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AT&T Says They're Testing 80 Mbps Broadband
Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...
Buried in a Reuters report -- focusing largely on wireless broadband and smartphones -- is an interesting note. According to Reuters, AT&T "plans a residential broadband trial in June to allow Web surfing at speeds of 80 megabits per second." That's of course much faster than AT&T's top speed of 24 Mbps for their U-Verse service; however, it's not clear those speeds are even possible for most AT&T users given the company's decision to save money and use fiber to the node instead of fiber to the home.


While some U-Verse gateways on very short loop lengths (like 1,400 feet) can see speeds of 100 Mbps, that bandwidth has to be shared with HDTV signals, and most users have longer lines and are lucky to see 25 Mbps at 3,000 feet. AT&T has had continually delayed plans to employ bonded VDSL, which will slightly boost speed (25% or so) and extend line reach. Still, even with that upgraded technology the vast majority of AT&T users won't see anything near 80 Mbps.

So if it's not fiber and bonded VDSL won't offer those kinds of speeds to most users, what is AT&T planning to do? AT&T's Seth Bloom tells Broadband Reports the trial will look at "pair bonding, vectoring, (and) spectrum management," which Bloom insists "can be done very inexpensively and on a per-user basis." By per user, we assume he means a select number of AT&T customers with optimal copper.

Comcast has now pushed 50 Mbps DOCSIS 3.0 service to more than 90% of the cable company's footprint, with plans to deploy 100 Mbps service to roughly 20% of the cable giant's markets by the end of the year. While most users still don't need those kinds of speeds yet -- AT&T finds itself behind the marketing curve in terms of speed. That's not the end of the world, but it's also not great when you want to be seen as a next-generation broadband provider.

We know that AT&T is currently testing bonded VDSL in certain employee homes, and Stankey claims that if the trials are successful, AT&T "could" launch commercial services early next year. Again though, compression and other tricks will only go so far in trying to squeeze 80 Mbps and multiple HD streams into distance-constrained copper. Of course, that was the choice AT&T made when they decided to placate myopic investors and milk copper instead of following Verizon into more serious fiber to the home deployment.

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N3OGH
Certified GLG-20
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1

Sounds like vaporware

Sounds an awful lot like vaporware to me. I doubt it will see field deployment before it's obsolete...
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power
jimbo2150

join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH

Re: Sounds like vaporware

They have deployed some FTTP in some new housing developments. They will probably exacerbate the digital divide by providing 80 mbps service to those few FTTP customers while leaving most of their DSL footprint in the dark...
--

- "Techie" Jim

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:29

Re: Sounds like vaporware

Oddly, all those FTTP customers are capped at FTTN speeds to provide a "consistent user experience."
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable

Re: Sounds like vaporware

very true. There is one just over the Ohio Michigan border (on the MI side) they're capped at what the DSL service offers. ATT took the entire city and rebuilt it FTTP as a test show when it was still SBC. There are a few other cities they rebuilt in WI and maybe one more in Michigan. but they won't say where unless you sign up for service or know people that live there.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Re: Sounds like vaporware

One would think AT&T would like to at least use those sites as the test beds they are. Seems like a wasted opportunity by limiting the speeds.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Sounds like vaporware

but like Karl said they do that only to make things "uniform" across their foot print.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Re: Sounds like vaporware

There's something to be said for uniformity, but I still believe it is a wasted opportunity.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit

Re: Sounds like vaporware

oh i agree with you 100%. Why did SBC send the money out to start off with when not even barely using it. Besides; being able to MAKE everyone of your customers move from 3rd party DSL providers and Voice Providers to your network due to not being required to share the new network with any CLEC or ISP. And then make T1s 3x+ what they used to be since now you "have" to build out that new copper line that is no longer there. Since they won't deploy that over their Fiber.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
If that test is anything like their 3G network, I bet for 80mbs it's provisioned for like 1gbps.

Jerm

join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2

Re: Sounds like vaporware

Zing!
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:4
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
I believe that this is not vaporware. It's not like AT&T to publicly declare they are doing something that's not real. Now it may be very late, it may not have all the features and speeds, but it will be visible.

I'll also point out that this is exactly what I've been predicting will happen, in many forum posts here. AT&T has significant headroom to increase their speeds over copper, on a per-user basis, for those with closer and/or better and/or multi-pair connections to the VRAD.

We have already seen the first big step with the introduction of 18mb and then 24mb download service, plus the move to a conservative implementation of VDSL2 (with no hardware upgrades).

Now it seems that they will offer new levels to customers and open up their provisioning (which has been fairly rigid) to take advantage of local conditions, much like they did with DSL in the past. In fact I expect this to be done concurrently with a move to essentially replace DSL with U-verse, both from a technology and from an offering/provisioning/billing point of view.

