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story category AT&T Offering Dual U-Verse HD Streams In St. Louis
Long-promised feature quietly pops up on the radar...
(old news - 01:54PM Tuesday May 06 2008)
tags: dsl · competition · business · bandwidth · AT&T U-Verse
U-Verse users indicates that AT&T is finally starting to roll out dual stream HD to some users in the St. Louis market. So far, users who sign up for 10Mbps VDSL data service say their gateway is syncing at 25Mbps and they're getting two HD streams without any apparent loss in quality. I'd seen reports of U-Verse gateways syncing at nearly 100Mbps, though we're talking about only 1,400 feet from the DSLAM. It seems that 25Mbps is working well at distances of 3,000 feet; distances higher than 5,000 feet are where the trouble starts.

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To fit dual HD streams into that 25Mbps while leaving room for other services, AT&T has been mastering compression techniques. Providing dual HD streams is an important competitive milestone because until it's implemented, U-Verse TV simply isn't on par with many cable & satellite HD offerings.

AT&T will be spending less than a third of what Verizon is spending to deploy FiOS, a move that pleases skittish and impatient investors, but makes providing DOCSIS 3.0 competitive speeds and HD capacity a challenge. It's hard to think U-Verse will ever match FiOS, but the dual streams is at least a step in the right direction.

AT&T says they'll also offer pair bonded VDSL by the end of this year. To offer bonded VDSL, AT&T needs to assign two DSLAM ports to each customer, and deploy a special residential gateway outside the house that can terminate two pairs. That should help the HD bandwidth crunch, and allow AT&T to offer faster speeds than 10Mbps.

Related:
  1. 10Mbps U-Verse
  2. U-Verse Hits Northeastern Illinois
  3. Dual HD Stream U-Verse Expanding
  4. Qwest: 265,000 ADSL2+/VDSL Customers
  5. Canadian Regulators Send Another Love Letter To Bell Canada
  6. Frontier To Inherit Some Very Shoddy Verizon Copper
  7. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  8. FCC To Investigate Special Access Pricing
Forums » AT&T Offering Dual U-Verse HD Streams In St. Louis
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Post a:
ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

Meh

Too bad they cant get any kind of decent DSL speeds to their user area. 768k is a joke. The limited area that this affects isn't hardly worth talking about...

ptrowski
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Putnam, CT
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1 edit

Re: Meh

Funny, I get around 5.1 mbps here in Ct. Are you saying the max they offer is 768?

jt45

@comcast.net

Re: Meh

in some areas 768kbps is the fastest att does. sound like that person lives in no mans land to only get 768kbps.
ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Meh

I'm far from no mans land. They only offer 768k unless you're in one of their original DSL areas. Its pretty much a joke anywhere else. Cable offers 16meg where I'm at but since we are a new subdivision theres no cable in there yet.

AMDUSER
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Earth
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1 edit
AT&T says they'll offer pair bonded VDSL by the end of this year. To offer bonded VDSL, AT&T needs to assign two DSLAM ports to each customer.
This may prove intresting; in some areas there may be a shortage of free pairs.
(In addition, some areas may only have one pair per residence .)
pegasusx

join:2005-03-29

Re: Meh

As is the case in my area, and I live in the Bay Area, in a profitable area where almost everyone has internet, usually Comcast or ATT DSL. I've been told my line is bad and they don't have any spares to switch it out, so I'm pretty much stuck with 768kbps.

Flummoxed
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Saint Peters, MO
Thats strange for the St. Louis area... I'm in St. Peters and my 3meg gets upto.. well... 3meg and faster if I order the higher up packages..

Chris 313
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Yawn...

"Special residential gateway to offer faster speeds than 10Mbps" Talk about a Yawn fest. Cable already has them beat.

By the time AT&T rolls out the tech to give users at certain feet more then 10/1.5, cable will have moved up to 16/2/30/5/50/5 packages.

AT&T won't last with the strategy they're doing. It'll be interesting to see when they actually figure this out.

Goober

join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

Re: Yawn...

If nothing else, it helps spur along the movement to ever increasing speeds. Can't help but like that.

ptrowski
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Re: Yawn...

said by Goober See Profile :

If nothing else, it helps spur along the movement to ever increasing speeds. Can't help but like that.
Agree with you there. Two HD streams are better than one, as are faster speeds.
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said by Goober See Profile :

If nothing else, it helps spur along the movement to ever increasing speeds. Can't help but like that.
Yes, cause if I remember Dadkins got the 16/2 Blast package cause Calli was getting U-Verse's 10/1.5 package and Comcast wanted to stay ahead.

