DotMac4Shill H8r Premium Member join:2007-10-26 Huntington Beach, CA |
DotMac4
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 11:32 am
...YetGive the greedy bastards some time, they'll get around to it. | |
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taoFrazzlebats Premium Member join:2000-12-03 Lansing, MI |
tao
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 11:34 am
OpenDNSIs the perfect DNS usage to subvert the DNS redirection methods some ISPs use for profit. DNS redirection is a perversion of the Internet that users themselves can render useless to employ.
In fact, maybe someone should start a list of ISP redirection. We should even start a campaign to have Google, and other search engines, delist the sites designed to take advantage of user misspellings. Google already offers you respelled word options when you search, maybe an additional step is necessary to protect the integrity of the DNS servers. | |
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| gatorkramNeed for Speed Premium Member join:2002-07-22 Winterville, NC
1 recommendation |
Re: OpenDNSYou do realize OpenDNS does the same thing?
Although, you can turn it off..
I admit, I have been a happy OpenDNS user for a long time now. All it took for me to switch, was to have a dns outage at my current isp, and I have never looked back. | |
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| | jgkolt Premium Member join:2004-02-21 Avon, OH
1 recommendation |
jgkolt
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 12:30 pm
Re: OpenDNSyou are correct. One nice thing is all the little changes you cna do to opendns without actually running your own dns server. | |
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what i thinki think this is something more than "a server crash". Wouldn't it be funny if they just took down those servers to implement DNS redirect software? Hrmmmm.... Yup.
Just because its At&t. | |
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| en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA |
en102
Member
2007-Dec-4 12:07 pm
Re: what i thinkI agree... I highly doubt that AT&T has 1 server for DNS for its '9 state south east' region. Here in California, there's DNS for LA/Irvine, San Diego, San Jose, etc. (or at least there was a while back). I suspect they had corruption, and not a hardware outage. | |
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| | ifarrell join:2000-08-10 Willow Spring, NC |
Re: what i thinksaid by en102:I agree... I highly doubt that AT&T has 1 server for DNS for its '9 state south east' region. Here in California, there's DNS for LA/Irvine, San Diego, San Jose, etc. (or at least there was a while back). I suspect they had corruption, and not a hardware outage. Corruption and AT&T in the same sentence, that makes sense. Especially since it's probably all that NSA equipment hanging off their network that probably caused the problem. | |
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mrsynical
Anon
2007-Dec-4 12:04 pm
how does openDNS make money???They have to pay the bills! How do they do it? If they give it away for too long, it may become closedDNS. | |
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| djrobx Premium Member join:2000-05-31 Reno, NV |
djrobx
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 8:50 pm
Re: how does openDNS make money???They have the DNS redirect feature (on by default) to generate ad revenue. I've chosen NOT to disable this feature in support of their service. | |
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ponon
Anon
2007-Dec-4 12:05 pm
Chicago alsofrom 1-4 am | |
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| NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA |
Re: Chicago alsoUnrelated to the AT&T Southeast problem. | |
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b10010011Whats a Posting tag? join:2004-09-07 united state |
Roll your own DNS serverTreeWalk DNS is a Domain Name Server program which fetches and converts Web Site human-readable names into the numbered addresses your computer needs so that your browser, email, instant messenger, and FTP programs can surf the Web. For Microsoft Windows® XP, 2000, .NET and 2003 workstations or servers (Vista version pending). TreeWalk is FREE for personal use! » ntcanuck.com/I run TreeWalk as primary and Open-DNS as secondary. | |
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| Stumbles join:2002-12-17 Port Saint Lucie, FL |
Re: Roll your own DNS serverWell good for you. But no need to tell everyone to install yet another piece of software when ALL you really need to do is point your DSL modem to a different DNS server. It's not rocket science. | |
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| | b10010011Whats a Posting tag? join:2004-09-07 united state
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Re: Roll your own DNS serversaid by Stumbles:Well good for you. But no need to tell everyone to install yet another piece of software when ALL you really need to do is point your DSL modem to a different DNS server. It's not rocket science. I guess that is fine if you like having to relay on somebody else to do their job. Then you can whine about it and blame someone else when something goes wrong. Personally I like to be self reliant whenever possible. Besides running your own DNS server is not rocket science either. | |
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| | | Stumbles join:2002-12-17 Port Saint Lucie, FL |
Re: Roll your own DNS serverBesides running your own DNS server is not rocket science either.
