  banditws6Shrinking Time and DistancePremium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| The double-dip I love how carriers want not only to charge you for how much data you use, but on top of that, charge extra for using portions of that data in certain ways.
However, I do have to admit that the throughput on AT&T's network around here is so bad that the thought of a whole ton of people doing Facetime over 3G doesn't exactly instill confidence. I'm sure it'd work fine in Plano, though, where I routinely see seven times the speed that I do in Frisco for whatever reason.
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"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -Ólafr Höskuldsson | |
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 | | | Re: The double-dip Double? I guess in theory it could be triple or more if you're using the mcell. This is funny. | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: The double-dip What gets me is that they keep crying that they need more money because their system is being over taxed...
... okay so let's stop right there.
Generally when you need to collect a higher toll for an over taxed system you're saying one of a couple things.
1) We need to increase capacity so we need more money to build out the system that we rent to you.
2) The over all experience to our customers is being degraded so we're going to refund a portion to our customers for under delivering them what they've already paid for so we're refunding. (This is a joke as it would never happen)
So.. where are all these network performance increases? I don't think they're really increased capacity or improved services to existing customers in which they are charging more. They ARE building out another generation of network at the expense of current users that will also have to spend more money to access it, AND at a premium, because you know, "WE spent and invested in this network" which is pure bullshit. In a sense they have collected a tax on the user in order to build out a new structure. They didn't dip into existing profits, nor did can they claim they went out and raised capital either.. I just find all these extremely bold moves on their part to be gouging the customer. I wouldn't expect any less of any phone company. | |
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|  LightSPremium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX | Agreed - Down here in Waco, AT&T is awful. My Verizon 4G consistently pulls 20+mbps down and upwards of 13mbps up.
However, in the Fort Worth area, it's fantastic. Not sure about north of Dallas, though.. | |
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| | banditws6Shrinking Time and DistancePremium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: The double-dip AT&T is really a mixed bag; whether your phone is usable or not depends on where you're standing. In my experience it gets better the further south I drive toward Dallas. I was drooling the last time I was down in Plano and pulling 8 megabits off the nearest tower. I'm lucky to get 1.5 at home.
AT&T service here in Frisco actually suffered an outage for the entire morning; even calls to 911 wouldn't go through. Apparently they had botched a software upgrade. Fun stuff.
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"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -Ólafr Höskuldsson | |
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| | This is no surprise Would you really expect anything less from AT&T? Then again this be like getting charge more for putting my chocolate in my girlfriends peanut butter... So glad I dumped them for sprint years ago, absolutely no regrets here.  | |
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 exocet_cmI am the law - Judge DreddPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak No need to pay for crap you already pay for. Free for jailbroken phones. | |
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| | |  Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak
said by exocet_cm:No need to pay for crap you already pay for. Free for jailbroken phones. If I remember it correctly, AT&T was cracking down on those who were tethering without paying for the "privilege", even those on tiered plans. I think most of these were people with jailbroken iPhones. Chances are that they will probably do the same for FaceTime over 3G if they force people to pay for this "privilege" as well.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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| | exocet_cmI am the law - Judge DreddPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak said by Pirate515:said by exocet_cm:No need to pay for crap you already pay for. Free for jailbroken phones. If I remember it correctly, AT&T was cracking down on those who were tethering without paying for the "privilege", even those on tiered plans. I think most of these were people with jailbroken iPhones. Chances are that they will probably do the same for FaceTime over 3G if they force people to pay for this "privilege" as well. If it gets used a lot then AT&T takes notice. The occasional user is overlooked.
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"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Publilius Syrus
Ma blog: »www.johndball.com | |
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| | | | | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreaksaid by exocet_cm:If it gets used a lot then AT&T takes notice. The occasional user is overlooked. I thought that they were looking for specific data patterns generated by common "workarounds" available for jailbroken phones, not only high data usage. As far as high data usage goes, they now cap those who are still on unlimited plans (after 3 GB I believe).
