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AT&T Starts Pushing Users Off Their 2G (EDGE) Network
As Slow Sunsetting of EDGE Network Begins

Of of the chief criticisms of AT&T's attempted takeover of T-Mobile was the fact that AT&T didn't really need to acquire T-Mobile. The company sits on a wealth of spectrum already, including a significant amount just acquired from Qualcomm. Many noted AT&T wasn't using the spectrum they already owned efficiently, including the company's 2G or EDGE spectrum, which can be re-farmed.

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Apparently finally heeding those words, AT&T is sending out notices to some 2G phone users nudging them to upgrade so AT&T can slowly start putting that spectrum to use on their LTE build. Only some users are getting the letters, which politely inform users that it's probably a good time to buy a new phone. AT&T says they'll be supporting EDGE for a while, but the ultimate end goal is the elimination of the network:
quote:
"Your current, older-model 2G phone might not be able to make or receive calls and you may experience degradation of your wireless service in certain areas," AT&T cautioned in the letter. An AT&T spokesman, Mark Siegel, said the carrier hoped to use some of the 2G spectrum for new technologies..."We are still supporting the 2G network," he said. Siegel said customers using 2G cellphones that operate on 2G networks on the 1900-megahertz band eventually would lose all service.
AT&T's still selling some 2G EDGE devices. Given the significant number of users (both phones and older devices) using this network its demise is going to be a slow affair, but the reclaimed spectrum should go a long way in ultimately alleviating AT&T's claimed capacity crunch.
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Metatron2008
You're it
Premium Member
join:2008-09-02
united state

Metatron2008

Premium Member

Who took over At&t?

And made them actually make moves that make sense?

First qualcomm, then building out their lte network...

Maybe one day they'll make FTTH...

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium Member
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA

djdanska

Premium Member

Go for it..

You know t-mobile is thinking "Go for it. Turn it off... hehe" T-Mobile has already said they are not shutting off its 2g network. The amount of roaming revenue from international visitors is well worth keeping active. They will refarm but that shouldn't affect usage.

midwesttech
@insightbb.com

midwesttech

Anon

Re: Go for it..

T-Mobil is shutting off their 2G network, they need the spectrum to launch LTE. While you are not seeing it currently, you will find next year T-Mobile has to increase the decommissioning of their 2G to make room for LTE.

bobgwen
join:2001-07-07
Bartow, FL

bobgwen

Member

Re: Go for it..

Ray confirmed that T-Mobile will continue to support its 2G customers as it refarms the 1900MHz spectrum adding that T-Mobile has no plans to decommission its GSM network. Ray emphasized that T-Mobile’s 2G network provides international roaming revenue and is home to a lot of their M2M customers.

This is from T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray. They are not shutting of 2G

RR Conductor
Ridin' the rails
Premium Member
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
ARRIS SB6183
Netgear R7000

RR Conductor to midwesttech

Premium Member

to midwesttech
said by midwesttech :

T-Mobil is shutting off their 2G network, they need the spectrum to launch LTE. While you are not seeing it currently, you will find next year T-Mobile has to increase the decommissioning of their 2G to make room for LTE.

That's all T-Mobile has here (EDGE and GPRS), the other guys (AT&T, Verizon, U.S. Cellular) are 100% 3G, with AT&T having HSPA+ and AT&T, VZ and USCC planning on rolling out LTE here.
bshelly
Premium Member
join:2002-02-17
Conover, NC

bshelly

Premium Member

What about connected devices? Garmin Nuvi, etc?

I have a Garmin nuvi 1690 which uses at&t's EDGE network. I haven't even turned the thing on yet and it has 2 years of free data included. So I guess I'm going to get screwed YET again by at&t pulling the plug on one of their services. This is a prime reason I will NEVER, ever do business with at&t ever again. Screw em.

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD

Anon

Re: What about connected devices? Garmin Nuvi, etc?

Sorry about your loss, but the Nuvi 1690 is two and a half years old. If you just bought it, there's a reason you paid substantially less than list. Garmin's been unloading the 1690 for cheap for a while now.
bshelly
Premium Member
join:2002-02-17
Conover, NC

bshelly

Premium Member

Re: What about connected devices? Garmin Nuvi, etc?