They also have a lot of headroom (obviously) in their FTTP footprint which is quietly growing on a daily basis, although I still think many here are ignorant of its presence. Longer term, they can start overbuilding FTTP on top of FTTN, in selected areas, at their own pace.

The old horse ain't quite dead yet.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:29
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: Sounds like vaporware

Again, it's entirely possible. The question is: how many AT&T customers is it possible for?

Also...I know AT&T believes they can milk copper for another four years and gradually move to fiber, but every indication from quarterly earnings is that Comcast is eating their lunch right now.

It's a fine balance between future proofing and suckling the teat of myopic investors.

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Sounds like vaporware

Suppose it's possible for 1/2? and due to the low cost, if the take rate/return is reasonable they (if allowed) double the number of "lawn monoliths" in areas that need shorter runs/more coverage.
they could end covering a large percentage of their footprint but still be well below the crippling debt/ massive obligations thats forcing verizon to withdraw from much of their territory.
Perhaps slow and steady will prove to be a better stratagy after all.

JohnQPublic
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Xanadu

Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...

Good question. I live in the heart of a densely populated South Florida county and could only sign up for their 3 Mbps service. It's no wonder Comcast is eating their lunch.
dave006

join:1999-12-26
Boca Raton, FL

Re: Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...

I live in densely populated South Florida and I have U-verse with HSIA of 24Mbps / 3 Mbps.

AT&T is turning up VRADs left and right and Comcast can't keep my signal up for a complete 24 hour period for more than a year.

So, as the real estate term goes: location, location, location.

Dave
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable

Re: Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...

the VARD turn up will come to and end shortly, just like it has for the rest of their footprint. They keep saying "a few weeks" to my house. I live by one and still can't get service, it fully works power and all is turned on but they won't activate any services coming from it. ATT just blows with this product.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

jeffro

join:2007-04-20
Bay City, MI

Re: Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...

I feel your pain. I'd switch to U-Verse if I could. The nearest VRAD to me has been sitting there for the better part of 3 years and I still can't get service. I don't get it. I know it has power as the light are on for it and it has a power meter.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable

Re: Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...

it's not my pain. i could careless about ATT. I'm happy with my TWC and my new dryline backup being installed tomorrow by Speakeasy/Covad. Which that line took ATT a WEEK to get to work. But all while they were here doing the loop work, every time i had to talk to them they always brought up about "ATT Dryline service is cheaper, better, and we're a union company with great family values"" and my fav part abotu the whole install "it wouldn't take this long if you would have ordered it through ATTSI, we'd have the loop and all work/install done in under 5 days".

Talk about a company. :
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

jeffro

join:2007-04-20
Bay City, MI

Re: Though it's not clear many AT&T users will ever see it...

Fair enough. Guess it's just my pain then. lol. I'm stuck with Charter and I'd love to get rid of them.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
keep in mind though once you get put on U-Verse they make it pretty much impossible ever to get a 3rd party DSL provider if one was ever available. and 2nd, if not you'll never have that choice of getting one. With charter you can actually get a few resellers of service but for business class services with a nice price tag attached but it beats using their actual customer service and billing, etc.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

JohnQPublic
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Xanadu
said by dave006:

So, as the real estate term goes: location, location, location.
Yeah, Dave, but then I would have to live around all of those annoying a-holes in Boca Raton who think their sh!t don't stink.

I'll stick to my Comcast HSI that seems to be working just fine.
pepe7

join:2003-08-25
Keep in mind your stellar UVERSE speeds are very much the exception and not the norm.

»adslm.dohrenburg.net/vdslm/uverse.php
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

"Need"

Give 200 million people those speeds (both download and upload) and we'll see whether or not the market develops applications that make use of those speeds.

One of America's major sources of economic power is the size of its market. Create the proper conditions for development of super high-speed applications, and the market will organically develop.

jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Re: "Need"

Sorry, I've heard that bill of goods before. Not buying it...

Instead, create the demand with some super-high-bandwidth apps and ISPs will roll out a supply of fast pipes in plenty of time for everyone to make $$$.

Plenty of people have fat pipes at work (or will hear the buzz from lucky FTTH people) to spread the word if it's really a killer app.

Otherwise all the whining about our awful, slow, limited, expensive internet (and how it's keeping all of us oppressed) is just a bunch of hooey -- the bleating echos of lame activists working themselves into a lather just for the sake of foaming.
alfnoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-18

ROI

they won't roll it out if there isn't some major ROI to be had.
Even Uverse could be much MUCH further along if they were willing to spend a bit to put it out there.
They only approve a certain number of living units per quarter and of late that is not many at all. Far less than the people actually doing the work in the field could do.
Most of them I know keep saying they are fearing more layoffs soon because they are sitting around with a pittance of work to do.

dissat2

@sbcglobal.net

Increase reliability of current service first!