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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| | | |  ieolusSupport The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak They do what? How do they cap an unlimited plan?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| | | | | | ieolusSupport The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak I did not know that. Lovely. | |
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| | | | | | |  Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak »www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW5aEQzTcW0
Check out the Google Maps example 5 minutes into the video.
That is the best "what this means to you" example of throttle/non-throttle I have seen. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by Morac:said by ieolus:They do what? How do they cap an unlimited plan?
By slowing down speeds to 2G speeds; making your unlimited data over 3 GB unusable. Correct.. they throttle speeds to 2G, which is very funny because they STILL claim that it's "unlimited 3G speeds, we're just slowing you down".. well, I know they love to play with the term "unlimited" but now apparently they're trying to redefine what "3G" is too.. not surprised since they all have already redefined what 4G is. | |
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| | | | | | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak said by fiberguy:Correct.. they throttle speeds to 2G, which is very funny because they STILL claim that it's "unlimited 3G speeds, we're just slowing you down".. well, I know they love to play with the term "unlimited" but now apparently they're trying to redefine what "3G" is too.. not surprised since they all have already redefined what 4G is. Do they actually bump your connection down to 2G? Or do they leave it 3G between you and the tower and then throttle you down before leaving their network for the internet in general?
Once upon a time many moons ago, when I had Verizon 1.5 and 3mbit DSL, it wasn't uncommon during peak times for the DSLAM's DS3's backhaul to become saturated. While the connection between you and the CO remained the full speed you were provisioned at, you couldn't actually use it all. Yet the ISP could say that you are connected faster then cable and didn't suffer from congestion like you did on cable's shared node. | |
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| | | | | | | |  MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
·Comcast
| Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak said by cdru:said by fiberguy:Correct.. they throttle speeds to 2G, which is very funny because they STILL claim that it's "unlimited 3G speeds, we're just slowing you down".. well, I know they love to play with the term "unlimited" but now apparently they're trying to redefine what "3G" is too.. not surprised since they all have already redefined what 4G is. Do they actually bump your connection down to 2G? Or do they leave it 3G between you and the tower and then throttle you down before leaving their network for the internet in general? You'll still have a 3G connection; they will just throttle you down to 2G speeds until the next billing cycle.
»www.att.com/esupport/datausage.j···0000000U
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | | | | | | | | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Re: Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Jailbreak It's actually about 250kbps, which is usually well above what EDGE can do, although properly set up (not most of AT&T's EDGE network) EDGE is about 190kbps. | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | I would LOVE to see them admit that they know that the data being used by the user is in fact FaceTime data. There's other things people have on a JB iPhone as well which is the ability to download more than the 20mb data limit from iTunes.
Still don't see why AT&T is thinking about pulling this crap.. people are already being charged by the byte.. there is ABSOLUTELY no need for them to "charge" for that "privilege" since data is data.
If congress isn't asleep at the wheel, they will put an end to this type of practice/behavior. Then again, the government is king of applying multiple taxes to the same dollar... basically, we're fu_ked until the people vote people out. | |
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| |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
 ·VOIPo
| said by Pirate515:said by exocet_cm:No need to pay for crap you already pay for. Free for jailbroken phones. If I remember it correctly, AT&T was cracking down on those who were tethering without paying for the "privilege", even those on tiered plans. I think most of these were people with jailbroken iPhones. Chances are that they will probably do the same for FaceTime over 3G if they force people to pay for this "privilege" as well. Depends on how you do it. PDAnet and Mywi can mask thPe APN. If you use TetherMe it tricks it into enabling the native tethering app, AT&T is none the wiser.
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"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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| BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Yup. And they don't crack down on the users who have tiered plans. | |
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| BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Of course, that would only matter if I actually used Facetime... | |
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Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | speculation Of course Karl has NO IDEA and is purely speculating the double charging. AT&T may not count Facetime as data, instead deciding to classify it as a special type of minutes or something. It may work out CHEAPER than if it was counted as data, who knows?
