just wipe the OS and install something else, the hardware would be designed to only boot a digitally-signed OS, specifically, the one already installed.

Personally, I'd never buy into something like this, but I bet there are people who would, and, unfortunately, if enough did, the industry as a whole could shift in that direction.

onecsguy
@nts-online.net

onecsguy

Anon

Re: Why have a cell phone again?

AHHHH dont give them ANY ideas!!! lol

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue to hayabusa3303

Premium Member

to hayabusa3303
said by hayabusa3303:

I hate to say it whats the point of having a phone if it SO locked down for? SHOW? .
Yup, for show only.
dplantz
join:2000-08-02
Bradenton, FL

dplantz

Member

A&T Android Lockdown

I don't see the point of locking Android on ATT. I have an iphone that I love except for the lack of user replaceable battery. I use this phone as my primary phone and wish I could swap batteries. I would like a non locked down android phone as well. I am considering a line with Tmobile or Verizon with an Android phone. Its hard to run a home business with a dead iphone on the go. I have an external battery pack for the iphone, but that is not an idea solution.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: A&T Android Lockdown

Torrenting on Android. VOIP on Android. etc

gigahurtz
Premium Member
join:2001-10-20
USA

gigahurtz to dplantz

Premium Member

to dplantz
said by dplantz:

I don't see the point of locking Android on ATT. I have an iphone that I love except for the lack of user replaceable battery. I use this phone as my primary phone and wish I could swap batteries. I would like a non locked down android phone as well. I am considering a line with Tmobile or Verizon with an Android phone. Its hard to run a home business with a dead iphone on the go. I have an external battery pack for the iphone, but that is not an idea solution.
I agree that's frustrating. Have you tried the Incase Slider with added battery?
dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Crystal Lake, IL

dfxmatt to dplantz

Member

to dplantz
AT&T doesn't want people actually using the phones they purchased.

Or have you forgotten the iphone "we can't handle the data usage!" situation?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?

Maybe, and I am only saying MAYBE, this is a security measure by AT&T. By only allowing apps from AT&T and the official ANDROID store, they have made sure that all apps are at least moderately checked for malware.

By not allowing unsigned apps delivered outside the Android store, they lessen the opportunity for cellphones on their system from being affected by malware and also from having their network affected by malware.

Android developers page says apps must be SIGNED to be installed. »developer.android.com/gu ··· ing.html
The important points to understand about signing Android applications are:

* All applications must be signed. The system will not install an application that is not signed.
So, if I read that page right, AT&T is well within Android Guidelines to refuse to allow UNSIGNED apps to work. If you are running UNSIGNED apps then that means the phone was hacked.
FrryMnstr
join:2002-08-06
Lake Orion, MI

FrryMnstr

Member

Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?

Actually in order to re-install apps saved to an SD card I have to turn on the unsigned app's option. So I would think this could prove a problem for those poor souls....

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?

said by FrryMnstr:

Actually in order to re-install apps saved to an SD card I have to turn on the unsigned app's option. So I would think this could prove a problem for those poor souls....
I wonder if they can be flashed with 3rd party builds? One of the first things I did with my G1 nearly a year ago was put on a JesusFreak build, then cupcake prior to it's general availability release, and now keep updated on the latest stable CyanogenMod build.

greg
Greg
Premium Member
join:2003-05-30
Louisville, KY

greg to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
"unsigned" is a canard; all apps have to be signed to run on Android. What is correct is that the option that is standard in Android to be "permitted" to install apps from sources other than the market (on your phone) is not present on any AT&T Android handset yet.

However, you can still manually install non-market apps using adb (at least you can on the Backflip,) so any 'security' rationale is bupkis, or else they wouldn't permit that either.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?

said by greg:

"unsigned" is a canard; all apps have to be signed to run on Android. What is correct is that the option that is standard in Android to be "permitted" to install apps from sources other than the market (on your phone) is not present on any AT&T Android handset yet.

However, you can still manually install non-market apps using adb (at least you can on the Backflip,) so any 'security' rationale is bupkis, or else they wouldn't permit that either.
Isn't there one OFFICIAL Google-run Android market for all approved Android apps and that are available for all Android phones? And the "other than market" apps haven't been approved for the Android store?

