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AT&T Makes New 18Mbps U-Verse Tier Official
AT&T insists to us that distance, bandwidth won't be a problem...

Last month we were the first to report that AT&T was cooking up a faster "Max" 18Mbps/1.5Mbps U-Verse tier. Today the company made the tier official, a press release confirming that "Internet Max 18" will be available to eligible residential customers November 9. The tier supplants AT&T's previously fastest 10Mbps, and is $65 a month as part of a TV bundle. We ask AT&T how many customers will really be eligible for the new tier, and whether bandwidth may get a little tight.

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While most customers can only get 25Mbps from AT&T's VDSL service (both TV and data), many sit closer to 5,000 feet, where 18Mbps over a single VDSL pair won't be possible. Some customers close enough to the DSLAM (we're talking 1,400 feet) have seen their U-Verse gateway sync at 100Mbps. We've also seen customers at 1850 feet sync at 58mbps, and so on down the line.

Distance is going to limit this tier's availability, but it's not yet clear how much. In conversations with AT&T, they weren't able to provide us with a loop length cutoff qualification point, though AT&T spokesman Seth Bloom insists to me that "the overwhelming majority of our U-verse eligible customers will be able to order Max 18."

How could that be possible? AT&T is going to provide 18Mbps even to customers with a 25Mbps line, but that speed will only be obtainable when the TV services aren't in use (or are being used less). The move explains AT&T's recent reconfiguring of their terms of service. However, it's going to raise some customer eyebrows when the 18Mbps tier they signed up for is only 18Mbps when the kids are asleep and hubby isn't watching the 50" Plasma.

"The rate required for a video stream is not constant," explains AT&T. "We use the most sophisticated compression technology available that encodes video at a substantially lower rate than our competitors, and we also use variable bit rate encoding," says AT&T spokesman Seth Bloom. "The rate varies based on the picture being displayed -- higher rate for high detail or high motion image, lower rate for an image with less motion or less detail."

"We know that even during the hours of highest activity, the vast majority of our customers aren’t watching 2 HD shows, 2 SD shows, and using maximum broadband speeds all at the same time," he says. "There’s plenty of bandwidth and flexibility to be able to offer Max 18," Bloom insists.

The new tier is primarily a marketing counter punch against Comcast, who was using the cable company's 16Mbps "Blast!" tier as a tactical weapon against AT&T in U-Verse markets, where some Comcast employees tell us they're paid $100 to spot fresh U-Verse installs. Comcast's new 22Mbps and 50Mbps DOCSIS 3.0 tiers leave AT&T one step behind, and does nothing to derail the argument that AT&T should have simply invested in pure fiber to the home.

Still, AT&T probably figures that their current speeds are more than adequate for the majority of customers for several years. The company is working on 30-40% faster speeds at greater loop lengths with bonded VDSL, but it's looking like that won't be available until late 2009. Keep your eyes peeled on our U-Verse forum for user experiences (specifically TV crowding and distance) with the new faster tier when it becomes available next week.
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tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA

tad2020

Member

CAP

+ a 180GB cap

*joke*
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: CAP

Will be interesting to see what cap they put on the service. Is it REALLY 180GB? That isn't much more than 10/1.5

Then again, 8/2 is the fastest residential cable I can get here. But that's because there's no UVerse...

On the other hand, looks like Comcast now has to deploy DOCSIS 3 not only in FiOS markets, but also in UVerse markets, if they want to still be able to pull the speed card as a reason to stick with (or switch to) cable internet.

tad2020
join:2007-07-17
Orange, CA

tad2020

Member

Re: CAP

180-200 would fit in the curve they set with the current proposed caps. 270 would make it proportional to Max: 150/10=15, 270/18=15.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

1 edit

djrobx

Premium Member

And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

Karl, you're assuming they're going to up the 25mbps per home profile. They don't necessarily need to.

Remember, the new TOS states that internet bandwidth may be limited when "bandwidth intensive" TV services are in use. That means they very well might QoS the system to allow "up to 18mbps" downloads when all the HDTV streams are not in use.

The remainder (those that are not the "overwhelming majority") are probably those on the 19mbps profile.

I suppose we'll find out in just a few days.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

Yes good point. Added a little something about that.

It will be interesting to see if houses who watch a lot of TV get upset when they find the 18Mbps they ordered is really only 18mbps when the kids are asleep and the hubby isn't watching HD sports...

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

quote:
It will be interesting to see if houses who watch a lot of TV get upset when they find the 18Mbps they ordered is really only 18mbps when the kids are asleep and the hubby isn't watching HD sports...
No doubt. Of course, this is purely speculation on my part.