I've had it for well over a year now, got it at a Goodwill for $100, but my nuvi 650 is still serving me well, so I didn't feel the need to replace it just yet, but couldn't pass up the deal. So is the nuvi 1695 not using EDGE too?

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: What about connected devices? Garmin Nuvi, etc?

Wait, so you got it as a back up unit for $100 at Goodwill, and you're pissing & moaning?

Just break the sucker out and start using it. I'm guessing EDGE will be around for another 2 years....
bshelly
Premium Member
join:2002-02-17
Conover, NC

bshelly

Premium Member

Re: What about connected devices? Garmin Nuvi, etc?

I'm not pissing and moaning about the unit or the cost, just about at&t being the sucky company it is. I bought it while in the process of relocating from Chicago to North Carolina. I made a dozen or so driving trips back and forth and felt a backup device was a good idea as I enjoy taking different routes each trip. My nuvi 650 has held up remarkably well and even has the 2012.40 maps on it. So it's being held on to until I need it. I guess now is the time to switch and relegate the 650 to be my spare/backup unit.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: What about connected devices? Garmin Nuvi, etc?

I put a moving map head unit in my truck a couple years ago. It's nice for seeing how much further you have to go & such, but sometimes it's clearly smoking crack on choosing routes & such.

I prefer an old paper atlas on the Interstates. The nav systems are nice when in cities.

Just my 2 cents, not to got off topic....

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

MovieLover76 to bshelly

Member

to bshelly
This is an initial push to get users off of 2G, it will be years and years before they can turn off there 2G network, it may be a little slower as they refarm some of the frequencies to HSPA+ and LTE, but the AT&T 2G network will be around for quite awhile, their is still many areas on AT&T that only have 2G, you'll get your 2 years out of the service.

Mizzat
Will post for thumbs
Premium Member
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA

Mizzat to bshelly

Premium Member

to bshelly
said by bshelly:

I have a Garmin nuvi 1690 which uses at&t's EDGE network. I haven't even turned the thing on yet and it has 2 years of free data included. So I guess I'm going to get screwed YET again by at&t pulling the plug on one of their services. This is a prime reason I will NEVER, ever do business with at&t ever again. Screw em.

Blame Garmin for not putting a 3G module in it...

SHoTTa35
@optonline.net

SHoTTa35

Anon

Only some of it....

AT&T isn't turning off the 2G network completely. They are just taking some of the spectrum away and put it to use in other areas. I don't know what they have in NYC allocated to 2G but say they had 12mhz on 1900mhz and say 12Mhz on 850mhz with the rest already being used 3G/H+ (LTE is on 700mhz). They can now take an aditional 6mhz from 850/1900mhz which should give 3G more room to spread out, meaning more people can use that frequency without failed calls. Since the ratio of 3G vs 2G only phones are probably 100:1 it more than makes sense.

In somewhere like NYC you wont find "tons" of people still using 2G (only) phones so it makes sense. International roamers can still use 1900mhz or 850mhz for roaming as well. If I recal however, only 1900mhz is left, they took all the 850 from TDMA when they shut that down and put it to 3G and later on left only 1900mhz for 2G in the city??

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

"Dear 2G user, you are in our Top 2% of data use....

but good news, you can upgrade to our 3G network with 100% unlimited data usage!*"

* Data usage not unlimited whatsoever and Top 2% is based off of absolutely zero evidence.
stardotstar
join:2000-12-13
Barker, TX

stardotstar

Member

this stinks!

Twice in one month, and we didnt even get kissed. This is obviously why ATT throttled everyone down!

A**Holes!

jgautreau
@bernsteinre.com

jgautreau

Anon

ATT pushing out 2G phones

ATT is actually not selling but they are exchanging phones, I have my mom under my account and until last Thursday she was using curve 8900, she was upgraded to a curve 9360.

beans
@comcast.net

beans

Anon

verizon must be true

So that means that the commercials that verizon have been using regarding att's 3g network where true? So when Att takes down 2g then they will take down 3/4ths of there entire network? I feel bad for those in the 3/4ths of the network.
SHOtime
join:2001-12-04
Bedford, IN

SHOtime

Member

Re: verizon must be true

Yes, would be nice to think that those of us who dont live in a metropolitan area that AT&T long ago forgot about are in line for an upgrade to @ least 3G.