Ya for sure..... I'm just to lazy to do it. | |
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Stumbles |
Oh really.Hmm, an "isolated router" caused this. Appears said router was not so "isolated" after all..... and they don't have a backup? Sounds par for the course. | |
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| djrobx Premium Member join:2000-05-31 Reno, NV |
djrobx
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 2:11 pm
Re: Oh really.One isolated router should not cause this. That's the whole point behind configuring two redundant DNS servers. Competent network design would have these DNS servers in different physical locations so they are not affected by a single outage. | |
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| | Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
Matt3
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 2:20 pm
Re: Oh really.said by djrobx:One isolated router should not cause this. That's the whole point behind configuring two redundant DNS servers. Competent network design would have these DNS servers in different physical locations so they are not affected by a single outage. Agreed. We're a tiny shop and we have 2 DNS servers in our main data center and we pay for 1U of rack space all the way across the country for our tertiary DNS server. | |
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| | en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA
1 recommendation |
to djrobx
I tend to agree. Even IF they decided to have their 2 DNS servers in the same facility, they should AT LEAST: 1. Have them in separate racks (avoid fires, heat, rack damage, etc.) 2. Connected to different electrical circuits (duh - don't want a tripped breaker or UPS outage to pull them down) 3. Connected to the Internet through separate routers / backbone connections (less of an issue, but a failed switch/cable/router or maintenance could bring it all down) 4. Each DNS server should also have a failover switch configured as well.
Personally, I could live with 2 DNS servers in the same facility, assuming that I had 3 DNS servers configured on my PC/Linux box, and the 3rd one being at some other facility. Eg. in my case, 66.51.205.100 (SoCal), 66.41.206.100 (SoCal) and 66.218.44.5 (NorCal). | |
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dellsweigExtreme Aerobatics MVM join:2003-12-10 Campbell Hall, NY 1 edit |
single router failure??A network the size of ATT should never have experienced an outage of this scale on a "SINGLE" isolated router failure.... Even then - the advanced NMS systems in use at ATT should have picked up the root cause of this failure and automatically dispatched a tech (VERY big grin) | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 12:26 pm
Re: single router failure??said by dellsweig:A network the size of ATT should never have experienced an outage of this scale on a "SINGLE" isolated router failure.... A router "FAILURE" is usually handled easily. The problem is when the router is still up and running but malfunctioning. Problems like this are much harder to detect and repair quickly. | |
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| | ONiallYum, Citizen Premium Member join:2002-11-18 Portland, OR
1 recommendation |
ONiall
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 12:58 pm
Re: single router failure??said by FFH5:A router "FAILURE" is usually handled easily. The problem is when the router is still up and running but malfunctioning. Problems like this are much harder to detect and repair quickly. I agree. Sometimes there is a loss of routing protocols, or some other issue that doesn't show up in active monitoring. Those issues take time to identify, and the support engineers need solid information from the service desk to figure out where to start looking. Unfortunately, that can be hard to obtain. Non-technical service desk personnel and customers often don't know how to generate the troubleshooting data required for a quick problem determination. | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by dellsweig:A network the size of ATT should never have experienced an outage of this scale on a "SINGLE" isolated router failure.... A router "FAILURE" is usually handled easily. The problem is when the router is still up and running but malfunctioning. Problems like this are much harder to detect and repair quickly. Indeed. Just the other day, I was unable to access DSLReports, pinged out everytime. I could get to any other site though, and everything else was working perfectly. But finally I rebooted my own router, and *poof*, suddenly I could get to DSLReports again. Somehow, my router was locking me out of just this one site, and doing everything else just fine. | |
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| NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P
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to dellsweig
said by dellsweig:A network the size of ATT should never have experienced an outage of this scale on a "SINGLE" isolated router failure.... Even then - the advanced NMS systems in use at ATT should have picked up the root cause of this failure and automatically dispatched a tech (VERY big grin) Interesting. As an AT&T DSL customer, this DNS outage had zero impact on me. | |
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| | IPingUPingN4BFR Premium Member join:2002-08-30 Atlanta, GA |
Re: single router failure??From your profile, it doesn't appear you are in the 9 state impacted region. | |
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| | | NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA |
Re: single router failure??Well, the AT&T network is larger than even the 13 state former Bellsouth region. | |
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geekMad Scientist at Work Premium Member join:2002-01-07 Southbury, CT |
geek
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 12:18 pm
Anycast?I thought AT&T was using Anycast for DNS. I guess a router failure at a key point would still prove to be detrimental. | |
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| David Premium Member join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL |
David
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 1:59 pm