So, maybe this is a good thing, however suck the copper is.

KrK
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Actually, I hope AT&T's offer won't be able to compete completely with Cable.

That way AT&T will undercut pricing to promote it and there will be a cheaper bundling option for Internet/Phone/TV then now.

If AT&T feels that U-Verse is as good as what the Cable Co offers, watch out--- they'll both set the prices to "Max" and basically be within dollars of each other, and it will be high.
--
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FiosPhoneman

@optonline.net

Please dont compare the two

I am a Verizon FiOS installer who lives in Ct. U-Verse country and you can never compare the two. U-verse can only give (tops) 6 Meg for internet when Verizon offers 20 as the standard package. The TV picture on U-verse pixelates and freezes on HD. Verizon has the best picture out there and I will back it up. I will stick to my DirecTV.
koolkid1563
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Re: Please dont compare the two

While I agree with you on most points, U-verse has one more internet tier now which is 10/1.5. Still nothing compared to FiOS, but it is >6

Ebolla

join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA

said by FiosPhoneman :

Verizon has the best picture out there and I will back it up. I will stick to my DirecTV.
way to back that point up

Wonder Why

@pacbell.net

Please dont compare the two

I am a Verizon FiOS installer who lives in Ct. U-Verse country and you can never compare the two. U-verse can only give (tops) 6 Meg for internet when Verizon offers 20 as the standard package. The TV picture on U-verse pixelates and freezes on HD. Verizon has the best picture out there and I will back it up. I will stick to my DirecTV
Hmmmm, A Fios installer but has DirecTV?

davoice

join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC

Re: Please dont compare the two

A FiOS installer who has DirecTV AND uses Optimum Online for his internet connection. Yeah.

}Davoice

bigskank1

@cox.net

Re: Please dont compare the two

said by davoice See Profile :

A FiOS installer who has DirecTV AND uses Optimum Online for his internet connection. Yeah.

}Davoice
Read it again. He's a FIOS installer who lives in a U-verse market. Anyone else here commute to a job that they can't do in their own town?

He's saying he has familiarity with FIOS b/c he installs it, and that FIOS has good quality. But, b/c he lives in a u-verse market, he takes DirecTV instead b/c the u-verse quality sucks.

Honestly people, it's not that difficult.

learntoread

@verizon.net
see above reply also

learntoread

@verizon.net
He lives in Connecticut in att territory not Verizon territory
Zoly

join:2004-01-04
Houston, TX
This is not true. I get 10 Meg speed for download and 1.5 for upload in Houston area. They call it Elite Pack. Available only on U-verse platform

Karl Bode
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quote:
I am a Verizon FiOS installer who lives in Ct. U-Verse country and you can never compare the two. U-verse can only give (tops) 6 Meg for internet when Verizon offers 20 as the standard package.
That was just bumped to 10Mbps, but yeah FTTH>FTTN. Understood.

CultofSkaro

join:2008-05-06
Wallingford, CT

I have no problems with the internet since it is faster than cable or dsl, but the uverse cable boxes are a technological joke. They have an hdmi port but won't work with them. The on/off button periodically stops working and the technical support sucks.(well it is att) Alternatively unless you live near the ct/ny border you can't get verizon fios. Also claiming your product is better when you work for said company is not exactly balanced criticism. You should work for cnn.
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weaseled386

join:2008-04-13
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behind the scenes

Here's a little info from behind the scenes...

U-Verse is being deployed by way of the Alcatel 7330. AT&T is installing two shelves per RT they plan to provide U-Verse. The first shelf is dedicated to ADSL and ADSL ONLY. The second shelf is reserved for IPTV customers. Before bonding each shelf can handle 192 customers over a (fiber) GigE connection. Actually, the GigE connection feeding the ADSL portion can handle up to 4 shelves (768 circuits).

To handle this bonding they'll provide a port from each shelf. They're still working ways to handle U-Verse & bond sites with: DISC*S MX, Alcatel 7300-HD, Alcatel 7300 LP-HD, Alcatel 7300 LP-UD and a few other varients.
koolkid1563
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1 edit

Re: behind the scenes

That is odd. You would think that if a VRAD has both a VDSL and an ADSL DSLAM in it that green U-verse customers would also be green for ADSL, which isn't always true. There have been a few cases where a customer is red for ADSL on any tier but green for U-verse.

Unless they don't have the ADSL DSLAMs installed yet?
weaseled386

join:2008-04-13
Port Orange, FL

Re: behind the scenes

Yeah, that is kinda odd. My best GUESS is that there is a DSL DSLAM at their RT, but it's full?