Verizon is nearly 100% 3G and 4G while AT&T blankets the majority of their coverage area in their old 2G Edge data network.

midwesttech
@insightbb.com

midwesttech

Anon

Re: verizon must be true

Can you provide a link to the map showing Verizon's almost 100% 4G coverage? As I am aware, the only definition of 4G technology that Verizon has is LTE.. and I know from just using it in the SE that is isn't even close to 100% of their footprint here...I would venture and say maybe at 20%?

RRedline
Rated R
Premium Member
join:2002-05-15
USA

RRedline

Premium Member

Re: verizon must be true

said by midwesttech :

Can you provide a link to the map showing Verizon's almost 100% 4G coverage? As I am aware, the only definition of 4G technology that Verizon has is LTE.. and I know from just using it in the SE that is isn't even close to 100% of their footprint here...I would venture and say maybe at 20%?

He didn't say Verizon has nearly 100% of their coverage area on 4G. He was clearly referring to 3G and 4G combined.

In other words, almost all of Verizon's coverage area is on at least 3G. AT&T loves to brag about their 4G service, yet a very large portion of their market is still stuck with EDGE.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry to midwesttech

Premium Member

to midwesttech
20%? Not even close. Per Verizon's most recent press release.

"Following the launches on Feb. 16, more than 200 million people in 196 markets across the United States can take advantage of the blazingly fast speeds offered by Verizon's 4G LTE network with a wide variety of 4G LTE devices, including the DROID 4 by Motorola and the DROID RAZR(TM) MAXX(TM) by Motorola."

200 million is somewhere in the 66% range.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: verizon must be true

said by biochemistry:

20%? Not even close. Per Verizon's most recent press release.

"Following the launches on Feb. 16, more than 200 million people in 196 markets across the United States can take advantage of the blazingly fast speeds offered by Verizon's 4G LTE network with a wide variety of 4G LTE devices, including the DROID 4 by Motorola and the DROID RAZR(TM) MAXX(TM) by Motorola."

200 million is somewhere in the 66% range.

That's the number of users that could have access in their areas that are covered. Not the percentage of areas covered. They are two different things.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: verizon must be true

Verizon will be at 100% coverage by the end of 2013, although probably not all sites will actually have LTE, since some sites right now are covering the area of multiple EVDO sites, that might take a little while after the beginning of 2014 to finally get 100% of sites on LTE.
BiggA

BiggA to beans

Premium Member

to beans
The ignorance on this comment thread is incredible. They are NOT shutting down any 2G, what they are actually doing, if you bother to read the news article closely, is taking down a 10 mhz PCS channel of GSM and putting up another HSPA+ carrier, leaving only one little 5mhz slice of GSM on the 850 band. Until they have 850mhz LTE, which is a LONG way off, GSM won't go anywhere, as HSPA+ can only use 20mhz of the 25mhz in the 850mhz CLR block.

BillDo014
@cableone.net

BillDo014

Anon

Re: verizon must be true

Um if you read the article the last line clearly states the eventual elimination of the edge network.........which is all I get and have been their customer for over 6 years, current contract up and I am gone.
in november
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: verizon must be true

Eventual is still years off. It won't happen until there is 850 LTE, and even then, 5mhz isn't a great recovery from GSM. This is about the 5th HSPA+ channel, and the reduction of GSM from 15 to 5 mhz in the NYC market, which is coming very, very soon. Anyone who is halfway with the program has had a 3G phone for several years now anyways so it is not a big issue.

If you don't have a 3G phone, you should try getting out of 2007 and getting one.

clock
join:2007-05-02
Roslindale, MA

clock

Member

But...But...But

"My Palm Treo and Motorola RAZR work just fine. I dont need a 3G phone."

GSM service isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The roaming revenue is too lucrative to just shut it down.
On the other hand, if AT&T is going to degrade your service they should give you a new phone without a contract for nothing or next to nothing.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: But...But...But

You can actually buy one for next to nothing from GoPhone and stick you SIM in it. I'm having my parents do this, as GSM is clearly getting squeezed, there are already 3G-only areas, and now they will be able to use the Microcell too.

buddahbless
join:2005-03-21
Premium

1 edit

buddahbless

Member

Simple solution for ATT actually

ATT...."Hello customer we notice you are still using a 2G phone on our ATT network and only using talk and txt features, due to upgrades and advancements in technology were giving you a free one time upgrade to a (3G or LTE by that time) feature Only phone so you can experience the BEST (or worst depending on how you look at it) of our new network, and at the same time you can upgrade to a data plan if you wish to do so for a nominal ( rape me ) fee."