AT&T just seems very reluctant to grow the 25mbps profile. At an investor conference a while back AT&T was talking about expecting to 4HD to fit in the current 25mbps profile. As it is now, 10mbps "max" internet does not share with TV, so I'm also thinking that new verbage came to fruition for a reason.

I do think AT&T could stand to increase the bandwidth profile for most people. I'm 2600' out with a max sync of 49mbps. I'm pretty close to the 3000' cutoff.

We'll see.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

said by djrobx:

quote:
It will be interesting to see if houses who watch a lot of TV get upset when they find the 18Mbps they ordered is really only 18mbps when the kids are asleep and the hubby isn't watching HD sports...
No doubt. Of course, this is purely speculation on my part.

AT&T just seems very reluctant to grow the 25mbps profile. At an investor conference a while back AT&T was talking about expecting to 4HD to fit in the current 25mbps profile. As it is now, 10mbps "max" internet does not share with TV, so I'm also thinking that new verbage came to fruition for a reason.

I do think AT&T could stand to increase the bandwidth profile for most people. I'm 2600' out with a max sync of 49mbps. I'm pretty close to the 3000' cutoff.

We'll see.
4HD streams with 25mbs bandwidth? Even with MPEG4, that doesn't sound very good.

gdm
MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL

gdm

MVM

Re: And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

You can't do 4HD streams right now it's 2HD/2SD or 4SD if you are on the 25meg profile.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

said by gdm:

You can't do 4HD streams right now it's 2HD/2SD or 4SD if you are on the 25meg profile.
That is even worse. What do families with multiple TVs do when several people want to watch different programs in HD, or even SD?

gdm
MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL

gdm

MVM

Re: And what will the bandwidth cap on that be, AT&T?

I think the number of families that need to watch more then 4 live shows are small percentage. They plan to increase that streams in the future but for now it is what it is.

djsars
@exacttarget.com

djsars to djrobx

Anon

to djrobx
How can you tell what rate you are syncing at?
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

Yes good point. Added a little something about that.

It will be interesting to see if houses who watch a lot of TV get upset when they find the 18Mbps they ordered is really only 18mbps when the kids are asleep and the hubby isn't watching HD sports...
My math says 1 HD or 2 SD streams would almost fit within the 7 mbps left over (25 minus 18)... so you might get 16 or 17 rather than 18 if "hubby is watching HD sports" (why not "wife watching HD sports"? ) this is assuming no voice of course, a phone call would knock a bit off this.

I'm planning to upgrade as soon as it's available (my employer pays for it anyway), so I'll keep y'all posted on what happens. I'm currently Internet only (no TV), synch at 56 megabits, profile says 25 down. So I obviously have plenty of room to go to 18, and they don't HAVE to re-provision me... although they might. I'll let you know what happens!
Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX

Enlightener

Member

FTTP - Internet Only

I'm an FTTP customer with 10/1.5 service ... no other services.

Is this tier still available to customers like me and at what price?
Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Pv8man

Member

AT&T...

AT&T....helping you reach that cap limit quicker then ever before (TM)
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: AT&T...

More like...

AT&T
Your world, capped

or

Your cap, delievered

XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

XBL2009

Member

There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

Since they are fed from fiber to the node they shouldn't have much problem with capacity.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

said by XBL2009:

Since they are fed from fiber to the node they shouldn't have much problem with capacity.
AT&T's cap trial includes U-verse. 80GB for DSL/U-Verse Elite and 150GB for U-Verse Max. See the details in this article.

»More Specifics On AT&T's Cap Plans [138] comments
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas to XBL2009

Premium Member

to XBL2009
said by XBL2009:

Since they are fed from fiber to the node they shouldn't have much problem with capacity.
The caps have nothing to do with the network in your town. (In any case everybody's network is fiber somewhere. AT&T has pushed the fiber to your neighborhood (but usually not your house)).

They have everything to do with national backbone capacity. Or maybe greed (if you read some of the other posters here )
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

National backbone capacity my butt. As far as I can tell the big national backbones (ATT being one of them) have no problem at all with capacity over those links...
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

said by iansltx:

National backbone capacity my butt. As far as I can tell the big national backbones (ATT being one of them) have no problem at all with capacity over those links...
Define "no problem". AT&T's investing a huge amount of money in their backbone to keep up with demand. Here's a quote from AT&T:
quote:
In calendar year 2007, we spent more than $17.5 Billion on capital expenditures for our network and services. This summer we turned up our OC 768 Internet backbone to replace the backbone facilities that were part of the SBC/AT&T transaction less than three years ago. And before that OC 768 backbone celebrates its third birthday, we expect backbone bandwidth demands to increase by 400%.

iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

They weren't at-capacity to start with, and on the OC 768's third birthday they'll be back up to that same capacity they are right now.