I've had to call AT&T tech support twice in the past two weeks for my 6Mbps DSL service. The first time it was a speed problem -- my modem was resetting frequently and when it managed to sync the speed was awful. The second time it was an IP-level outage (DSL was syncing at 6Mbps fine). As we all know, getting tech support on the phone is such a time-waster -- for both vendor and customer. If they can't make basic DSL service reliable at a few Mbps, what's the point of pushing for higher speeds?
dorksaber

join:2009-02-16
Lexington, MI

1 edit

Re: Increase reliability of current service first!

Seriously, My line attenuation jumped 10db recently making my formerly stable 3mb connection into a 768k. The DSL tech came out, plugged into the nid for a minute and said I'm just too far from the CO. Wouldn't listen to anything i said. Yeah, my house magically moved itself a few thousand feet further down the road.

And because I'm in a semi rural area I'll never see anything better.

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER

Vectoring?

trial will look at "pair bonding, vectoring, (and) spectrum management," which Bloom insists "can be done very inexpensively and on a per-user basis."
I thought the whole point of vectoring was to get gains by having all pairs in the bundle working together in a manner that reduces crosstalk and interference. How would it be done on a per user basis?

--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ

Re: Vectoring?

said by djrobx:

trial will look at "pair bonding, vectoring, (and) spectrum management," which Bloom insists "can be done very inexpensively and on a per-user basis."
I thought the whole point of vectoring was to get gains by having all pairs in the bundle working together in a manner that reduces crosstalk and interference. How would it be done on a per user basis?

if i understand it correctly -- its not referring to all pairs sitting in the crossbox or so. its as the loop leaves to the customer premise to the point at which it terminates on the nid. my only concern would be around making sure that if the multiple customer pairs are "vectored" in such a way that cross-talk is cancelled on a per-customer basis, as the loop enters the crossbox there must be some sort of cancellation occurring between the individual bundles (i.e. you have two homes, "a" and "b" -- each are vectored separately such that the effective crosstalk/mutual inductance/etc is cancelled within itself, but if the fields are such that when "a" and "b" are near each other they actually create more interference (due to parallel fields) rather than cross-cancellation or so). i'm sure that could be overcome through standards and processes, etc as long as you don't have sloppy techs.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."
ackman

join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA

Not holding my breath

AT&T installed fiber throughout my neighborhood 15 months ago, an AT&T rep came to the door, said uverse would be available in a month. Crickets have been chirping for 14 months...still can't order uverse... I don't believe anything from AT&T, especially ever since they illegally spied on Americans.
bdon78
I didn't do it

join:2009-05-18
Decatur, GA
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Not holding my breath

Illegally spying? Ha.. they weren't alone, they got caught...

I also think illegally spying implies that they did it willingly and the government didn't say.. "give it to us, or ELSE". I'm pretty sure all the ISPs heard those exact words, which is exactly why both the Bush and Obama administrations keep protecting them.

Its like your parents telling you to steal candy from a store then punishing you for it....

I still don't like it...

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter

Re: Not holding my breath

Let's be clear here: AT&T always had a choice. The choice was follow the law or cooperate and benefit financially. They chose to willingly break the law and cooperate with the NSA by handing over all information about their customers and their data without a warrant.

AT&T chose to break the law for money. Class act.


digitalfreak
Premium
join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH

1 edit

Re: Not holding my breath

Hush up. You'll get amigo boy going again... or maybe openbox9. I can't tell them apart.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:4
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
It's amazing how people will believe and repeat a lie, even when repeatedly shown the facts, if it fits their biased worldview. I call it the Dan Rather Syndrome (DRS). That guy still to this day believes his documents on GW Bush are real, that the White House pressured CBS to cover it up, and he was fired for political reasons.

So, sufferers of DRS... wake up and see things as they are. Or become a bitter old guy trying to sue his former employer and getting laughed out of court.
ackman

join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA

Re: Not holding my breath

Dan Rather spied on Americans?

mob
Moderhated
Premium
join:2000-10-07

ATT is still behind the curve

They can only manage a 80 Mbps press release.

batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25

New technology

I think they're going to start deploying WiSHFi services with symetrical speeds of one bazillion bits (1Bzbits) per second.

Rates of speed will be increased/burstable at an equal ratio to current lobbying dollars in your state. The equation looks something like this:

Number of elected @ $1000 per head

Each $10,000 spent = 1 Bzbit increase over stock WiSHFi rollout.

