 | | Poor AT&T Subscribers I do honestly feel bad for them. | |
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 |  momcat1No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY | Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers I feel just as bad for the poor Verizon subscribers. It's really just same sad story, no matter who your provider is. | |
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| | Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA | Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers Actually Verizon is the opposite of at&t right now when it comes to Android. The DROID has basically no restrictiond, along with the Droid Eris, etc.
Now for dumbphones, it's a different story of course... | |
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| | | | | Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers Not to mention, AT&T's coverage is pretty awful. Terrible here in Chicago. | |
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| | | | momcat1No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY | Re: Poor AT&T Subscribers That really depends on where you need to use the service. I've personally been in enough places where either ATT or Verizon was great and the other was terrible. | |
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| | | |
| | | | | said by Jonbo298:Actually Verizon is the opposite of at&t right now when it comes to Android. The DROID has basically no restrictiond, along with the Droid Eris, etc. Now for dumbphones, it's a different story of course... I was actually pretty shocked that Verizon didn't lock down their android phones.
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"I have taught you many ways to kill a man. Flesh that burns, bones that break... But to break a man's spirit... Is to truly destroy him!"
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 ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA |  AT&T
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| | Why have a cell phone again? I hate to say it whats the point of having a phone if it SO locked down for? SHOW? . | |
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| |
| | | | Re: Why have a cell phone again? Had Apple dealt fairly with app developers and subscribers, I don't think people would be as upset in this case. However, there is no denying that Apple has been capricious in how it approves, denies, and even yanks previously-approved apps from its app store, often with no explanation. And there is also the feeling that AT&T has had a hand in this process, especially with the Google Voice app fiasco.
There's also the issue of fairness. It's MY device, damnit, so it should be MY choice how I use it. How would you feel if you could only install software on your computer that had been approved by your OS vendor? If Microsoft had such a setup with Windows, and if they ran it like Apple runs its app store, there would be antitrust lawsuits out the wazoo. Hell, MS has already said that Windows Phone 7 will be locked down this way, and Mozilla, apparently sensing that Firefox would never be granted approval, has stopped development of it for that platform. That is not good news for the mobile device market. Whether or not you use or even like Firefox, having a situation where one company exercises veto power over another's software is troubling. | |
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| | | | | Re: Why have a cell phone again? Thats why I have linux on my machines  | |
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| | | | | | Re: Why have a cell phone again? said by Nightwchtr:Thats why I have linux on my machines Good point. However, this brings another issue to mind. Some smartphones out there, such as the Moto Milestone, have their bootloaders locked so you can't install another OS, even another version of Android. With computers, of course, the situation is different, but there's no technical reason such a limitation couldn't be built into them as well. Fortunately, the industry hasn't gone that route, but there's nothing stopping it from happening. I could see a situation where, for example, MS partners with a PC vendor whereby the vendor sells a computer for a very low price. The catch would be that you would pay a monthly fee, say, $19.99, for the use of a full suite of MS software, including any updates that would become available. You'd be under a contract for a certain amount of time, after which time you were free to do whatever you liked with the computer. However, the OS would be set up so you could only install approved software from an app store, which MS would control, and, just in case you figured you'd just wipe the OS and install something else, the hardware would be designed to only boot a digitally-signed OS, specifically, the one already installed.
Personally, I'd never buy into something like this, but I bet there are people who would, and, unfortunately, if enough did, the industry as a whole could shift in that direction. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Why have a cell phone again? AHHHH dont give them ANY ideas!!! lol | |
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|  GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| said by hayabusa3303:I hate to say it whats the point of having a phone if it SO locked down for? SHOW? . Yup, for show only.
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My Blog 2.0 | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: A&T Android Lockdown Torrenting on Android. VOIP on Android. etc | |
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|  gigahurtzPremium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL | said by dplantz:I don't see the point of locking Android on ATT. I have an iphone that I love except for the lack of user replaceable battery. I use this phone as my primary phone and wish I could swap batteries. I would like a non locked down android phone as well. I am considering a line with Tmobile or Verizon with an Android phone. Its hard to run a home business with a dead iphone on the go. I have an external battery pack for the iphone, but that is not an idea solution. I agree that's frustrating. Have you tried the Incase Slider with added battery? | |
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| | | AT&T doesn't want people actually using the phones they purchased.