Also, when you spread that 17.5B over all their wireless, wireline and business customers (all of them paying) you find the upgrade cot per customer to be comparable to maybe Qwest's ADSL2+ rolout. In short, sure they had to upgrade their netowrk, but the backbone upgrade was less than the cost of deploying UVerse, by a large factor.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

said by iansltx:

They weren't at-capacity to start with, and on the OC 768's third birthday they'll be back up to that same capacity they are right now.
Of course they were not "at capacity". It wouldn't be very smart of them to let their backbone get to the point where no more workload can be supported.

So what's your point? That they should wait until they are out of capacity before they implement caps on some emergency basis? That would not be a smart way to run the business.
Also, when you spread that 17.5B over all their wireless, wireline and business customers (all of them paying) you find the upgrade cot per customer to be comparable to maybe Qwest's ADSL2+ rolout. In short, sure they had to upgrade their network, but the backbone upgrade was less than the cost of deploying UVerse, by a large factor.
Backbone upgrades vs. customer-premise deployments are two different things. I can't imagine what your point is comparing these two costs. What difference does it make what their "cost per customer" is for a backbone upgrade?

Are you trying to say that $17 billion isn't so much money and AT&T should just throw that into the pot for free? That is ridiculous. It's a business. They need return on investment.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: There better be NO cap on U-verse tiers

If they have more capacity on the backbone, they have more capacity on the backbone. At which point they can offer faster tiers for more money. Since the OC768 upgrade means there's no bandwidth crunch anywhere on the system they don't have to lower limits by capping subscribers.

Also, they're getting ROI: customers paying for internet access!
Rob2647
join:2008-08-12
Rochester, MI

Rob2647

Member

Caps

The theme of 2008 with U.S. isp's

sansri88
digital is here
Premium Member
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY

sansri88

Premium Member

lol

This is why I'm glad I have Comcast and Verizon in my area...AT&T sucks!

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: lol

Yeah... I have AT&T and Time Warner. Lucky me!

-- Rob
vinnie97
Premium Member
join:2003-12-05
US

vinnie97 to sansri88

Premium Member

to sansri88
AT&T effing sucks! They can flop...may their deathstar burn to the ground.
rupa
Premium Member
join:2006-06-21
Dallas, TX

rupa

Premium Member

Do I need to do anything to get this tier?

So does this mean that if I'm already at 10/1.5 I don't have to do anything to get the 18/1.5 or do I have to call att and beg for the new tier?
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: Do I need to do anything to get this tier?

said by rupa:

So does this mean that if I'm already at 10/1.5 I don't have to do anything to get the 18/1.5 or do I have to call att and beg for the new tier?
not sure I understand the question... but of course you have to call or click and order the upgraded service... it's not a free upgrade

Or did I miss something in your question?

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

1 edit

djrobx to rupa

Premium Member

to rupa
The new tier is $10 more than U-verse Max. So on the 9th you will have to order it of you want it.
rupa
Premium Member
join:2006-06-21
Dallas, TX

rupa

Premium Member

Re: Do I need to do anything to get this tier?

Ah, my bad. I read the price ($65) and saw it was the same I'm paying for 10/1.5. I get to pay an extra $10 'cause I don't have TV service - just internet.

•••

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList to rupa

Premium Member

to rupa
said by rupa:

So does this mean that if I'm already at 10/1.5 I don't have to do anything to get the 18/1.5 or do I have to call att and beg for the new tier?
let me know if you figure this out...

i have max and u100. i'm more than willing to trade the u100 for the 18/1.5 (kinda wish they would give a bit more upload)
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: Do I need to do anything to get this tier?

said by ArrayList:

i have max and u100. i'm more than willing to trade the u100 for the 18/1.5 (kinda wish they would give a bit more upload)
By "trade" you mean "cancel the TV service" ? Or are you talking about trading off bandwidth?

If you really mean cancel the TV, sure, you can do that, just call or click and it's done. You could upgrade to Max 18 at the same time if you wait until Nov. 9th.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: Do I need to do anything to get this tier?

said by MyDogHsFleas See Profile

If you really mean cancel the TV, sure, you can do that, just call or click and it's done. You could upgrade to Max 18 at the same time if you wait until Nov. 9th.
[/BQUOTE :


durr i'm slow. i should've re-read the article.