Re: Anycast?Bellsouth I believe can use the anycast IP's if they choose. | |
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| NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P
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to geek
said by geek:I thought AT&T was using Anycast for DNS. I guess a router failure at a key point would still prove to be detrimental. Unless the AT&T/BS customers are using 68.94.156.1/68.94.157.1, they are not using the Anycast DNS servers that the rest of us ('at&t Yahoo! HSI') are using. | |
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| | David Premium Member join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL |
David
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 3:13 pm
ConfirmedBellsouth can use the anycast 68.94.156.1/68.94.157.1 if they choose! | |
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| | dot_null Premium Member join:2004-06-28 Kennesaw, GA 1 edit |
to NormanS
Re: Anycast?The BellSouth/at&t Southeast DNS servers I am using are: 205.152.37.23/205.152.144.23 | |
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| | | NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P
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Re: Anycast?Anycast allows an IP address to point to the closest servers to the source of the DNS request. AT&T Midwest customers, AT&T Southwest customers, AT&T Northeast customers, and AT&T West customers all get the same pair of DNS server IP addresses. However, my DNS requests don't go to the same DNS serves as a customer in Los Angeles, California, Houston, Texas, Chicago, Illinois, or Hartford, Connecticut. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnycastIf the DNS servers you are using are Anycast servers, your route would be different than another AT&T Southeast customer's route, if you and the other customer are widely separated in the Southeast region. However, if that other customer has a different IP address pair than you have, the servers are likely not Anycast servers. | |
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koitsu MVM join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA |
koitsu
MVM
2007-Dec-4 12:36 pm
Redundancy?One router, 9 states -- makes no sense. | |
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Far more than "equipment impairment"The other complete failure during this apparently (to them) insignificant event was the total meltdown of their help desk. From the earliest part of the problem throughout the evening, callers trying to contact the help desk received either an immediate fast busy or a recording which simply said, "we're too busy, call back later". That's just not an acceptable response for thousands of customers who suddenly find themselves without internet access, through no fault of their own.
Those who found their way to the forum were the fortunate ones, quickly learning of alternative DNS numbers which solved the problem for them. But as one poster put it, really too bad for all the others who weren't so lucky and spent their evening trying to figure out, without AT&T's help, what had happened to their internet. | |
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Re: Far more than "equipment impairment"said by KeysCapt:From the earliest part of the problem throughout the evening, callers trying to contact the help desk received either an immediate fast busy or a recording which simply said, "we're too busy, call back later". That's just not an acceptable response for thousands of customers who suddenly find themselves without internet access, through no fault of their own. Well... it's a good thing that they haven't started bundling the CallVantage service with dry-line yet then. I know of many people that would switch in an instant to save money. Imagine if they switched everyone over to VOIP, what a DNS failure could do to an ATA. I would like to see their response if people across 9 states lost phone service. I would think that internet service is approaching the necessity of phone service in many areas. This is also a reason that I keep my cell phone and a VOIP line, at least one of them will work at any given time. | |
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Bama_Lady12
Anon
2007-Dec-4 1:00 pm
Looking at the alternativesAT&T has never been one of my favorite utility companies, but since they started streamlining aka outsourcing associates and reorganizing Ma Bell, my displeasure has only grown. I am not a tech junkie, but I like to be able to depend on my Internet. We had this same thing happen to us for about 30 minutes Friday evening and then were without our service for about 4 hours or more last night. I don't care for TimeWarner, but after last night and with the deals that they are having with digital cable and their high speed Internet services I am more than a little tempted to switch. Unlimited calling for me and my family out of state are the only things that keep me connected to this stinking company! | |
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boggaf05CCNA, SCVU Premium Member join:2006-06-21 SC |
boggaf05
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 1:16 pm
Use OpenDNSJust use OpenDNS, I found that it fixed many connection issues our business line was having not loading many webpages. | |
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djatsw
Anon
2007-Dec-4 1:18 pm
cable outagemy service with charter Communications was also out for hours last evening. They tried to blame it on the Vonage phone service I have. But the phone was working just fine. | |
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mrsynical
Anon
2007-Dec-4 1:29 pm
how does open DNS make their money??how do they pay their bills? If they keep giving away free DNS, then at some point they could be closedDNS. | |
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bsnihls join:2001-02-07 Jacksonville Beach, FL |
"an isolated router failure.""an isolated router failure." is bull, once again AT&T treats us like idiots.
Maybe I should have "an isolated router failure." when i go to pay the bill this month.
How about this "fail over"?
Hey BellSux now AT&Sux, If a router fails and no one answers the support line, does it really matter?