Or have you forgotten the iphone "we can't handle the data usage!" situation? | |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
2 edits |  Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store?
By not allowing unsigned apps delivered outside the Android store, they lessen the opportunity for cellphones on their system from being affected by malware and also from having their network affected by malware.
Android developers page says apps must be SIGNED to be installed. »developer.android.com/guide/publ···ing.html
The important points to understand about signing Android applications are:
* All applications must be signed. The system will not install an application that is not signed. So, if I read that page right, AT&T is well within Android Guidelines to refuse to allow UNSIGNED apps to work. If you are running UNSIGNED apps then that means the phone was hacked.
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NCAA® March Madness on Demand® | |
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| | | Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store? Actually in order to re-install apps saved to an SD card I have to turn on the unsigned app's option. So I would think this could prove a problem for those poor souls.... | |
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| |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store? said by FrryMnstr:Actually in order to re-install apps saved to an SD card I have to turn on the unsigned app's option. So I would think this could prove a problem for those poor souls.... I wonder if they can be flashed with 3rd party builds? One of the first things I did with my G1 nearly a year ago was put on a JesusFreak build, then cupcake prior to it's general availability release, and now keep updated on the latest stable CyanogenMod build. | |
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|  gerglesGregPremium
join:2003-05-30
South San Francisco, CA | "unsigned" is a canard; all apps have to be signed to run on Android. What is correct is that the option that is standard in Android to be "permitted" to install apps from sources other than the market (on your phone) is not present on any AT&T Android handset yet.
However, you can still manually install non-market apps using adb (at least you can on the Backflip,) so any 'security' rationale is bupkis, or else they wouldn't permit that either. | |
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| | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store? said by gergles:"unsigned" is a canard; all apps have to be signed to run on Android. What is correct is that the option that is standard in Android to be "permitted" to install apps from sources other than the market (on your phone) is not present on any AT&T Android handset yet. However, you can still manually install non-market apps using adb (at least you can on the Backflip,) so any 'security' rationale is bupkis, or else they wouldn't permit that either. Isn't there one OFFICIAL Google-run Android market for all approved Android apps and that are available for all Android phones? And the "other than market" apps haven't been approved for the Android store?
Are you saying there are separate official Android markets for each ISP(TMO, Verizon, AT&T, etc?) and phone vendor?
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NCAA® March Madness on Demand® | |
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| Mutiny32Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO | That guideline is in a legal gray area at best. Google does not own Linux and thus cannot make such requirements unless the software is installed on a non-GPL, proprietary piece extension to Linux itself. I understand that Google has proprietary code in Android, but the vast majority of the rest of it is covered under the GPL. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store? Google has trademark rights on the word Android. Same story with Mozilla.
»www.linux.com/archive/feed/57675
If Google was smart, if you don't meet Google's platform requirements, you can't call the device "Android". | |
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| | |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: Aren't unsigned apps installed outside Android store? No shit?
Lt. Commander Data's gonna be PISSED! | |
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| | well You could always buy an unlocked phone not from AT&T. | |
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|  AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| Re: well said by brianiscool:You could always buy an unlocked phone not from AT&T. No need. Just wait for xda developers to come out with a custom ROM.
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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| | AT&T is the worst Yes, I have a Nexus One i bought for $530 from Google. If i sell this and go with an AT&T Nexus One, I will also be buying it directly from Google. Maybe its something in Google's favor. | |
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| MRCUR
join:2007-03-09
Columbia, PA | Re: AT&T is the worst I don't get your point. AT&T doesn't sell the Nexus One directly. In fact, no one sells the Nexus One directly other than Google themselves. | |
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|  CjaicemanPremium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
kudos:2 | I have the AT&T version of the Nexus One and love it. I really like the fact that I know AT&T has NEVER had their hands on it (other than a SIM card). | |
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| | full disclosure As long as full disclosure is given, which it rarely is in circumstances like this, I don't have a problem with AT&T wanting to neuter their phones. | |
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| Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: full disclosure said by InfinityDev:As long as full disclosure is given, which it rarely is in circumstances like this, I don't have a problem with AT&T wanting to neuter their phones. And to call a phone neutered with the availability of over 30,000 apps is misusing the term neutered.