Are you saying there are separate official Android markets for each ISP(TMO, Verizon, AT&T, etc?) and phone vendor?
Mutiny32
Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO

Mutiny32 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
That guideline is in a legal gray area at best. Google does not own Linux and thus cannot make such requirements unless the software is installed on a non-GPL, proprietary piece extension to Linux itself. I understand that Google has proprietary code in Android, but the vast majority of the rest of it is covered under the GPL.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?

Google has trademark rights on the word Android. Same story with Mozilla.

»www.linux.com/archive/feed/57675

If Google was smart, if you don't meet Google's platform requirements, you can't call the device "Android".

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?

No shit?

Lt. Commander Data's gonna be PISSED!
Expand your moderator at work
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

well

You could always buy an unlocked phone not from AT&T.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: well

said by brianiscool:

You could always buy an unlocked phone not from AT&T.
No need. Just wait for xda developers to come out with a custom ROM.

Betoboo
@sbcglobal.net

Betoboo

Anon

AT&T is the worst

Yes, I have a Nexus One i bought for $530 from Google. If i sell this and go with an AT&T Nexus One, I will also be buying it directly from Google. Maybe its something in Google's favor.
MRCUR
join:2007-03-09
Lancaster, PA

MRCUR

Member

Re: AT&T is the worst

I don't get your point. AT&T doesn't sell the Nexus One directly. In fact, no one sells the Nexus One directly other than Google themselves.

Cjaiceman
MVM
join:2004-10-12
Castle Rock, WA

Cjaiceman to Betoboo

MVM

to Betoboo
I have the AT&T version of the Nexus One and love it. I really like the fact that I know AT&T has NEVER had their hands on it (other than a SIM card).
InfinityDev
join:2005-06-30
USA

InfinityDev

Member

full disclosure

As long as full disclosure is given, which it rarely is in circumstances like this, I don't have a problem with AT&T wanting to neuter their phones.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: full disclosure

said by InfinityDev:

As long as full disclosure is given, which it rarely is in circumstances like this, I don't have a problem with AT&T wanting to neuter their phones.
And to call a phone neutered with the availability of over 30,000 apps is misusing the term neutered.
dandin1
join:2008-05-27

dandin1

Member

Re: full disclosure

It is a computer on which I cannot run my own code without corporate approval. Neutered doesn't go far enough in describing this situation.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Net neutrality 101

If you can't block what you want/don't want at the network level,
block it at the OS/handset level.

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

hmmmm....

I have ATT, and use my own phones, don't use their phones, and internet for that reason,haven't renewed contract in 5 years, where I live and work, ATT's service is the best, which isn't saying much. As some stated "the can go # sand"
.

•••
Mutiny32
Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO

Mutiny32

Member

They just don't get it...

$100 says Apple has a lot to do with this.

It's going to be all of a week (if that) before the phones are rooted and AT&T's whole scheme goes down the drain.

Why do these companies keep performing this exercise in futility by wasting time and money locking down these sort of things when it's fully known that it will be rendered useless in a matter of days if not hours? Just stop it already.

•••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

VOTE WITh YOUR WALLET!

Just don't buy it... let it collect dust in the stockrooms and have AT&T take a bath on them that they'll either have to fix this issue or use them as landfill!

•••

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!

There has to be a way for developers to create and test their application designs. I would assume one could install an SDK and use commands that would bypass this lock down.
kathi17
join:2009-03-18

kathi17

Member

Re: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!

said by jmn1207:

There has to be a way for developers to create and test their application designs. I would assume one could install an SDK and use commands that would bypass this lock down.
Yes, you should be able to install the SDK on you computer and use ADB to install the apps, but the average user isn't going to do this.
RemyL75
join:2001-06-07
Chicago, IL

RemyL75

Member

Re: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!

said by kathi17:

Yes, you should be able to install the SDK on you computer and use ADB to install the apps, but the average user isn't going to do this.
Actually, there is some restriction is even getting ADB on the Backflip and using it to install apps.
MTU
Premium Member
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

MTU

Premium Member

I wonder...

if there will be any VOIP apps.

jarablue
Always be true to yourself
join:2001-06-11
Worcester, MA

jarablue

Member

What a joke

ATT wants to sell you a phone and then have you not use it but yet pay $$$ them for what? Crap?