Adding telco dereg in your state will also increase WiSHFi output while creating "new jobs."
--
»www.tricitybroadband.com

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

Re: New technology

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGts0xdftKE&NR=1


I found the source of Reuters story. They interviewed their source at an airport.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: New technology

LMAO!

that just made my day!
computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest
Been on 6mbps DSL since 2007, no sign of uverse availablity in Small Community of Gibraltar Michigan, just ADSL, up to 6mbps, and yet i do more on the internet than i did in 2007, but so far 6mbps meets our family needs fairly well..

Just switched to a newer at&t modem, after our old one conked out--i guess us adsl customers won't see much speed improvements anytime soon, i could go for more upload, and slightly higher download speed myself

morons

@verizon.net

thick heads

nobody wants to hear DSL and TESTING in the same breath. DSL is a DEAD technology. it has no future. if it wasn't for at&t DSL would be extinct already.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: thick heads

tell that to VZ- your ISP.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

"to allow Web surfing at speeds"

The use of that phrase worries me a little. It could just be a tongue slip but I would be much more at ease if they have just said "internet access at speeds".
bdon78
I didn't do it

join:2009-05-18
Decatur, GA
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T U-Verse

????

Interesting to see all the comments here. Its probably because of the audience, but truthfully, 9 out of 10 consumers do not care about the technology, compression, pair bonding... all the terms that those of us who read these forums understand.

Consumers understand two things... Price & Speed. I can't say for sure that AT&T will hit that speed, but it has been done (even higher than that in fact) in the lab before on bonded pair copper.

So... guess my point is this...

Not vaporware
Not dead technology

Maybe not for everyone if you "Need" (vs prefer) fiber (what for?), but I currently have Uverse 24m tier and would take the 80 if they offered it. (i'm within 1000 feet of VRAD).

HonestEnd

join:2006-03-01
Sterling Heights, MI

Sigh

AT&T just doesn't get it...

hdman
Flt Rider
Premium
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI
Reviews:
·Cellcom Wireless

Here's a thought!

Here's a thought AT&T on how to run your business:

1. Stop testing technologies you never plan to implement.
2. Stop spending MILLIONS lobbying states to pass laws that allow you to gain market share in highly populated areas while you ignore your rural customers.
3. Implement DSL technologies in rural areas where users a)need broadband, b)are willing to pay top dollar for it, and c)can't really dump their landlines for cell because of their rural locations.

Simply put, work on expanding services in areas where you only provide copper POTS service. You would have customers for DECADES....

Oh well, off my rant box....

HDMan
--
The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!!

See 10 replies to this post
jca2050
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Hacienda Heights, CA

FTTN

And so AT&T continues to try and prolong the inevitable again: FTTH. I can't wait for cable companies to deploy 100mbps tiers and make their U-Verse service look horribly slow in comparison.

siouxmoux2

@sbcglobal.net

If ATT could magicly find way to Up my VDSL2 Speeds

Right now I am getting VDSL2 Line 1 (inner wire pair) Down Max User Rate 43512 kbs. Now If ATT could find way to somehow magically Increase my VDSL2 Speeds to accommodate speeds of 80 megabits. I would upgrade in heart beat to the new tier. But I highly doubt I will ever see this speed tier ever made available to me, Not until ATT Switch to FTTH from FTTN.
AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON

Ericsson demonstrated 500 mbit/s last year

I see no reason why they couldn't offer 80 mbit/s downstream. After all, Ericsson demonstrated 500 mbit/s downstream over six pairs at a distance of 500m or 1640 feet using vectorised VDSL2 last year. See here, »www.electronicsweekly.com/Articl···bits.htm . I have regular VDSL2 and my Cellpipe 7130 shows on its stats-page a maximum attainable bit-rate of 60 mbits/s at about 1000 feet.
olegy

join:2003-06-02
San Diego, CA

There is no national availablity of 24/3 tier !!!

Another AT&T's misrepresentation and false advertising to fool their shareholders.
There is no national 24/3 availability despite their false advertisement.
It is not available in San Diego, for example.
What 80Mbps? It will be nationally available for a single subscriber and to please stupid shareholders.

pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA

Re: There is no national availablity of 24/3 tier !!!

Oh but there is I had to use the direct support forum on here to ask for it and they did it. When I called they didn't have it, so try the direct forum.
--
My Anime Site - AnimeCrazy.net

Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

1 edit

What will it take

OK how much will it be and if it is like U-Verse where many people can't get it that the real question.

Boredness
The Lurker
Premium
join:2005-07-07
In Limbo
Reviews:
·Comcast

Distance limited garbage technology

at&t uses 26 AWG wire for the last mile in my area and that shit can't send clean DSL signals very far. I think I'll stick with Comcast and their nice thick coaxial cables. Comcast also has way more fiber fed nodes per neighborhood than at&t does.
--
End the war on drugs and freedom today!

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