And yes, the capability is there to classify traffic. Already done with MMS, it runs over the same APN but isn't counted. | |
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| Kamus
join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX | Re: speculation The point is that data discrimination blows when it affects your bill in any way. AT&T won't ever get a dime from me. | |
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| | | | Re: speculation Here's the thing - you're not paying for data, minutes or anything else. What you're paying for is VALUE. Or, perceived value.
That way the price you pay can be completely decoupled from the actual cost of providing the service.
It's a crock but that's their reasoning. Basically, "if you like it, you'll pay". | |
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| | | said by Markie:Of course Karl has NO IDEA and is purely speculating the double charging.
FaceTime in iOS 6 can go over cellular, but iPhones on AT&T get the attached screenshot. How lovely of AT&T. They already sell me 3GB of data, if AT&T require me to pay for another bundle of data to use FaceTime over cellular then that really is double charging.
However, I imagine AT&T will offer us FaceTime data packages that don't count against our 3GB limit.
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less talk, more music | |
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| | | The AT&T-only iOS notification indicates pretty clearly to me that AT&T's getting ready to do what AT&T does best. Not sure what has your panties in a bunch. | |
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|  ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA | Of course Markie  has to bash Karl without even reding the f'in article! | |
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| Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT | And, as it turned out I was semi-right. You have to switch to a current, usually more expensive, plan. But you don't get double-charged, per se.
I switched to a new plan, because I'm saving $10 a month. But I only get 1GB, not 2GB. I can stay under 1GB but I sure couldn't if I actually used the Facetime feature over cellular, LOL. | |
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| | Why use Facetime when... You can use Skype, and not limit yourself to an Apple product.
Eg. I can Skype (for free) between iPhone, Mac, PC, Android, Linux, Wind0z, and probably even Windows Phone. | |
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|  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: Why use Facetime when... The same reason people use Internet Explorer: it's the default application. Apple includes it with their products, so people don't have to download any new software. | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Why use Facetime when... .. like people with iPhones don't download any new software.
The main reason, in my opinion, is that it's integrated in the phone and just works. I have long avoided skype because it had always set up, on the web, like trying to perform brain surgery. | |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| wonder I wonder how much rape the telecoms can give us until there is an indention on the desk they bend us over at?
Seriously ATT? Wish we had leadership with balls again.. I would issue a splitup or serious regulation of this kinda crap... Charging for data was barely justified as is.. Now they will charge you depending on how you use the data? Hell.
Verizon's share plan offers unlimited text, which many will do the happy dance etc, but what they fail to see is that alotta phones use data for texting now Your still paying for it. Thankfully texting eats very little data. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | AT&T's network is sub-par The problem is AT&T's network is piss poor and they know it. Allowing free, unlimited Facetime on apple products will cause their network to crumble to the ground. This is a way to kill two birds with one stone: allow the service but make people pay for it. In other words, limit usage to only those willing to shell out for what should be included by default. Gotta love AT&T. | |
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| | buckets of facetime i can see at&t trying to sell buckets of facetime minutes. start charging the same as voice minutes. give users something like 500 facetime minutes for $15/month. implying that facetime is completely different than data. | |
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| | Cost Soon they'll be charging a "toll fee" for every router the packets pass through. | |
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 IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1 | How Appropriate... AT&T has never done anything to save a customer money. I wouldn't have expected anything less from the Deathstar.
What's more interesting though is how everyone is calling it FaceTime over 3G....
It's a virtual certainty that the new iPhone this fall will be LTE capable.
If AT&T actually bothered to deploy a real 4G network, not this faux G crap they have or the EDGE that pops up everywhere, but actually invested beyond the 47 "so called" LTE markets in some attempt to catch Verizon which has over 300 and climbing, then we'd be calling it FaceTime over 4G or FaceTime over LTE.
I think AT&T's BS with this is going to push a lot of folks to Sprint. Sprint's LTE network has arrived just in time...
Go Sprint Go!