Agreed ATT should be giving away 3G phones free without a contract, but this is AT and backward T were speaking of.

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium Member
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA

djdanska

Premium Member

Re: Simple solution for ATT actually

Don't forget mandatory data plan!
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Bias again

"the fact that AT&T didn't really need to acquire T-Mobile".

Karl, that is not a FACT, and in FACT is contradictory to all the evidence out there. If AT&T had gotten T-Mobile, they would have another two PCS blocks in NYC, which they could have moved most of the GSM subs off of in the matter of a year, and switched over to HSPA+, with a few GSM stragglers going onto AT&T's little 5mhz GSM slice in the CLR band.

AT&T is now in a poor position to compete with Verizon on LTE, since they don't have enough spectrum. They would have been in a MUCH better place with T-Mobile. Instead we now have two carriers, each running three networks, which is causing and going to cause massive spectrum fragmentation that is going to cause poorer service for the customer.

If they had merged, the combination of additional sites (say 1.5x in NYC), and the spectrum (from 50 to 70mhz of NAM HSPA+ in NYC) would have combined to create over a doubling in AT&T's NAM 3G capacity which would have worked to serve customers much better than the mess that we have now. T-Mobile's 3G customers could have migrated partly toward 700/AWS LTE, and partly to NAM 3G, and the network still would have had far more per capita capacity than it does now.

•••
taurusgl
join:2007-07-30
Turlock, CA

taurusgl

Member

Did this here a while ago

They did this to my mom here in California about a little over a year ago. They swapped her old motorola razr to a 3G phone.

compuguybna
join:2009-06-17
Nashville, TN

compuguybna

Member

still got razr's

Two family members still got a MOTO RAZR. Don't mind upgrading but I'll be damned if I pay a $36 upgrade fee!

anon765
@mich.net

anon765

Anon

Re: still got razr's

That must have been a pretty durable phone... I was wondering how old it might have been, and it has to be at least 6 years old. You would have to have a V3i or older version, as the V3x and newer support HSDPA.
weaver0
join:2004-05-05
Macungie, PA

weaver0

Member

I'll miss the backup network

I've found that in high usage areas (think Disney, sporting events), 3G drops to its knees - turning off the 3G on my iPhone gives me some, albeit slow, network access. Something is better than nothing
acoustix
join:2004-01-30
Fort Dodge, IA

acoustix

Member

Typical AT&T

It sounds to me like they're putting the cart before the horse. In my state they don't have any 4G coverage and 3G coverage is limited to the capital city and Interstate. People with 2G phones will find themselves without coverage when they are supposedly paying for a nation-wide network.

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

MovieLover76

Member

Re: Typical AT&T

They won't shut off 2G service in areas that only have 2G obviously, they won't shut if off completely anywhere for a long time but they may finally upgrade them to at least 3G and refarm some spectrum from 2G in the area. Leaving 2G more likely to experience congestion, hence they are encouraging people to get 3G phones for the best service.

Kcjsk789
@sbcglobal.net

Kcjsk789 to acoustix

Anon

to acoustix
said by acoustix:

It sounds to me like they're putting the cart before the horse. In my state they don't have any 4G coverage and 3G coverage is limited to the capital city and Interstate. People with 2G phones will find themselves without coverage when they are supposedly paying for a nation-wide network.

Not true, they have 3G coverage outside Des Moines in other larger towns or more populated counties. And majority of their 2g coverage area is roaming zone (likely from iwireless). And themselves have more 3G coverage than iwireless and tmobile combined in regards to HSPA technology.
But what I noticed they don't run hspa+ there yet except in Des Moines and Ames.
Cloneman
join:2002-08-29
Montreal

Cloneman

Member

International Roaming?

This decision doesn't make much sense from a Roaming revenue perspective. Customers roaming from abroad can usually only use the EDGE/GSM network, which I'm guessing brings in a lot of revenue for AT&T. I'm guessing comparatively few users are able to roam on AT&T's 3G network, because of bands and such.