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NCAA® March Madness on Demand® | |
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| | | | Re: full disclosure It is a computer on which I cannot run my own code without corporate approval. Neutered doesn't go far enough in describing this situation. | |
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 en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Net neutrality 101 If you can't block what you want/don't want at the network level,
block it at the OS/handset level.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | hmmmm.... I have ATT, and use my own phones, don't use their phones, and internet for that reason,haven't renewed contract in 5 years, where I live and work, ATT's service is the best, which isn't saying much. As some stated "the can go # sand"
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BlooMe | |
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| en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: hmmmm.... True - who says that you have to purchase the devices through them. 
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | MRCUR
join:2007-03-09
Columbia, PA | Re: hmmmm.... It's funny you mention that. The Nexus One apparently isn't in AT&T's database yet, so the IMEIs of them don't match to a smartphone. It seems like the only data plans working with the N1s right now are the $15/month dumbphone plans. | |
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Mutiny32Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO | They just don't get it... $100 says Apple has a lot to do with this.
It's going to be all of a week (if that) before the phones are rooted and AT&T's whole scheme goes down the drain.
Why do these companies keep performing this exercise in futility by wasting time and money locking down these sort of things when it's fully known that it will be rendered useless in a matter of days if not hours? Just stop it already. | |
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|  gballMaster YodaPremium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN | Re: They just don't get it... Sadly most people besides us won't know how or bother and just deal with what the carrier gives them because they don't know any better. | |
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| | Mutiny32Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO | Re: They just don't get it... True about your average user not knowing or caring, but I was hinting more at begging the question of why do it at all. It's a waste of time, resources, and money that could be going towards something more productive, like making their network less crappy. | |
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| | | Apple hater/troll? AT&T have been using their own customized firmwares on Nokia and SE phones long before the iPhone even existed. Why don't you ask Dell, and ask them why they agreed to AT&T's locking down the phone, and why they didn't just sell the phone themselves. The douche one here is Dell, for being too greedy in getting money from AT&T. | |
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| | VOTE WITh YOUR WALLET! Just don't buy it... let it collect dust in the stockrooms and have AT&T take a bath on them that they'll either have to fix this issue or use them as landfill! | |
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|  FlummoxedPremium
join:2002-01-24
Saint Peters, MO | Re: VOTE WITh YOUR WALLET! At&t would then come out with some sort of statement like "Our users do not like or seem to need Google's Android phone so we will drop support for them." | |
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| | Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: VOTE WITh YOUR WALLET! said by Flummoxed:At&t would then come out with some sort of statement like "Our users do not like or seem to need Google's Android phone so we will drop support fior them." This is the chicken and the egg.. it's the fancy featured phones that are the main attraction to consuming service on a POST PAID account! Without an uncrippled & fully featured phone as an incentive customers will chose prepaid as their option. AT&T probably is under some sort of legal obligation to support the iphone deal as a priority over ALL other handset makers. Verizon phones aren't exactly any better and they also have a deal with tracfone & walmart to resell service at a $30 & $45 flat rate/unlimited rate. The market for post paid customers continue to shrink steadily. Why pay over $100 per month for this crap when you can pay $50 or under for the same kind of service. Sure, the plans are about $70 a month but some aren't all inclusive and they all add taxes & fees which can equal nearly 40% of your total cost!!! AKA RTFFP
$50 X 24 months = $1200 Plus any extra for the cost of the device.. most times you're even contrinuting to the purchase of the phone so add that cost on as well upfront and THEN you see how far down the rabbit hole your really out of pocket for! | |
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| | | Or you can simply demand Dell to sell them standalone themselves, free from AT&T.
Really, AT&T sux, no doubt about it, but in this case, AT&T is doing nothing new. Dell is the douche one here. Nobody's stopping Dell to sell the phone themselves, or even do both. Look at Nokia E71. AT&T's version, the E71x, sux. But Nokia is also selling the standalone E71 themselves. | |
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 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA |  Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!
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| | | Re: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers! said by jmn1207:There has to be a way for developers to create and test their application designs. I would assume one could install an SDK and use commands that would bypass this lock down. Yes, you should be able to install the SDK on you computer and use ADB to install the apps, but the average user isn't going to do this. | |
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| | | | Re: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers! said by kathi17:Yes, you should be able to install the SDK on you computer and use ADB to install the apps, but the average user isn't going to do this. Actually, there is some restriction is even getting ADB on the Backflip and using it to install apps. | |
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MTUPremium
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA | I wonder... if there will be any VOIP apps. | |
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 jarablueAlways be true to yourself
join:2001-06-11
Boxborough, MA | What a joke ATT wants to sell you a phone and then have you not use it but yet pay $$$ them for what? Crap?