ATT is a joke of a network. I hope no one buys the phone with so many restrictions. What's the point really? ATT should milk the iphone for all it's worth.

Their plans are expensive and they don't want you to use the network.

Thanks but no thanks.
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned)

Member

Re: What a joke

said by jarablue:

ATT wants to sell you a phone and then have you not use it but yet pay $$$ them for what? Crap?

ATT is a joke of a network. I hope no one buys the phone with so many restrictions. What's the point really? ATT should milk the iphone for all it's worth.

Their plans are expensive and they don't want you to use the network.

Thanks but no thanks.
ATT and Verizon both. Here you are now connected to the net. is a wonderful and free to do as you want place. I am sure you heard of it. Said in fine print or low voice "Our version of it. But you will never notice the difference sucker. "

momcat1
No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY

momcat1

Member

no sense buying devices from any of the carriers

I have not bought a device from ATT in several years, and have no intention of doing so in the future. That said, the service works well, and since I bought my own device from somewhere else, ATT can't control what I install on it. I don't need them 'worrying' that I will install something bad on my phone - I'm a big kid now, I can take care of my own devices, thank you very much.

BTW, in case you haven't looked recently, like in the last seven years or so, Verizon is no prize package either. Same fun and games, different channel. For those who do not educate themselves, they will be subjected to a lot of FUD and pay through the nose for it, no matter which provider you're with.

It's sad to see that developers are actually trying to create neat devices with innovative features, but the service providers just want to squash the new stuff and make the devices as dumb as the old ones. All because they might miss a few pennies and prevent customers from running in the other direction.
kathi17
join:2009-03-18

kathi17

Member

Re: no sense buying devices from any of the carriers

I don't want to sound like a T-Mobile fanboy, but for those who have coverage, T-Mo and an HTC phone are pretty a pretty good match. T-Mo doesn't add a a lot of garbage to their phones, (the Motorola phones have Moto garbage on them though), and the HTC phones are easily hacked. T-Mo even provides a forum on their site for hacking. All they do is warn you that it voids your warantee. There is a very active community of hackers there. Even the moderators hack their phones. Both T-Mobile and HTC are active with the Android devs on twitter.

It's all very friendly, and no matter how you feel about T-Mo, you have to give them credit for being so open.

momcat1
No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY

momcat1

Member

Re: no sense buying devices from any of the carriers

Yup, no T-Mo here.

Wait and see. T-Mo will get on the bandwagon as soon as they increase subscribers.

tuaris
You Clicked on the Apple
join:2001-10-19
Naples, FL

tuaris

Member

I Think Apple has something to do with this.

I Think Apple has something to do with this.

heat84
DSLR Influencer
join:2004-03-11
Delray Beach, FL

2 edits

heat84

Member

They'll be unlocked in no time

Don't worry. Like jail breaking iPhones, someone will unlock these PDQ. Of course most people won't have the skills to do it to their phone, if they even know about it.

Ioweyou
@comcast.net

Ioweyou

Anon

Good for Google

Good for Google. Don't take their crap. Google could buy ATT for breakfast toast if they wanted. ATT is just the worse company in the universe and just keeps making the rope around their neck tighter and tighter.
decifal7
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

decifal7

Member

sad

It is truely sad when a third world country like Kuwait has better cell phone plans than we do.. Phones there are unlocked, network swappable and following the unlocked some more.. Your free to install whatever you want without fear of the phone provider retalliating against you.. Why? They know they have TRUE competition in the market and the government there is soo rich, they can't buy them off to put in rules "protecting" their customers from terrorist activity's...

Our country will fall in the name of greed one day.. And most will be too ignorant to even realise it..

oh_really
@uk.net

oh_really

Anon

Re: sad

Another reason why is that the US is unlike most countries in that it uses several cellular standards on different bands compared to the rest of the world.

Compare this to pretty much all of Europe - GSM or UMTS, on 900/1800/2100. This means that I can not only switch from one UK network to another with ease, I can do the same if I visit France (just buy a local pre-paid SIM). This was, after all, the entire point of the GSM standard.

Competition / regulation is the other aspect - we have 5 networks covering pretty much the same area. Except for the iPhone, they compete heavily on plans and phones.
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