David
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Re: behind the scenes

two things you guys are confusing. Any DSLAM can do any speed.

For instance if I wanted to sell you a SDSL connection of say 768/768, I could just simply provision the ADSL DSLAM to 768/768 and you wouldn't know the difference. Nor would you the customer care because you are getting what you are paying for at that point. With just simply a card change and reprovision that same shelf in the DSLAM could be a HDSL circuit or any other type of circuit provided the equipment can handle that.

Essentially for Uverse a 7330 could provision speeds for 25mbps/2mbps or 384/384 depending on how it's programmed, and what profile is loaded to the DSLAM. For instance if I wanted to say sell you a T1 speed I could provision a 7330 to 1536/1536 and would you care any different as long as it had the same guarantees as a T1? Nope you sure wouldn't.

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weaseled386

join:2008-04-13
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Re: behind the scenes

Yes, this is true. However, that's not the way it's going down. At least not in the legacy BellSouth area.

The configuration is a 2 shelf system. SH-1A is for ADSL, and SH-1B is for VRAD. Each shelf gets a 1G pair of fibers. If there is to be a SH-2A through 4A they will share the 1G pipe (by way of multimode LC-LC fibers) with SH-1A. Each 7330 VRAD shelf receives a dedicated 1G pipe. Right now each of the ADSL 7330 is feeding back to Redbacks, which are being replaced as we speak, by Alcatel 7450's, 7500's, and 7750's.

Just because you can configure a specific speed into a DSLAM doesn't mean it's "approved." The last time, that I'm aware of, that a DSLAM was approved to provide T1 service was the Alcatel 1000's that were CO installed only. RR1 SH-3 was wired for both ADSL & T1. (Just an FYI.)

David
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Re: behind the scenes

said by weaseled386 See Profile :

Yes, this is true. However, that's not the way it's going down. At least not in the legacy BellSouth area.
Well I know that.

said by weaseled386 See Profile :

The configuration is a 2 shelf system. SH-1A is for ADSL, and SH-1B is for VRAD. Each shelf gets a 1G pair of fibers. If there is to be a SH-2A through 4A they will share the 1G pipe (by way of multimode LC-LC fibers) with SH-1A. Each 7330 VRAD shelf receives a dedicated 1G pipe. Right now each of the ADSL 7330 is feeding back to Redbacks, which are being replaced as we speak, by Alcatel 7450's, 7500's, and 7750's.

Know what they are replacing the Redbacks with?

said by weaseled386 See Profile :

Just because you can configure a specific speed into a DSLAM doesn't mean it's "approved." The last time, that I'm aware of, that a DSLAM was approved to provide T1 service was the Alcatel 1000's that were CO installed only. RR1 SH-3 was wired for both ADSL & T1. (Just an FYI.)
That's correct, but that doesn't mean the 7300 nor the 7330 couldn't either. Plus aren't the alcatel 1000's getting retired now a days? Something about they couldn't really upgrade them.
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wolverine_99
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Mckinney, TX

Re: behind the scenes

Redbacks will remain for legacy IP enabled DSL services in the cB region. The new Uverse enabled 7330s will use the same backhaul technology as the 13 state Uverse platform. This is to ensure compatibility with the provisioning and monitoring systems already in place.

And yes, there is a plan for a separate platform to provide ADSL2+ services out of the same area as the VDSL (Uverse) shelf. This will prevent the cost of tying up Uverse resources for Internet only customers while offering higher speeds to those that desire Internet only.
weaseled386

join:2008-04-13
Port Orange, FL
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The Redbacks are being replaced by the Alcatel 74xx, 75xx and Fujitsu 77xx switch/routers. They're very new to me, so I'm not 100% sure which does what.

The U-verse (PLS & VRAD) is being deployed completely different than the previous generations of ADSL. Previously ADSL was installed in existing RT's. This as done to maximize the amount of customers who would qualify for the service. (Since most RT's feed multiple cross boxes.) Now, U-Verse is being deployed as close to an individual crossbox as possible. Although you limit the amount of customers that one system can serve, you get a much greater saturation in that specific crossbox. For the most part the Alcatel 1000's stay in place just to provide the lower level of service. I don't do the new cabinet/structure installations, but I do all the existing RT upgrades. For the past year we've been committed to 3+ 7330's per week! Exhausting...