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army | |
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| | | Re: How Appropriate...said by IPPlanMan:I think AT&T's BS with this is going to push a lot of folks to Sprint. Sprint's LTE network has arrived just in time... Sprint's LTE network has only arrived in a few select cities so far. And while AT&T is slowly chugging along with their LTE deployment and is way behind Verizon on that, they are still way ahead of Sprint. So while it is almost a certainty that the next iPhone will be LTE, many Sprint users will be stuck with 3G for a while.
I will be dumping AT&T and moving over to Verizon when the next iPhone comes out. Surely, they are just as greedy as AT&T, but at least their connection speeds are far much better than those of AT&T (at least in my area).
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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| | amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·KCH Cable
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: How Appropriate... I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss Sprint's LTE deployment.
There are whispers of some people seeing it here and there for brief times.
In any case, I'd take Sprint ANY day over AT&T, regardless of speed.
Bet that Karl is right, and that they DO bill like this... you can then bet on Sprint's 'unlimited' ads suddenly having far more appeal... | |
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| | | | | Re: How Appropriate... said by amungus:Bet that Karl is right, and that they DO bill like this... you can then bet on Sprint's 'unlimited' ads suddenly having far more appeal... That I agree with 100%. AT&T could have pulled this (and probably gotten away with it too) if they still had an exclusive on iPhone, but now that there are 2 alternatives here in the US who probably won't charge for the same, it's just plain stupid for AT&T do do this.
--
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | And while AT&T launches their LTE network which is largely being paid for by the increases in revenues from data, they're going to get people to move over to a less used network which should have more capacity, charge a premium for it AND still continue to cry that it's so limited in capacity.
So tell me, when does the crap end? Sooner or later they can tell at least one truth.. all of them! | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Why not? If you want to use it, why aren't you willing to pay for it?
Why should the rest of us subsidize your vanity? | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | awesome!! this is a good plan! hopefully soon we can pay seperate for everything...
Skype usage fee
Facebook usage fee
3rd party chat/text usage fee
Youtube usage fee
so on and so on!
sign me up! | |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·KCH Cable
·AT&T DSL Service
| Here's the internet ...now go away and don't use it for anything, especially anything cool or intensive...
Makes me sad to see some of the coolest tech in the world - including what amounts to a f*cking video phone... (FINALLY!) ...gets hampered by ma bell... by throttling, a network that can barely keep up, and now they want to charge extra?!?!
Want to use your hard line for anything useful, for more than a couple of hours per day? ...sorry... you must be doing it wrong, so, we'll charge you more (caps/metered billing ...on DSL... which is paid for many times over, in many areas)!!! | |
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 aztr0
join:2007-10-28
Brooklyn, NY | Whatever. Honestly, this won't affect me... its like once in a blue moon I bother to use Facetime and when I do, I have wifi. | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Whatever. said by aztr0:Honestly, this won't affect me... its like once in a blue moon I bother to use Facetime and when I do, I have wifi. I feel the same way as you do.. I don't see myself using face time while on the go, at all. However, it's a precedent setting issue. Be you like or want to use facetime over 3G or not, people need to take a stance against this or they will continue to degrade the use of the service already paid for.
It's a major slap in the face to the paying customer when they're trying to pull this crap on people when moving to tiered measured plans already takes care of this. This is no different than charging $20 a month to use the data you already pay for on a meter too. | |
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 skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | That's okay... ...another carrier will be happy to take my money. | |
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1 edit | Unreal Really you want people to pay more to use face-time on data that's already paid for? Either your kidding or your a republican, then again with washington NOW >wanting to outlaw reporting on U.S Government Corruption it can go either way... It's idiotic no matter how you look at it, while their at it why not start to charge long distance fees again... AT&T = Beyond Draconian.  | |
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 EGeezerGo CatsPremium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8 | the good old days Ah, the good old days - when an internet service was a dumb pipe.
Now it's become a crippled, DRM'd tool for "content providers" who load it up with bloated java and flash crap, and provides a pipe that nickels and dimes you to death to unlock it from anything beyond going to the weather.gov home page. | |
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