ATT is a joke of a network. I hope no one buys the phone with so many restrictions. What's the point really? ATT should milk the iphone for all it's worth.
Their plans are expensive and they don't want you to use the network.
Thanks but no thanks. | |
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| nonymousPremium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ Reviews:
 ·Callcentric
| Re: What a joke said by jarablue:ATT wants to sell you a phone and then have you not use it but yet pay $$$ them for what? Crap? ATT is a joke of a network. I hope no one buys the phone with so many restrictions. What's the point really? ATT should milk the iphone for all it's worth. Their plans are expensive and they don't want you to use the network. Thanks but no thanks. ATT and Verizon both. Here you are now connected to the net. is a wonderful and free to do as you want place. I am sure you heard of it. Said in fine print or low voice "Our version of it. But you will never notice the difference sucker. " | |
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momcat1No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| no sense buying devices from any of the carriers I have not bought a device from ATT in several years, and have no intention of doing so in the future. That said, the service works well, and since I bought my own device from somewhere else, ATT can't control what I install on it. I don't need them 'worrying' that I will install something bad on my phone - I'm a big kid now, I can take care of my own devices, thank you very much.
BTW, in case you haven't looked recently, like in the last seven years or so, Verizon is no prize package either. Same fun and games, different channel. For those who do not educate themselves, they will be subjected to a lot of FUD and pay through the nose for it, no matter which provider you're with.
It's sad to see that developers are actually trying to create neat devices with innovative features, but the service providers just want to squash the new stuff and make the devices as dumb as the old ones. All because they might miss a few pennies and prevent customers from running in the other direction. | |
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| | | Re: no sense buying devices from any of the carriers I don't want to sound like a T-Mobile fanboy, but for those who have coverage, T-Mo and an HTC phone are pretty a pretty good match. T-Mo doesn't add a a lot of garbage to their phones, (the Motorola phones have Moto garbage on them though), and the HTC phones are easily hacked. T-Mo even provides a forum on their site for hacking. All they do is warn you that it voids your warantee. There is a very active community of hackers there. Even the moderators hack their phones. Both T-Mobile and HTC are active with the Android devs on twitter.
It's all very friendly, and no matter how you feel about T-Mo, you have to give them credit for being so open. | |
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| | momcat1No Relation To The Bobcat
join:2002-10-21
Wappingers Falls, NY | Re: no sense buying devices from any of the carriers Yup, no T-Mo here.
Wait and see. T-Mo will get on the bandwagon as soon as they increase subscribers. | |
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 tuarisYou Clicked on the Apple
join:2001-10-19
Naples, FL | I Think Apple has something to do with this. I Think Apple has something to do with this. | |
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 heat84Bit Torrent Apologist
join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL
2 edits | They'll be unlocked in no time Don't worry. Like jail breaking iPhones, someone will unlock these PDQ. Of course most people won't have the skills to do it to their phone, if they even know about it.
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Bit Torrent is my DVR. | |
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| | Good for Google Good for Google. Don't take their crap. Google could buy ATT for breakfast toast if they wanted. ATT is just the worse company in the universe and just keeps making the rope around their neck tighter and tighter. | |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| sad It is truely sad when a third world country like Kuwait has better cell phone plans than we do.. Phones there are unlocked, network swappable and following the unlocked some more.. Your free to install whatever you want without fear of the phone provider retalliating against you.. Why? They know they have TRUE competition in the market and the government there is soo rich, they can't buy them off to put in rules "protecting" their customers from terrorist activity's...
Our country will fall in the name of greed one day.. And most will be too ignorant to even realise it.. | |
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| | | Re: sad Another reason why is that the US is unlike most countries in that it uses several cellular standards on different bands compared to the rest of the world.
Compare this to pretty much all of Europe - GSM or UMTS, on 900/1800/2100. This means that I can not only switch from one UK network to another with ease, I can do the same if I visit France (just buy a local pre-paid SIM). This was, after all, the entire point of the GSM standard.
Competition / regulation is the other aspect - we have 5 networks covering pretty much the same area. Except for the iPhone, they compete heavily on plans and phones. | |
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