So far the only Alcatel's that I've seen replaced 100% is the little minirams. Four T1's for 8 customers just didn't make much sense! I agree that cable probably has a better model to start with, but fiber is creeping closer and closer to the home!!! Even for the remote areas, of Florida, AT&T has been deploying DSL directly to SLC5 channel banks. Depending on the outlook we either feed (up to) 4 T1's or a DS3 directly into the channel bank. I think the CAT1's are only good for 3M service where the CAT3 is good for 6M. I know in the Gainesville turf (not city) BST promised broadband to ALL UF students... regardless where they lived.

apeface

join:2000-09-16
Mckinney, TX

1 edit

Re: behind the scenes

The alcatel equipment is the 7330, 7450, and 7750. The fujitsu box is the flashwave 7500. The 7500 is just part of the roadm ring.
skrupowies

join:2002-08-22
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said by weaseled386 See Profile :

The configuration is a 2 shelf system. SH-1A is for ADSL, and SH-1B is for VRAD. Each shelf gets a 1G pair of fibers.

I don't know where this information is coming from but it's not correct. AT&T is deploying 3 main cabinet types - a single shelf 52BP which gets 2 fibers, a 2 shelf 52B which gets 4 fibers and a 4 shelf 52E which gets 8 fibers. The BP and B can both be pole mounted and the E can only be pad mounted. Each shelf can provide up to 192 customers with both IPTV and High Speed Internet (not really called ADSL any longer) using only 1 port over 1 pair. The service is being sold up to 3000 feet over 26 gauge copper and a little further over 24 guage. Longer distances will be available later this year with pair bonding which will use 2 ports and 2 pairs to the house.
weaseled386

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2 edits

Re: behind the scenes

Then things are done differently in your area. I have my hands on this stuff on a daily basis. I know what's in my area, and it is configured exactly as I mentioned above. I don't get my info by reading or guessing, I get it because I have over 20 sites sittig out there with a May PTD.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that we are also deploying the 52-type cabinets. Few to none are pole mounted in this region. There are also several varieties of MESA (not 2/4/6) being deployed to feed the larger RT's.

I'm not saying what you typed is wrong, but they are deploying the 7330's with separated service down here. The VDSL shelves must have dedicated pipes, where the ADSL shelves can daisy chain.

KrK
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30%.....?

... with special CPE needed, and pair-bonded VDSL... I'm wondering if costs are going to increase, especially long term.

And AT&T's solution will be near Max right from the start, while FIOS has room to grow.

Alpine
Premium
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Atlanta, GA


1 edit

Cost...

They may have to compete on cost but maybe not.

If they can add IP-related features that the cable companies can't match, they may be able to use those rather than raw speed as the price driver. At some point, except for so-called "power users," raw speed ceases to be a selling item and more/different features become more important. Besides, so many people HATE cable for their awful service and high prices. ANY alternative will be attractive to many.

UVerse offers a bunch of Internet speeds - 1.5, 3, 6 and now 10. I bet one of those speeds will satisfy at least 99% of people. Hell, I'm an IT-industry "power user" and virtually never use my 6 meg connection. In my younger days, yes, but I've grown out of the whole P2P thing and I know I'm not alone.

Either way, it's good to see an alternative to cable and satellite.

morbo
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1 edit

Re: Cost...

said by Alpine See Profile :

Besides, so many people HATE cable for their awful service and high prices. ANY alternative will be attractive to many.
the numbers clearly show that AT&T is not competing on price. they are trying but not yet succeeding in competing on service. AT&T is competing on being the "ANY altnerative" to cable and satellite. so you get the disgruntled consumers and those willing to be guinnea pigs under the illusion of it being something new.

Alpine
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Re: Cost...

There's no question that it's "new." It's the only IPTV available in the markets it serves.

Whether the service is better or not remains to be seen (and depends on the individual's use.)

ccallana
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said by morbo See Profile :

said by Alpine See Profile :

Besides, so many people HATE cable for their awful service and high prices. ANY alternative will be attractive to many.
the numbers clearly show that AT&T is not competing on price. they are trying but not yet succeeding in competing on service. AT&T is competing on being the "ANY altnerative" to cable and satellite. so you get the disgruntled consumers and those willing to be guinnea pigs under the illusion of it being something new.
At least in my area they are very competitive in price over Comcast - I switched from standard analog expanded basic cable, and for the same price I got all Digital, over 100 more channels, HD-DVR and boxes for each TV. If I had tried to upgrade my cable service to the same features I would have added probably $40 to my monthly bill...
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David
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said by Alpine See Profile :

In my younger days, yes, but I've grown out of the whole P2P thing and I know I'm not alone.
yep, I have too, and you are not alone. I used to p2p and bit torrent quite frequently. Now since open source has started to gain more and more steam, it seems that the stuff on bit torrent just isn't worth it's weight in gold anymore.
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Mr Anon

@il.us

I don't have a need for it... yet

I only have one HD stream but I could use it for PnP but as it is I hardly am home to watch TV at the moment. Having WHDVR is probably going to be bigger for me.