•••••
kruser
Premium Member
join:2002-06-01
Eastern MO

kruser

Premium Member

Phone switches to Edge when home

So what happens when my phone auto switches to the Edge network when I get home from work? Will I be SOL?

I get a 3G connection in most areas but as soon as I arrive home and climb to my 3rd floor apartment, the 3G signal degrades to the point that the phone switches over to edge.

The edge network is also the only connection I can use when I travel to my country property.

If I force it back to 3G in either place, I usually loose the ability to make or receive calls until I can acquire a 3g signal again. At home it is as easy as going to the ground floor outdoors. The signals do not like the upper floor contrary too most radio signals, (the higher the better) but not here for 3G.
At the country place it does not matter as much as I'm only on edge for the last 2 or 3 miles of the journey before I also loose the edge signal. Once arrived I have nothing unless I attach to a yagi beam on the roof or walk up into the high hills.

I guess someone from work bothering me will be one less thing to worry about!

It is weird at home really, the 3G signal is usable during the day but soon after sunset, 3G signal drops like a rock until gone and then Edge takes over most evenings.
If they remove the Edge service without improving the 3G coverage here, I'll be SOL.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: Phone switches to Edge when home

Are you implying sun improves your reception on HSPA? Just like AM radio improves after sunset? Doesn't make sense to me (while for AM radio its true).
kruser
Premium Member
join:2002-06-01
Eastern MO

kruser

Premium Member

Re: Phone switches to Edge when home

said by chgo_man99:

Are you implying sun improves your reception on HSPA? Just like AM radio improves after sunset? Doesn't make sense to me (while for AM radio its true).

Yep, at first I thought they were doing nightly maintenance but I know they do not do that every night!
The 3G signal really does go away about an hour after sunset. You can watch the bars slowly drop on the phone while it sits in its cradle charging. I'll start with full bars and by midnight, I have no signal at all unless the phone has switched to edge. Sometimes it is still hearing enough signal so it does not switch. I cannot make calls during those times until I force a switch to edge.
When I do switch to edge, I get full bars no problem. In fact I'll often just leave it on edge as it works so well.

edit: I can't really say the sun improves the HSPA signal during the day but I do think something at night degrades that signal.
We get really high humidity levels here after sunset. Maybe the high humidity attenuates the signal?

Woody14619
@twtelecom.net

Woody14619

Anon

All this talk of swapping spectrum

What everyone here fails to notice is that you can't just RANDOMLY start swapping what signals are in what ranges and expect hardware to just cope with it. Existing 3G phones DO NOT LOOK in the 2G band for data, nor will they ever be able to. The chipsets used are setup to access certain frequency ranges, which can be slightly altered or limited by the SIM. They can't access any band they choose.

In order to access different areas of spectrum you need separate antennae and often separate chipsets. This is why current 3G devices suck battery, they have TWO radios going: One for standard GSM calling and one for data. This is also why you can't just randomly reprogram an AT&T/US device to get 3G on T-Mobile or other European frequency bands, even if it's unlocked.

All this does to *existing* users is drops 2G usability to a 5th of their old coverage, since most 3G devices on the market can't actually cross over coverage into the old 2G spectrum. Existing users won't see a speed boost at all, only ones updating their hardware to a device that can switch over. Only new devices with more expensive hardware will be able to access the new areas in the proper format. And unless they also incorporate 2G hardware in (so now we're talking lots of radios) those won't be able to talk to older 2G towers if they leave their wonderful data-rich city.

This is effectively a way for them to cause hardware churn, generating profits all the while. Those on older devices will see a slowdown and will be told to upgrade. Those with new devices will see new areas exclusively for a short time and get an initial burst that will quickly slow as everyone upgrades. Those moving from one area to another will now need to change hardware, either paying out of pocket (pre-pay) or re-upping for additional contract time.

It all sucks...

•••••••

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Confused?

GSM for calls and data are separate.
Phones do not use GPRS, EDGE(3G, but they call 2G), HSPDA(3G) for calls.
So ATT shutting off EDGE for data should not affect anyone trying to make a call.

JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL

JimThePCGuy

MVM

I only have Edge now, what am I suppose to do?

ATT hasn't upgraded my vacation location to 3G (much less 4G) it only has Edge. So what am I to do? Go back to 1x ? Makes that iPad a little sluggish.

••••
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