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO

jchambers28

Premium Member

moving

I thought about moving into a att area. But since the caps came about I will be staying here and deal with cox slowness and all. at least cox doesn't have those kind of caps.

•••••••

siouxmoux1
@sbcglobal.net

siouxmoux1

Anon

Thanks But No Thanks

I am now seriously thinking of switching back to Comcast for only Internet access. Their Tier 12/2 with 250gig cap for $52.99 a mouth is better deal then ATT MAX 18 Tier 18/1.5 180 or 200gig cap for $65.
jca2050
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Dallas, TX

1 edit

jca2050

Premium Member

U-Verse

Still, AT&T probably figures that their current speeds are more than adequate for the majority of customers for several years. The company is working on 30-40% faster speeds at greater loop lengths with bonded VDSL, but it's looking like that won't be available until late 2009. Keep your eyes peeled on our U-Verse forum for user experiences (specifically TV crowding and distance) with the new faster tier when it becomes available next week.
Why do they keep trying to cling onto a dying technology? In late 2009 FiOS customers will probably be on a 50mbps/50mbps (if not 100/100) tier for $60/month. I'm assuming by then the Comcast 50mbps tier will drop to a similar price. Meanwhile U-Verse is only going to be able to offer something like 20-25mb/3mbps (at most) and this is for customers that are close enough to their CO. This is all with a lousy usage cap. It's a good thing U-Verse isn't competing directly with FiOS or I guarantee they would already be deploying FTTH to keep up, because right now there is no comparison.

They need to bite the bullet and stop trying to prolong the inevitable, which is FTTH deployment.

In a year or two, DSL will be like the new dial-up.

••••••

anon0969
@comcast.net

anon0969

Anon

Sucks

At&t calls this shit next-gen broadband? O god..I fell out of my chair laughing. I hope Verizon buys out at&t.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: Sucks

if only the fcc would roll with that.

Ima
join:2003-10-23
Little Rock, AR

Ima to anon0969

Member

to anon0969
said by anon0969 :

At&t calls this shit next-gen broadband? O god..I fell out of my chair laughing. I hope Verizon buys out at&t.
Never gonna happen. Ever.

fiber_man
Things Happen For A Reason
Premium Member
join:2001-01-27
Port Saint Lucie, FL

fiber_man

Premium Member

deployment

In a year or two they might have deployed uverse to all of they customers. But it is more likely that a lot of people will still be waiting.

Anon Cow
@telekenex.com

Anon Cow

Anon

CAP

Once you hit your cap on the 5th of the month, your bandwidth will be crippled, so it doesn't make any difference anyway. But my grandma will be getting 100Mbps on the 20th when everyone else has been capped off the network...

Ikyuao
join:2007-02-26
Wichita, KS

Ikyuao

Member

BS

BS. ATT can't make a match of cable speed 20Mbits to 30Mbits broadband.

••••
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

Rick5

Premium Member

No way will this fly..

To promote and sell this sham of a service as 18Mb would be a ripoff of consumers.

This would be like comcast taking their 6/1 tier..raising the price of it to 62.95 and promoting it as 18Mb simply because someone could maybe reach those speeds with powerboost.

Comcast SELLS it as 6/1..and the powerboost is an add on..free feature.

How much more desperate will you get AT&T?

There is nothing wrong with offering it as a powerboost type service to give customers the added speed if it's available. But to price it as a higher tier when you simply cannot guarantee that it will be available if the other services are in use is a scam.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: No way will this fly..

Even if that is true, how is that different from the shared line cable uses? Cable speed has been known (for years) to drop off significantly during times of high use.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: No way will this fly..

Exactly. Cable as a whole is not always a constant speed Rick, or did you forget? ISP's do not guarantee you are getting the speeds advertised.

No matter what the delivery method, higher speeds is GOOD for consumers.

djsars
@exacttarget.com

djsars

Anon

Caps?

I thought only a selected portion of the US was undergoing a "cap trial".....

Is there now also a nationwide at&t u-verse cap?

•••

Techy
@comcast.net

Techy

Anon

Speed increase

I have U-verse service and it is pretty bad. I also have Comcast and it is really fast. I plan to drop my U-verse service any day now.

Get Comcast or Time Warner

JT
@comcast.net

JT

Anon

Re: Speed increase

I agree Techy, Comcast is much better.

KroqMusic
@rr.com

KroqMusic

Anon

Cable.

I haven't been able to try AT&T's U-Verse yet but I have cable and they just bumped up there speed here to 15mbps down 2 mbps up and I can get that speed. Who knows about the 18max thing. I had DSL with AT&T before it was always quite a bit less speed than I was quoted.