HAHAHA the phone company is to busy. That is your job! Answer the damn phones or place a message that says, "You are not alone, we are not working either" | |
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1 recommendation |
MediaDavid
Anon
2007-Dec-4 3:27 pm
Re: "an isolated router failure."ha....what ATT/bellsouth claims was their Fix was in reality not a fix for any of their customers. the reason is unless you know the arcane and complicated system needed to log yourself out of your server and reboot your modem, the "fix" did nothing to actually restore service. It only permitted you to have the ability to try to contact someone to walk you through the process. It took me over 16 hours to actually get a call through and after 45 mins on hold, someone walked me through the fix. how on earth could they A) try to lie their way through this when they knew their customers still did not have service? b) allow their customer service operations to fail so totally and completely? | |
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total bullcrap
Anon
2007-Dec-4 1:55 pm
i Caught their BS.I used to work for Bell. a bit before ATT came into the Game.
Bell used Multiple DNS servers for each area. usually by city. Georgia alone had i believe 4 DNS servers for Atlanta alone.
so if they had a 'simple router failure' then it happened simultaneously between all there DNSs. | |
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Bellsouth/AT&T so-called Outage a hoaxMy DSL provider is Bellsouth.net/AT&T and my service was shut down for three days for no apparant reason and without warning during this so-called "OUTAGE".when I called the tech lines were busy, i got through to a recording that stated that an "OUTAGE" in my area was being fixed but when they finally restored it today anytime i try to watch a divix video on any divx based site i get the error message that sates: "Divx webplayer plugin has performed an illegal operation and that it is strongly advised that I restart firefox."(this never happened before the so-called outage) It automatically shuts down firefox. It doesn't seem to matter what divx file i try to watch on Stage 6 or elsewhere it blocks them all. It is plain obvious that they (AT&T) used this so-called outage downtime to make adjustments to their customers services. Without informing them that changes were being made that would allow them to block certain types of internet surfing,downlading,viewing etc. Please pass this message along to anyone u can find. I am going to Drop them ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I googled AT&T and found that they are now allowing the NSA and MPAA,RIAA to have access to its clients emails,web browising etc. I also received a warning from Firefox while i was trying to login that stated: "It is possible though unlikely that someone may be trying to intercept your communication with this website." | |
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| Heterman Premium Member join:2004-02-28 Fayetteville, AR |
Heterman
Premium Member
2007-Dec-4 6:00 pm
Re: Bellsouth/AT&T so-called Outage a hoaxIs there anything you "tried" on your machine while the "Internet" was down?
a.) I can play Stage 6 DivX fine; I am on at&t. Are you sure there is nothing wrong with your DivX player? b.) They have been tangled in the NSA stuff for a while now, that is nothing new. Wait 'till you read about the datacenter they built to route the Internet through. c.) The FireFox warning about "Someone intercepting" is a message received when you go from a secure site to a non-secure site. It usually shows up when you first install the browser and will continue to show until you check the box to not bother you anymore. It is a standard default message, which leads me to believe you un-installed one or more things to try and "fix" your Internet problem. So, that takes us back to my very first sentence. | |
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| NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P
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to SwanSong89
said by SwanSong89:I googled AT&T and found that they are now allowing the NSA and MPAA,RIAA to have access to its clients emails,web browising etc. AT&T was giving access to the NSA since long before SBC bought them. To the best of my knowledge, SBC never gave up customer information to the **AA. They, and Verizon, were even taken to court by the **AA over that. Verizon, for sure (I don't know about SBC) appealed, the **AA win, and got the lower court decision overturned. BTW, SBC took over AT&T, so the company you are now dealing with is, for all intents and purposes, SBC. And, while I am at it, I had no DNS problems over the past period when the AT&T Southeast DNS servers went FUBAR. You could try 68.94.156.1 and 68.94.157.1 for primary and secondary DNS servers, if you like. They have been working fine for me for a couple of years, now. | |
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Same problems mentioned aboveI'll throw in my two cents. I had this same problem. My only regret was not saving the information about the opendns servers and could not access any site at all. I do find it strange that we had these problems after the merger, although it could just be a strange coincidence. I never had any problems before ATT and BS merged. | |
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LeeWL join:2002-11-10 Morrisville, NC |
LeeWL
Member
2007-Dec-4 4:16 pm
I use OpenDNS so I did not even know there was an outage.I have been using OpenDNS for at least a year, maybe since the very beginning and found it was much better and faster than the Bellsouth DNS.
Yes, they do redirect, but since their business model depends on advertising on the redirect pages, they need users to stay with them (and therefore hit the redirect page every once in a while) to make money. Since users must actively enter the DNS addresses to use them, it is of primary importance that they (OpenDNS) provide a good service so people will use them, so you get somethign in return for the redirect page. When Verizon or someone else does it by default you get nothing in return. | |
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