I don't now what the future in speeds and offering is going to bring. I'm pretty sure that no company would want to double work and requirements for those that don't need it. For people closer to the VRAD, like myself, I sync at more than 2x my RG's speed, I get about 60Meg but my complete profile is of course 25Meg, and only 10 of that do I get to use for interent.

I'm also not sure about a special RG needed outside either. I don't know if the current RG (which is inside the house for those that don't know) can establish two connections but I do know that I'm on the 2nd pair. Also from what I've been reading I gather that the RGs can support VDSL or VDSL2
iansltx

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Re: I don't have a need for it... yet

Heh, gimme all the speed I can get Though I don't watch TV (except a little bit of Hulu) so probably pass on that...how about I pay the same as internet + TV and get the full 25Mbit pipe for 'net access? Dang, just remembered, I'm not in an AT&T market anyway. Verizon, and I predict FiOS will reach me (in TX...here in CO it's Qwest, Quantum capable) sometime in 2015...

Just tell me if there are any caps, or don't put any caps on, and for gosh sakes don't throttle me.

As to the backhaul stuff, is it just me or is the oversubscription ratio not that bad...192 customers to a GigE is less than 2:1 oversubscription at the DSLAM level, and that's with everyone usign 10meg service. Upload oversubscription? Not even a problem on a four-shelf setup, where download oversubscription would be 7.5:1, max. Makes *certain local boradband proiders*' oversubscription ratios seem simply obscene in comparison.

But as I was saying...

Dear AT&T,
Could you give me bonded ADSL2+ and dedicate the IPTV bandwidth to internet instead? I'll pay for the TV price still, if I can get 25/2 service. Thanks...

...no wait, can't do that. Too far from the CO, and in Verizon territory. Goshdarnit.

iansltx

dslamnot

@rcn.com

att

the att uverse arhcitecture continues to be a joke. they are not even on par with what cable has been offering for years! fiber to the home is the way to go!

See 11 replies to this post

LTRand

@sbcglobal.net

Broadband

All BB in America sucks, just face it. However, this is a good step forward.

To understand exactly how suck our service is, take a read at this:
»www.itif.org/files/Ebihara_Japan···band.pdf

DragonFire

join:2000-07-15
Rolla, MO
·AT&T Yahoo

Re: Broadband

said by LTRand :

All BB in America sucks, just face it. However, this is a good step forward.

To understand exactly how suck our service is, take a read at this:
»www.itif.org/files/Ebihara_Japan···band.pdf
Us Americans are the only ones to blame. We were the ones that voted for Bush again (I have no no idea why) we are the ones that keep paying all the BS charges on our bills because we all have this thing in our head saying "What can I do?"

Something tells me that if everyone were to cancel there ATT wireless service tomorrow, it might just make ATT realize they can't do whatever they want. With the modern wonder called the internet, it could be very possible to get everyone to do such a thing tomorrow with little effort all.

Till we the customers decided to stand up as a whole and say "Hey we aren't going to take this BS" nothing will change. Also many in this country need to realize that they have the power, not the companies. One can live without there cell phone, dsl, new computer, new MS winblowz, but can those companies live without your money???

outtherenost
Victim Of Changes

join:2001-05-30
Corona, CA
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Re: Broadband

In the US the people are scared of the government and that is the problem.

The government needs to fear it's people or they just walk all over them.

My 2 cents
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Corona(like the beer), CA
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jerryc542

join:2007-04-10
Neenah, WI

2 HD streams

I currently have 3 HD DVR's with Time Warner Cable. I have recorded 6 HD shows at the same time. I doubt if U-Verse will ever be able to offer that.
bfreese

join:2003-08-18
Wadsworth, IL

Re: 2 HD streams

If you're recording 6 shows at the same time, I would argue that you have way too much time on your hands :P

aaronwt
Premium
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Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
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1 edit

Re: 2 HD streams

said by bfreese See Profile :

If you're recording 6 shows at the same time, I would argue that you have way too much time on your hands :P
Sometimes I'm recording 12 HD shows at the same time(rare but it has happened). I was simultaneously recording two HD shows back in 2001. And UVerse is only just offering two HD streams? That just wouldn't work for me.

I also don't watch everything I record.
jerryc542

join:2007-04-10
Neenah, WI

Re: 2 HD streams

U-verse is currently offering only 1 HD stream. We may not need it often, but it is nice to have the option to record what you want when you want.
Forums » AT&T Offering Dual U-Verse HD Streams In St. Louis


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